I found this document with technical specs of the DC streetcar system.  I'm sure it will share much in common with the Cincinnati streetcar.  Also, John Deatrick was/is involved in both projects.

 

http://nacto.org/docs/usdg/dc_street_car_design_criteria_ddot.pdf

 

Will actually Cincy streetcar be preferred on traffic lights? If yes, that could significantly improve speed and atractivity of it.

 

I don't know about priority but I think it will probably have a special signal at certain intersections?  I'm thinking specifically about the right turn onto Walnut from Central Parkway.

 

Would love to be able to sift through the drawings and specs for this project! 

 

I NEVER click on fishwrap stories about the streetcar.  Can we agree to no longer post links to fishwrap stories here in this forum anymore?  Paraphrase and move on.

 

Yes. Post the title and paraphrase. No link. Then if someone really wants to read it, they can dig for it. What happened to the Enquirer of six months ago that *didn't* want the project cancelled?  I guess they just wanted two more years of stirring up controversy where there is none, just for the page clicks.  That's just sad.

 

I'm only able to listen to WLW in small bits now, but it seems like their streetcar "coverage" has really dropped off. All I hear 'em talk about now is the Reds.

Been thinking about the uptown route a lot lately, and the more I think about it, the more I think there should be a streetcar hub at University Plaza.  I have reconfigured my map with 5 uptown spokes, not counting the stem down Vine Street that connects to the Downtown streetcar, that all come together at University Plaza.  Coincidently we are at a point in time when University Plaza is in need of major facelift.   

 

The five spokes I now have are University Heights/Clifton along south and west of UC, Short Vine to the Zoo, Taft and Burnet to University and Children’s Hospitals, McMillan to Walnut Hills and Xavier, and down Auburn to Christ Hospital.  (Assumes one way streets reconfigured to two way where needed.)

 

Attached is a detail of what I think the University Plaza hub could look like.  The white blocks are transfer platforms for passengers.  They could be sheltered from the weather with a contiguous roof and there could even be an indoor climate controlled waiting area if desired.  The track layout would enable streetcars to change directions, access the tracks for each uptown spoke, and also provide a holding area to for streetcars to wait before beginning their routes. 

 

The remaining businesses at the site, Kroger and Walgreens, could rebuild at the site in a new development more towards the corner of Corry and Euclid, and take advantage of the high volume of passengers passing by their businesses everyday. 

 

Can someone make a virtual world of the Cincinnati streetcar going through otr and downtown.  Kansas City got one. Can someone tell me when will they will build the station shelters

I took a few shots of various vacant buildings and empty lots in OTR; all but two are directly on the streetcar route: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taestell/sets/72157645558813064

 

It will be fun to look back and see how many of these are redeveloped by around 2020. I bet most of them will be.

Thanks for that photo set. I know a handful of those have seen some recent signs of work. The one in the 7th photo is owned by the brothers that own the smaller building next to it. They redid the smaller building and occupy the two units in it and plan on moving on to the larger one next. They've done some simple stabilization but not much yet.

 

The one at Republic and 14th has seen the bricks in the ground floor openings removed but I haven't noticed anything since they boarded up the openings after that.

 

I can't wait to look back at a photo set of all of these buildings in a short time and see what everything looks like.

Laying the "X-track" at Peeble's corner, ca. 1910.

You should plan on doing a follow up to this photo set about 4 or 5 years from now after the streetcar has started running and had time to exert its effects on the neighborhood.  Will be really neat to see the transformation!

 

Thanks for that photo set. I know a handful of those have seen some recent signs of work. The one in the 7th photo is owned by the brothers that own the smaller building next to it. They redid the smaller building and occupy the two units in it and plan on moving on to the larger one next. They've done some simple stabilization but not much yet.

 

The one at Republic and 14th has seen the bricks in the ground floor openings removed but I haven't noticed anything since they boarded up the openings after that.

 

I can't wait to look back at a photo set of all of these buildings in a short time and see what everything looks like.

Local firm picked to design streetcar logo

 

Cincinnati-based Kolar Design will develop the logo and branding standards for the Cincinnati Streetcar.

 

It will also develop the guidelines for applying the brand identity on vehicles, signs, stations, operators' uniforms, website, and printed materials.

 

The new logo will be unveiled this fall.

