December 20, 201311 yr ^^^^ I think she is secretly from Cleveland, judging by how she says "eeanswer" at 24:29. Why is this in the streetcsr thread?
December 20, 201311 yr If the Cranley win over Qualls tells us anything (or the We Believe in Cincinnati peition drive), it's woe to those who think they are above campaigning. That was a real Kirk vs. Spock campaign ^ Using people's photos is almost necessary since the media ain't getting any worth a crap. That randy McKnight was bellyachin' about streetcar tracks being like in old times - a PITA for motorists & cyclists (and they were) so I posted a link to pic by a downtown blogger. and everybody reads my comments at the 'Warp....
December 20, 201311 yr Maybe you're right, but your assessment still presumes that campaigning is a bad thing in and of itself. No it doesn't. You can recognize there are pros and cons to both ways. Recognizing that commitment to long-term investments is harder with shorter election cycles is not a statement that campaigning is bad. I guess I just don't see it that way. Every politician on council at the beginning of 2009 was for the Streetcar except Cranley & Monzel. Now you can't be a Republican and be for the streetcar. I see that there was a real change in how "long-term investments" were viewed after 2010; it became fashionable to be against government investment as entirely wasteful, and it became fashionable to beat an issue like a dead horse. When Mallory was running for Mayor in 2005, he criticized 3CDC and such, but he never tried to undo it. That was the old, time-honored way of campaigning. It also tells us that when politicians are in campaign mode it is advantageous to play fast and loose with the facts. The greater amount of time politicians spend campaigning while in office is likely to be proportional to a decrease in the significance of the role of facts in informing their policy decisions. Well, if a politician is apt to no be in "campaign mode" at any time, it would be immediately AFTER their election, but that certainly wasn't what happened here. Let's not forget, this group of politicians had it entirely within their power to take the operations cost off the table (even though it wasn't necessary for two years) by funding it through property taxes of those properties which directly benefit from the investment. And operations costs were supposed to be the major issue here. I certainly didn't see any greater commitment to facts when these same folks voted unanimously to spend $20 million on the MKL/I-75 interchange.
December 20, 201311 yr ^ An interesting point. Since operation costs are forced to be "off the books" that means the increased property and income taxes that come to the city from the project are free to be used for projects anywhere in the city. That's a good way to placate the Mt. Washington, Bond Hill, Westwood, and Sayler Park residents, but it's still in essence a transfer of wealth from the urban core to the periphery, even just peripheral neighborhoods as opposed to the actual urban fringe, which is steadily marching its way out to Lebanon, Goshen, and beyond.
December 20, 201311 yr Folks, learn to enjoy your victories. How can you move forward when you spend so much time looking over your shoulder? What to do some good? Go take some coffee and doughnuts to the workers on Tuesday morning or whenever it is they start working again. Be sure to thank them for their labors in making Cincinnati an even greater city. We CANNOT afford NOT to keep an ever-watchful eye cast over our shoulders, even as we gladly move forward as you, KJP, so rightly urge us to, by offering coffee, doughnuts along with our encouragement and appreciation to our streetcar workers. We must be ever vigilant, as fall 2013's mayoral and city council election has so dramatically taught us - we can't afford to sit back on our laurels and casually allow an opposition candidate (like Cranley, whom we didn't take seriously) to slip in unnoticed beneath our radar, until after we awaken the day following an election only to discover to our great dismay that he's been elected.
December 20, 201311 yr On flip-flopping, liars and why Flynn voted ‘yes’ on the streetcar Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier One thing my story this morning on how the streetcar deal was reached didn’t address was why Kevin Flynn voted “yes” beyond the fact that he was able to strike the deal that he did. Flynn, Vice Mayor David Mann and Councilman P.G. Sittenfeld have been lambasted on 700 WLW-AM and 550 WKRC-AM, the two Clear Channel-owned talk radio stations that are in full, nuclear meltdown mode over council’s decision to restart the project. Flip-floppers and liars are what they are, say several of the hosts on those stations. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/12/on-flip-flopping-liars-and-why-flynn.html
December 20, 201311 yr What's the next milestone for the project? Logic would have it that the next principal milestone for the project will be to have the track, overhead line, power station and car barn/maintenance facility essentially completed, and at least one of the streetcars delivered and under test.
