November 26, 201311 yr nati: the other thing I was thinking too is that with each new ordinance the clock would be reset on the 30 days. Or am I wrongly assuming that they would have to be chronologically passed?
November 26, 201311 yr Winburn: 'I'm going to keep an open mind' on streetcar Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier Cincinnati City Councilman Charles Winburn wants a third party to review the city administration’s estimate on how much it will cost to scuttle the streetcar project and left the possibility open that he will not vote to kill the streetcar. During the final meeting of this council’s term, Winburn said that the projection by streetcar project executive John Deatrick that finishing the project would cost nearly as much as it will to cancel it “appear to be reasonable.” http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/11/26/winburn-im-going-to-keep-an-open.html
November 26, 201311 yr Winburn: 'I'm going to keep an open mind' on streetcar Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier Cincinnati City Councilman Charles Winburn wants a third party to review the city administration’s estimate on how much it will cost to scuttle the streetcar project and left the possibility open that he will not vote to kill the streetcar. During the final meeting of this council’s term, Winburn said that the projection by streetcar project executive John Deatrick that finishing the project would cost nearly as much as it will to cancel it “appear to be reasonable.” http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/11/26/winburn-im-going-to-keep-an-open.html Wow! I was surprised by PG's announcement, but this is shocking! Common sense may yet prevail.
November 26, 201311 yr nati: the other thing I was thinking too is that with each new ordinance the clock would be reset on the 30 days. Or am I wrongly assuming that they would have to be chronologically passed? Each one would have its own independent "clock." They would all be subject to referendum, and the November 2014 ballot could be a really interesting one, with multiple streetcar issues on it. I have to think this would get some embarrassing national coverage. We already seem to be an innovator in obstruction. I could see this seriously backfiring for Cranley & the council majority, as it could result in a very efficient pro-streetcar, pro-progress signature collection machine, where progressives would be able to collect 8700 signatures for anything they want on the ballot, at the drop of a hat. It would also entrench PG in the pro-streetcar camp, as it violates the principles he espouses.
November 26, 201311 yr Cranley's house of cards is beginning to fall. Its definitely not a good sign for your administration when presumed allies are already jumping ship and you haven't even taken office yet.
November 26, 201311 yr I would encourage everyone who has already written to Flynn, Mann, and Sittenfeld to also write to Winburn. Emphasize the fiscal responsibility aspect of completing the system.
November 26, 201311 yr By the way, I think developing such a signature collection machine should be a huge priority right now. 8 years of Mallory left a lot of people complacent (leading to such a low turnout in the last election), but there is no auto-pilot option for progress at this point. We need an initiative & referendum machine stronger than the NAATP alliance to push things forward over the next 4 years. I have no doubt this is a possibility. If CO can mobilize and wreak havoc on the city from the suburbs, it should be a relative cakewalk to exert influence from the urban core. By persistently putting progressive issues on the ballot, it also works to keep voter morale high and prevent disasters like 2013. How cool would it be if we could get the streetcar up to UC, amid active opposition from council and the mayor? Unlikely, but it would be awesome.
November 26, 201311 yr And in construction news, rails are in concrete to Liberty, rails in the trench up to Elder, and the trench excavation is about 12 feet from Henry. Still need to excavate Liberty and Findlay streets as well as a small crosswalk at Elder. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 26, 201311 yr 'I have the veto power. I'll veto all spending for the streetcar' - John Cranley
November 26, 201311 yr 'I have the veto power. I'll veto all spending for the streetcar' - John Cranley Ummm...isn't the money all in place already? He can't "veto" funding that has already been allocated. He can only "veto" any additional spending. Cranley is seriously delusional and should be recalled.
November 26, 201311 yr Poor little Cranley sounds so aggitated talking about the streetcar topic over and over.
November 26, 201311 yr 'I have the veto power. I'll veto all spending for the streetcar' - John Cranley "(Streetcar supporters) are in LaLa Land" - John Cranley "We are going to cancel it" - John Cranley "What were not going to do...We are not going to let the streetcar supporters collect signatures and continue to waste 50,000 per day while we wait for a vote" - JOhn Cranley
November 26, 201311 yr "What were not going to do...We are not going to let the streetcar supporters collect signatures and continue to waste 50,000 per day while we wait for a vote" - JOhn Cranley Heh... how's that supposed to work?
November 26, 201311 yr What a small man. I have to think many of the people who voted for him are regretting their choice.
