One lesson from Churchill's England is that they stood in there and took the incessant beatings from the radical right until the axis overplayed its hand too many times, causing two huge allies to enter the fray that ultimately overwhelmed the axis.

 

And can you believe I just summarized all of World War II in one sentence! :)

According to legend, former Cincinnati Mayor Jerry Springer was born in a London subway station during the blitz. 

 

As of the uptown connection, my sources tell me they are planning to build the turnouts from Race St. onto Elder St. for the Vine St. climb.  I don't think this is a good idea since if the connection is delayed by 5 or more years, the plan will almost certainly change and won't be built the same way.  In city after city the majority of provisions made for future rail phases go unused and become fodder for opponents.  The most notorious is the Seattle bus tunnel, where they laid tracks for light rail back when it was built in the late 80s, but had to rip that track up when the light rail line was finally built in order to lower the tunnel floor by 2 inches. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Seattle_Transit_Tunnel

How likely is it to change though?  Granted I think the way the uptown route is connected to the OTR loop is mind-bogglingly stupid, but there are geometric considerations that force it to go a certain way.  I think a more risky proposition would be having to interrupt service to tear up relatively new track to install the turnouts.  Granted if properly planned it can be done over a weekend, but it still seems like doing it now would make selling the extension that much easier. 

The city's confirmation of ownership of our streets makes street-running LRT easier going forward and incents suburban communities to pass similar ordinances. Assuming the city prevails in court with Duke, if it comes to that, removes the cost of utility moves from future LRT planning.

 

Has anyone seen the text of Duke's application to PUCO to recover the cost of the the proposed Duke utility relocations by charging higher rates to Cincinnati?

 

According to Smitherman, the application says "All future mass-transit systems, including streetcars." I'll have to take Smitherman's word for it unless I see otherwise.

 

I don't like the phrase "removing the cost of utility moves from future LRT planning." If a court does, in fact, side with the city, the cost is not removed, but shifted to someone else, whether it be city ratepayers, the City of Cincinnati municipality, all Duke ratepayers, Duke shareholders, or what have you.

 

I don't think the Duke issue is going to go away.

 

 

According to Smitherman, the application says "All future mass-transit systems, including streetcars." I'll have to take Smitherman's word for it unless I see otherwise.

 

Why would you take Smitherman's word for anything?? His word + two bits is worth 25 cents.

 

I don't think the Duke issue is going to go away.

 

 

So when I'm lying on my death bed in 40 years or so, this is still going to be an issue for the Cincinnati streetcar?

Lol 8th. Smitherman is your source? You trust his word?

 

What's next?  registering for acting classes taught bt Steven seagall

 

 

>I don't think the Duke issue is going to go away.

 

Well certainly your brining it up over and over isn't.

 

From Sunday's editorial page in the Enquirer:

 

 

Streetcar: stop

A creative idea ran into financial reality; let's face the facts

 

It’s time to pull the plug on the streetcar.

 

Cincinnati’s plan to connect the riverfront, Downtown and Over-the-Rhine with a clean, sleek rail line started out as an innovative, even cool, idea. We have liked the concept.

 

But it’s become clear there’s no sound plan to finance it.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120930/EDIT01/309300054/Streetcar-stop

This is a staff editorial? Unreal.

 

This reeks of an order from on high: more the expression of a business strategy than an opinion. If the streetcar controversy dies, what else will keep people reading the rag?

 

It even ends by saying, until we have a "conservative plan," "we need to get off this train to nowhere." (Emphasis added.)

It's basically a re-run of Tuesday's editorial. 

A "train to nowhere?" The Enquirer's utter contempt for the city has never been more obvious.

As of Monday the Enquirer gets locked behind its new paywall, the print subscription rates go through the roof, and the entire boondoggle will hopefully die a speedy death. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

BOYCOTT THE ENQUIRER

{quote]Why would you take Smitherman's word for anything?{/quote]

 

Because I don't know where to find Duke's application to PUCO. I was hoping someone could confirm or disprove it. The point is that Duke's application supposedly applies to all future mass transit and not just the current streetcar project, so they definitely have it mind to set a precedent.

 

 

From Sunday's editorial page in the Enquirer:

Streetcar: stop

But it’s become clear there’s no sound plan to finance it.

Going down ugly.

So does the fishwarp have sound plan?

 

FTW!