December 20, 201311 yr More near term, I think turning the corner and heading down Race will be a pretty important step... having not seen (in person) the progress since late October until last night, I was surprised how far up Elm they had made it before the pause.
December 20, 201311 yr We CANNOT afford NOT to keep an ever-watchful eye cast over our shoulders, even as we gladly move forward as you, KJP, so rightly urge us to, by offering coffee, doughnuts along with our encouragement and appreciation to our streetcar workers. We must be ever vigilant, as fall 2013's mayoral and city council election has so dramatically taught us - we can't afford to sit back on our laurels and casually allow an opposition candidate (like Cranley, whom we didn't take seriously) to slip in unnoticed beneath our radar, until after we awaken the day following an election only to discover to our great dismay that he's been elected. There's a great line from the 1970s movie "Gumball Rally" -- an Italian race car driver gets into a car he's about to race across the United States. He rips the rearview mirror off the windshield and declares "What is behind me is not important!" EDIT: I'm shocked! YouTube has it!! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 20, 201311 yr More near term, I think turning the corner and heading down Race will be a pretty important step... having not seen (in person) the progress since late October until last night, I was surprised how far up Elm they had made it before the pause. Half a mile I believe
December 21, 201311 yr ^^^^ I think she is secretly from Cleveland, judging by how she says "eeanswer" at 24:29. Why is this in the streetcsr thread? ummmm...because in the clip that I cited, the caller--from Cincinnati--mentioned the streetcar as a news item pertinent to the show's theme of news items. I'm sorry I had the temerity to inject what (at least I thought) was a little levity (sprinkled with a little lighthearted commentary regarding the cultural/political milieu of the state of Ohio) into this very, very serious discussion of the Cincinnati Streetcar, especially as an outsider from the opposite end of the state no longer even living in Ohio. While begging your indulgences, I assure you I will this will not happen again. Everyone have a nice evening :-) http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
December 21, 201311 yr ^^^^ I think she is secretly from Cleveland, judging by how she says "eeanswer" at 24:29. Why is this in the streetcsr thread? ummmm...because in the clip that I cited, the caller--from Cincinnati--mentioned the streetcar as a news item pertinent to the show's theme of news items. I'm sorry I had the temerity to inject what (at least I thought) was a little levity (sprinkled with a little lighthearted commentary regarding the cultural/political milieu of the state of Ohio) into this very, very serious discussion of the Cincinnati Streetcar, especially as an outsider from the opposite end of the state no longer even living in Ohio. While begging your indulgences, I assure you I will this will not happen again. Everyone have a nice evening :-) You're right. I apologize. After listening to the whole segment, I forgot the streetcar was mentioned, since it was rather insignificant.
December 21, 201311 yr 661 pages for this thread. Everything under the sun was debated. The streetcar was dead, then alive, then dead, then alive about a dozen times until finally it rose from the ashes Yesterday's news was a LONG TIME coming. It truly is amazing looking at some of the older posts From the misinformation to Kasich to COAST to ballot initiatives to Shortfalls to delays to Duke Energy delaying to 700wlw to Enquirer drumming up fake controversy for page clicks to Smitherman to all the fake arguments and on and on and on… I got into this topic and thread somewhat late. I can't imagine the whirlwind of emotions you guys who started at the beginning are feeling. It's got to be gratifying. Thanks to each and everyone of you…Natininja, John Schneider, KJP, JMecklonberg, eigthandstate, and the rest I'm forgetting on this forum. You guys have been through the ringer and back. Now its imperative that we make this first line as successful as possible to help change the minds of the doubters. I never thought I'd ever say this but the momentum I'm feeling, and everyone else I've talked to, Cincinnati could be on the verge of doing GREAT things as a city and particularly with its public transit…
December 21, 201311 yr More near term, I think turning the corner and heading down Race will be a pretty important step... having not seen (in person) the progress since late October until last night, I was surprised how far up Elm they had made it before the pause. Sorry, unusualfire, I got ahead of myself in answering your question. Like you, I'll be watching from afar the progress of this wonderful little starter streetcar line as it is built. I assume people in Cincinnati will be keeping a photographic as well as written record of its progress. Please be sure to take some "before-and-after" pictures of the route. Given the drama surrounding this project, and its significance to Cincinnati and beyond, it'd be great to see someone write an illustrated history about it after it's completed. FakeCinEnquirer, I hope we can all now sit back and enjoy seeing this come to fruition without any more interruptions! Once this is built and in operation, it'll be interesting to see how people react to the high level of quality the streetcar is sure to bring to the public's concept of public transit. It's going to be a quantum leap! Will be interesting to see if we hear of other neighborhoods wanting in on this once they get a taste of it.
