November 15, 201311 yr ^Shouldn't they be reviewing that now? They do have 2 full weeks before they can vote.
November 15, 201311 yr ^Shouldn't they be reviewing that now? They do have 2 full weeks before they can vote. I don't know why they aren't either. They have the resources at their disposal.
November 15, 201311 yr Well, since we've seen over the years that the local media reads this forum and takes a lot of their stories from this thread... SOMEONE PLEASE ASK THEM THAT QUESTION ON THE RECORD. Regardless of how anyone feels about this project, killing it now is akin to setting a match to millions of dollars.
November 15, 201311 yr Not good news at all, guys http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/new-council-works-to-halt-streetcar-project/-/13549970/22996960/-/gjlig3z/-/index.html?absolute=true&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=wlwt Supporters perceive three as persuadable. They are P.G. Sittenfeld, David Mann and Kevin Flynn. However, all three told WLWT News 5 they believe work should be stopped while lawmakers look at a cost comparison of stopping versus continuing. It appears the project will need a good legal team to survive Some folks aren't going to like this," Sittenfeld said. "The mere possibility that this project could stop means I think we should not be spending money right now." If the project is halted, it will be cancelled. Word is lawsuits will be ready before John Cranley and council even takes a vote on the streetcar Lawmakers? lol
November 16, 201311 yr Well, since we've seen over the years that the local media reads this forum and takes a lot of their stories from this thread... SOMEONE PLEASE ASK THEM THAT QUESTION ON THE RECORD. Regardless of how anyone feels about this project, killing it now is akin to setting a match to millions of dollars. You are preaching to the choir. I read a comment today that the streetcar is the reason the cincinnati pension is a mess. I read another comment that say "Obama needs to take the streetcar back to Kenya" People are woefully uninformed. Unfortunately, they all voted last election and not enough of us did
November 16, 201311 yr why couldnt they do something similar to the parking deal but in busy corridors along proposed streetcar routes and say "if you build and maintain streetcar infrastructure along this route you can have parking right to the surrounding blocks for x amount of years"? I don't see why everyone in the middle third side of this story is suddenly "for it" if it were being built up the hill but arent willing to look for ways to incentivize private investment to help make it happen. Does this really have to be a do or don't debate? I would expect that cranley with his tif obsession would want to get creative with funding so he could pretend he made this happen for the city by swooping in at the last minute, I mean if you dangle a chance to be dishonest in front of a politician they can't resist for long.
November 16, 201311 yr ^Property owners along the route could organize a corporation, raise the capital, and build the streetcar line. This is the way that streetcar lines were built historically. Jim Uber is willing to pay his share.
November 16, 201311 yr If the streetcar ever gets funded by an SID tax, the taxes generated from the development better not be distributed to other neighborhoods.
November 16, 201311 yr ^Property owners along the route could organize a corporation, raise the capital, and build the streetcar line. This is the way that streetcar lines were built historically. Jim Uber is willing to pay his share. Well, yes. I imagine that method was a little easier when the streets were dirt and all you were moving was pigs and horses. Practically, nowadays, we need Council leadership to study and plan this, and move forward to seek approval. Part of the study and plan is to decide what an equitable stake from landowners would be. Surely it's less than the full cost, unless the City wants to assign all of the future increased tax revenues to those same landowners in exchange for paying the cost to build it. Personally I'd start with a plan that could fund the city portion of operations. I'm trying to get an audience to hear such a proposal. If anyone out there feels strongly enough to join me, just say so.
November 16, 201311 yr If the streetcar ever gets funded by an SID tax, the taxes generated from the development better not be distributed to other neighborhoods. Legally, it cannot. A SID is a legal instrument and geographically constrained. But let's stay focused on the immediate task.... The streetcar work continues until City Council says so, not the mayor. Focus your communiques on City Council. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 16, 201311 yr People like PG, Flynn, and Mann may be interested in sponsoring a SID as an integral part of providing support to keep the work going continuously. On December 1 there's going to be tremendous pressure on all parties and we should be developing a _constructive_ relief valve.
November 16, 201311 yr As someone who lives on the route, i am all for a sid and think it is a great model for future expansion. I think it is worth the discussion on the possibility, and is a win-win politically for everyone if possible.
