Its all anti streetcar people talking tomorrow.    Odds are overwhelmingly against it being positive news for the streetcar.

 

Hope for the best but expect the worst

That's actually a great sign for us. That means that even Cranley is aware that the momentum has shifted. Otherwise, he wouldn't bother with such an obvious ploy to sway those that have police and fire as their #1 issue. We need to keep the heat turned up!

Yes please - which Chris!  I want to go to bed.

 

Sorry. Chris Seelbach is correct. The Charter Amendment we're circulating petitions for requires such an entity to be formed, but that hasn't happened yet. Having said that, it is definitely doable if everyone pulls together. And they will.

As far as I'm concerned, Cranley is NOT TO BE TRUSTED under any circumstances!

 

The man is next to evil in his seeming lack of morals and malevolent intentions - he'll stoop as low as he has to, to achieve his objective that the streetcar be no more come December 19.

 

He's as Machiavellian as they come! Please ignore anything and everything Cranley puts out there! His utterances will be nothing more or less than snares and delusions designed to deceive and

lull us streetcar supporters into a sense of false complacency.

 

We can't afford to fall - a second time - into complacency. Rather, we must redouble our efforts to collect as many signatures as we can.

 

He totally blew whatever chance he had to earn our trust by how he conducted himself at City Council, manipulating the agenda and sneering at the public during the "pause the streetcar" hearings

and votes after being sworn in. 

 

Pay no attention whatsoever to what Cranley says tomorrow other than view it as evidence to what lengths he'll go to get his way. Put bluntly, he's a snake in man's clothing.

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

Perhaps he's going to spin it as with this funding I have found I'm preserveing x amount of public safety jobs for 30 years. If this is the case, while I personally don't trust him, it does make a decent out for him and doesn't leave him wrecked politically for life.  I'm just not sure he's that smart.

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

 

Cranley has apparently persuaded the unions that the streetcar is or will take their jobs and they fell for it. Do not be swayed or deterred. Keep getting more signatures.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2013/12/what-will-cranley-say-about-the.html?ana=twt

 

Sure sounds like Cranley is going to say something to the effect of

 

'The operating costs will be devastating to our public safety'

 

 

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

 

Cranley has apparently persuaded the unions that the streetcar is or will take their jobs and they fell for it. Do not be swayed or deterred. Keep getting more signatures.

 

The unions in cincinnati are odd.

 

They endorse quite a bit of tea partiers and republicans.  Bizarre

yeah, signature = pink slip is most likely

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

 

Yes, we believe this is about suppressing the signature-gathering.

 

Cranley has apparently persuaded the unions that the streetcar is or will take their jobs and they fell for it. Do not be swayed or deterred. Keep getting more signatures.

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

 

Cranley has apparently persuaded the unions that the streetcar is or will take their jobs and they fell for it. Do not be swayed or deterred. Keep getting more signatures.

 

The unions in cincinnati are odd.

 

They endorse quite a bit of tea partiers and republicans.  Bizarre

 

I wouldn't say it's odd. FOP and firefighters in a lot places have tended to vote Republican because they like "law and order" candidates. That has changed as Tea Party Repubs have shown a penchant for throwing them under the bus, as they do other groups.

 

What puzzles me are the Union heads being there.

 

My guess is Cranley  will say something to the effect o operating costs and capital costs have robbed our cops and ff of money

 

Yes, we believe this is about suppressing the signature-gathering.

 

Cranley has apparently persuaded the unions that the streetcar is or will take their jobs and they fell for it. Do not be swayed or deterred. Keep getting more signatures.

 

If he goes that route and Uses the cops and ff as political pawns to make a political point….Where have we heard this before?

 

Oh yes from John Cranley when he accused Mark Mallory of doing the exact same thing with the parking deal(And in numerous debates/campaign sound bytes)

http://www.wcpo.com/news/political/local-politics/mayor-union-leaders-private-donations-for-streetcar-must-have-assurances

 

Cranley "Private donations for streetcar must have assurances"

 

Cranley is demanding that the operating costs be covered by private money for 30 years in a legally binding way and not take away from the general fund.