December 21, 201311 yr ^^^^ I think she is secretly from Cleveland, judging by how she says "eeanswer" at 24:29. Why is this in the streetcsr thread? ummmm...because in the clip that I cited, the caller--from Cincinnati--mentioned the streetcar as a news item pertinent to the show's theme of news items. I'm sorry I had the temerity to inject what (at least I thought) was a little levity (sprinkled with a little lighthearted commentary regarding the cultural/political milieu of the state of Ohio) into this very, very serious discussion of the Cincinnati Streetcar, especially as an outsider from the opposite end of the state no longer even living in Ohio. While begging your indulgences, I assure you I will this will not happen again. Everyone have a nice evening :-) You're right. I apologize. After listening to the whole segment, I forgot the streetcar was mentioned, since it was rather insignificant. and I apologize for being so sarcastic. Well, kind of :laugh: http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
December 21, 201311 yr Don't get too excited yet. We have a long way to go on this. But we'll get there. Boy! I'll say! Was John ever right! Here we are, seven years, twelve days and six hundred sixty-one Forum Pages later, still struggling mightily to get one little starter line built.
December 21, 201311 yr What's the next milestone for the project? Well, before the pause, Race Street track construction was set to begin on December 26 and go until April 1. I suspect it might be delayed a little bit due to the pause, but not very much.
December 21, 201311 yr What John said seven years ago has been my motto for 25+ years. A saying I've used since the 1980s is "Don't believe the train is going to run until you see it on the second day. The first day may have been an illusion." Don't let up until that happens. But at the same time, I don't worry about the opposition. If you have a goal, pursue it with focus and flexibility and force the opposition to catch up to you. Put them on the defensive by your own success. If you did a great job pursuing your goal, the opposition may never catch up to you. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 201311 yr Google Maps has a nice new beta with a beautiful 3D aerial mode. Since the streetcar is back under construction, here it is with all the stops:
December 21, 201311 yr We're in the running for a "Streesie" award for "Most Kick-Ass Grassroots Movement for Livable Streets" VOTE FOR CINCINNATI: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/12/20/streetsie-awards-peoples-choice-vote-for-the-best-and-worst-of-2013/
December 21, 201311 yr It's no surprise that the Letters To The Editor section on the Enquirer's website has letters ranging on the streetcar, including this gem from a Sharonville resident: "Crime in OTR will kill streetcar" http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2013/12/20/crime-in-otr-will-kill-streetcar/
December 21, 201311 yr :-o If I weren't keenly aware of the levels of insanity in the suburban WLW crowd, I'd think that LTE was some form of internet-based abstract performance art....
December 21, 201311 yr Im so glad the streetcar is back on. I really think the streetcar should go uptown to Cliffton. But I think after that point it should be light rail going north. The streetcar should expand only in OTR, downtown, and Northern Kentucky
December 21, 201311 yr It's no surprise that the Letters To The Editor section on the Enquirer's website has letters ranging on the streetcar, including this gem from a Sharonville resident: "Crime in OTR will kill streetcar" http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2013/12/20/crime-in-otr-will-kill-streetcar/ Now that the issue has been decided we are seeing that the huddle has broken and the 'Warp is lining up for it's next play from scrimmage. Hyper analysis of progress, budgets and crime stats within 3 blocks of the lines. The play is called "Righty 81 suburbanite draw". Meanwhile, MLK will be ignored until it opens and will be hailed. You watch.
December 21, 201311 yr Im so glad the streetcar is back on. I really think the streetcar should go uptown to Cliffton. But I think after that point it should be light rail going north. The streetcar should expand only in OTR, downtown, and Northern Kentucky Spur to TS Bridge. To Newport with E-W alignment from Dayton to Covy. Make it happen Southbank! I can see a trans-river system creating huge ridership.
December 21, 201311 yr Google Maps has a nice new beta with a beautiful 3D aerial mode. Since the streetcar is back under construction, here it is with all the stops: Is there any current route POV videos? I couldn't find any with a quick search on Youtube.