 

derp.com

Stealing that... hilarious.

^^ Absolutely legendary!

I LOVE the fact that the Enquirer is getting absolutely SLAMMED in the comments section. Apparently none of the anti-streetcar crowd bothers to comment on the Enquirer's "coverage" of the project anymore.

I LOVE the fact that the Enquirer is getting absolutely SLAMMED in the comments section. Apparently none of the anti-streetcar crowd bothers to comment on the Enquirer's "coverage" of the project anymore.

 

COAST didn't repost the article until this afternoon/evening.  This leads me to believe that Mark Miller saw this too late and couldn't log into all his facebook screen names in time to 'take over' the comment section.  He's slacking as of late. 

 

Steve Dieters is doing God knows what. 

 

That's about 90% of the anti city comments.

The Enquirer should take a field trip to Norfolk and see what TIDE has done for their city.

 

The Enquirer should take a field trip to Norfolk and see what TIDE has done for their city.

 

Serious questions: Do you think the Enquirer cares? Do you think they want their coverage to be about the project's actual merits?

 

I really think they just see it as something that fires people up and gets readers and commenters. In other words, it gets clicks. (I don't think it is as useful to them in the print copy, since no one will buy the paper just for streetcar coverage. But they certainly will visit the website for it. Many people will repeatedly, for each separate article.)

 

If the coverage is crap and non-factual, then it will get more clicks, not less, because people will get fired-up and feel more motivated to comment.

 

I stopped commenting on there when they switched to FB comments. Seems like a lot of people did. I don't read comments as much, either, especially on streetcar articles. My hope is they pick up on the comments against the Brent Spends Bridge and realize that is another pot they can stir. If they are going to be so cynical, they might as well use the power against the status quo.

 

I use B$B just as an example. I think you are a proponent of the "replacement", but you can at least see the value in scrutinizing it and other auto-oriented projects with an eye towards ROI and regional/local land use implications.

 

BTW, I have missed seeing you regularly posting.

Steve Dieters is doing God knows what.

I noticed he wrote a LTE but didn't comment on it. Ot, at least, he wasn't the first to comment on it.

Natininja might be on to something, tho. If a lot of people started posting radical comments on some subject maybe the Fishwarp would take the bait & obsess on something like Mt Adams sidewalks or whatever.

The Enquirer should take a field trip to Norfolk and see what TIDE has done for their city.

 

Serious questions: Do you think the Enquirer cares? Do you think they want their coverage to be about the project's actual merits?

 

I really think they just see it as something that fires people up and gets readers and commenters. In other words, it gets clicks. (I don't think it is as useful to them in the print copy, since no one will buy the paper just for streetcar coverage. But they certainly will visit the website for it. Many people will repeatedly, for each separate article.)

 

If the coverage is crap and non-factual, then it will get more clicks, not less, because people will get fired-up and feel more motivated to comment.

 

I stopped commenting on there when they switched to FB comments. Seems like a lot of people did. I don't read comments as much, either, especially on streetcar articles. My hope is they pick up on the comments against the Brent Spends Bridge and realize that is another pot they can stir. If they are going to be so cynical, they might as well use the power against the status quo.

 

I use B$B just as an example. I think you are a proponent of the "replacement", but you can at least see the value in scrutinizing it and other auto-oriented projects with an eye towards ROI and regional/local land use implications.

 

BTW, I have missed seeing you regularly posting.

 

Oh, no it was meant more internally. But TIDE had a lot of issues with funding and opposition, but it's hard to correlate the new development along the line with the light rail, given that much of it was either planned or proposed long before the line was even proposed. Their ~7 mile line costs about $6 million to operate annually. Shelters are nice and simple, with some colonial fashion. For a Sunday, traffic on the line was fairly light with 15 minute intervals.

 

With Buchanan serving on 3CDC's board, you would think that she would at least be more knowledgeable about the streetcar. And while I can't dismiss all of the points in the editorial, to outright say pull the plug or indefinitely hold on the project is pattering nonsense. To her credit - and that of Baverman and others, there is some good, ongoing press about downtown and Over-the-Rhine that I felt was neglected for years.

 

And thanks - been on the road a lot and about to be MIA for several weeks again.

Sadly, Laura Baverman's last day at the Enquirer was Friday. She's getting married this week and moving to North Carolina.

