Is anyone else encouraged by the fact that Amy Murray is in Portland riding a streetcar right now? 

 

Watch her trot back to talk radio saying...

 

-nobody was riding them

-they made all kinds of noise

-tons of homeless spending all day on them

-there was some development but it looked like it was going to happen anyway

-city is not providing basic services because streetcar taking up too much tax revenue

 

etc., etc., etc.

 

 

 

 

I bet seeing the Portland Streetcar firsthand is helping to change her mind, but she will never publicly admit it.

 

Agreed.  IMO I don't think she was ever against the streetcar as much as Cranley is, but it is still way too soon for her to change her mind on it publicly.

As I sort-of predicted, I heard Murray on the radio reporting that she "needs" to visit cities where streetcars "have failed". 

 

So what she's doing is setting up a situation where she's going to eventually vote for a streetcar extension, but not without creating tons of excuses for the people who voted for her, and not without extracting something in return. 

^ Murray's truly a political animal and opportunist and nothing else.

I wish Amy Murray good luck trying to find a city where streetcars have failed. There aren't any.

 

If that's really her attitude, it's emblematic of much of Cincinnati's leadership -- playing not to lose rather than playing to win. Kinda sad, that.

 

However, Amy Murray was quite engaged on this trip, as was David Mann.

 

Planning another trip this summer. Write if you want to go.

Found it interesting that on the morning she was travelling to Portland, she called 55krc to soothe Brian Thomas. 

 

Her last day in Portland, she calls 700wlw.

 

I glanced at her facebook wall as well and some of her supporters are flipping out.  One already called her a 'turncoat'

 

Also, I heard a 700wlw news promo this morning on Murray...It seemed more like a warning from them to her rather than news. 

Here is the podcast Jake is referring to of Amy Murray's recap of the Portland trip

 

http://www.700wlw.com/media/podcast-sterling-on-700wlw-sterling/sterling-talks-street-car-24482273/

I wish Amy Murray good luck trying to find a city where streetcars have failed. There aren't any.

 

If that's really her attitude, it's emblematic of much of Cincinnati's leadership -- playing not to lose rather than playing to win. Kinda sad, that.

 

However, Amy Murray was quite engaged on this trip, as was David Mann.

 

Planning another trip this summer. Write if you want to go.

 

There's something to be said for simply playing not to lose.  Also, Cincinnati's business leadership, at least in their development projects with in the City, are more likely to structure deals where they can't lose, but the City sure can.

 

As for the City's political leadership, it is certainly rather blase, but I think this insistence that the streetcar has to fail is more indicative of the weirdness of so-called conservatism.  Why exactly is it conservative to oppose rail transit, urban core redevelopment, and so on?  If you consider what so-called conservatives say is important to them- fiscal responsibility, keeping the old rather than the new and untried, you'd never come to that conclusion.

 

She's a politician and she has a responsibility to the constituencies that helped elect her.  Whether she is willing to break with those constituencies over one policy disagreement is her call.  If you believe the streetcar is a project of primary importance, it's more important to keep in mind that her supporters are unalterably, unconvincably opposed to this project, and to keep that in mind regarding whom you support.

thee-ater?

She seemed to have good things to say about the streetcar at the dinner on Friday night.

 

So did Mann.

At a private dinner, in absence of the media, with people who would think more highly of her if she said good things.

 

Just sayin'.

^ I do appreciate you mentioning that Murray actually confided such to a small, select, and private audience--but, then again, what opportunist wouldn't under such protected surroundings?  This politico is truly a first-class "clown.''  No, not a "Chuckles The Clown," but she sings either a Judy Collins or Roger Whittaker rendition of "Send in the Clowns."  (ie, I'll be whoever you want me to be...)

^ I do appreciate you mentioning that Murray actually confided such to a small, select, and private audience--but, then again, what opportunist wouldn't under such protected surroundings?  This politico is truly a first-class "clown.''  No, not a "Chuckles The Clown," but she sings either a Judy Collins or Roger Whittaker rendition of "Send in the Clowns."  (ie, I'll be whoever you want me to be...)

