The grants are issued on a per-project basis, not to a city. I think the media is intentionally obscuring the details. Why don't they actually look into it and report how this works, instead of acting like there's no legal procedure involved and it's just a matter of an Obama administration official being like "Yup, ok, we like what you do with your eyebrows. Do what you want with the money."

That's precisely what I wanted to know, thanks KJP and John.

 

"$41 million of the $45 million in Federal funds for the Cincinnati Streetcar will just go to another city if it's not used here in Cincinnati."

 

If you're writing to new members of council, that makes a good opening and closing.

I wrote this to mayor Cranley...

 

Mayor Cranley -

 

I sincerely wish you the best as you take the reigns as leader of our fair city.  Cincinnati is literally in the midst of a once-in-a-generation renaissance.  It's unprecedented how much thIS city has changed and evolved in every way imaginable over the past decade. 

 

Although development and economic growth within our city have taken the limelight over the last several years as they should, the biggest shift that has taken place right before our eyes is the spirit that has awoken from this city.  The spirit of community, pride and progress that was somehow hidden for so long by negative press and misguided politics has been replaced by a new found passion for our home.

 

While the streetcar certainly isn't ultimately responsible for the newfound success, it's representative what lies ahead.  A city that is willing to invest in change, is a city that for the first time in a long time has an advantage over it's peers.  An advantage that will allow us to recruit conventions that overlooked us by allowing their guests to stay at a hotel, walk outside, hop on a streetcar and head to the Banks and then a late night bite in OTR.  An advantage for our Reds and Bengals fans to see the north side of town by parking at riverfront garage, going to a game and gathering at a streetcar stop to head Neon's.

 

The streetcar is not indicative of where we are, it's where were going.  We're riding this newfound spirit and taking advantage of the opportunities in front of us. We have a chance to lay the tracks for a foundation of innovation, investment and improvements that will reach well beyond the inner city rails and into the neighborhoods and suburbs for generations to come.

 

I sincerely thank you for your consideration and wish you the best success.

"Yup, ok, we like what you do with your eyebrows. Do what you want with the money."

 

Hahaha!!!

Cranley was talking about this on WVXU today. I only got to hear a few minutes of the interview:

 

http://wvxu.org/post/mayor-elect-talks-streetcar-other-priorities

The "state" money cut by Kasich in 2011 was in fact federal money that the states got to allocate as they wished. 

 

Right Jake. I'm trying to understand the federal money left in the project. Cranley seems to think you just ask and the money moves wherever you like. I'm hoping we don't live in that world.

 

Roughly:

$25MM from FTA Urban Circulator grant, as mentioned above.

$4 MM from FTA passthrough to OKI CMAQ

$16MM from TIGER3 from USDOT

 

My very limited understanding suggests only that $16 mil could be easily reassigned. If that's the case, the city is getting a raw deal in any cancellation.

 

The only money that can be reassigned is the CMAQ. Tiger and Urban Circulator Grants are subject to intense competition and environmental analysis. The Hop-On people would have to issue an RFP for consultants under a Federally-approved procurement. The environmental analysis would not be transferrable even it it used the identical route. And if they received Federal funds, they would have to have union drivers from Local 12 of the ATU. Their proposed costs would be much, much higher than what they have been talking about.

 

All together now: "$41 million of the $45 million in Federal funds for the Cincinnati Streetcar will just go to another city if it's not used here in Cincinnati."

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification and input on this. 

 

So if $41 million of the $45 million cannot be re-assigned, then what's the purpose of inviting Cranley to DC for discussion?  Any insight that you've heard regarding this that you could share?

 

As I read those headlines/articles, it sounds like they may be discussing additional money for the streetcar from the feds--money that was rejected by Kasich previously.  (I could just be reading this wrong.) 

Save the Streetcar page on Facebook

 

https://www.facebook.com/SaveStreetcar

They only way out of the contracts is bankruptcy.  That is the only court entity that would get the city out of the contracts.  Is he willing to go to that extreme to kill the project? Time will tell. 