November 16, 201311 yr ^I'm all for creative financing alternatives to save the project, but keep in mind that Cranley doesn't want the streetcar "fixed", he wants it dead. The ideas being thrown around here are great, and should be brought before council, but we also need to make it obvious that simply halting the project is madness and is not a viable option. I'm not sure how we do that without cooperation from the press, but we must find a way to get that message out.
November 16, 201311 yr I suggested a SID for the streetcar years ago, but it was shot down almost immediately as being impractical for this project. I don't remember the reason, but I would assume it was that a SID just along the route wouldn't pay enough to fully fund the system. Even if it could just cover the future operating costs, wouldn't that be a hugely convincing point to make to the "No" voters on council?
November 16, 201311 yr Update on the enquirer's latest poll: Should the city immediately halt work on the streetcar project? Yes: 7994 No: 18292 Simple polls like this, though unscientific, show massive support for the project. Those favoring continuation outnumber those favoring cancellation about 2.3 to 1.
November 16, 201311 yr why arent people going on the offensive too? Let's start using hillbilly buzzwords like "boondoggle" for all the ridiculous spending kasich and cranley do under the guise of highways being paid for by gas tax (lie... we just sank 25 million into the mlk interchange paid for by the city)
November 17, 201311 yr ^Poking at someone else's project does not gain any advantage for your own project; it's a lose-lose situation. The streetcar debate ceased to be rational a long time ago, and has devolved into a grudge match.
November 17, 201311 yr A past blaster from Greg Harris http://votegregharris.blogspot.com/2007/10/greg-harris-bring-back-street-cars.html
November 17, 201311 yr I'm on a Newport list serve, and the streetcar topic came up this weekend. The responses were all generally positive, ranging from "I'd rather have light rail, but..." to "this needs to get built, and Newport needs to be the first extension". This issue is much bigger than just Cincinnati. Our entire urban core needs this.
November 17, 201311 yr I'm on a Newport list serve, and the streetcar topic came up this weekend. The responses were all generally positive, ranging from "I'd rather have light rail, but..." to "this needs to get built, and Newport needs to be the first extension". This issue is much bigger than just Cincinnati. Our entire urban core needs this. Much agree, J_J, but p-l-e-a-s-e don't reveal these heartfelt observations to either: (a) Mason, Blue Ash and West Chester or; (b) Columbus and Cleveland. Not many of them will appreciate the magnetic, meaningful connections between Cincinnati's core and NKY--especially, Covington, Newport, Bellevue, and Dayton. We are truly one!
November 17, 201311 yr Actually, a lot of folks are paying VERY close attention to the streetcar project in Columbus & Cleveland....myself included (CBus). Its important that the streetcar project moves forward successfully because it will demonstrate to other urban leadership that these kinds of projects can work in Ohio. I'm personally amazed at the strength of Mayor Mallory and his staff as well as the organization and passion of the support. Keep up the good work and I know a lot of folks up north are excited to see this completed. From an outsiders perspective, it will be a massive disappointment if the new Mayor follows through and "cancels" this project because it will seem like the overall momentum of revitalization has somewhat ceased. I for one look forward to using the streetcar as a tourist....it will be great to easily move between the banks, fountain square and OTR....really a great staycation opportunity for those folks seeking a city-centric weekend trip.
November 17, 201311 yr Well after the 6+ month delay caused by Duke refusing to allow utilities within 8 feet of the streetcar tracks, THIS MANHOLE WAS JUST POSITIONED *BETWEEN* THE TRACKS:
November 17, 201311 yr I also "test rode" the tracks. It's actually impossible to ride both tires of a bike into the tracks without getting off the bike and setting it in the groove, which means it's more or less impossible to fall while riding:
November 17, 201311 yr Wouldn't a drain just look like a drain? Seeing that just makes me feel that there is some unseen, nameless force behind all of the headwinds this project has seen and will see. Maybe it's all of the conspiracy talk with the Kennedy anniversary that's got me in a weird frame of mind. And I apologize for waxing philosophical on page 9999... But what makes Duke cook up (given the pic above) something so far-fetched and contrived? What's in it for groups that oppose it so fervently? Is the streetcar that big a threat to solvency? Or something else? I heard someone once say "follow the money". Wonder if that applies here? And how.
November 17, 201311 yr ^That could be just for water to drain in the middle of the street. It's a flangeway. It goes next to the rail so a wheel's flange can keep the vehicle on the rails. First went into practice in Swansea, Wales 206 years ago. Still works great today. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 17, 201311 yr I think he meant the manhole which goes back even further. Why do we keep investing in this ancient tech?