 

 

Sadly, Laura Baverman's last day at the Enquirer was Friday. She's getting married this week and moving to North Carolina.

 

Too bad she's not taking Jane Prendergast with her. Prendergast is COAST & Finney's biggest shill & sycophant at the Enquirer.

Ken & Jane should hook up.

Sadly, Laura Baverman's last day at the Enquirer was Friday. She's getting married this week and moving to North Carolina.

 

Too bad she's not taking Jane Prendergast with her. Prendergast is COAST & Finney's biggest shill & sycophant at the Enquirer.

 

What about Barry "the toupee" Horstman?

How many people actually still work at the Enquirer? By my count it's pretty much down to Carolyn Washburn, Jane Prendergast, Barry Horstsman, and the security guard in the lobby.

The Enquirer published an editorial by Mayor Mallory tonight, and the Mayor really spanks that tired rag's ass:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121002/EDIT02/310020014/Streetcar-isn-t-an-either-proposition

 

Streetcar isn't an either/or proposition

 

"I appreciate The Cincinnati Enquirer once again expressing its opposition to the streetcar (“Streetcar: Stop,” Sept. 30). I had hoped The Enquirer was serious last year when it said it was time to move on and instead focus on making sure the streetcar was done right. Wishful thinking.

 

The good news is The Enquirer doesn’t decide what happens in Cincinnati. Voters do that. Voters have elected me mayor twice now. I have been very clear about my vision to grow and revitalize our city. Part of that vision is the proven strategy of investing in public transportation to fuel job creation and repopulate our core. The streetcar is an important part of that strategy. Voters also elected a supermajority of City Council who shared a similar vision and who were clear about their support for the streetcar. Voters have twice been given the option to stop building the streetcar, and twice they have instead said “move forward. And therefore, with the support of citizens, we are going to build a streetcar in Cincinnati"

 

{snip}

 

"Great cities take strides to make themselves even greater. We have made tremendous strides in Cincinnati and we have gotten where we are because visionary citizens have joined me in making this city great. I am asking the citizens of Cincinnati to continue to stand with me and City Council, and we will continue to revitalize our neighborhoods, and we will keep transforming the riverfront, the Banks, Over-the-Rhine and Downtown.

 

And we will build the streetcar."

 

Comments sh*tstorm in 3,2,1....{Miller, Finney Capell & Co. put their fake facebook accounts into overdrive}....

^ I wonder why they chose a picture of Mallory unveiling a temporary streetcar stop rather than the groundbreaking...

^and, as of right now at least, it's not to be found anywhere on the front page of Cincinnati.com.

I don't see it anywhere on cincinnati.com.  Does anyone have a link?

Oops, forgot the link:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121002/EDIT02/310020014/Streetcar-isn-t-an-either-proposition

Joe Lipperti is wound up today  in the comment section lol

 

In non shocking news, Smitherman was on cunningham yesterday and finney is on there today.  This is an all out last ditch desperation assault from 700wlw

Joe Lipperti is wound up today  in the comment section lol

 

In non shocking news, Smitherman was on cunningham yesterday and finney is on there today.  This is an all out last ditch desperation assault from 700wlw

 

Smitherman was sitting in a chair outside the Ham Co Board of Elections building on Broadway - two blocks from the streetcar route, ironically - yesterday shouting into his cell phone about taxes. It was in the early afternoon so I can only assume he was talking to Cunningham. Meanwhile, at the same time, a bunch of radios around the Tri-state were no doubt switching from WLW to anything else.

 

Even if I were a streetcar opponent, I wouldn't be able to listen to that incessant daily ranting from them anymore. I'm surprised that Bill Cunningham, who obviously knows what makes for successful radio, would keep putting these fools on. It's beyond dull.

The Enquirer should take a field trip to Norfolk and see what TIDE has done for their city.

 

Serious questions: Do you think the Enquirer cares? Do you think they want their coverage to be about the project's actual merits?

 

I really think they just see it as something that fires people up and gets readers and commenters. In other words, it gets clicks. (I don't think it is as useful to them in the print copy, since no one will buy the paper just for streetcar coverage. But they certainly will visit the website for it. Many people will repeatedly, for each separate article.)

 

If the coverage is crap and non-factual, then it will get more clicks, not less, because people will get fired-up and feel more motivated to comment.