I am working on my own letter to Cranley and other council members detailing my personal investment on a rehab on the line on Elm street where rails are currently being installed, and how this was predicated on the city's commitment (not Mallory's, not Qualls', but the cities commitment to build the line) and reversing course makes every city decision unreliable and will stunt future investment.

 

Another thing to be communicated is that with each dollar of sunk cost, the ROI increases for the project and should make the decision to continue construction even more obviously: If 50% of the funds are lost when you cancel, then the decision to spend the remaining 50% comes with double to ROI.

 

Is there a flat dollar amount of benefit in the studies we can communicate? I think that would be more effective than saying 3 to 1 return on investment. Those numbers get completely covered up when people are presented with $133MILLION in cost. We need to us big numbers in this debate!

 

 

I am working on my own letter to Cranley and other council members detailing my personal investment on a rehab on the line on Elm street where rails are currently being installed, and how this was predicated on the city's commitment (not Mallory's, not Qualls', but the cities commitment to build the line) and reversing course makes every city decision unreliable and will stunt future investment.

 

Another thing to be communicated is that with each dollar of sunk cost, the ROI increases for the project and should make the decision to continue construction even more obviously: If 50% of the funds are lost when you cancel, then the decision to spend the remaining 50% comes with double to ROI.

 

Is there a flat dollar amount of benefit in the studies we can communicate? I think that would be more effective than saying 3 to 1 return on investment. Those numbers get completely covered up when people are presented with $133MILLION in cost. We need to us big numbers in this debate!

 

The HDR study found that the streetcar has a net present benefit of $287 million. That figure is calculated based on the new development that it would create, minus the costs to build and operate it.

I am working on my own letter to Cranley and other council members detailing my personal investment on a rehab on the line on Elm street where rails are currently being installed, and how this was predicated on the city's commitment (not Mallory's, not Qualls', but the cities commitment to build the line) and reversing course makes every city decision unreliable and will stunt future investment.

 

Another thing to be communicated is that with each dollar of sunk cost, the ROI increases for the project and should make the decision to continue construction even more obviously: If 50% of the funds are lost when you cancel, then the decision to spend the remaining 50% comes with double to ROI.

 

Is there a flat dollar amount of benefit in the studies we can communicate? I think that would be more effective than saying 3 to 1 return on investment. Those numbers get completely covered up when people are presented with $133MILLION in cost. We need to us big numbers in this debate!

 

Consider telling them you are considering legal action, should the project be canceled. (If in fact you will consider that.)

They only way out of the contracts is bankruptcy.  That is the only court entity that would get the city out of the contracts.  Is he willing to go to that extreme to kill the project? Time will tell. 

If his goal is to deliver the city into the hands of the GOP, fiscal emergency would do that.

It's official! Spanish railcar manufacturer files a $66 million lawsuit today for breach of contract. Cincinnati streetcar? No, but it could be next!

 

This is an AP wire story:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/train-maker-talgo-seeks-nearly-66-million-for-cancelled-wisconsin-rail-contract-231028131.html?story=Train-maker%20Talgo%20seeks%20nearly%20$66%20million%20for%20cancelled%20Wisconsin%20rail%20contract&device=mobile

It's official! Spanish railcar manufacturer files a $66 million lawsuit today for breach of contract. Cincinnati streetcar? No, but it could be next!

 

This is an AP wire story:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/train-maker-talgo-seeks-nearly-66-million-for-cancelled-wisconsin-rail-contract-231028131.html?story=Train-maker%20Talgo%20seeks%20nearly%20$66%20million%20for%20cancelled%20Wisconsin%20rail%20contract&device=mobile

 

Contractors for the streetcar project should make it very clear that this is what's in store if Cincinnati drops the project. Aside from this, Cincinnati's reputation would be harmed. Who would want to do business with a city that might change its mind with the next election?

I am working on my own letter to Cranley and other council members detailing my personal investment on a rehab on the line on Elm street where rails are currently being installed, and how this was predicated on the city's commitment (not Mallory's, not Qualls', but the cities commitment to build the line) and reversing course makes every city decision unreliable and will stunt future investment.