November 17, 201311 yr Why do we keep investing in this ancient tech? Right? I mean, wheeled transportation is so passe. We should be investing in teleportation tech.
November 18, 201311 yr Dear Sir, I don’t live in Cincinnati (Miamisburg, Ohio), but I believe that I love Cincinnati almost as much as you; and I want to see Cincy progress as much as you do. The streetcar project is exciting, forward-looking and will encourage development along the route. It is only the beginning of, hopefully, a much longer system. I believe it will more than pay for itself, but for some reason it does not, it will in the long run benefit the city. People who say it will not benefit them are somewhat short-sighted and selfish. Interstate I-74 may not benefit directly some who live in eastern Cincinnati, but this region would not be the same for many people and trucking companies who carry goods to Cincy from Indianapolis. AND we all pay indirectly for maintaining this interstate! If the streetcar is cancelled the country will know that Cincinnati is still conservative - a city that cancelled a subway, and now a streetcar system – a system that many cities are willing to take a reasonable risk in building a streetcar system. There will be in the future little if any chance of getting funds for future transportation projects. Please rethink your position on the streetcar. Have the courage to change your mind! Best! Jack W. Geis [email protected] SENT TO SITTENFELD
November 18, 201311 yr Did you know they had plumbing back in the time of the ancient Romans?!?! Seriously, all these water lines and sewers are such boondoggles.
November 18, 201311 yr Jack, I love the letter. Thanks for writing it. Can you please make sure to send copies to Mann and Flynn too?
November 18, 201311 yr Well after the 6+ month delay caused by Duke refusing to allow utilities within 8 feet of the streetcar tracks, THIS MANHOLE WAS JUST POSITIONED *BETWEEN* THE TRACKS: ^ Probably a streetcar-related manhole hosting power or communications facilities for the project.
November 18, 201311 yr This is what I received in a recent email. I'm on my phone, so sorry about the formatting: a. John Cranley – [email protected] b. Current Council – [email protected] c. P.G. Sittenfeld - http://pgsittenfeld.nationbuilder.com/share_your_thoughts d. David Mann – [email protected] e. Kevin Flynn – [email protected] f. Amy Murray - [email protected]
November 18, 201311 yr If and when petitions start popping up, I would think the upcoming holiday shopping would be a good time to start. For example, I know Small Business Saturday is coming up (Nov. 30th). That's when I do my shopping in OTR. It would be nice to see some petitions out.
November 18, 201311 yr ok, I know this another dumba$$ list ranking of cities article but it points up the value of the streetcar to attract retiring boomers to the basin. The article discusses amenities seniors want, including walkability, sports, arts, continuing education, healthcare, etc. Add to that, the appeal of the modern design to people with mobility problems and the ability to chuck the car & use that money on other things... bleep Cranley & his 'kids' BS - the streetcar can attract seniors for decades. It can help boost the local funeral industry for Pete's sake... I can't believe people would squander this opportunity... http://livability.com/top-10/top-10-best-places-retire-2013/cincinnati/oh
November 18, 201311 yr >It would be nice to see some petitions out. It's against the law to simply set petitions out on a counter. Sure, COAST got away with it, but their goons will be out in force scrutinizing any signatures gathered by us. The moment they detect something borderline (or maybe they'll just make it up), they're on 700 WLW telling it to 100,000 people.
November 18, 201311 yr >It would be nice to see some petitions out. It's against the law to simply set petitions out on a counter. Sure, COAST got away with it, but their goons will be out in force scrutinizing any signatures gathered by us. The moment they detect something borderline (or maybe they'll just make it up), they're on 700 WLW telling it to 100,000 people. Wasn't the issue there that the person working the counter wasn't the person who was listed on the petition? A lot of shops around OTR are owner-operated, so long as they're the one at the counter they should be able to have the petition there. They could at least have a sign that says "See so-and-so to sign streetcar petition" I agree that COAST will be trying to find any and all faults/technicalities that they can should a petition get started.
November 18, 201311 yr With the push to contact CEOs, has anyone tried contacting Jim Koch of Samuel Adams/Boston Beer Company? With the Sam Adams Brewery near the streetcar line, he is clearly a stakeholder. Appears that, despite his company carrying the Boston banner, he has some affection for his home town (and OTR). Having chosen Boston and lived there so long now, he likely has a strong sense of the benefits of public transit. I tried looking for his email or social media profiles, to no avail. I emailed Mallory & Qualls, thinking they might have a way of reaching him. But I want to throw it out there for you people, too. He could potentially be a strong ally, and he's not chained down by any BS local political games which might silence locally-based CEOs.
