December 6, 201311 yr This is the kind of [snowy] day when it would've been ESPECIALLY nice to be able to take the streetcar to PNC, US or Fifth Third Banks, then on to Findlay Market, or catch the CSO's Warm Up With Mozart concert at Music Hall, or have lunch in OTR or at The Banks, or visit the Public or Mercantile Libraries or The Ohio Bookstore for some books to get cozy with, or pick up a steak at Bleh-Avril's, or an Rx at CVS, etc., etc. As it is, I'm staying home rather than risking a slippery drive.
December 6, 201311 yr Local media: crank out more stories like this one, please! http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131206/NEWS/312060120/Streetcar-builders-workers-brace-project-s-end
December 6, 201311 yr The following is an e-mail I sent to certain members of Council: DearSir First, I want you to know that I do not live in Cincinnati (Miamisburg, Ohio), but I love the city very much, and visit as often as I can. (and spend $). I know that you are an honest and thoughtful city council member, and I would offer some ideas for you to consider, so that you might change your mind about cancelling the streetcar program. • The estimated ROI is base on the first phase of the project and does not depend on building the uptown connector. Even if yearly costs to operate the streetcar wind up to be several millions of dollars (not considering possible ways of reducing yearly costs by advertising, a small fee to ride the bus, etc.) there will still remain reasonable, though smaller ROI. Property values along the route will increase, resulting in the city obtaining new revenue. • Cancelling the streetcar will cost the city millions of dollars with nothing to show for it. • IF the streetcar is cancelled and already-laid track is torn up and removed, the city will suffer an enormous loss in respect and vision. Los Angeles, Cleveland have already expressed “amazement” that Cincinnati would even consider rejecting federal dollars and removing already existing track. There are almost a dozen cities that are building streetcar systems. • Someone a couple of years ago said that Cincinnati is a “dying city.” Definitely not true today! So please don’t work to kill it. • The streetcar program is a wonderful effort to benefit the entire region, but the entire effort, going beyond the first phase, will take some time. • Please, I ask you: have the courage and integrity to reconsider supporting this streetcar effort – all politics aside!! • Don’t be the council that will be remembered as a “can’t do” council. And don’t let negative thinking others influence you!
December 6, 201311 yr What the hell is Rob Portman talking about now? The streetcar was never good use of federal money It was money for the city. He sure he feels it would be better spent in suburban communities whose residents leech off of Cincinnati for jobs.
December 6, 201311 yr Cranley just said he will veto any ordinance that resumes construction on the Streetcar That would mean Council would needa supermajority to continue construction. .. Unbelievable
December 6, 201311 yr Because this is not normal. Follow the money. $100m is alot of money to throw away especially taxpayers money. One red flag is not accepting non taxpayer money to help fund construction for a week.
December 6, 201311 yr As sunk costs are not considered in the cost benefit analysis going forward (i.e. this is a separate investment decision based on the city's investment going forward, not on the orginal investment) The ROI on the 60+ million investment to finish is probably close to double the initial 2.7 to 1 figure (as that ratio was based on the original investment). The returns never change just the remaining investment (as that shrinks the ROI becomes more favorable). 60 million investment to yield 300-400 million in additional revenue to the city. Or, 30-50 million to cancel project yielding 0 in additional revenue to the city. (I believe these hold true assuming we get the tax district on board to cover the opp expense)
December 6, 201311 yr What the hell is Rob Portman talking about now? The streetcar was never good use of federal money It may be futile but everyone should write to him. I just did: https://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact-form
December 6, 201311 yr Feds just said Dec 19 at midnight is when Cincinnati will have to decide whether or not they will build the streetcar project They will pull their funds then if they don't get an answer of construction
December 6, 201311 yr KPMG will do the independent audit No idea who they are Could you mention your sources please?
December 6, 201311 yr KPMG will do the independent audit No idea who they are They're one of the Big Four accounting firms.
December 6, 201311 yr I'm very pleased to see KPMG as the independent auditor. If true, that's the first bit of transparency we've seen from the administration yet. The deck is not entirely stacked. We might yet have a streetcar.