 

Another thing to be communicated is that with each dollar of sunk cost, the ROI increases for the project and should make the decision to continue construction even more obviously: If 50% of the funds are lost when you cancel, then the decision to spend the remaining 50% comes with double to ROI.

 

Is there a flat dollar amount of benefit in the studies we can communicate? I think that would be more effective than saying 3 to 1 return on investment. Those numbers get completely covered up when people are presented with $133MILLION in cost. We need to us big numbers in this debate!

 

Consider telling them you are considering legal action, should the project be canceled. (If in fact you will consider that.)

 

It definitely could be a consideration, although I don't know what legal grounds it would be on. They did not enter into a contract directly with me. I imagine a city would get a benefit in a legal proceeding that it has the right to start and stop its own projects, whether good or bad.

Anyone remember the election of Vincent Gray as Mayor of DC? He "cancelled" the streetcar projects before reinstating them.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/26/AR2010052605238.html

 

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/8401/breaking-gray-does-not-cut-streetcars/

I am thinking the same thing as jdm00 - it sounds like Valerie might be dangling additional monies to get the new Mayor to complete the project.  Obviously this could be wrong, but why specifically refer to the money as the 2011 funding turned down by Kasich?

 

It seems like we could be in for another referendum, but I would prefer they do not attempt to cancel the project in the first place.  With that in mind, I am also going to craft a letter.  I want to be as positive as possible, but I do want to offer a little critique on the fact that he is calling his election a referendum on the streetcar after there were actually two, official referenda.  I might even include the voter count for each election (two on the issue and one on the mayor), which I think are great numbers to put things into context (I can't remember who quoted those).

 

Anyway, I have a question - has any democrat ever refused federal dollars for a rail project, much less one that has already begun construction?

Maybe Vincent Gray (DC), but I'm not sure at all.

The "Save the Streetcar" page on Facebook is raking in the "likes" by the minute. It's been up for less than 10 hours and it's already pushing 1,500 likes. Keep it up! Drive Cranley and the teabaggers crazy with streetcar support!

I am thinking the same thing as jdm00 - it sounds like Valerie might be dangling additional monies to get the new Mayor to complete the project.  Obviously this could be wrong, but why specifically refer to the money as the 2011 funding turned down by Kasich?

 

It seems like we could be in for another referendum, but I would prefer they do not attempt to cancel the project in the first place.  With that in mind, I am also going to craft a letter.  I want to be as positive as possible, but I do want to offer a little critique on the fact that he is calling his election a referendum on the streetcar after there were actually two, official referenda.  I might even include the voter count for each election (two on the issue and one on the mayor), which I think are great numbers to put things into context (I can't remember who quoted those).

 

Anyway, I have a question - has any democrat ever refused federal dollars for a rail project, much less one that has already begun construction?

 

There were many issues at play in this election. You can't hang it all on the streetcar, which is what Cranley is trying to do.

 

The parking plan, while it may be OK at this point, was done for the wrong reason. It was arbitrary. It's been refined now, but that should have been done on the front end. That really got people stirred-up this year. Why they introduced a radically-new garbage plan the month before the election, I dunno. Our garbage wasn't picked up on time three of four Fridays in October. People came out to vote to Vote on Issue 4.

 

Plus very few Cincinnatians voted. Maybe that's some indication that people are pretty satisfied, I dunno. Didn't I read that 17% of eligibile voters elected John Cranley?

I completely agree - I specifically remember an article stating there was much more opposition to the parking plan while the streetcar was almost neutral.  It seems the current administration shot themselves in the foot a few times.

I personally think that at some point there should be public transportation referendum for added streetcar service, regional rail and Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago service, funded by dedicating income from the City-owned CNO&TP RR (leased to NS) to public transportation.

So... who is going to pay for Cranley's trip to DC? Wouldn't a phone accomplish the same task?

I might have mised this, but is there currently an email address for mayor-elect?