 

Thats why the union heads are there.

 

Has anyone heard of any system in the country that operates this way?

If it's true that Cranely wants private donations to cover nearly 100% of the operating costs, then it only seems fair that these donors are entitled to the money the city will get from the ROI of the system.

If it's true that Cranely wants private donations to cover nearly 100% of the operating costs, then it only seems fair that these donors are entitled to the money the city will get from the ROI of the system.

 

That's why we need to keep getting signatures, and after that is successful, keep pushing for the SID to cover operations funding.  Sittenfeld's suggestion of the SID is not only equitable and good policy, I believe it will help encourage other policy changes which are essential for the entire streetcar project.  One part is the lack of required parking for new development; already passed by the previous council.  A SID that has the operational costs covered by the adjacent property owners will encourage such property owners to maximize the revenue their real estate produces- i.e. density.  We are basically re-constructing a whole new social/political fabric here.

91.7 WVXU ‏@917wvxu 2m

Mayor says needs guarantee of 80 million for operating expenses and then city will spend dollars to complete 1st phase of project

 

Jason Williams ‏@jwilliamscincy 1m

Cranley: There are conversations with significant players who have resources who are open to a conversation.

 

Question.... The streetcar won't turn a wheel for 18 months +/-. Cranley has plenty of time to find sponsors of the operating costs. Why the rush to find sponsors now?

I'd think the only way a private source would offer to fund operations is if they were entitled to collect on increased property tax returns within a certain distance of the streetcar.

 

Of course that's basically be the same general concept as the parking deal that Cranley hated so much...

Flynn's language during the press conference was interesting. When speaking of the future, he said "When the streetcar is built..." and not "If the streetcar is built..."

 

It _appears_ that Flynn is seeking a move that would provide him cover for a yes vote in a week.

 

That being said, I'm off now to pick up a petition on Court street.

I'd think the only way a private source would offer to fund operations is if they were entitled to collect on increased property tax returns within a certain distance of the streetcar.

 

Of course that's basically be the same general concept as the parking deal that Cranley hated so much...

 

They are discussing an underwriting guarantee - an insurance policy - not an offer to fund. In other words, the funds would be taken only if other sources did not materialize. And based on Flynn's statement that "if the streetcar is as successful as many people believe, or hope, then there won't be any need for other sources of operating funds" -- it seems that the arrangement would be open to using city funds for operating expenses, so long as they could be identified as being associated with increased property tax receipts tied to the streetcar. This could be encoded using a defined area and a base year of property valuation.

 

^ If this underwriting guarantee is all true and comes to fruition, this is good because the streetcar gets built, but bad because this hands Cranley a huge win.  He will basically get a streetcar (and all the development) for the price of bond interest.  He not only gets to say that the streetcar got built on his watch, but that he stood up for the neighborhoods and didn't let the fire/police/etc get funding cut.

 

It's shrewd.  Man, this guy.

Streetcars and Recovery

 

An Analysis of Post-Katrina Building Permits around New Orleans Streetcar Lines

Andrew Guthrie, Humphrey School of Public Affairs, University of Minnesota, 295 Humphrey Center, 301 19th Ave S, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA. Email: [email protected]

 

Abstract

 

Researching traditional streetcars’ development impacts is challenging: most U.S. lines operate in downtown areas with many development stimuli. This article addresses that challenge through analysis of New Orleans building permits after Hurricane Katrina. We estimate how post-Katrina permit frequency changes with distance from streetcar stops, controlling for damage, proximity to commercial areas, and pre-Katrina demographics. We find that distance to stops strongly predicts building permits. Residential permits increase with distance to stops; commercial permits decrease. Findings confirm streetcars support commercial development, yet suggest potential displacement of residential uses. Implications for future streetcar projects in New Orleans and elsewhere are discussed.

 

 

http://jpe.sagepub.com/content/33/4/381.full?keytype=ref&siteid=spjpe&ijkey=igfNxzZJRHzBs

I think this would have been a fair "compromise" if $0 had been spent to date on this project.  However, when you consider all the $$$ that Cranley is willing to throw away on this project by cancelling it, it doesn't seem like a fair compromise at all.