December 21, 201311 yr OT - Invest in Neighborhoods is trying to piggyback on the civic momentum of the streetcar activism. Dunno if anybody foresaw this as a benefit to the city at large. Let's Continue the Drive The past couple of weeks have seen an exercise of citizen engagement unlike anything Cincinnati has experienced in recent memory. Historically at the neighborhood level, we tend to see a significant increase in participation when issues that touch self interest are being debated. To be sure, the streetcar debate did for some involve self interest, but for many, many more (on both sides of the issue), it was a matter of what they felt was best for the future of our city. Many of those had not ever before spoken or acted publicly on an issue of such importance. It's apparent to us there's a whole lot of passion about Cincinnati throughout the city. This passion, if pointed in the right directions, can benefit every neighborhood in the city. http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=49731267b0653f0284fac45de&id=7c2aabffdb http://www.investinneighborhoods.com/
December 21, 201311 yr Google Maps has a nice new beta with a beautiful 3D aerial mode. Since the streetcar is back under construction, here it is with all the stops: Is there any current route POV videos? I couldn't find any with a quick search on Youtube. Channel 12 has one…I'll look for it Jake has one as well that the enquirer stole
December 21, 201311 yr http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/cincinnati-have-streetcar-6371.shtml Anyone have just the video without the talking?
December 21, 201311 yr Yesterday's news was a LONG TIME coming. It truly is amazing looking at some of the older posts I got into this topic and thread somewhat late. I can't imagine the whirlwind of emotions you guys who started at the beginning are feeling. It's got to be gratifying. Thanks to each and everyone of you…Natininja, John Schneider, KJP, JMecklonberg, eigthandstate, and the rest I'm forgetting on this forum. You guys have been through the ringer and back. Now its imperative that we make this first line as successful as possible to help change the minds of the doubters. The very first non-elected new people involved in this were, by my recollection, people from Mallory's Young Professionals Kitchen Cabinet. Some of those people are still around town but for the most part they just showed up to a few meetings back in 2007. The two people who actually started doing something were Brad Thomas and Randy Simes. They were actually out physically doing stuff, not just sitting on the computer, in the closing months of 2006 and in early 2007. I moved back to town in fall of 2007 and first attended an event in late 2007 or early 2008. Here's one of the first Cincinnati Enquirer articles on the streetcar, from 2008, and by (cue scary music) Peter Bronson: Streetcars don't boost neighborhoods 12:05 AM, May 1, 2008 Empty all the soup kitchens and drug rehab centers, then round up all the homeless guys, panhandlers and drug dealers, and there still won't be enough riders in Over-the-Rhine to make a streetcar break even. "At $1 fares, running six days a week and 14 hours a day, it would require 264 riders an hour," Councilman Chris Monzel said in a streetcar debate at a Norwood bar Monday evening. Monzel, an engineer, has a spreadsheet of numbers to prove it. It shows that even if fares are doubled, it would take 132 riders per hour to raise the $1.15 million required. "I'm just not seeing 200 people per hour walking around Downtown to get on this thing," he told a packed meeting of the Blue Chip Young Republicans, who sponsored the debate. READ MORE AT: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20080501/COL05/805010316 KJP: edited to comply with copyright laws.
December 21, 201311 yr There is so much doubt and disbelief in that old article that turned out to be the complete opposite of what happened that I actually think Bronson wasn't just being doubtful. There is a point at which you have to stop patronizing people for their wrong predictions as just "having a different point of view." Let's face it: they're incompetent. They cannot be trusted with planning for the future and investing in the right things for the community because they lack the ability to do so.
December 21, 201311 yr That's a wonderful sad recollection if the slog this project has weathered. It also made me happy to think how I've been able to forget Bronson.