December 7, 201311 yr Read David manns latest face book post. Promising. Still If cranley vetoes we need flynn on board too
December 7, 201311 yr Mann's blowing smoke up people's butts. The Biz Courier offered an update to their story that kinda blows some holes in Craney's & Mann's sunny dosposition & insinuation that everybody's working hand in hand on this. UPDATE: Now we know why the mayor was the first out of the gate with his positive-sounding statement on the day's streetcar events. Rogoff sent a strongly worded letter to Cranley, Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority CEO Terry Garcia Crews and all nine council members telling them the city had breached the city and SORTA's grant agreement in "an unprecedented action to suspend a federally funded transit project while it is currently under construction." "Unless this action is reversed and I receive not later than midnight on Dec. 19, 2013 unequivocal assurances that the city will proceed with the project to completion on the current FTA-approved schedule, FTA will immediately terminate all of its grant obligations for the project and initiate a debt collection action to recover money owed," Rogoff wrote. The deadline is a hard one, he indicated, and the FTA could have canceled the grants immediately. "The city understood FTA's position before it decided to suspend the project. … FTA Chief Counsel Dorval Carter restated this message to members of the previous Cincinnati City Council by telephone on Nov. 25, 2013. If it would be helpful, we would again make Mr. Carter available to discuss these requirements to the newly seated City Council." The FTA froze the city's access to the grants last week and denied a request to access nearly $1.5 million in federal funds, he added. When contacted Friday night, FTA officials were unsure how much the city had withdrawn to date. "Wednesday's 'suspension' action by the City Council constitutes a failure to make reasonable progress on the project and to adhere to the project schedule and triggers the right of the federal government to terminate its grant obligations," Rogoff said.
December 7, 201311 yr If Mann's description of Cranley's promise to him that the feds wouldn't pull the funds is accurate, I would think Mann would be pretty pissed to read that letter and find out Cranley was talking out of his bum. Cranley needs to tame his hubris, or have some amazing stockpile of backroom deal capital, because I can't imagine his majority coalition on council will want to ride through all the waves. Is Tim Burke cool with Cranley picking fights with the Obama administration?
December 7, 201311 yr It's time Cincinnatians hold a coronation ceremony for their civic leader Cranley and bestow upon him the great honor of naming him TOILET MAYOR! The ceremonial proclamation shall read, "Long will John Cranley be revered, honored and remembered as that distinguished and erudite mayor of Cincinnati who - ever so courageously and forthrightly and against all odds - eagerly flushed years of hard work, the results of two voter referenda, millions of dollars in federal and city funds, millions more spent on settling lawsuits over breaches of contract and payments to cover cancellation costs, not to mention singlehandedly ruining Cincinnati's reputation as a city and community businesses could invest in with confidence and whose leaders could be trusted to honor their word and previous administrations' commitments; and finally and hardly least, caused the workers the city hired to build the streetcar to lose their jobs and financial security - and sent every last bit of all this DOWN THE TOILET!" FOR WHAT PURPOSE? Bravo, Mr. TOILET MAYOR, for flushing us and our city's reputation and dollars and jobs - not to mention future - down your JOHN (as in Cranley!). (Interesting coincidence that there should happen to be a similarity in spelling and pronunciation between "Cranley," the mayor, and "Crane," a noted and long-standing manufacturer of toilets. Do a Google search on "CRANE" and "toilets." You'll see.)
December 7, 201311 yr I wonder if the FBI is looking into things. why should/would they? Has mayor Cranley done anything illegal? Politicians are not obligated to be rational, or even to act in the best interest of the public. The study could come back and state that Cincinnati has every reason to build the streetcar, and the city could still cancel it.
December 7, 201311 yr ^ Where did I mention the mayor? Didn't someone say someone made threats about a politician?
December 7, 201311 yr I like the events of the last few days. The public outcry to save the streetcar has been significant and produced results. Meanwhile factual information is finally getting out there. For a select few elected officials, they may be learning more about the merits and financials of the streetcar and, equally, its broad base of support in the last week than they have previously. KPMG is very respected accounting and auditing firm. As I learned in my public finance courses in college, public-sector finance follows totally different rules than those of private-sector finance. And I suspect KPMG will put their best public-sector accountants on the job given the short duration of this audit and its high-profile findings. KPMG's name will be in the public's eye in a big way no matter what it concludes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 201311 yr Just wondering, how long did it take to come up with the original analyses that proved feasibility, ROI, etc.?