I am working on my own letter to Cranley and other council members detailing my personal investment on a rehab on the line on Elm street where rails are currently being installed, and how this was predicated on the city's commitment (not Mallory's, not Qualls', but the cities commitment to build the line) and reversing course makes every city decision unreliable and will stunt future investment.

 

Another thing to be communicated is that with each dollar of sunk cost, the ROI increases for the project and should make the decision to continue construction even more obviously: If 50% of the funds are lost when you cancel, then the decision to spend the remaining 50% comes with double to ROI.

 

Is there a flat dollar amount of benefit in the studies we can communicate? I think that would be more effective than saying 3 to 1 return on investment. Those numbers get completely covered up when people are presented with $133MILLION in cost. We need to us big numbers in this debate!

 

Consider telling them you are considering legal action, should the project be canceled. (If in fact you will consider that.)

 

It definitely could be a consideration, although I don't know what legal grounds it would be on. They did not enter into a contract directly with me. I imagine a city would get a benefit in a legal proceeding that it has the right to start and stop its own projects, whether good or bad.

 

I don't know man. In most of the rest of the world trains are just infrastructure and not hot-button issues. Can you imagine how it must feel to be a European train manufacturer and think you have a contract for an order from the US and then some wackadoodle politician pulls the project for no f*cking reason?

 

EDITED foul language to keep site from getting blocked in workplace servers-- KJP

Whoops! I meant to quote another post. But my point is still painfully obvious.  :(

"Yez, I zee zat even your Left politizians are againzt your zitiez. What iz zee matter with zee politizians in your country? It iz a real shame."

You know I can almost understand a Republican seeking the support of the Scorched-Earth Society (aka: Tea Partiers) to expand his political base. But a Democrat?

So... who is going to pay for Cranley's trip to DC? Wouldn't a phone accomplish the same task?

 

Perhaps they want to get him in a room so that they can have his full attention when they explain how grant money works. Isolating him from from the influence of his peers (COAST and Smitherman) may be the only way to get through to him.

The owner of Zulu was just on with Scott Sloan (Friday 9AM) discussing the continued support for the streetcar. Not a great representative IMO; a person with strong debate skills is needed to go up against AM radio personalities. Sloan's main argument is that Tuesday's election was a streetcar referendum.

So... who is going to pay for Cranley's trip to DC? Wouldn't a phone accomplish the same task?

 

Perhaps they want to get him in a room so that they can have his full attention when they explain how grant money works. Isolating him from from the influence of his peers (COAST and Smitherman) may be the only way to get through to him.

 

He probably already knows how grants work but was just BSing everybody.

GCrites80s: I hope so. I think we'll end up with a Vincent Gray situation. Opposing the streetcar until fiscal issues related to cancellation prevent...cancellation.

You know I can almost understand a Republican seeking the support of the Scorched-Earth Society (aka: Tea Partiers) to expand his political base. But a Democrat?

 

Cranley appears to be a stalking horse for the Tea Party.

So... who is going to pay for Cranley's trip to DC? Wouldn't a phone accomplish the same task?

 

Perhaps they want to get him in a room so that they can have his full attention when they explain how grant money works. Isolating him from from the influence of his peers (COAST and Smitherman) may be the only way to get through to him.

 

They are bringing in a cult deprogrammer to wash out the bad and put in the good. <snark> Seriously, Cranley will be given the full treatment, since the Administration does not want another embarrassing return of money from Ohio on their hands.

They are bringing in a cult deprogrammer to wash out the bad and put in the good. <snark> Seriously, Cranley will be given the full treatment, since the Administration does not want another embarrassing return of money from Ohio on their hands.

 

Especially from someone in their own party. That would be a major embarrassment. I hate to throw around the T-word, but Cranley would be a traitor to his own party if he did that.

So... who is going to pay for Cranley's trip to DC? Wouldn't a phone accomplish the same task?

 

Perhaps they want to get him in a room so that they can have his full attention when they explain how grant money works. Isolating him from from the influence of his peers (COAST and Smitherman) may be the only way to get through to him.