 

^ Comments like this are unhelpful for gaining Amy Murray's support as chairwoman of the City Council committee that will have to approve the April 28th application for Federal funding to get the streetcar to Uptown, assuming that is what you want.

 

 

Photos from 3/15/14:

 

 

 

2-car garage under construction next to single-famliy home on Republic St.:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you shut down "gentrification", you're going to get more sprawl. 

If you shut down "gentrification", you're going to get more sprawl. 

 

"People in rust belt cities confuse any private investment in urban areas with gentrification." --Angie Schmitt

To me this isn't gentrification, it's habitation. Would you rather live next door to a decrepit vacant building, or one that is inhabited and being used to its intended and best use as well as raising the value of your own home. It's only gentrification when people are being forced out, but we all saw the slide from John Deatricks presentation, there is a ton of vacancy in the area.

 

My fear is that the streetcar is stuck between a rock and a hard place; if new projects and money don't flood into OTR the streetcar is a failure, and if new projects and money do flood into OTR it's gentrification. Regardless the 700wlw crowd will call foul, and if the inner city minorities start to agree and say the same thing that the rich white suburbanites are saying, hell might freeze over.

^I get that concern, but I don't think I would worry about it too much.  There is now a lot of skin in the game in OTR, and it's a far different investment than what we saw in the late 1990s. 

 

As for opponents (regardless of where they are from), IMO eventually it will be like Mt. Adams or Fountain Square--they will forget that it was ever anything less than nice, or that they were ever opposed to investing in it. 

^ I do appreciate you mentioning that Murray actually confided such to a small, select, and private audience--but, then again, what opportunist wouldn't under such protected surroundings?  This politico is truly a first-class "clown.''  No, not a "Chuckles The Clown," but she sings either a Judy Collins or Roger Whittaker rendition of "Send in the Clowns."  (ie, I'll be whoever you want me to be...)

^ Comments like this are unhelpful for gaining Amy Murray's support as chairwoman of the City Council committee that will have to approve the April 28th application for Federal funding to get the streetcar to Uptown, assuming that is what you want.

 

Maybe you're right, but by that logic, you seem to be saying that she's a public figure who's going to be willing to make a major change in policy, against her constituency, based on a considered, personal investigation of the effects of the policy; but she's also so lacking in confidence that a poorly worded insult on message board full of nerds will offend her so deeply that she'll go back on her dispassionate, reasoned policy change that has enormous potential consequences to her future political career?

To me this isn't gentrification, it's habitation. Would you rather live next door to a decrepit vacant building, or one that is inhabited and being used to its intended and best use as well as raising the value of your own home. It's only gentrification when people are being forced out, but we all saw the slide from John Deatricks presentation, there is a ton of vacancy in the area.

 

My fear is that the streetcar is stuck between a rock and a hard place; if new projects and money don't flood into OTR the streetcar is a failure, and if new projects and money do flood into OTR it's gentrification. Regardless the 700wlw crowd will call foul, and if the inner city minorities start to agree and say the same thing that the rich white suburbanites are saying, hell might freeze over.

 

Also, some of the low-income housing in OTR is being funded by 30-year federal grants, meaning those apartments can't go market rate for at least 10 more years.  For example, the new units built on Walnut and Clay St. were built around 1995 and must remain low income until about 2025.

 

Also, I personally know people who have bought buildings north of Liberty and on McMicken and E. Clifton.  They found out quickly that it's going to cost $500,000 to begin to rehab them, so they have no choice but to continue to rent them out to low income. 

 

 

 

I'm really not worried about the relatively few people that are complaining that investment in OTR should stop because they don't like gentrification.  Its a silly argument and a losing one.

^ I do appreciate you mentioning that Murray actually confided such to a small, select, and private audience--but, then again, what opportunist wouldn't under such protected surroundings?  This politico is truly a first-class "clown.''  No, not a "Chuckles The Clown," but she sings either a Judy Collins or Roger Whittaker rendition of "Send in the Clowns."  (ie, I'll be whoever you want me to be...)

^ Comments like this are unhelpful for gaining Amy Murray's support as chairwoman of the City Council committee that will have to approve the April 28th application for Federal funding to get the streetcar to Uptown, assuming that is what you want.