December 7, 201311 yr Just wondering, how long did it take to come up with the original analyses that proved feasibility, ROI, etc.? You don't work for a Big Four accounting firm. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 201311 yr I like the events of the last few days. The public outcry to save the streetcar has been significant and produced results. Meanwhile factual information is finally getting out there. For a select few elected officials, they may be learning more about the merits and financials of the streetcar and, equally, its broad base of support in the last week than they have previously. KPMG is very respected accounting and auditing firm. As I learned in my public finance courses in college, public-sector finance follows totally different rules than those of private-sector finance. Yes, I have a Master's in finance but almost everything I know about public finance I had to learn here. So even if someone claims to be good with business matters you have to ask them if they know anything about public finance (besides basic bond math) because chances are they don't if they haven't studied or worked with it specifically.
December 7, 201311 yr Just wondering, how long did it take to come up with the original analyses that proved feasibility, ROI, etc.? You don't work for a Big Four accounting firm. True, but I did smoke dope on an abandoned Big Four loading dock once. You don't work at a nuclear power plant.
December 7, 201311 yr True, but I did smoke dope on an abandoned Big Four loading dock once. "Mannn, just think, mannnn about all those florescent lights and like, ties that would be in there, man."
December 7, 201311 yr Any news on flynn and what he's thinking? We are going to need 6 votes to restart construction again regardless
December 7, 201311 yr True, but I did smoke dope on an abandoned Big Four loading dock once. "Mannn, just think, mannnn about all those florescent lights and like, ties that would be in there, man." Probably just pigeons & hoboes.
December 7, 201311 yr True, but I did smoke dope on an abandoned Big Four loading dock once. "Mannn, just think, mannnn about all those florescent lights and like, ties that would be in there, man." Probably just pigeons & hoboes. But like if the people still worked there man. Anyway
December 7, 201311 yr KJP - There are three firm strikes against the streetcar's being restarted: 1, The federal government is going to take back their money on December 19 if the city doesn't reverse course. 2, Cranley WILL veto ANY and ALL ordinances restarting the project, REGARDLESS of the findings of the audit. 3, Not one - guaranteed, not one - of the five councilors who voted to kill this project on December 4 is about to change their mind. (Hoping that two of them might - who's kidding whom? Cranley has all five securely locked in his unrelenting grip.) Why waste money on a meaningless audit? The feds might as well take back their money now. It's pointless to hold off eleven or twelve more days - waiting the extra time isn't going to change the outcome. The Cincinnati streetcar project is over - finished - done with. Logic and common sense will have had little or nothing to do with its demise. It's by no means clear just what IS going on backstage. We may never get to find out.
December 7, 201311 yr Why would he order a $250,000 audit and then ignore the findings??? 5 posts? I think you are a troll.
December 7, 201311 yr Why would he order a $250,000 audit and then ignore the findings??? Because he is insane.
December 7, 201311 yr Why would he order a $250,000 audit and then ignore the findings??? Because he had to appropriate money in the ordinances to make them appropriations, which are not subject to a referendum. He literally spent $2 million on nothing to prevent us from voting.
December 7, 201311 yr Either this is all a protracted game, where Flynn and Mann will flip and Cranley will be able to show that he took it to the extreme in trying to halt the project, or Cranley is going to show us all the factual reasons why not to kill it then kill it anyway. Why? Because this is an effort to shatter the progressive crowd that networked during the Mallory/Qualls era. He gives us no hope by creating an atmosphere where facts don't matter and will be used against you, you elitist. Everything will be done HIS way, and you'll never know what he's going to do because everything is carried out behind the scenes. I'm also suspicious that some of this craziness might be rooted in a leadership dispute at 3CDC and that Cranley is on the side of someone who wants 3CDC to go away. Cranley could not only scuttle the streetcar project, he can reverse his own Impaction Ordinance, meaning new government-funded low income housing could be built once again in OTR. So imagine a world not only without a streetcar, but with low income housing built in the middle of the Gateway Quarter expressly to undermine the investments just made over the past five years. Also, he could instruct the police chief to stop patrolling the area, start dumping homeless people there, etc.
