February 10, 201213 yr Fools rush in: Cheering on Duke Energy 02/10/12 at 11:58am •Written by Letters Editor •0Comments • [no link provided]
February 10, 201213 yr Can we start a trend of Streetcar photos near utilities with the hash tag #Not8Feet
February 10, 201213 yr Barry Horstman saying there will be no public speaking. I'm sure Tom Luken is devastated
February 10, 201213 yr The streetcar's official groundbreaking will be at 1 PM on February 17th, in front of Memorial Hall. Ray LaHood will be there, and so should you. ETA: Brilliant move by Mallory for announcing the groundbreaking during Winburn's kangaroo hearing, all but guaranteeing that will be the biggest story to come out of the hearing in the media. Winburn gets upstaged yet again. Maybe the next time Smitherman or Winburn convene a sham hearing, Mallory will announce that full funding for the Uptown segment has been restored.
February 10, 201213 yr rhetorical question #137 Why doesn't Smitherman direct his "accounting" questions at Duke? Is he representing Cincinnati or Duke & Anderson Twp?
February 10, 201213 yr The streetcar's official groundbreaking will be at 1 PM on February 17th, in front of Memorial Hall. Ray LaHood will be there, and so should you. ETA: Brilliant move by Mallory for announcing the groundbreaking during Winburn's kangaroo hearing, all but guaranteeing that will be the biggest story to come out of the hearing in the media. Winburn gets upstaged yet again. Maybe the next time Smitherman or Winburn convene a sham hearing, Mallory will announce that full funding for the Uptown segment has been restored. Great news! I'll certainly be there. Any idea where?
February 10, 201213 yr ETA: Brilliant move by Mallory for announcing the groundbreaking during Winburn's kangaroo hearing, all but guaranteeing that will be the biggest story to come out of the hearing in the media. Knowing the local media, you never know.
February 10, 201213 yr ^ Um, in front of Memorial Hall. Whoops ... totally didn't see that in your post. Guess I was too excited! :clap:
February 10, 201213 yr Who took the picture above? Ive sent it to a couple of reporters. They may need to credit it to someone.
February 10, 201213 yr Like the picture above shows, Portland's utilities are not 8 feet. I was just there 3 weeks ago and I can confirm that. Maybe Duke should focus on other stuff...like why I pay higher rates now and my neighborhood has brownouts consistently throughout the year. Its always nice to come home from work and see that the power has been out for several hours when its 95 degrees out. :shoot: #bittercustomer Is the 17th a Friday or Saturday...because I will be there if so.
February 10, 201213 yr It's a Friday. I will try to be there. Thanks for the twitter updates from the meeting, all.
February 10, 201213 yr Duke brought some boards to the meeting, apparently showing streetcar construction. The sideshow meeting today was spun in favor of the project in 2 ways, 1 was that the Mayor showed he is taking control of the situation to resolve the impasse and 2 is the groundbreaking. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 10, 201213 yr Who took the picture above? Ive sent it to a couple of reporters. They may need to credit it to someone. Great move John!!! I sent it to some people as well. Congrats guys!
February 10, 201213 yr "You ain't got no problem, Cincinnati. I'm on the motherf*cker. Go back in there, chill them naysayers out and wait for Ray LaHood, who should be coming directly."
February 10, 201213 yr Two hours without juvenile anti-streetcar tweet from COAST. I hope Chris Smitherman's Anderson Township Constituents are ok
February 10, 201213 yr Masterful move by Mayor Mallory...great news! Let's hope he can talk some sense into Duke's execs.
February 10, 201213 yr Interesting comments coming in. "Tim Kinney · Cincinnati, Ohio What does it take to impeach a mayor that is not in step with or totally ignoring the citizens that he is supposed to be representing in good faith and honesty"
February 10, 201213 yr XUMelanie, myself and our little one will be there at the groundbreaking. I randomly took off work to relax and now I've got something to do :) . "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 10, 201213 yr "You ain't got no problem, Cincinnati. I'm on the motherf*cker. Go back in there, chill them naysayers out and wait for Ray LaHood, who should be coming directly." This is the funniest thing I've read on here yet!!! LOL!!!
February 10, 201213 yr Who took the picture above? Ive sent it to a couple of reporters. They may need to credit it to someone. the pictures I posted were found doing am image search for "Portland streetcar tracks" in Google. The original is about twice the resolution I posted. Great for print. Honestly, as a kid who hung out on train tracks & hopped the slower ones, being close to rail cars is pretty daggone safe.