 

I appreciate Cranley/Flynn/etc., in finally putting aside their differences and are willing to work on some sort of compromise, but I don't know if this is the exact deal that is fair to all parties. 

 

However, you would also think that if everyone (supporters and opponents) set aside their differences and are were willing to work toward solving the operating cost issues, this CAN be worked out. 

^ If this underwriting guarantee is all true and comes to fruition, this is good because the streetcar gets built, but bad because this hands Cranley a huge win.  He will basically get a streetcar (and all the development) for the price of bond interest.  He not only gets to say that the streetcar got built on his watch, but that he stood up for the neighborhoods and didn't let the fire/police/etc get funding cut.

 

It's shrewd.  Man, this guy.

 

Shrewd enough that he made you forget that no one is getting laid off because of the streetcar. It already has a sound operating plan, although Cincinnati must guarantee the operating funding if fares, sponsorships, advertising, etc. come up short. That is necessary in order to secure the federal funding. That will not change with what Cranley has announced. All that has changed is that Cranley says he will get additional partners to sign on the dotted line be a contrived deadline. But the city must still be the ultimate guarantor to please their federal investor.

 

BTW....

 

German Lopez ‏@germanrlopez 11m

Eric Avner of Haile Foundation seems very, very optimistic about streetcar's chances now.

The man is either a political savant, being tutored by one, or is extremely lucky.  He turned a lose-lose situation into a win-win, and he is making everyone else do all the work.  If I didn't despise him so much I would buy him a beer.

^ If this underwriting guarantee is all true and comes to fruition, this is good because the streetcar gets built, but bad because this hands Cranley a huge win.  He will basically get a streetcar (and all the development) for the price of bond interest.  He not only gets to say that the streetcar got built on his watch, but that he stood up for the neighborhoods and didn't let the fire/police/etc get funding cut.

 

It's shrewd.  Man, this guy.

 

Don't fall into the simplistic trap of McConnell logic: i.e. a win for a political opponent is a loss for us.  Getting the streetcar project to happen is a win for Cincinnati and a positive thing, period.

 

Two things: (1) Keep pushing for the SID and other legal changes that promote the urbanism and sustainable living the streetcar is meant to foster. (2) Don't forget this guy's record of incompetence: an inability to preside over meetings, constantly misrepresenting his record, a pathological antagonism toward working colleageally, contempt for his nominal allies.  This guy has hurt his reputation immensely because he's never before had the prominence that caused people to pay attention to him.  His above mentioned qualities are known to all now.  Govern yourselves accordingly.

back around, I don't know, page 453?, Mallory instructed Dohoney to find operating funds that would not affect any other city services & Dohoney did that with casino revenue & parking revenue, etc.

Now it appears that is gone or never existed. Did I miss something? Was I dreaming?

^ If this underwriting guarantee is all true and comes to fruition, this is good because the streetcar gets built, but bad because this hands Cranley a huge win.  He will basically get a streetcar (and all the development) for the price of bond interest.  He not only gets to say that the streetcar got built on his watch, but that he stood up for the neighborhoods and didn't let the fire/police/etc get funding cut.

 

It's shrewd.  Man, this guy.

 

Don't fall into the simplistic trap of McConnell logic: i.e. a win for a political opponent is a loss for us.  Getting the streetcar project to happen is a win for Cincinnati and a positive thing, period.

 

Two things: (1) Keep pushing for the SID and other legal changes that promote the urbanism and sustainable living the streetcar is meant to foster. (2) Don't forget this guy's record of incompetence: an inability to preside over meetings, constantly misrepresenting his record, a pathological antagonism toward working colleageally, contempt for his nominal allies.  This guy has hurt his reputation immensely because he's never before had the prominence that caused people to pay attention to him.  His above mentioned qualities are known to all now.  Govern yourselves accordingly.

 

Yeah, like I said, it's good because the streetcar gets built.  It's bad because the average voter will see this as Cranley getting a (seemingly, at this point) "better" deal than the previous council achieved, and it will get built during his term.  He's going to look great in the eyes of the suburban conservatives.  He'll have a feather in his hat that - to the average voter - will obscure many of the things you mention.  And when Wenstrup's up for re-election, Cranley can point to a high-profile project that got done on his watch.