December 7, 201311 yr I still think they're going to finish it. And I can't imagine that the new administration hates city progress that much. But maybe I just live in a world where it would be so unfathomably irrational to pay money to waste money that I refuse to believe it.
December 7, 201311 yr Imo The only thing that can save this project is pressure from the business communit. They can influence Mann and flynn. We're finally starting to see it That said the odds have still got to be on the opponents side
December 7, 201311 yr I still think they're going to finish it. And I can't imagine that the new administration hates city progress that much. But maybe I just live in a world where it would be so unfathomably irrational to pay money to waste money that I refuse to believe it. Cranley, like 3rd world dictators, takes advantage of the fact he will do destructive things that no reasonable person would do. The public likes bold gestures. A lot of people like to side with whoever they think is going to "win", no matter how destructive the outcome. Cranley already blew $50 million from the pension fund back in 2003 and nobody remembers. Then he campaigned in 1013 in part on fixing the pension fund.
December 7, 201311 yr Since Luken Pere and Fils are Cranley's mentors, I kinda doubt he wants to sabotage 3CDC, which Charlie seems to be proud of since it formed on his watch. Plus, undermining 3CDC could really wreck his relations with the business community. I agree though that Cranley wants to kill the streetcar no matter what. Tom Luken is a notorious foe of even the bus service here. I guess we'll find out before long whether Mann and Flynn will see the light. The FTA's letter to the mayor and all council members was stern, and hopefully there will be 6 council members who won't be willing to poison our relationship with the Feds. It would be an absolutely terrible legacy to bequeath to our city. Cranley may be burnishing his support among streetcar opponents, but there've got to be business people who are forming a dim view of his management style -- he blew it with the Willie Carden nomination, and he's failed so far in his assertion that he could get the Feds to "repurpose" the streetcar funds. Plus, it may turn out that the new council may end up needing to fashion a parking deal not that dissimilar to the one he abruptly axed, if it hopes to effectively address the city's pension liability. These folks will be in office for 4 years, which is enough time for the public to witness the consequences of mismanagement. ETA: I was chatting with someone today who knows the Cranley family well, and who said John Cranley's been a "brat" all of his life!
December 8, 201311 yr I also think we need to start including Winburn, Murray, and Smitherman in the list of people to lobby. I sensed resentment from Murray during the meetings last week. Writing any of the off as irrational won't help our case. I doubt we'll change any minds but if we push their buttons they're sure to push back.
December 8, 201311 yr I also think we need to start including Winburn, Murray, and Smitherman in the list of people to lobby. I sensed resentment from Murray during the meetings last week. Writing any of the off as irrational won't help our case. I doubt we'll change any minds but if we push their buttons they're sure to push back. They won't be able to say "nobody is for the streetcar" Well, ok, they will, but...
December 8, 201311 yr To urbanpioneer: There's something decidedly ominous in Cranley's character that goes beyond his simply behaving like a "brat." His complete unwillingness to compromise and serve as the Mayor of ALL Cincinnati (which he IS, and should act as, whether he likes it or not!) reveals an underlying toxic, even malignant, quality. There isn't a hint in this man of kindness, diplomacy, graciousness, generosity of spirit or willingness to listen to all sides in an argument. He does nothing to make all people feel he is THEIR mayor, first and foremost, putting that above all issues. His manner is beyond rude, arrogant and closed-minded. Dictatorial is more like it. We are witnessing a complex psychological drama unfolding in this man - the Streetcar per se means nothing to Cranley personally; he has no need for it - it simply served as a wedge issue he could use to get his way with the voters and get into office more or less beneath the radar. Unfortunately, a great many forward-thinking voters played into his hands during this election by not bothering to vote, because - my guess, anyway - is that they couldn't imagine how a man like Cranley could actually be elected. Now everyone is stuck with the very unfortunate consequence resulting from their overconfidence and inaction. Most people thought that the decency that Mayor Mallory brought to his office would naturally be continued in Qualls' administration. What an enormous contrast in quality between Mallory and Cranley; it's breathtaking to contemplate! Cranley strikes me as being a very deeply insecure man who has seized power and is now telling the world in no uncertain terms that HE's the one in charge. He may end up doing a lot of harm before all is said and done. The streetcar just happened to be his first major casualty. Those who voted for Cranley may well find their decision come back to haunt them.