December 21, 201311 yr Im so glad the streetcar is back on. I really think the streetcar should go uptown to Cliffton. But I think after that point it should be light rail going north. The streetcar should expand only in OTR, downtown, and Northern Kentucky The streetcar infrastructure is being built to light-rail standards. The two systems are compatible, interoperable or whatever cooperative word is preferred. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html
December 21, 201311 yr This week in screenshots: Cranley comparing himself to John F. Kennedy: Raised? 3 times? Streetcar headline with GIANT CAR DEALERSHIP BANNER AD:
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html You can't force people to recognize their own ignorance, or to experience their entire city and gain a greater awareness of it. Some people just like to be afraid or want everything to be the same. That's their right. And to enjoy that right, they can stay in their suburban settings locked in their houses and cars. But don't prevent those of us who love cities from designing them and enjoying them the way we want to. It's awfully oppressive for suburbanites to deny us our pursuit of happiness. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html The xavier basketball site has a large thread on it too(744 posts) http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?26334-Cincinnati-Streetcar-Yay-or-Nay The sooner people stop listening to 700wlw, the better. They are out of control with the misinformation
December 21, 201311 yr It's not like we drive 40 miles out to some exurb somewhere and try to stop them from putting in new ball fields.
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html You can't force people to recognize their own ignorance, or to experience their entire city and gain a greater awareness of it. Some people just like to be afraid or want everything to be the same. That's their right. And to enjoy that right, they can stay in their suburban settings locked in their houses and cars. But don't prevent those of us who love cities from designing them and enjoying them the way we want to. It's awfully oppressive for suburbanites to deny us our pursuit of happiness. The only thing I object to is that the urbanists in their pursuit of happiness want to deny all of us suburbanities our own pursuit of happiness. Far as I am concerned, let the greater majority in numbers prevail.
December 21, 201311 yr brill...if you really believe that then you're not only a moron but an asshole too.
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html You can't force people to recognize their own ignorance, or to experience their entire city and gain a greater awareness of it. Some people just like to be afraid or want everything to be the same. That's their right. And to enjoy that right, they can stay in their suburban settings locked in their houses and cars. But don't prevent those of us who love cities from designing them and enjoying them the way we want to. It's awfully oppressive for suburbanites to deny us our pursuit of happiness. The only thing I object to is that the urbanists in their pursuit of happiness want to deny all of us suburbanities our own pursuit of happiness. Far as I am concerned, let the greater majority in numbers prevail. ^ I am unaware of this. Who supposedly feels this way?
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html You can't force people to recognize their own ignorance, or to experience their entire city and gain a greater awareness of it. Some people just like to be afraid or want everything to be the same. That's their right. And to enjoy that right, they can stay in their suburban settings locked in their houses and cars. But don't prevent those of us who love cities from designing them and enjoying them the way we want to. It's awfully oppressive for suburbanites to deny us our pursuit of happiness. The only thing I object to is that the urbanists in their pursuit of happiness want to deny all of us suburbanities our own pursuit of happiness. Far as I am concerned, let the greater majority in numbers prevail. Except Kjbrill, American suburbs owe their entire existence to federal subsidies. The FHA enabled 30-year fully amortized mortgages, enabled the mass-production of housing in the peculiarly American subdivision form by assuming the builder's risk. This started as a make-work New Deal program in 1936 and it's still around, 75 years later, wildly perverting the housing market and wildly perverting the country's culture. People really want to believe that suburbs are "capitalism" and cities are "subsidized", but the reality is everything built up until the 1930s is what largely unmitigated capitalism looked like. Many 2-family and 4-families, relatively few free-standing houses, hardly any with more than two bedrooms. This was subsidized by the FHA -- its construction, its mortgages, and everyone enjoys a mortgage write-off: This is what capitalism looks like:
December 21, 201311 yr Still to this day it's amazing how much misinformation there is around the streetcar. Just reading on the other site and it took everything I had not to chime in. According to them, panhandlers will be overtaking the streetcar. Never mine the fact that there will be fares. http://csnbbs.com/thread-668191.html You can't force people to recognize their own ignorance, or to experience their entire city and gain a greater awareness of it. Some people just like to be afraid or want everything to be the same. That's their right. And to enjoy that right, they can stay in their suburban settings locked in their houses and cars. But don't prevent those of us who love cities from designing them and enjoying them the way we want to. It's awfully oppressive for suburbanites to deny us our pursuit of happiness. The only thing I object to is that the urbanists in their pursuit of happiness want to deny all of us suburbanities our own pursuit of happiness. Far as I am concerned, let the greater majority in numbers prevail. Luckily you said that here. Now we have a record of this statement so that we can choose you as one of the first ones to be rounded up, stuffed into a 100-story condo building and have your house bulldozed. And the traffic flow in the condo building is going to be terrible.
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