 

Cont

Here's the Business Courier link, if anyone doesn't want to give Cincinnati.com more traffic:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/11/this-cincinnati-company-will-lead-branding-of-the.html

I took a few shots of various vacant buildings and empty lots in OTR; all but two are directly on the streetcar route: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taestell/sets/72157645558813064

 

It will be fun to look back and see how many of these are redeveloped by around 2020. I bet most of them will be.

 

Several of those are actually occupied!  The republic St one is occupied, but after decades of having a vacant bricked up storefront OTRCH is reopening it and renting it out to a restaurant from Northside to be a small food carryout.  I think it's GREAT if OTRCH and any other low income housing property manager starts renting their storefronts to market rate commercial users. 

^That's awesome news. I've been asking around to see if anyone knew what was going there but hadn't had any luck.

Henry St closure to begin next week, last until September!  Installing the multiple Y-intersections that allow for streetcars to turnout into the MOF.  I think there are three turnouts in a row. 

 

Also, a number of people have been trying to get the City to install tree wells on the two large bumpouts that will be built.  One is half built, at Henry & Race all the way up to mcMicken.  The half they build is massive cement and pretty useless.  The section they haven't yet built may have room for two tree wells. 

 

The second location is a large (100x8ft) bumpout along 12th at Main.  The north side of 12th at Main will have a bumpout that extends from the corner westward ending just before Mixx's dumpster.  This may also be able to hold a couple tree wells which would add much needed character to 12th st).  Essentially this removes the parking lane for that almost 100 foot section of the street.  I've noticed a number of spots like this (a smaller one is at Elm & 12th) and I think part of the purpose is to make sure no parked cars are in the streetcars way during turns and also to prevent anyone from trying to pass the streetcar on the right (or left in a few instances) before or after turns.  On Race @ Central Parkway there will be another small bumpout (this one very small, maybe 7 foot x 7 foot) to prevent a car from trying to pass the streetcar on the left (basically where the parking lane is). 

Henry St closure to begin next week, last until September!  Installing the multiple Y-intersections that allow for streetcars to turnout into the MOF.  I think there are three turnouts in a row. 

 

Also, a number of people have been trying to get the City to install tree wells on the two large bumpouts that will be built.  One is half built, at Henry & Race all the way up to mcMicken.  The half they build is massive cement and pretty useless.  The section they haven't yet built may have room for two tree wells. 

 

The second location is a large (100x8ft) bumpout along 12th at Main.  The north side of 12th at Main will have a bumpout that extends from the corner westward ending just before Mixx's dumpster.  This may also be able to hold a couple tree wells which would add much needed character to 12th st).  Essentially this removes the parking lane for that almost 100 foot section of the street.  I've noticed a number of spots like this (a smaller one is at Elm & 12th) and I think part of the purpose is to make sure no parked cars are in the streetcars way during turns and also to prevent anyone from trying to pass the streetcar on the right (or left in a few instances) before or after turns.  On Race @ Central Parkway there will be another small bumpout (this one very small, maybe 7 foot x 7 foot) to prevent a car from trying to pass the streetcar on the left (basically where the parking lane is). 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding the purpose of the 12th Street (at Main) bumpout you're talking about. The other ones seem to make sense. Is there a diagram of what you're talking about?

I'm not sure I completely understand either, but the way I'm reading it, the bumpout is to keep cars from parking there that might stop the streetcar in the middle of the intersection.  Though, if that's the case, then there should be a bumpout on the far side of every intersection.

Regardless, the fact that we are bumping out sidewalks at intersections is awesome. It makes our streets more pedestrian friendly and looks so much nicer. We should be doing this on all streets in the CBD and OTR, except for the ones that have variable parking/driving lanes.

It may also have to do with placement of OCS poles in a curve, etc. Curves and intersections require much more infrastructure, including poles, than straight aways.  Either way, it's gonna be a big bump out and it might as well have trees.

Washington Park northbound streetcar stop (July 3, 2014):

 

 

 

 

12th and Race street closure. Notice the new traffic signal poles (July 3, 2014):

 

 

 

Central Parkway streetcar stop (July 4, 2014):

 

 

 

Work has started on the Race and Liberty streetcar stop (July 9, 2014):

 

 

 

The "tubs" being created at Washington Park Junction (July 11, 2014):

 

 

 

 

So far I haven't seen anyone really explain the purpose of the tubs, so I will summarize it here. Most of the regular streetcar track is insulated from the ground by a rubber boot. This prevents electrical current from leaking into the ground and corroding pipes and wires. However, this won't work for the special track work, so instead, a giant concrete tub is built around the whole area.

