It definitely isn't walkable to go from Findlay Market to Smale Riverfront and back on a consistent basis if at all.

 

With the streetcar, it is hey, come live here, all of these amazing spots are all here on this map, and you can hop on the train that goes by every 10 minutes for $1.50, and get there in 8 minutes, no car needed!

 

 

I agree that the streetcar will be useful for going from pole to pole, but I have a hard time picturing myself using it for any shorter a distance.  If you want to go from Fountain Square to Washington Park, would you walk the 6-7 blocks, or wait for a streetcar to come, pay $1.75, and then ride the short distance? I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

I've seen people ride the bus two stops. 

 

I picture office workers at Atrium, Duke, PNC Tower, the Federal Building, the Chiquita Center, and the Chemed Center taking the streetcar to get lunch on Vine or at Findlay.

It definitely isn't walkable to go from Findlay Market to Smale Riverfront and back on a consistent basis if at all.

 

With the streetcar, it is hey, come live here, all of these amazing spots are all here on this map, and you can hop on the train that goes by every 10 minutes for $1.50, and get there in 8 minutes, no car needed!

 

 

I agree that the streetcar will be useful for going from pole to pole, but I have a hard time picturing myself using it for any shorter a distance.  If you want to go from Fountain Square to Washington Park, would you walk the 6-7 blocks, or wait for a streetcar to come, pay $1.75, and then ride the short distance? I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

Good point and I don't disagree with you at all.  But if you were living in the downtown, OTR neighborhood, if you had a monthly pass, and you made the ride from Fountain Square area to Washington Park on a frequent basis, it may be different.  Also I guess it depends on the purpose of the trip, groceries, shopping, etc.  You probably wouldn't want to hump bags for 6 or 7 blocks.

 

I am very bullish on this project.  The only thing I "worry" about is getting more companies to move downtown/otr.  They need to really market the area with everything they have, and some companies need to take a risk.

 

 

^ I might not be the target rider for the streetcar, because I enjoy walking. I think nothing of walking from my friend's apartment at 6th and Greenup in Covington to 13th and Vine.  Our block sizes are small, all of Downtown/OTR is relatively flat, we've got a bevy of architectural and natural beauty to observe along the way, and most of our streets are pretty narrow.  These factors make for a pleasant walking environment downtown. 

 

I like to use transit for trips that exceed what I can walk to comfortably.  Going up the hill to Uptown is thus extremely appealing to me, as the hill presents a natural barrier that I wouldn't be inclined to tackle on foot unless I had no other choice.  The mega blocks in Uptown also lack the pedestrian orientation that much of the basin neighborhoods possess, so I also think that transit could be extra helpful for navigating that area.  I'm very much pro-streetcar as I think it is the first step towards a regional transportation network, but the initial line itself just doesn't do much to excite me.  It will be very helpful for the elderly, handicapped, and lazy residents and visitors in the core, though.

The average trip length on modern streetcars in the United States is 1.1 miles.

I've seen people ride the bus two stops. 

I've seen young healthy people go from one stop to the next.

and pay cash

Don't underestimate just  how lazy some people can be.  Walking around downtown can be pretty unpleasant when it's wet and cold, and it's usually windy in those circumstances too.  I can definitely see a lot of people doing one-way trips, where say they walk a long distance to Findlay Market or some other attraction, but after a long evening or with a bunch of groceries or other things to carry, they'll take the streetcar back. 

One of the biggest things we can do is keep an eye out on what is being said and done by opponents in regards to this project.

 

There are a lot of people who are actively rooting for the project to fail and there are a handful of people in positions of power doing everything  they can to make it fail.  We've seen what can happen when these people win the Public Debate(Mahogany's). We can't let that happen to the streetcar

 

Although its improved dramatically,We've still got quite a bit of PR to do.

I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

So like 40% of the time in Cincinnati.

It definitely isn't walkable to go from Findlay Market to Smale Riverfront and back on a consistent basis if at all.