 

Maybe you're right, but by that logic, you seem to be saying that she's a public figure who's going to be willing to make a major change in policy, against her constituency, based on a considered, personal investigation of the effects of the policy; but she's also so lacking in confidence that a poorly worded insult on message board full of nerds will offend her so deeply that she'll go back on her dispassionate, reasoned policy change that has enormous potential consequences to her future political career?

 

He's probably more concerned that the sentiment might become a bit of a chorus. Think about the anti-streetcar representatives at the December council meetings. They were crass and abrasive and, while they probably didn't push Flynn or Mann to the pro side, they probably emboldened their position there. They seemed to do that for PG, given some of the statements he made about decorum and thoughtfulness in words.

 

If KRC and WLW and Murray's Facebook followers start to rub in a nastier way than her traditional opponents ever did, she may just feel like our side is the right side on some level.

Powerpoint Slides:

http://www.oki.org/presentations/okistreetcar.pdf

 

check out slide 31 on this PDF. Each diamond is a vacant building in OTR and the red is empty lots.

 

This link does not work.  Does anyone have access to this slide?  I'm interested in seeing it.  Thanks.

I've got it - 7MB

Those pictures were great Jake. Thanks for posting em.

Those pictures were great Jake. Thanks for posting em.

 

No problem.  Those were with my phone, I wish I had brought my real camera.

 

In other news I heard a rumor that the Corryville Kroger is moving completely out of the University Plaza shopping center.  Will move somewhere near the new I-71 MLK interchange.  If true this has huge implications for Phase II of the streetcar -- possibility of reconnecting Vine and/or Auburn at the current intersection of Corry & Short Vine. 

 

 

 

 

 

Those pictures were great Jake. Thanks for posting em.

 

No problem.  Those were with my phone, I wish I had brought my real camera.

 

In other news I heard a rumor that the Corryville Kroger is moving completely out of the University Plaza shopping center.  Will move somewhere near the new I-71 MLK interchange.  If true this has huge implications for Phase II of the streetcar -- possibility of reconnecting Vine and/or Auburn at the current intersection of Corry & Short Vine.

 

Gosh, I would love to see something other than a big box on that site, but having no supermarket in Uptown is a big problem for walkability.  Hopefully a developer could rework the University Plaza development to include some new grocer. I can also really see a Whole Foods working well in the Nixon and Vine area. Reminds me SO much of the demographics around Milwaukee's Whole Foods.

They should bring the streetcar through University Plaza to Short Vine, both ways; even consider closing the street to car traffic (if feasible).  As for a grocery, they could tear down that horrible building between Charlton and Daniels and build something awesome there.

 

Also, Jake is right, they should totally reconnect Vine and Auburn.  You can see the old street grid on CAGIS property map.  They should go back to that, with a few modifications (like keeping Taft connected to Calhoun).

^The current layout is awful mainly because the building is in the middle of the site surrounded by parking, with hardly any sidewalk connections. When there is a muddy trail down the side of a slope due to people walking, you know there is something wrong. At least it connects to the street on one side.

 

Connecting Auburn and Vine to short Vine the way it used to be would be good in some ways, but it would also divide the property into triangles. I have an alternate idea that might ruffle some on this board, but please hear me out:

 

Build a big-box grocery store, but.....

 

squeeze the box onto the east end of the site, and make it multi-story, with the big box on the ground floor and some other use, maybe housing, on top. The housing will face the adjacent streets, and have ground level entrances, taking advantage of the change in grade between short Vine and McMillan. Place a parking lot on the west end of the site, but not as big as the typical surburban bix box parking.

 

I worked out a plan of this years ago. One challenge is to get the fire exits, which are typically at the corners of a big-box, to work. I was able to get the loading docks to work, but only by using the street space to turn the trucks.

 

Why a big box?

 

Whether you like it or not, the grocery retail industry is turning to big boxes. We have a whole thread about it in the urban grocery thread. Both urban and suburban dwellers are shopping at the big box; urbanites in large part are driving there. (Someone on this board will probably deny that he shops at big boxes.) The grocery industry simply cannot supply a big box experience without the big box.

 

That said, the problem with the big-box is not the building, but the parking and the way it connects to the street. It is possible to build a big box in an urban area with some careful design without looking like a suburban big box monstrosity.