December 8, 201311 yr I have no doubt Cranley will do ANYTHING to waste millions of dollars of the city of Cincininati taxpayers money, aka cancel the streetcar. What I can't figure out is why. Facts have no affect. It's as if he is the president of the flat-earth society. The certain onslaught of crushing debt has no affect. The prospect of years of expensive legal battles which will only add to that debt, has no affect. The layoff of hundreds of tax paying workers has no affect. The loss of $47 million dollars in federal funds, which is in essence our own money, has no affect. It should be political suicide for him to seek to cancel the streetcar. Doing so would remove his scapegoat for the next four years. Anything that is wrong with the city would be able to be blamed on the continuation of the streetcar he hates so much. Or does he hate it? Is he opposing it in order to allow it to continue in the end, knowing he needs it as a reason to do a crappy job, but still get by because the streetcars caused our pension hole. the streetcar caused our unemployment. The streetcar caused global warming, The streetcar caused crime to increase. the streetcar caused me to gain weight. On and on and on. No streetcar, no scapegoat. He would be all on his own to actually make things work. If he can.
December 8, 201311 yr To TheCOV - please forgive my bringing in the grammar and spelling police to comment on your good post: the word you mean to use here is "EFFECT," not "affect." This is a common mistake a lot of us make. It helps to know that when we say or do something to somebody which causes them to change their mind, for example, we have AFFECTED, meaning influenced, modified, changed ..... their thinking. Conversely, when we try to change a person's thinking on a subject but fail to do so, we can say that our efforts had no EFFECT on their thinking. So that's why you must say "Facts have no EFFECT (meaning, no IMPACT, no INFLUENCE) .... on the mayor's thinking, I assume you're saying. Same applies to all the other instances in your comment above where you used "affect" to mean "effect."
December 8, 201311 yr To TheCOV - please forgive my bringing in the grammar and spelling police to comment on your good post: the word you mean to use here is "EFFECT," not "affect." This is a common mistake a lot of us make. It helps to know that when we say or do something to somebody which causes them to change their mind, for example, we have AFFECTED, meaning influenced, modified, changed ..... their thinking. Conversely, when we try to change a person's thinking on a subject but fail to do so, we can say that our efforts had no EFFECT on their thinking. So that's why you must say "Facts have no EFFECT (meaning, no IMPACT, no INFLUENCE) .... on the mayor's thinking, I assume you're saying. Same applies to all the other instances in your comment above where you used "affect" to mean "effect." N/P Joe. I know. It's the result of fat fingers typing quickly on tiny devices. Throw in an extremely long work day on no sleep and autocorrect....and that's what you get. Thank god it was a casual post. I assure you a resume wouldn't suffer as such. Ah, who am I kidding. I gave up on resumes years ago, and only work for myself now. Let's keep the conversation about the biggest waste of taxpayer dollars at the hands of J.C. going.
December 8, 201311 yr I'm with you, theCOV, it's a tragic waste all around. Goes to show how dysfunctional our country has become. Very many more of these crazy acts involving canceling transit projects under construction and our federal government will cease funding them altogether. There's no question that this stunt in Cincinnati has already set in motion a new precedent legitimizing such acts of civic vandalism which, I predict, we'll soon see copied all across the country. Cincinnati has just handed anti-transit forces everywhere powerful new ammunition.
December 8, 201311 yr Probably a question for John Schneider, but I hope/guess that the pro-streetcar powers are working to gather commitments of financial support from local groups or companies should the cost to cancel study show a gap. For example, the cost to cancel is $5M less than the cost to complete, gathering enough support to say "we can fill the shortfall with private funding" might go a long way to sway Councilors on the fence.
December 8, 201311 yr Turns out it's on the schedule at 6:00 AM today so I missed it, but I saw a tweet that PG Sittenfeld was slated to appear on Local 12's Newsmakers with Dan Hurley to discuss the streetcar. It'll probably be available online tomorrow. Should be interesting. ETA: I think it may be on Ch. 20 at 10:30 AM today
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