 

With the streetcar, it is hey, come live here, all of these amazing spots are all here on this map, and you can hop on the train that goes by every 10 minutes for $1.50, and get there in 8 minutes, no car needed!

 

 

I agree that the streetcar will be useful for going from pole to pole, but I have a hard time picturing myself using it for any shorter a distance.  If you want to go from Fountain Square to Washington Park, would you walk the 6-7 blocks, or wait for a streetcar to come, pay $1.75, and then ride the short distance? I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

Depends on the circumstances.... For example, if you rented a bike at the bike center on the river, wore yourself out a bit, returned the bike, and had to get a few blocks up to Fountain Square or Central Parkway, you might prefer to take the streetcar. Currently it's pretty crazy that you almost can't take a bus from anywhere south of 5th Street to anywhere north of 5th Street (without transferring, but for a short trip who'd do that?). The streetcar will fix that.

Remember, if you're out with a group, you end up doing whatever the lamest, whiniest person in your group wants to do.  That means not walking.  And that means not the bus. 

Overheard someone this morning in otr say 'the streetcar probably won't happen' while looking at utility construction. 

 

Bob Schwartz overhead a man walking down sidewalk on Second Street saying "The Banks is never going to happen." He was directly in front of The Banks.

Here's a look at recent progress on the streetcar project: SLIDESHOW

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Work continued on all aspects of the streetcar over the last two weeks – from the laying of tracks to the construction of the maintenance facility to the manufacture of vehicles.

 

Work on the project will close some streets this weekend. Crews are installing tracks along Race Street in Over-the-Rhine. The Race and Liberty intersection will be shut down until 7 a.m. on Monday, with drivers on Liberty detoured around the site. Cars can still travel south on Race.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/02/21/heres-a-look-at-recent-progress-on.html

I agree that the streetcar will be useful for going from pole to pole, but I have a hard time picturing myself using it for any shorter a distance.  If you want to go from Fountain Square to Washington Park, would you walk the 6-7 blocks, or wait for a streetcar to come, pay $1.75, and then ride the short distance? I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

As a resident of the northeast quadrant of OTR (near Main and 14th), the streetcar will be most useful for me going to the CBD. Currently, if I'm heading to Fountain Square or The Banks, I walk. But that's a long walk (22 minutes according to Google Maps), and is not ideal in bad weather. I will definitely take the streetcar for that type of trip.

 

However, I would probably not take it if I'm heading from my home to somewhere else in OTR. If I'm heading to Findlay Market, I'd essentially have to backtrack (go two blocks south south) to 12th & Main to catch the last northbound stop before it turns left on 12th. Or, I could walk west on Liberty and catch the stop at Liberty and Elm, but it would actually be less walking for me to go directly to Findlay Market.

 

Where the streetcar will be most useful for me for point-to-point stops. I would absolutely take the streetcar from Washington Park to Fountain Square. Or Washington Park to Findlay Market. I would walk if I was only going "one stop" (like Findlay Market to Rhinegeist).

 

And as Jake pointed out, when you're with "normal people", they don't want to walk more than 2-3 city blocks.

Does anyone know when they're going to start on the electrical work?  Will it be on all new poles?  Is there a need for any wiring other than the running wire?  If so, will that be overhead or underground? 

The poles will be new. I wouldn't expect to see any wires this year. You kinda don't want a lot of copper wire sitting out there any sooner than you have to. Theft of copper wire has been a big problem with under-construction electric rail projects. The manholes you see between the tracks are either for Cincinnati Bell or for streetcar operations. Cincinnati Bell asked to go between the rails because they figured it was the safest place to be. Smart.

The poles will be new. I wouldn't expect to see any wires this year. You kinda don't want a lot of copper wire sitting out there any sooner than you have to. Theft of copper wire has been a big problem with under-construction electric rail projects. The manholes you see between the tracks are either for Cincinnati Bell or for streetcar operations. Cincinnati Bell asked to go between the rails because they figured it was the safest place to be. Smart.