 

I won't be at all surprised to see a quiet push to get this done before the All-Star game.  Cranley will get to toot his horn on the national stage.  And mixing baseball and politics?  West-siders will wet themselves.

back around, I don't know, page 453?, Mallory instructed Dohoney to find operating funds that would not affect any other city services & Dohoney did that with casino revenue & parking revenue, etc.

Now it appears that is gone or never existed. Did I miss something? Was I dreaming?

 

Yes that really happened.  Somehow everybody forgot.  And nobody seemed to ever realize that $4 million is only 1% of a $380 annual operating budget.

I think this is an ends and means issue. If the streetcar gets built and is a success, yet Cranley gets credit for it, Cincinnati will still be in a far better place than it was ten years ago. Even better would be if he somehow wins Westsiders over to the idea of an expanded system.

It's unbelievable that he keeps talking about the operating cost and not mentioning any of the benefits. And the local media keeps letting him get away with it. The entire reason that this project was proposed in the first place is that it has a high ROI because it makes the area surrounding the route a more desirable place for new residents and businesses.

And for his next act, Cranley will get people to recognize charades as an official form of sign language....

700wlw has already turned on Cranley.

 

They excel at eating their own on that station

 

Interesting to note that Smitherman, Winburn and Murray were not at that Cranley press conference.  No doubt in my mind they are furious

Can someone sum this up for me?  I am confused.  Is Cranley now trying to find a way to get the streetcar back on track?  Are Flynn and Mann with him?  I need the Cliff Notes version.

Can someone sum this up for me?  I am confused.  Is Cranley now trying to find a way to get the streetcar back on track?  Are Flynn and Mann with him?  I need the Cliff Notes version.

 

It doesn't matter.  The whole story will shift tomorrow.  It's shifted every single day since Nov 2.

BlackBengal: Cranley "worked out a deal" with an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years...it's a "compromise" to prevent "extra spending out of the operating budget."

 

Either shrewd...or false...but quite interesting nonetheless...

Can someone sum this up for me?  I am confused.  Is Cranley now trying to find a way to get the streetcar back on track?  Are Flynn and Mann with him?  I need the Cliff Notes version.

 

Sounds to me like he is trying to save face with the business community that favors completion of the project.  Flynn is definitely with him, and Mann said that agrees with Cranley and he would have been in attendance, but had a prior obligation in court.

 

I honestly don't care how this makes Cranley look.  We are stuck with him for the next four years.  If this "deal" helps complete the project then I am okay with it, even if it makes Cranley look like the savior.  I hope that it is not just Cranley trying to make it look like he is willing to compromise, while still fully intending on torpedoing the project down the road.  I think it is interesting to note that Cranley said if a deal is struck to fund the operating expenses, he will "try to compromise" to complete construction.

 

It's going to be very difficult to gather enough support to have a plan for funding the operating expenses in the next 7 days.  If Cranley is actually going to try to get the Feds to extend their deadline to Dec. 31, it still sounds like a very ambitious and difficult task.  We shall see.

^Exactly why we need to continue with the signature collection as if nothing happened today.  Council needs to see just how many people support this project.  Do they want to fight this thing for another 2-4 months at a minimum while we wait for a vote, or do they want to move on and start actually running the city?  They're 100% in control of that decision.  The streetcar isn't dying as quickly and quietly as they thought it would, and they aren't being heralded as heroes like they expected. 

 

EDIT:  Also, they should be terrified of the possibility that the federal funding gets yanked and the charter still gets amended.  If they think the road is rocky right now, just wait until they have to find away to replace that funding and explain why they foolishly threw away $45M.

BlackBengal: Cranley "worked out a deal" with an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years...it's a "compromise" to prevent "extra spending out of the operating budget."

 

Either shrewd...or false...but quite interesting nonetheless...

 

Thanks.  The new Enquirer story doesnt say anything about "an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years."  Where does that info come from?