 

Damn they're not messing around, that's some serious business! 

 

I'm glad they're going as minimal as possible with the new traffic signal mast arms.  So often they're vastly over-scaled and usually pretty chintzy too. 

^ beautiful! Thanks. 

 

Also, it's unfortunate, but it seems that two stops will have no shelter and possibly no in-time arrival notification.  The Music Hall stop (Washington Park stop is actually the one on Race) and the Central Parkway stop will not have shelters.  This is due to their location and resistance by Cincinnati Parks & Music Hall & probably 3CDC on views, image, style, etc. the other 16 stops will have shelters & on-time-arrival data.

^ beautiful! Thanks. 

 

Also, it's unfortunate, but it seems that two stops will have no shelter and possibly no in-time arrival notification.  The Music Hall stop (Washington Park stop is actually the one on Race) and the Central Parkway stop will not have shelters.  This is due to their location and resistance by Cincinnati Parks & Music Hall & probably 3CDC on views, image, style, etc. the other 16 stops will have shelters & on-time-arrival data.

 

You will be able to see the streetcars coming at least a minute ahead of time at both of those stops. 

 

 

^ Just wait until Music Hall patrons start complaining about this. The stops will magically appear.

I was wondering how they were going to make the shelters look like they fit in w/ the Music Hall stop. I hadn't imagined the "solution" would be to simply not put them in. Not really a solution at all.

 

Would be nice if Music Hall would install boards showing streetcar arrival times in the lobby. (I'm not suggesting that as a substitute for a display at the stop.)

Two high profile stops without shelters... sounds like a golden opportunity for philanthropy or corporate sponsorship to me.

^ beautiful! Thanks. 

 

Also, it's unfortunate, but it seems that two stops will have no shelter and possibly no in-time arrival notification.  The Music Hall stop (Washington Park stop is actually the one on Race) and the Central Parkway stop will not have shelters.  This is due to their location and resistance by Cincinnati Parks & Music Hall & probably 3CDC on views, image, style, etc. the other 16 stops will have shelters & on-time-arrival data.

 

You will be able to see the streetcars coming at least a minute ahead of time at both of those stops. 

 

 

 

By that logic why have real time arrival anywhere? You can see every bus or streetcar 1 minute ahead of all stops. I don't think that's the point.

 

John, do you know if there will at least be decent looking benches at the stops that have no shelters? 

^ beautiful! Thanks. 

 

Also, it's unfortunate, but it seems that two stops will have no shelter and possibly no in-time arrival notification.  The Music Hall stop (Washington Park stop is actually the one on Race) and the Central Parkway stop will not have shelters.  This is due to their location and resistance by Cincinnati Parks & Music Hall & probably 3CDC on views, image, style, etc. the other 16 stops will have shelters & on-time-arrival data.

 

You will be able to see the streetcars coming at least a minute ahead of time at both of those stops. 

 

 

 

By that logic why have real time arrival anywhere? You can see every bus or streetcar 1 minute ahead of all stops. I don't think that's the point.

 

John, do you know if there will at least be decent looking benches at the stops that have no shelters? 

 

Great idea to install a reader board in the lobby of Music Hall or maybe on the veranda. Dunno about the benches. I'm sure they are terrific, like everything else about the streetcar designs.

 

Talking with my wife at the intermission at the Opera on Saturday night, looking out over all the people in Washington Park on movie night, I'm certain I saw the makings of a really great city. Just needs a streetcar to pull it all together.

Can the streetcars be hooked together?  If so, how long are the stops?  Are they long enough to accommodate two connected "units?"

Can the streetcars be hooked together?  If so, how long are the stops?  Are they long enough to accommodate two connected "units?"

 

No.  I heard that they can be coupled for towing but can't run as a train like Boston's streetcar. 

In that case, do the stops include "room to grow" if it's decided in the future to buy longer streetcars (or light rail)?

 

 

^ They can be added onto, but I suspect all the surfaces would need to be rebuilt because of wiring changes under the platfrom. The bend in the track where it kisses the platform would need to be lengthened too. But in the larger scheme of things, these are not deal-killers. Plus, not every stop would be altered, maybe every other one since LRT stops less frequently. On Main, for instance, in the CBD I imagine there would only be three LRT stops -- the Banks, Government Square and Central Parkway, say.