 

Transit agencies have to keep their overhead wires electrified during the overnight hours in part to keep people from stealing the wire.  Apparently there is a streetcar line in Philadelphia that has been out of operation for a few years due to budget cuts where the lines are kept hot for this reason. 

 

I agree that the streetcar will be useful for going from pole to pole, but I have a hard time picturing myself using it for any shorter a distance.  If you want to go from Fountain Square to Washington Park, would you walk the 6-7 blocks, or wait for a streetcar to come, pay $1.75, and then ride the short distance? I could only see myself not walking if it was pouring rain or excessively hot.

 

As a resident of the northeast quadrant of OTR (near Main and 14th), the streetcar will be most useful for me going to the CBD. Currently, if I'm heading to Fountain Square or The Banks, I walk. But that's a long walk (22 minutes according to Google Maps), and is not ideal in bad weather. I will definitely take the streetcar for that type of trip.

 

However, I would probably not take it if I'm heading from my home to somewhere else in OTR. If I'm heading to Findlay Market, I'd essentially have to backtrack (go two blocks south south) to 12th & Main to catch the last northbound stop before it turns left on 12th. Or, I could walk west on Liberty and catch the stop at Liberty and Elm, but it would actually be less walking for me to go directly to Findlay Market.

 

Where the streetcar will be most useful for me for point-to-point stops. I would absolutely take the streetcar from Washington Park to Fountain Square. Or Washington Park to Findlay Market. I would walk if I was only going "one stop" (like Findlay Market to Rhinegeist).

 

And as Jake pointed out, when you're with "normal people", they don't want to walk more than 2-3 city blocks.

 

I think you brought up a lot of good points on the usefulness of this system.  I live in Pendleton and I could see myself walking down to Main St. to hop on the system and take it the rest of the way to Findley Market or down to the Banks.  Once downtown it will be very useful to take from anywhere in the CBD back to OTR or vice versa.  And you're definitely right about most "normal" people will refuse to walk more than a couple of blocks when in a group. 

Living in OTR and working downtown, I didn't necessarily see myself riding to or from work (even though home and office are within half a block of a stop). The recent cold spell caused me to rethink that assumption.

 

 

Five things you need to know today, and the stupidest anti-streetcar argument yet

Rob Daumeyer Editor- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Streetcar idiocy alert

 

Pardon me while my brain explodes. Here's an argument against the Cincinnati streetcar that I hadn't yet heard: It will kill people. WCPO interviewed two anti-streetcar folks, Michael Patton and Tom Brinkman, who said accidents, maimings and deaths are inevitable when the streetcar starts running in 2016. No word from Patton or Brinkman on whether automobiles – those infamous people killers – should be banned as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/02/five-things-you-need-to-know-today2-25.html?page=2

 

 

 

Of course, since the streetcar is "slower then a jogger", you should be able to avoid it!

Last time I went through the stats, which has been a while, your chances of being killed on or by light rail were approximately equal to you chances of dying by a lightning strike, a bee sting or a skiing accident.

 

About half the deaths on light rail are due to suicides.

 

I'm unaware of any fatality or serious injury on any of the three modern streetcar lines now in operation.

And this is why we love the Cincinnati Business Courier.

The only credible danger that can be associated with streetcars is this the situation that occurs when you have older-style center street running (as opposed to curbside) with no passenger waiting/loading islands.  When a streetcar stops in the center of the street, and the passenger must board from waiting at the curb, or disembark from the streetcar, all automobile traffic in the same direction MUST STOP as soon as the streetcar opens its doors.  In Toronto this is a strictly enforced law and money has been spent educating the public about this.  I believe the US has the same kind of older center-street running without islands in west Philadelphia and parts of San Francisco.  The problem of de-boarding passengers being struck by autos is one reason most cities started switching to trolleybuses in the 1940's.  As far as I know most modern day streetcar projects use curbside running or center-street loading islands to avoid this problem.  If you are driving around, say...Toronto...think of it like this:  treat a streetcar in traffic just like a school bus; same direction-when he opens his doors stop your car.  More about this here:  https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Safety_and_Security/Streetcar_Watch.jsp

About half the deaths on light rail are due to suicides.