 

A streetcar stop near the big box is certainly possible, but it can't be right in front of the front door. There has to be some distance between the door and the stop, in order to provide space for people to wait. Also, in regard to the conversation about bicycles earlier, shopping carts CANNOT cross streetcar rails.

Shopping carts? Dude you can't take them off the lot it's stealing.

I took a granny cart across the Elm Street streetcar tracks today... no big deal.

^The current layout is awful mainly because the building is in the middle of the site surrounded by parking, with hardly any sidewalk connections. When there is a muddy trail down the side of a slope due to people walking, you know there is something wrong. At least it connects to the street on one side.

 

Connecting Auburn and Vine to short Vine the way it used to be would be good in some ways, but it would also divide the property into triangles. I have an alternate idea that might ruffle some on this board, but please hear me out:

 

Build a big-box grocery store, but.....

 

squeeze the box onto the east end of the site, and make it multi-story, with the big box on the ground floor and some other use, maybe housing, on top. The housing will face the adjacent streets, and have ground level entrances, taking advantage of the change in grade between short Vine and McMillan. Place a parking lot on the west end of the site, but not as big as the typical surburban bix box parking.

 

I worked out a plan of this years ago. One challenge is to get the fire exits, which are typically at the corners of a big-box, to work. I was able to get the loading docks to work, but only by using the street space to turn the trucks.

 

Why a big box?

 

Whether you like it or not, the grocery retail industry is turning to big boxes. We have a whole thread about it in the urban grocery thread. Both urban and suburban dwellers are shopping at the big box; urbanites in large part are driving there. (Someone on this board will probably deny that he shops at big boxes.) The grocery industry simply cannot supply a big box experience without the big box.

 

That said, the problem with the big-box is not the building, but the parking and the way it connects to the street. It is possible to build a big box in an urban area with some careful design without looking like a suburban big box monstrosity.

 

A streetcar stop near the big box is certainly possible, but it can't be right in front of the front door. There has to be some distance between the door and the stop, in order to provide space for people to wait. Also, in regard to the conversation about bicycles earlier, shopping carts CANNOT cross streetcar rails.

 

This whole premise is patently false. The grocery industry began shifting to the big box model 20+ years ago - this isn't some new phenomenon. The average square footage of new grocery stores grew consistently through the 90's and early 2000's until about 2006 and it has been slowly declining since. The trend in the industry today is very much one of a shift back to smaller format, urban stores in areas that demand them. Look at Wal-Mart, Target, Safeway, Whole Foods, etc. Are these all perfect urban form? No. But they're certainly not traditional big boxes crammed into dense urban settings because "the grocery retail industry is turning to big boxes."

 

http://urbanland.uli.org/planning-design/the-rush-to-build-walkable-urban-grocery-stores/

^The grocery industry shifted to big boxes in the 1950's and 1960's. The boxes got bigger and bigger until about 2000. A typical pre-war grocery store was actually quite small. Old time grocery stores did not include meat, dairy, canned goods, bakery, wine, tobacco, drugs, magazines, and all of that in the same store. All of those things used to be in separate stores, with separate store fronts.

 

There's a thread about the former Clifton IGA. Clifton residents are trying to start a co-op to return a grocery store to the old building on Ludlow Avenue. While in an urban neighborhood, that store is actually a big-box - it's just not as big as today's Wal-Mart, Kroger, Meijer, etc.  Many of these early big-boxes have gone out of business: the Cllifton IGA, the Northside Save-a-lot, etc.

 

The Short Vine site is big enough for a moderately sized big-box, but not a super-Wal-Mart sized big box. I think that some skillful design will make it fit in quite nicely. That's the key - it has to be well designed for the neighborhood, not some standard big box plopped down in the middle of a sea of parking lots.

 

 

Here's a photo of a pre-war grocery store. This would not be economically viable today.

^ Some Cincinnatians still enjoy shopping at stores that look something like this. Park and Vine and Saigon come to mind.

 

Not a huge market to go after, but a growing one.

 

Cincinnati streetcar reaches (literal) milestone

Erin Caproni Digital Producer- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The construction of Cincinnati’s streetcar has continued through the long, cold winter months, and crews have finally reached an important point on the job.