I would think that it would make more sense to increase the number of cars running and thus decrease the time until the next streetcar arrives if more capacity is needed.  That would be a very good problem to have though because it would mean a lot of people are riding.

Hello all, I had some more musings on the uptown streetcar possibilities, but I realize that in itself doesn’t really count as “Cincinnati Streetcar News.”  So, I started a new thread, moderators please move if you disagree with this approach.

 

Once again, here’s the map I had posted on the other thread for reference. Also included is a very rough diagram of an Uptown Transit Center located at University Plaza.  Once again one way streets are reconfigured two way where required.

 

 

I wanted to do a line-by-line breakdown, including miles, Points of Interest (POI’s), Neighborhood Business Districts (NBD’s), Census Tracts (2010), Census Tracts population (2010,) and Connections. 

 

For Census Tracts, I included Census Block Groups adjacent to the line.  For census tracts adjacent to multiple lines, I attributed it to one line or the other to avoid double counting.  Some areas of some census block groups were admittedly a little far of a walk from the streetcar line. On the other hand, population has no doubt increased in areas of uptown where new development has occurred since 2010.  Also, I would think the census wouldn’t be good at counting the student population, and the “daytime population” counting the workers at all the different facilities would be a different matter altogether. 

 

 

Route: Vine St. up the hill

 

Miles: 0.8

POI’s: N/A

NBD’s: N/A

2010 Census Tracts: N/A

2010 Census Tracts Pop: N/A

Connections: Downtown Streetcar, Uptown Transit Center

 

Route: Clifton Heights/ Clifton

 

Miles: 1 mile double track on Clifton, 0.5 miles single track each on McMillan and Calhoun

POI’s: University of Cincinnati, U Square at the Loop, Hughes High School, Deaconess Hospital, Stratford Heights, Hebrew Union College, Burnet Woods, Good Samaritan Hospital

NBD’s: Clifton Heights, Clifton Gaslight

2010 Census Tracts: 72-1,71-2, 70-2, 70-3, 29-1, 29-2, 30-3, 26-1, 25-1

2010 Census Tracts Pop: 13,254

Connections: Uptown Transit Center

 

Route: Vine St. to Zoo

 

Miles: 0.9

POI’s: Views on Vine, Stetson Square, Hampton Inn, Mariott, EPA, VA, Zoo

NBD’s: Short Vine

2010 Census Tracts: 30-1,30-2, 33-2

2010 Census Tracts Pop: 2,777

Connections: Uptown Transit Center

 

Route: Taft/Burnet to Hospitals

 

Miles:1.7

POI’s: Christ Hospital offices, Cincinnati Public Schools Office, Hauck Gardens, Tri Health Bethesda Oak Complex, Vernon Manor, Children's Hospital Offices, Talbert House/Crossroads Center, Stetson Square, Barrett Cancer Center, Hoxworth,  Cincinnati Board of Health, UC medical colleges, UC Health, University Hospital, Children's Hospital, Children's Hospital Research Tower, Children's Hospital Burnet Ave. Offices, Rockdale Academy

NBD’s: some Corryville, bisects MLK

2010 Census Tracts: 33-1,32-1, 270-2, 270-4, 69-2, 68-2,69-1

2010 Census Tracts Pop: 6,725

Connections: Uptown Transit Center

 

Route: Walnut Hills

 

Miles: 3.2

POI’s: Campus Park (formerly McMillan Manor,) new Women's Drop Inn Center, Union Institute & University, Lighthouse Youth Services, Essex Studios bldg, Dohn community high school, Kroger, Walnut Hills Library, Alms Apts, St Ursula Academy, UC College of Applied Science, high rises overlooking river, Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Offices, St. Francis de Sales, Purcell Marion High School, Evanston Academy (Hoffman,) Evanston Community Center, Walnut Hills High School, Xavier University, University Station

NBD’s: Walnut Hills, East Walnut Hills

2010 Census Tracts: 22-1, 267-1,267-2,19-1,37-1, 37-2, 20-1, 20-2, 42-1, 42-2, 41-1, 41-2, 39-3, 38-1,38-2, 38-3, 66-2, 65-2

2010 Census Tracts Pop: 15,455

Connections: Uptown Transit Center, Wasson Way, Future I-71 Light Rail

 

Route: Auburn Ave.