They need to investigate why so many people in towns with streetcars want to commit suicide.

About half the deaths on light rail are due to suicides.

They need to investigate why so many people in towns with streetcars want to commit suicide.

 

I-Team Follow up to Quimbob:

 

'If the streetcar wasn't there, they wouldn't be committing suicide by streetcar'

Something is up with the recently welded rail between Liberty & 15th. Its been cut and removed along with the rebar base. Anyone know what's up?

 

It's been a couple months since the streetcar victory. It only seems like a bigger victory now than it did then. I really think that was a pivotal moment in the city's history. Think about how many people would be ready to throw in the towel and get out of the city. Think about the many more who would remain but feel like they had no political agency after such a crushing and illogical defeat. It's kept the optimism alive that we've got something going here. That is priceless.

Something is up with the recently welded rail between Liberty & 15th. Its been cut and removed along with the rebar base. Anyone know what's up?

what else would you expect? Cranley told us they were incompetent.

Of course, since the streetcar is "slower then a jogger", you should be able to avoid it!

 

Hell yes!  Ha how about we add another race to the flying pig...outrun the streetcar!  He'd get the medal everytime.  :)

Of course, since the streetcar is "slower then a jogger", you should be able to avoid it!

 

Hell yes!  Ha how about we add another race to the flying pig...outrun the streetcar!  He'd get the medal everytime.  :)

 

If you're referring to Barry Horstman, he's dead.

Of course, since the streetcar is "slower then a jogger", you should be able to avoid it!

 

Hell yes!  Ha how about we add another race to the flying pig...outrun the streetcar!  He'd get the medal everytime.  :)

 

If you're referring to Barry Horstman, he's dead.

 

Oh Crap I didn't know.  Sorry.

Pres Obama will also announce a $600-million competition for Dept of Transportation grants for "transformative" infrastructure projects....

 

Would be nice if we could get some for the uptown phase of the streetcar.

At first glance I thought it said, "man drives car into masonry..."

 

WCPO’s Sloppy Streetcar Reporting Misses Real Concerns

 

Since I joined CityBeat two years ago, I’ve read and watched a lot of bad attempts at investigative journalism. But on Feb. 24, WCPO genuinely surprised me with the worst piece of reporting, journalism or whatever one wants to call what I saw: a so-called “investigation” into deaths related to streetcars.

 

There is just so much wrong with the report. The statistics themselves show the story completely lacks news relevance. The reporters failed to contact any streetcar supporters, who are some of the most accessible sources in local journalism. And the story failed to identify one of its main sources as a member of the virulently anti-streetcar Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes (COAST).

 

Putting aside most of these errors in the reporting process, I want to focus on two statistics provided in the story. According to WCPO’s sources, more than 300 people have died in light rail accidents nationwide since 1995, but — and this is crucial — 96 percent of rail-related deaths were not caused by the people riding in the streetcar or train.

 

Cont

'In Bid for GOP Convention, Cincinnati Republicans tout....Streetcar?'

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/02/in-bid-for-gop-convention-cincinnati.html

This is like a "story" one would read on THE ONION as political satire...unreal.

Aren't the biggest opponents DiNOs anyway?

This is like a "story" one would read on THE ONION as political satire...unreal.

 

The streetcar was a Republican idea to begin with.  It only became a "Democrat" issue after Chris Bortz turned on his own project in 2011, meaning it fell in Mallory's lap.  There was stuff going on back around 2006-07 that seems impossible now, like both Ghiz & Cranley voting for the streetcar while dating. 

 

 

Oh, and I heard that JUDGE Ghiz was going to be pressured to recuse herself had the pro-streetcar charter amendment been placed on the spring 2014 ballot because of her past streetcar votes while serving on council and for having dated now-mayor Cranley.   