November 26, 201311 yr I would encourage everyone who has already written to Flynn, Mann, and Sittenfeld to also write to Winburn. Emphasize the fiscal responsibility aspect of completing the system. It would be great to pit the Republicans against Cranley on this issue, all in the name of fiscal responsibility, but ultimately just to hamper him so as to make him less likely to succeed in future political campaigns. He'd have a tough 4 years ahead of him with basically Mann and maybe Flynn being his only "friends" on council.
November 26, 201311 yr Whoever is advising Cranley should make him see that he is really hurting his image and future political prospects by fighting against the streetcar. If he loses the fight he will look ineffective, if he wins the fight he will have alienated at least half of the population (mostly the young half that will be voting in elections 10 and 20 years from now). Not to mention that he will spend his first year+ in office engaged in legal battles with contractors and supporters of referendums. He will not emerge unscathed. The best course of action for Cranley is to concede that it is too far along to stop and move on to the business of running the city.
November 26, 201311 yr "What were not going to do...We are not going to let the streetcar supporters collect signatures and continue to waste 50,000 per day while we wait for a vote" - JOhn Cranley Heh... how's that supposed to work? The same way the feds will convert the federal funds given to the streetcar for other projects...
November 26, 201311 yr What a small man. I have to think many of the people who voted for him are regretting their choice. I know a few.
November 26, 201311 yr Whoever is advising Cranley should make him see that he is really hurting his image and future political prospects by fighting against the streetcar. If he loses the fight he will look ineffective, if he wins the fight he will have alienated at least half of the population (mostly the young half that will be voting in elections 10 and 20 years from now). Not to mention that he will spend his first year+ in office engaged in legal battles with contractors and supporters of referendums. He will not emerge unscathed. The best course of action for Cranley is to concede that it is too far along to stop and move on to the business of running the city. He referred to himself in the 3rd person...His ego will not let him admit he is wrong
November 26, 201311 yr Jay Kincaid says they are going to stop streetcar spending during construction while they wait for a referendum vote. How is that possible?
November 26, 201311 yr And I guarantee you Smitherman, Cranley and COAST will be meeting to discuss how to stop future phases and monies being spent... Doubt it, I know people who worked for Cranley's campaign and as much as I don't like him, the fact is, he didn't officially reach out to COAST, he didn't damn them either (they are part of his base) but he refused to take a more active stance with them. The image I get is of an evil castle with 4 diabolical men all sitting at their thrones when you say that. Come on back down to the reality of the situation.
November 26, 201311 yr And I guarantee you Smitherman, Cranley and COAST will be meeting to discuss how to stop future phases and monies being spent... Doubt it, I know people who worked for Cranley's campaign and as much as I don't like him, the fact is, he didn't officially reach out to COAST, he didn't damn them either (they are part of his base) but he refused to take a more active stance with them. The image I get is of an evil castle with 4 diabolical men all sitting at their thrones when you say that. Come on back down to the reality of the situation. Cranley has met with Smitherman reguarly...Who meets with COAST regularly...This happened before during and after the election. It's not a far stretch to infer that COAST, Smitherman and Cranley were and are in close contact in some way, shape or form By the way, Cincinnati Enquirer editorial on the streetcar coming out at any moment. I have nor have I heard any idea of what they will say
November 26, 201311 yr PG says "continue the streetcar project." "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 26, 201311 yr ^Alex Triantafilou's letter: "Who is P.G. Sittenfeld?" "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 26, 201311 yr Apparently Al Triantifilou is very disappointed with PG. aawwwww...... A Republican is disappointed in a Democrat. Finally, some normalcy has returned to this situation!
November 26, 201311 yr EDITORIAL: Finish the streetcar As the city of Cincinnati decides the fate of its streetcar project, it is tempting to reopen the debate about the merits of the system itself. The outgoing administration failed to convince residents that the streetcar was an economic development tool that would benefit the entire city and, indeed, the region. By failing to argue effectively for the project, Mayor Mark Mallory allowed it to become a political liability that likely cost his vice mayor, Roxanne Qualls, her shot at his job. But now 200 construction workers are digging up Downtown streets, and 1,800 feet of rails are already in the ground. The question facing Mayor-elect John Cranley and the new City Council is whether the benefits of continuing the project outweigh the costs of stopping it. We believe the benefits of finishing it do outweigh the costs of cancellation, and we urge City Council – which ultimately holds the power in this situation – to support its completion. This is partly for financial reasons, but only partly. The city’s reputation as a reliable partner is also at stake, as is its momentum to attract new jobs and residents. Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 26, 201311 yr Apparently Al Triantifilou is very disappointed with PG. aawwwww...... A Republican is disappointed in a Democrat. Finally, some normalcy has returned to this situation! Yeah, PG-13 will probably be running against a local Republican for a higher office within a few years, so that alliance was going to be short-lived from the get go, else the Republicans are just helping their own competition.