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131212/news/312120035/cranley-making-major-streetcar-announcement-today&nocache=1

Would the unions support demanding a private underwriter for crancellation costs? Because crancellation is what would bi*tch-slap the operating budget.

BlackBengal: Cranley "worked out a deal" with an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years...it's a "compromise" to prevent "extra spending out of the operating budget."

 

Either shrewd...or false...but quite interesting nonetheless...

 

Thanks.  The new Enquirer story doesnt say anything about "an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years."  Where does that info come from?

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131212/news/312120035/cranley-making-major-streetcar-announcement-today&nocache=1

 

Local 12 who is still reporting that private funding is there.  They say the money is already pledged

 

 

Eric Avner is “very, very confident” the private sector will be able to find a solution to the cincinnati streetcar http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-5347-cranley_open_to_private_sector_paying_streetcar_operating_costs.html …

BlackBengal: Cranley "worked out a deal" with an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years...it's a "compromise" to prevent "extra spending out of the operating budget."

 

Either shrewd...or false...but quite interesting nonetheless...

 

Thanks.  The new Enquirer story doesnt say anything about "an anonymous private donor who offered to underwrite streetcar operations for the next 30 years."  Where does that info come from?

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131212/news/312120035/cranley-making-major-streetcar-announcement-today&nocache=1

 

Channel 12 reported that last night. I think a more accurate way of reporting it is that pledges from multiple sponsors are being sought to cover the operating cost for 30 years.

 

BTW, All Aboard Ohio has a summary of recent news, the petition language, the ROI study from 2007, and other resources available at:

 

http://allaboardohio.org/2013/12/12/cincy-streetcar-future-looks-brighter/

Ryan Messer is going to appear on Cunningham's show at 1pm.  He's going to get bulldozed. 

It has to be a ploy. The area does not have that many donors when you consider. Music hall needs a overhaul, Union terminal needs an overhaul, the Western hills viaduct needs an overhaul. Why could they not fund police in this way? Im sorry to say but they will not get the commitment they wanted by next week. The city better hope two members change their votes.

Ryan Messer is going to appear on Cunningham's show at 1pm.  He's going to get bulldozed. 

 

Any summary?

Now would be good time for everyone to step back and listen carefully, temper the nastiness and speculation on social media and let this play out.

 

There a solution here if we don't trip over ourselves.

 

We'll get there.

It has to be a ploy. The area does not have that many donors when you consider. Music hall needs a overhaul, Union terminal needs an overhaul, the Western hills viaduct needs an overhaul. Why could they not fund police in this way? Im sorry to say but they will not get the commitment they wanted by next week. The city better hope two members change their votes.

 

It's definitely a ploy but judging from what I've been reading from supporters and local 12, the private money may be there.  We'll see

Now would be good time for everyone to step back and listen carefully, temper the nastiness and speculation on social media and let this play out.

 

There a solution here if we don't trip over ourselves.

 

We'll get there.

 

Thank you for everything you've done.  Sounds like your meeting with Cranley was productive. 

Ryan Messer is going to appear on Cunningham's show at 1pm.  He's going to get bulldozed. 

 

Any summary?

 

I could only catch part of it.  But as far as what I was able to hear I thought Ryan did well, considering how mendacious Cunningham can be.  For instance, he badgered Ryan about the ballot language, perpetuating the myth that streetcar SUPPORTERS crafted the previous 2 anti-streetcar ballot issues!  Unfortunately Ryan's late to the game and didn't correct him on this lie.  Cunningham surely knows his dear friend Chris Finney and his fellow COAST members wrote the language of the previous ballot issues.  If voters were confused it's COAST's fault.  WE know this.  Yet he continues to misinform people.  I can only SMH...

 

Also, Cunningham kept harping on $5M or more/year in operating costs, when the actual estimate has been less, again misinforming his listeners. 

 

Shame shame shame on Bill Cunningham.  He performs a terrible disservice to his listenership (and the people of Cincinnati in general) by lying to them.

^ Cunningham isn't a reporter.  He's an entertainer.  His job isn't to report facts, it's to appeal to WLW's listeners, all of whom made up their minds long ago.