This is like a "story" one would read on THE ONION as political satire...unreal.

 

The streetcar was a Republican idea to begin with.  It only became a "Democrat" issue after Chris Bortz turned on his own project in 2011, meaning it fell in Mallory's lap.  There was stuff going on back around 2006-07 that seems impossible now, like both Ghiz & Cranley voting for the streetcar while dating. 

 

 

Oh, and I heard that JUDGE Ghiz was going to be pressured to recuse herself had the pro-streetcar charter amendment been placed on the spring 2014 ballot because of her past streetcar votes while serving on council and for having dated now-mayor Cranley. 

 

Whoa...Cranley and Ghiz dated?!?

 

 

 

Whoa...Cranley and Ghiz dated?!?

Glad that came to an end

This is like a "story" one would read on THE ONION as political satire...unreal.

 

The streetcar was a Republican idea to begin with.  It only became a "Democrat" issue after Chris Bortz turned on his own project in 2011, meaning it fell in Mallory's lap.  There was stuff going on back around 2006-07 that seems impossible now, like both Ghiz & Cranley voting for the streetcar while dating. 

 

 

Oh, and I heard that JUDGE Ghiz was going to be pressured to recuse herself had the pro-streetcar charter amendment been placed on the spring 2014 ballot because of her past streetcar votes while serving on council and for having dated now-mayor Cranley. 

 

Whoa...Cranley and Ghiz dated?!?

 

Eww ... Gross.

 

TMI

This article brings up a great talking point the next time some over-zealous conservative rants about the streetcar...."well you know the Hamilton County Republican Chairman considers it a great asset and even used it as a way to sell the city to land the Republican national convention."  Hopefully the one of many more critics to fall into the supporter camp.  This can only help the overall success and increase the possibility of future expansion.

The streetcar was:

 

Socialist

Marxist

Crime train

Too Short

Too long

No one will ride it

Trolly Folly

Crack train

Thug Train

Yuppie Train

Hipster Train

Leftist Train

Bankrupt the city

Make us Detroit

Downgrade our credit rating

Take money away from our police

Take money away from fire

Take money away from roads

Take money away from potholes

 

 

 

Now its:

 

An asset

The streetcar was:

 

Socialist

Marxist

Crime train

Too Short

Too long

No one will ride it

Trolly Folly

Crack train

Thug Train

Yuppie Train

Hipster Train

Leftist Train

Bankrupt the city

Make us Detroit

Downgrade our credit rating

Take money away from our police

Take money away from fire

Take money away from roads

Take money away from potholes

 

 

 

Now its:

 

An asset

 

You could have added:

 

"Killer Streetcar - attacks citizens"

 

and, given the vehemence of its opponents, one might think that it  ....

 

"Stinks worse than the thousands of abandoned refrigerators full of rotting food left behind in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina!"

 

(That WAS a horrendous problem, which taught everyone there the importance of emptying their refrigerators and freezers BEFORE evacuating the city. The stench in the hot humid air was overwhelming to the evacuees who returned, and it was weeks before FEMA was able to arrange to have all those ruined appliances hauled away.)

Easy to see why Cincinnati keeps scoring high in the federal grant process when you see what else is getting funded.  This is the new light rail extension in Houston which goes through an incredibly ugly and inauspicious area:

What's so striking about Houston's new light rail line is not only its bleak, empty desolate surroundings, but the fact that it appears that virtually nobody is riding it! Makes one wonder, what the heck is the matter with the Feds' funding priorities for light rail? If this is the kind of ridership Cincinnati is going to experience on its new system, God help us!

 

Maybe the Feds are hoping that Houston's new line will help to spur redevelopment of the area it traverses. Looks like it's going to take a LOT of reinvestment to revive this barren landscape. For now, Houston has a fast, sleek-looking train to nowheresville!

it looks like the Houston line is parallel to a motorway, and the automobiles are making better time.

 

 

Is it a race?