 

With rails installed to Central Parkway, there is now an entire mile of track that has been placed in Cincinnati roadways for the system.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/03/24/cincinnati-streetcar-reaches-literal-milestone.html

So far, only straight rail has been laid.  When will they do turns?

So far, only straight rail has been laid.  When will they do turns?

 

May or June

So far, only straight rail has been laid.  When will they do turns?

 

May or June

 

I'm a little confused about what they're going to work on for the next few weeks. Are they going to begin working on the straight track on Central Parkway next, and then come back and install the curved track from Elm to Central later?

^  I would guess yes, as they are actively prepping Central Parkway now, and Twelfth Street

This is probably a stupid question, but will they be repaving the streets that currently have rail in them? I drove up Elm the other day and driving over the rails felt slick, and made it a little hard to control the car (it had rained earlier in the day, if that's relevant).  It seemed like the rails were raised, and that another layer of pavement might make it a more even surface.

^ Yes, all the streeets where rail is being installed will be repaved curb-to-curb.

This has probably been explained already. My apologies in advance.

 

Could someone explain the reasoning behind the streetcar running on the left side of Central parkway?

 

 

left?

I think he's referring to the North-most lane of the East bound side of Central Pkwy? That would also be the south side of the median heading east.

Perhaps it has something to do with making the turn onto Walnut from Central Parkway? It would be a pretty tight turn if it was in the rightmost lane of CP and turning onto Walnut.

I don't understand some of the design decisions either.  For example, why are the tracks running down the left lane of Race Street? Seems like the right lane would have been better, especially along Washington Park.  And why is there a stop in the middle of the 1200 block of Race?  The 1300 block would have been better, the sidewalk is wider there and it is right across from Music Hall and Washington Park.  I'm sure there were reasons for these decisions, I just don't see it.

 

And why would a stop be in the middle of the block?  Seems like they should all be right before an intersection, so that the streetcar can stop at a light while passengers get on and off.

 

Also, when the stops are on the left side of the street, they cannot be used by a bus.  Or can any of the stops be shared with a bus?  Maybe not since the curb is raised at the streetcar stop?

^ Traffic engineers still rule in this town. They drove a lot of these decisions. Was worse before people started pushing back.

And why would a stop be in the middle of the block?  Seems like they should all be right before an intersection, so that the streetcar can stop at a light while passengers get on and off.

 

That keeps drivers from being able to make right turns.

Julie Zimmerman ‏@JayZeeCincy  1h

Transportation one key to luring GOP convention http://cin.ci/1g8M5kq  via @enquirer #cincytransit

 

Yep, the same folks who have been trying to kill the streetcar need it as an asset to lure GOP convention. Can't make this stuff up.

Julie Zimmerman ‏@JayZeeCincy  1h

Transportation one key to luring GOP convention http://cin.ci/1g8M5kq  via @enquirer #cincytransit

 

Yep, the same folks who have been trying to kill the streetcar need it as an asset to lure GOP convention. Can't make this stuff up.

 

Can you say: hypocrisy?

 

Julie Zimmerman ‏@JayZeeCincy  1h

Transportation one key to luring GOP convention http://cin.ci/1g8M5kq  via @enquirer #cincytransit

 

Yep, the same folks who have been trying to kill the streetcar need it as an asset to lure GOP convention. Can't make this stuff up.

 

Can you say: hypocrisy?

 

Unfortunately it's worse that hypocrisy, it's nepotism.  Nepotism in the sense that the local money in this town is happy to sit back quietly and let the streetcar get built, but still supports these politicians who need to use the fear of the other to get votes and won't demonstrate any leadership.  None of the major downtown property owners was willing to come out against Cranley and the anti-streetcar crowd (although I'm a little sympathetic when the only place that gives you to go is a campaign as lazily run as Qualls'; why stick your neck out for someone who isn't even willing to work for the job she claims to want?).

 

But even then so there's a lot the local tight-knit business community could do on the transportation scene that they don't do.  And I'd say that's mostly because they aren't willing to risk much unless they have a sure thing (and therefore they aren't risking anything).