November 18, 201311 yr ^Another possible avenue could be from Greg Hardman (owner of Christian Moerlein). Despite being competitors, I'm sure they have a relationship and they could possibly co-author an opinion piece in the enquirer or something.
November 18, 201311 yr ^^Add to that the owners of Rhinegeist, who are about as pro-OTR as they come. Maybe some sort of brewers' coalition could weigh in with support for this.
November 18, 201311 yr Dear Sir, I dont live in Cincinnati (Miamisburg, Ohio), but I believe that I love Cincinnati almost as much as you; and I want to see Cincy progress as much as you do. The streetcar project is exciting, forward-looking and will encourage development along the route. It is only the beginning of, hopefully, a much longer system. I believe it will more than pay for itself, but for some reason it does not, it will in the long run benefit the city. People who say it will not benefit them are somewhat short-sighted and selfish. Interstate I-74 may not benefit directly some who live in eastern Cincinnati, but this region would not be the same for many people and trucking companies who carry goods to Cincy from Indianapolis. AND we all pay indirectly for maintaining this interstate! If the streetcar is cancelled the country will know that Cincinnati is still conservative - a city that cancelled a subway, and now a streetcar system a system that many cities are willing to take a reasonable risk in building a streetcar system. There will be in the future little if any chance of getting funds for future transportation projects. Please rethink your position on the streetcar. Have the courage to change your mind! Best! Jack W. Geis [email protected] SENT TO SITTENFELD Jack - "Conservative" Is not a four letter word. There is nothing wrong with being conservative and in many areas it is a good thing. I consider myself a progressive conservative who is for the streetcar because I see a lot of value in it. I think it is good for the region and there are a lot of intangible benefits that stem from it. That being said, while I am in favor of it, this does not mean it gets a blank check. If costs rose to $500 million for phase 1, then I do not believe it is a great investment As of now, I think it is worth going forward and hope the project continues. The other issue I take with your letter to Cranley is that while you may be a Stakeholder who is interested in the region, you are not a tax payer so really your opinion does not count as much as someone who has skin in the game. If Cranley were reading your letter, he would probably think that I don't really care what this guy thinks because he cant vote for me and pays no taxes toward the streetcar either. So while it is nice you are supportive of the streetcar, your letter will carry little weight since you have no skin in the game.
November 18, 201311 yr ^^Add to that the owners of Rhinegeist, who are about as pro-OTR as they come. Maybe some sort of brewers' coalition could weigh in with support for this. Awesome idea! I know Greg Hardman and the Rhinegeist people are already very much on board with the streetcar cause.
November 18, 201311 yr Look for Cranley streetcar vote soon after Dec. 1 Shortly after he’s sworn in Dec. 1, Mayor-elect John Cranley plans to call for a vote of council to pause the $133 million project while its financial implications are studied. But does he have to have a vote? Jay Kincaid, Cranley’s campaign chief who’s moving to City Hall with him, said Monday they’d have to look into whether they technically needed a vote or if Cranley could just halt the work himself. “But I think the plan is to have a vote to stop spending money.” Kincaid said, “so that there can be a full accounting of the project.” Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 18, 201311 yr The Case For Streetcars! This graphic is making the rounds on the web today. Allow it to fully open and run through the entire sequence.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 18, 201311 yr WCPO News just reported that Cranley's December 3rd meeting in D.C. with transportation officials has been postponed due to scheduling conflicts on his side. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 18, 201311 yr I did not send my e -mail to Cranley. I realize my comments don't carry much "weight," because I live 50 miles away in Dayton, but my arguments in favor of the streetcar still are valid. I never should have put my address in the e-mail. BTW, I was using "conservative" in the old way of Cincinnati being afraid to explore new ideas, and with some lack of imagination, and with some risk. That is no longer true of Cincinnati. Feel free to send your own e-mail to Council members!
November 18, 201311 yr WCPO News just reported that Cranley's December 3rd meeting in D.C. with transportation officials has been postponed due to scheduling conflicts on his side. He must have a meeting scheduled with GM, Firestone and Gulf that day.
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