 

I find it funny that the first thing Cranley does after being elected mayor of Cincinnati is fly out to DC. Maybe it's a sign of where he actually wants to be, but never will because as slimy a politician as he is, Steve Chabot would eat him for lunch, again.

Technically he lives in Ohio's second district in Hyde Park, I believe. So that would mean he would be competing with Brad Wenstrup which might be possible for him.

Scott Sloan 2 years ago

"The streetcar route is stupid.  Downtown to Clifton? Get some real light rail transportation.  From the suburbs to the airport"

 

Scott Sloan today

"Listen, I love the route of downtown to uptown.  It makes sense.  We just can't afford it"

 

Scott Sloan 3 years ago

"$45 million to renovate Washington Park?  In this economic climate? What a waste.  Another gem from City Clownsil"

 

Scott Sloan today

"Washington Park is doing great.  That's an example of great investment..  Not the streetcar"

Technically he lives in Ohio's second district in Hyde Park, I believe. So that would mean he would be competing with Brad Wenstrup which might be possible for him.

 

Indeed, I remember he ran against Chabot once before but I suppose he's moved since then. His moving toward the right side of the political spectrum would make an election against Wenstrup interesting, though the second is usually pretty safe Republican territory.

The owner of Zulu was just on with Scott Sloan (Friday 9AM) discussing the continued support for the streetcar. Not a great representative IMO; a person with strong debate skills is needed to go up against AM radio personalities. Sloan's main argument is that Tuesday's election was a streetcar referendum.

Absolutely right.

To go against the bullies of 700wlw, you need strong retorts from skilled debaters.  You know what they are going to ask.  When Yvette did that and started taking it to Bill Cunningham the other day, he responded "You talk to much" . 

They are bringing in a cult deprogrammer to wash out the bad and put in the good. <snark> Seriously, Cranley will be given the full treatment, since the Administration does not want another embarrassing return of money from Ohio on their hands.

 

Especially from someone in their own party. That would be a major embarrassment. I hate to throw around the T-word, but Cranley would be a traitor to his own party if he did that.

Cranley already is.

heck, & I'm not even a Dem...

Scott Sloan 2 years ago

"The streetcar route is stupid.  Downtown to Clifton? Get some real light rail transportation.  From the suburbs to the airport"

 

Scott Sloan today

"Listen, I love the route of downtown to uptown.  It makes sense.  We just can't afford it"

 

Scott Sloan 3 years ago

"$45 million to renovate Washington Park?  In this economic climate? What a waste.  Another gem from City Clownsil"

 

Scott Sloan today

"Washington Park is doing great.  That's an example of great investment..  Not the streetcar"

 

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing we need to be plastering all over the local media!  The city is full of morons like that guy who just say things right out of their arse (I'm traveling in Ireland right now:)) and then completely change their tone when they see something succeed.  I am absolutely positive the streetcar will be exactly the same (even if the uptown connection is not made for another decade or more). How can we get through to people??

The Enquirer, with a new streetcar story on Cincinnati.com everyday, is laughing it's way to the bank. I wouldn't be surprised to see them remove their flimsy paywall from streetcar stories.

The Enquirer, with a new streetcar story on Cincinnati.com everyday, is laughing it's way to the bank. I wouldn't be surprised to see them remove their flimsy paywall from streetcar stories.

 

I wouldn't notice them if people weren't posting links constantly. Haven't visited their site since the election. They are absolutely derelict in their duty to inform the public. The press has constitutional protection because it plays a crucial educational role in a democratic system, and that publication uses its status to abuse the voting public like an alcoholic domestic partner.

Friends, If you know someone who lives in the Cincinnati area, please send this to them.....

 

Just got this note from a streetcar supporter:

 

I just spoke to Brooke Hill in Sen. Sherrod Brown's local office who said that my call was the very first she has received from anyone with my [pro-streetcar] point of view and that she had received plenty of calls from people from the stop-the-streetcar side.