February 10, 201213 yr ^ Is this where it came from? http://www.metro-magazine.com/Article/Story/2011/08/Construction-Firm-Building-Americas-Transit-Future.aspx “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 10, 201213 yr Another quality poll from the Enquirer. I'll bet Furniture Fair loves all the exposure. :? What does streetcar groundbreaking mean? Your thoughts: Will the streetcar line actually be built? Yes No "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 10, 201213 yr Egads. Its like those text polls on the local newscasts. Does the moon being out mean that night is actually happening? Yes No :-P
February 10, 201213 yr Spokeswoman for Duke is giving interview after interview saying she will not budge on 8 feet for safety reasons... Hopefully the picture John has sent everywhere gets through to actual articles so they can call BS on her claim that 'its standard'.
February 10, 201213 yr Spokeswoman for Duke is giving interview after interview saying she will not budge on 8 feet for safety reasons... Hopefully the picture John and I have sent everywhere gets through to actual articles so they can call BS on her claim that 'its standard'. Seems all 8 of her feet are in her mouth. I've seen Duke working all over the CBD including right in front of my home and I don't know if there's ever as much as 8 feet between workmen who are actually in the street and the constant stream of cars that pass them in the very next lane.
February 10, 201213 yr After looking at the pic again I have to wonder if the disagreement is based on how they are measuring clearances. Is the critical measurement centerline of the tracks to center of the manhole or the distance between the edges?
February 10, 201213 yr Is it finally happening?!?! :-D http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120210/NEWS/302100179/Mallory-announces-streetcar-groundbreaking?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
February 10, 201213 yr Here's something I found on line: "RULES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF UNDERGROUND ELECTRIC SUPPLY AND COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS Prescribed by the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA GENERAL ORDER No. 128 January 2006" "32.8 Location Manhole, handhole and subsurface equipment enclosure, locations shall be such that the opening will provide safe access and, where practicable, shall be so located that future maintenance work will cause minimum interference with the normal flow of vehicular traffic. In no case may the nearest edge of the opening at the surface be less than 3 feet from any rail of any railroad or streetcar track. (Also see Rule 31.5-D, Appendix B, Figure 9, and Appendix C, Figure 2.) :clap:
February 10, 201213 yr BRAVO! I've been working in Louisville all day, but followed the live tweeting of the Slitherman/Windbag dog & pony show. Looks like their little stunt backfired oin them, didn't it?? :shoot:
February 10, 201213 yr ^Thanks for taking the time to look that up. Just doing some math here, the California rule requires 3 feet of clearance from edge of rail to edge of opening. Standard gage is 4'-8 1/2", equivalent to 4.71 feet. Half of that is 2.35 feet. (Historic Cincinnati Streetcars were 5'-2" gage, as I recall.) The rail outside of the gage has some width, say 2 inches. That is 0.17 feet. A typical manhole opening is 24 inches in diameter, or 2.0 feet. Half of that is 1.0 feet. Of course, there are lots of different dimensions for manholes. Using these numbers, 3 feet of clearance translates to about 6.52 feet from centerline of track to center of manhole. 6.52 feet is a little less than 8 feet; rounding up to the next even number yields 8 feet. Lots of construction materials, such as lumber, come in 8 feet lengths, so it is a familiar measurement. I guess the point of all of this is that it's very important to define the way that measurements are taken. "8 feet from the track" is ambiguous. 8 feet center to center is approximately equivalent to 3 feet edge to edge. Dont forget that the manhole cover itself may be only a small part of the total manhole width, and the gage is only part of the track width including the footing. Using generous dimensions, 3 feet of clearance could mean as much as 9 feet center to center. I'm just amazed though that these technical details have made it into the political arena.
February 10, 201213 yr What would be the point that when the city manager said they agreed that they would work during the 6 hour down time to the 18 hour uptime of the streetcar.
February 10, 201213 yr ^ Duke is insisting on eight feet from the operating envelope of the streetcar. That's probably twelve feet from centerline.
February 11, 201213 yr Here's an idea. When daytime maintenance is underway, the streetcar must come to a complete stop and sound its horn. And only begin to move when it gets the OK from the construction crew. Seeing how this would happen only every 10-20 minutes, I think it can be managed. Did anyone see cars, buses and trucks stopping, sounding their horns and then continuing only when the Duke crew working at Fifth and Vine today gave them the OK? Which crew, by the way, was nowhere near eight feet from traffic.