November 26, 201311 yr Favorite Quote: In endorsing Cranley, we said he would “have to rein in his dictatorial tendencies and discipline himself to be diplomatic, respectful and collaborative.” What we’ve seen so far is a matter for concern. Hurling insults at professionals like streetcar project manager John Deatrick isn’t what we need. Deatrick enjoys a good reputation as someone who has managed The Banks project and the rebuild of Fort Washington Way. He needs to stay on the streetcar project.
November 26, 201311 yr Where was that editorial 6 months ago? The Enquirer has been one the of outlets responsible for spreading much of the misinformation that led voters to believe that cancelling the project wasn't a big deal. At the very least they did little to inform the voters. I'm happy that they are FINALLY getting on board the sanity train, but it's really annoying that they're doing so 3 weeks AFTER the election that led us to where we are now.
November 26, 201311 yr We said the city needed someone who could lead from the front and build coalitions and public support for important priorities. In fact, we did not endorse Roxanne Qualls partly because she had not rallied the community around these projects that she said were big priorities. That’s why we’re in this spot today. This quote from the enquirer makes me mad, because looking at Cranley's history proves that he cannot lead a shoebox, and its pretty obvious from his nasty and unprofessional behavior now, that he can't lead. I hope to hell there is a recall of this guy. Even putting his viewpoints which are outdated at best, he's so terrible at uniting people and getting things done, not something Cincy needs at this juncture at all. I still stand by my earlier statement that his actions on a certain day on 2001 alone made him unfit for the mayorship.
November 26, 201311 yr Check out this quote from StreetsBlog: The region must continue to attract people and companies that can choose anywhere in the world to live and work. A low cost of living is no longer enough to spur growth; we must also offer modern infrastructure and amenities, especially to the millennials and baby boomers interested in urban living. Actually, wait, that was from the Enquirer.
November 26, 201311 yr EDITORIAL: Finish the streetcar As the city of Cincinnati decides the fate of its streetcar project, it is tempting to reopen the debate about the merits of the system itself. The outgoing administration failed to convince residents that the streetcar was an economic development tool that would benefit the entire city and, indeed, the region. By failing to argue effectively for the project, Mayor Mark Mallory allowed it to become a political liability that likely cost his vice mayor, Roxanne Qualls, her shot at his job. But now 200 construction workers are digging up Downtown streets, and 1,800 feet of rails are already in the ground. The question facing Mayor-elect John Cranley and the new City Council is whether the benefits of continuing the project outweigh the costs of stopping it. We believe the benefits of finishing it do outweigh the costs of cancellation, and we urge City Council – which ultimately holds the power in this situation – to support its completion. This is partly for financial reasons, but only partly. The city’s reputation as a reliable partner is also at stake, as is its momentum to attract new jobs and residents. Cont Wow! This is a huge, unexpected turn of events. I NEVER, in a MILLION years would have expected the Enquirer to come out in support of finishing this project! Regardless of what they've done in the past, we need to be pleased that they finally did something intelligent. I'm just happy to see that people are actually acknowledging how crazy it would be to just scrap a project like this now. I don't really care what people's opinions are on the streetcar overall. I just want to see our leaders making intelligent decisions.
November 26, 201311 yr Yesterday when the mayor-elect tapped David Mann to serve as vice mayor, he said he thought Mr. Mann would be able to carry on in case "I get hit by a bus". Well, I think Mr. Cranley has [figuratively] been hit by a bus today. It's my fervent hope that he is now stunned enough to reconsider and tone down his divisive, damaging rhetoric, and that he also advises any allies he has left on council to do the same.