 

I stopped commenting on there when they switched to FB comments. Seems like a lot of people did. I don't read comments as much, either, especially on streetcar articles. My hope is they pick up on the comments against the Brent Spends Bridge and realize that is another pot they can stir. If they are going to be so cynical, they might as well use the power against the status quo.

 

I use B$B just as an example. I think you are a proponent of the "replacement", but you can at least see the value in scrutinizing it and other auto-oriented projects with an eye towards ROI and regional/local land use implications.

 

BTW, I have missed seeing you regularly posting.

 

BINGO! That is the nature of what passes for "journalism" today. Too often, it no longer exists to inform but to entertain, and even to enrage. Then the media steps back and says "we're not responsible" for the flames of ingorance-based hate they fan.

 

Sadly, Laura Baverman's last day at the Enquirer was Friday. She's getting married this week and moving to North Carolina.

 

Too bad she's not taking Jane Prendergast with her. Prendergast is COAST & Finney's biggest shill & sycophant at the Enquirer.

 

She must be from "that" side of the family....  :weird:

It doesn't seem like the "City vs. Suburbs" rhetoric is very useful when responding to anti-streetcar comments. Discussion about the similarities in spending on the streetcar vs. I-275, the I-75 widening, and the Brent Spence Bridge is very effective, and does not need to include attacks on one's lifestyle choices. The anti-streetcar people would love nothing more than to mischaracterize  streetcar supporters as hipster-yuppie-hippy types that exhibit the same amount of hostility towards suburbanites as the suburbanites exhibit towards OTR hipsters. I think the streetcar argument is strong enough in favor of the project, and shifting the discussion from the actual project to a shouting match between individuals with contrasting lifestyles is ineffective.

 

I cannot leave comments on the Enquirer, but I felt like venting my frustration on the matter somewhere. I realize UO commenters are not the same individuals that comment on the Enquirer.

 

^ Totally agree.  Streetcar supporters should stick to facts and ignore the city vs. suburbs attacks.  Some people live in different places for whatever reason.  Most people probably don't even know that we are widening 7 miles of I-75 for about $400 million

Cincinnati Blog nails it:

 

http://cincinnati.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-enquirer-does-not-get-point-of.html

 

^Amen.

Nice piece. But two problems: the column rips conservative Republicans while a Romney ad appears next it! I know why that happens, but it doesn't make it any less strange.

 

And the second problem, please don't channel Alicia Bridges. I still hate that song 30+ years later. Truly one of the nastiest uses of a nasal voice in disco history.

Blog: I think the point could have been made without potentially alienating the suburban crowd with insults.  There are plenty of suburbanites that fancy themselves urbanists, enjoy the city quite a bit, vocally support the project and realize the critical importance of a vital core.

 

Alicia Bridges?  I remember

http://thewalkinggreen.blogspot.com/2012/10/urbanism-sub-urbanism-and-why-im-tiring.html?showComment=1349285128271#c4776200512012105003

 

A conservative living in OTR's opinion

http://thewalkinggreen.blogspot.com/2012/10/urbanism-sub-urbanism-and-why-im-tiring.html?showComment=1349285128271#c4776200512012105003

 

A conservative living in OTR's opinion

 

Wow! Share it! Like this.... :)

 

The Walking Green

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 2, 2012

Urbanism, Sub-urbanism, and why I’m tiring of the Streetcar debate.

 

The problem is this: the majority of those in opposition to the streetcar have a fundamentally different view of the urban environment, its infrastructure, and lifestyle, than do its supporters.

 

They see the city as a holding place for poor, homeless drunks and a recreational facility for wealthy yuppies. They do not believe that normal people actually live here. They do not believe that people with their level of wealth or education would choose to live here.

 

They do not understand the design of cities and do not share the vision of car-lite, rail-strong city. They do not care about the thousands of Cincinnati residents whose lives would someday benefit from affordable, convenient public transportation. (How other people find their way to home and work does not worry them, so long as those people don’t end up living in their neighborhoods.)

 

READ MORE AT:

http://thewalkinggreen.blogspot.com/2012/10/urbanism-sub-urbanism-and-why-im-tiring.html?showComment=1349285128271#c4776200512012105003

They do not understand...They do not care...

 

Shocking

C0AST's next propaganda video hit YouToob today.

 

 

 

 

The end of NAACP opposition to the streetcar might be near:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121003/NEWS01/310030127?nclick_check=1