February 11, 201213 yr Sheree Paollelo from Channel 5 said that following(I'm not kidding): "Well the streetcar project is now set for groundbreaking next friday. Wow This project is moving extremely fast isn't it?"
February 11, 201213 yr ^ The story from Local 12 says "Duke Energy also wants the city to promise to have an eight foot separation between the streetcar and the utility lines." As reported here, the measurement is not well defined. The operating envelope is even trickier, since it varies from the centerline around a curve, and the curves are to be placed in intersections where utilities are most congested.
February 11, 201213 yr What does Ohio code say? Good question...I've been doing searches on terms like "manhole proximity to streetcar" and the CA thing is the only thing that came up...no hits on anything specific to OH...at least not yet. Anyway, I have to believe that if there is a municipal ordinance or state code on the location of manhole covers relative to tracks...well, I assume the City engineering department is well aware of it. And that may well be the source from where the city derived their more reasonable position. In a normal representative government this would be worked out in civil conversation by a group of traffic engineers...debating 3' vs 8' in public is like having a debate about how many seconds of green time to give to Vine St. vs McMillan on a traffic signal. And I have a strong feeling it's the anti-streetcar gang that brought us to this point!
February 11, 201213 yr I've received photos taken today in Portland of manholes immediately adjacent to the trackway, even between the rails. Anyone know someone in Tacoma, Seattle or Washington D.C. who can take similar pics?
February 11, 201213 yr I love how there is all this (supposed) angst over working too close to a vehicle that is tied to a fucking steel rail and operated by a trained driver, while Duke hangs people in plastic buckets over automobiles driven by 16-year-olds every day. When you really step back and look at this objectively, it's absolutely hilarious.
February 11, 201213 yr Sheree Paollelo from Channel 5 said that following(I'm not kidding): "Well the streetcar project is now set for groundbreaking next friday. Wow This project is moving extremely fast isn't it?" Aaaand I thought it couldn't get any more stupid. I was wrong.
February 11, 201213 yr ^^I watched a person's mirror run into a Duke worker along McMillan during some construction not all that long ago. He was walking to the door of his truck and only had about a foot or so before the edge of the open lane. His safety clearly wasn't a concern of theirs. Unfortunately the person didn't stop but he seemed to be in pain. It hit his side and threw him into his truck. Needless to say he wasn't happy.
February 11, 201213 yr I love how there is all this (supposed) angst over working too close to a vehicle that is tied to a f$&king steel rail and operated by a trained driver, while Duke hangs people in plastic buckets over automobiles driven by 16-year-olds every day. When you really step back and look at this objectively, it's absolutely hilarious. Haha. That is a great point. I listened to the Duke lady spokeswoman give those interviews and its clear she has been rehearsing what to say and how to say it. The evidence is starting to pile up against Duke's blatant PR misrepresentation. They are going to look silly when this 'argument' is done with
February 11, 201213 yr The project is moving extremely fast? Hmmmm... Just for comparison, planning for the BART system in San Fran. started in 1960; first revenue passenger transported in 1972. Washington DC metro planning started--1960; first revenue passenger transported...1976. Twelve and sixteen years respectively, for these huge, complicated engineering projects. And how long have we been at this...? Sheree Paollelo from Channel 5 said that following(I'm not kidding): "Well the streetcar project is now set for groundbreaking next friday. Wow This project is moving extremely fast isn't it?"
February 11, 201213 yr The project is moving extremely fast? Hmmmm... Just for comparison, planning for the BART system in San Fran. started in 1960; first revenue passenger transported in 1972. Washington DC metro planning started--1960; first revenue passenger transported...1976. Twelve and sixteen years respectively, for these huge, complicated engineering projects. And how long have we been at this...? Sheree Paollelo from Channel 5 said that following(I'm not kidding): "Well the streetcar project is now set for groundbreaking next friday. Wow This project is moving extremely fast isn't it?" What we were trying to get at was that this project has been lightning rod in the news for the last 3 years nonstop and presented much earlier than that. Its not like It was just proposed and then they decided to start construction out of the blue in a weeks span like Sheree made it seem like
February 11, 201213 yr Here's an idea. When daytime maintenance is underway, the streetcar must come to a complete stop and sound its horn. And only begin to move when it gets the OK from the construction crew. Seeing how this would happen only every 10-20 minutes, I think it can be managed. That's pretty much standard procedure on the New York City subway and other heavy rail systems when trains pass through work zones.
February 11, 201213 yr I totally understand...and it's the anti-streetcar crowd that politicized this thing to satisfy their own agenda.
Create an account or sign in to comment