 

Here are the numbers:

 

Local (Brooke Hill): (513) 684-1021

D.C.: (202) 224-2315

 

Please give personal reasons why you want the streetcar project continued and even expanded. For the latest background information, please read this article from today:

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/11/07/construction-continues-on-cincy-streetcar-mayor-elect-still-wants-it-stopped/

 

Thank you for your efforts.

Have everyone written to Senator Brown? He needs to know that:

 

* Cincinnatians support the streetcar and have voted pro-streetcar on two ballot referenda.

* It's under construction and it would be wasteful to stop the project now.

* Much of the growth Downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine has experienced in recent years is due to the promise of the streetcar. If it's cancelled, we'll lose many of these residents and businesses.

 

Senator Brown has supported the streetcar project in the past. He understands that public transportation has benefits to our environment and our city's economy. Let him know that using that money to build a highway interchange does not achieve those same benefits.

 

You can submit feedback online at http://www.brown.senate.gov/contact/

The Enquirer, with a new streetcar story on Cincinnati.com everyday, is laughing it's way to the bank. I wouldn't be surprised to see them remove their flimsy paywall from streetcar stories.

 

I posted a streetcar article on this thread somewhere. The writer is a transportation expert and fan of light rail. What he wrote made sense to

me. Street car - light rail overwhelmingly works best between a major university campus / medical center and a central business district,

with a population in the adjoining areas of at least 100,000. I think at present, if you look at Pill Hill, University Heights, OTR, Downtown

we are closer to 70,000 in population, but it is increasing. From Day 1 I think it should have always included Uptown.

 

I will see if I can repost that article.

For the streetcar proponents, maybe convincing Cranley and other decision makers that the not only should the project

continue it should be expanded.

 

College towns are ideal for public transit because they follow the original purpose of moving people from nearby suburbs to the CBD. Students tend to live in clustered housing near the university, their primary destination. Of the 30 most transit-efficient cities in the U.S. (defined by the number of passenger trips per mile of transit service provided), 16 are college towns such as Athens, Iowa City, Chapel Hill, and Ann Arbor. The other 14 are mainly large, dense cities with excellent rail transport such as San Francisco, Boston, Los Angeles, New York, and Washington, D.C. (all of which also have significant student populations, though not the 25 percent threshold I use to classify college towns).

The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people. Athens, Gainesville, Norman, and Bloomington are ideal for this type of alignment (as is Lansing, which has opted to build a bus rapid transit system). We already have models for how to do this. Three systems in France provide exactly this kind of service: LeMans, Orleans, and Reims carry between 35,000 and 48,000 trips daily on systems that have between 6.9 and 11.2 miles of track. These streetcars—called tramways there—not only serve universities and downtowns but also take advantage of the tram’s small footprint by wending between buildings, using rights of way that are useless to larger mass transit vehicles or automobiles.

 

http://www.insideronline.org/summary.cfm?id=18475

 

The writer is Samuel L. Scheib, of Trip Planner Magazine.

http://www.tripplannermag.com/

From Day 1 I think it should have always included Uptown.

 

This was Qualls's position, and in the end it created delays and opened the door to more of the ensuing insanity that may not have happened otherwise.

 

I remember the article. Everyone was attacking it when you posted it, assuming it was anti-Cincinnati streetcar. I pointed out that it actually would support the Cincinnati streetcar.

 

Personally, I am leaning toward the idea that the Uptown link should be done via a tunnel. I know it sounds politically unpalatable (especially after Tuesday), and it might be, but I think it's worth at least studying. And assuming the cost is less than maybe $500m, there should be a full push by supporters, as much media-whoring as humanly possible, and a ballot referendum to secure funding and make it happen. Maybe do like KC did and make a special tax district in Downtown and Uptown to pay for it. Try to get UC and the hospitals to publicly back the idea.

A tunnel?? Why would you even suggest something that's not needed? Besides, it was studied for the light-rail line 15 years ago and hasn't been brought up since with good reason. Can we move on from that?