November 26, 201311 yr Yesterday when the mayor-elect tapped David Mann to serve as vice mayor, he said he thought Mr. Mann would be able to carry on in case "I get hit by a bus". Well, I think Mr. Cranley has [figuratively] been hit by a bus today. It's my fervent hope that he is now stunned enough to reconsider and tone down his divisive, damaging rhetoric, and that he also advises any allies he has left on council to do the same. I don't expect cranley to change his mind on anything. He's in too deep. His ego will not let him
November 26, 201311 yr Regardless of what they've done in the past, we need to be pleased that they finally did something intelligent. What irks me is that it's not like any new information has come out in the last three weeks that might have led them to a change of heart. They could have endorsed Cranley while simultaneously pointing out that his stance on cancelling the streetcar was flat out wrong, but instead they were silent on the issue for the entire election. Worse, they've been posting negative letter after negative letter for years. It's funny that they have the nerve to blame Mallory for not making the case for the streetcar. He made the case; they just ignored it and repeatedly reported conjecture from opponents as fact instead. All of that said, I'm glad they're finally with us. Welcome, Cincinnati Enquirer, to the ranks of the supporters.
November 26, 201311 yr All of that said, I'm glad they're finally with us. Welcome, Cincinnati Enquirer, to the ranks of the supporters. Yes. We can not try to change peoples minds and then be pissed off when they do. I'll wait to see what comes after before I subscribe, but good for them for being willing to say, so strongly, what needs to be done. This is the most pointed, non-wishy-washy, editorial I can recall reading in the Enquirer.
November 26, 201311 yr Public Rally: Line the Line This Sunday (Dec 1st), 12:00 PM at 12th and Elm https://www.facebook.com/events/392067264259582/ Hope to see everyone there!
November 27, 201311 yr No new info has come out, but some may have heard it for the first time -- or heard it from more authoritative sources for the first time. And if that is what is needed to dial down the emotion and cause some sober, process-oriented decision-making to come to this situation, then so be it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 27, 201311 yr Great job Enquirer! Their support is very significant. John Cranley, if you are reading this, let's put this issue behind us and get on with running this city.
November 27, 201311 yr My significant other and I were just talking a few hours ago about Cincinnati, and he asked me "what have the corporations had to say about this debacle?" I politely explained to him that the corporations in Cincinnati are powerful, but it's not a city where they become involved in the local drama on a regular basis. But I think maybe they have spoken.
November 27, 201311 yr The Enquirer just released 11 straight pro cincinnati Streetcar letters to the editor. That's gotta bea record
November 27, 201311 yr Cranley now saying that he's scheduling a streetcar vote on Mon the 2nd, the day after he takes office.
November 27, 201311 yr I think I may be confused about a few things but please fill me in. If they vote to Pause the streetcar on Dec 2, why would it take 30 days to actually stop it? Why would it not happen immediately? At that point the supporters would have to get signatures on the ballot to try and have a referendum. At which point construction would continue? Would they not first have to go to court to get an injunction to continue construction? Why would the referendum be in November and not May? Just curious if anyone had any answers.
November 27, 201311 yr Smitherman (with Amy Murray) on Brian Thomas this morning stating he and Winburn will be calling a special session of council for Monday morning to discuss the streetcar. I think I may be confused about a few things but please fill me in. If they vote to Pause the streetcar on Dec 2, why would it take 30 days to actually stop it? Why would it not happen immediately? Ordiances go into effect after 30 days unless 6 council members agree to pass it as an emergency. Why would the referendum be in November and not May? The explanation at Monday's Town Hall was that referendums must be voted on in the general election. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
November 27, 201311 yr I think I may be confused about a few things but please fill me in. If they vote to Pause the streetcar on Dec 2, why would it take 30 days to actually stop it? Why would it not happen immediately? At that point the supporters would have to get signatures on the ballot to try and have a referendum. At which point construction would continue? Would they not first have to go to court to get an injunction to continue construction? Why would the referendum be in November and not May? Just curious if anyone had any answers. Hopefully this answers your questions (though I may be wrong about some of this--a lot of it comes from the whole parking lease thing last year): My understanding is that under the charter, when council passes an ordinance, it does not take effect for 30 days UNLESS it is passed as an "emergency" measure. To pass as an emergency measure, 6 council members must vote for the "emergency" part of it. (So, for example, you will see votes that are 5-4, but one of the dissenters will vote for the emergency part of the measure so it takes effect immediately.) If there is a 5-4 vote to pause/cancel/etc. the streetcar and it does not get passed as an emergency measure, then the ordinance won't take effect for 30 days. That is when the 30 days clock for a referendum kicks in. My understanding on that is that, if enough signatures are collected for a referendum, the ordinance challenged by the referendum cannot take effect until the referendum occurs. I also understand that the referendum has to take place at a general election (in November) rather than in a special or primary election. All of this may be wrong, but that's my understanding.
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