 

Miles: 0.6

POI’s: The Christ Hospital, Christ Hospital Joint and Spine Center, Taft Historic Site, Hamilton County Juvenile Center, Taft Elementary/Mt Auburn Community Center, Mt. Auburn International Academy

NBD’s: N/A

2010 Census Tracts: 23-1, 22-2, 22-3,18-2

2010 Census Tracts Pop: 3,683

Connections: Uptown Transit Center

 

Total Census Tracts Pop: 41,894

 

^ I don't necessarily think that there needs to be a special transit center for the streetcar routes. The only reason you would need it is if the streetcars themselves had a layover at this point, in which case you would want them to pull into a transit center rather than idling on the street and clogging up traffic. A standard streetcar stop could serve multiple routes until they branch off. So maybe the Jefferson/Corry stop is the last one that serves all routes and they branch off after that point.

 

The streetcars could display route information on their signs and people would use that into to get on the correct train. I don't even know if we really need to give them colors/numbers/letters. Heading north from The Banks they could display "To Findlay Market". At that point, they would either become "To The Banks" (take the existing Phase 1A route back downtown); "To The Zoo"  / "To Walnut Hills" / etc. Streetcars heading back from any of these destinations would simply display "To The Banks".

^Here's my issue with that:  I can't think of how you would maintain a regular frequency of streetcars circulating the downtown loop in that case (or any of the uptown routes for that matter.)  If you had the first streetcar from downtown venture out on the 6.4 mile round trip Walnut Hills Route, and the second one do the short Auburn Ave Route, the second one would probably beat the first one back.  Maybe a computer could figure it out, but I could see a situation develop where two streetcars bunch together downtown and then there's a half hour gap until the next one comes.

 

Instead I was thinking there would be dedicated streetcars to each line that simply went back and forth all day to the Transit Center.  Perhaps the Zoo route only gets one and the Walnut Hills route gets 3-4.  The cars would travel up the hil from the MOF in the morning, stay uptown all day, and come back at night. In any case the downtown cars turn around at the Transit Center and head back down the hill to maintain a fixed frequency downtown.  In this scenario the downtown loop is simply another leg of the Uptown streetcar.  A transfer of course is less than ideal, but there would only be one, and I think you could make up for it with frequency of service.  Also by keeping the lines modular like this you could deal with a problem like a car that needs to be towed out of the way on a specific line without messing up the whole system.

 

I think you need the flexibility the transit center would provide, and I think the ability to take a streetcar off the roadway to deal with problems or to adjust schedules without going all the way down the hill would be hugely important.

^^ A "transit center" would give streetcars a place to turn around, a place for riders to transfer without navigating across busy and/or large streets/intersections  (e.g. Jefferson & Corry), and a center for development to branch out from. It's not so much that it is "necessary," but that it's convenient considering the circumstances surrounding University Plaza, and its need to be redeveloped and urbanized, and the bonus of connecting Vine to Short Vine. It would also offer a place to have a second streetcar barn tucked away from street frontage.

 

As you mention idling, it would indeed offer a place where railcars or buses could idle and make sure intended connections can be made, which gets harder to accomplish as streetcar, BRT, and LRT lines become more plentiful.

 

Making strong nodes is important in a city where Jarrett Walker-style transit grids are a physical impossibility. The disjointed Uptown Transit District plan is nice considering the upgrade to the status quo, but creating a transit center would do wonders for making more trips possible with only one transfer, which is extremely important for attracting choice riders. As the system grows, I'm afraid a single busy intersection wouldn't be so flexible in accommodating creative solutions. More immediately, giving the city greater control of the University Plaza site would help ensure it becomes an asset to Uptown instead of remaining more or less a blackhole for urbanity (as Kroger, until recently, was pushing very hard for).

Also, modern streetcars do not need a turnaround since both ends can be used as the "front". For example, check out this turnaround point on the Seattle streetcar:

 

 

An interesting exception is that Toronto's modern streetcars will be single-ended. Since their entire streetcar network is already built out with turnaround at the end of each line, they have no reason to have double-ended cars.

Do the overhead wires look that bad in all areas or just above the so called turnaround? I'm a big supporter but don't know too much about those type of details, but those wires look terrible to me.

Do the overhead wires look that bad in all areas or just above the so called turnaround?

 

No.

Do the overhead wires look that bad in all areas or just above the so called turnaround? I'm a big supporter but don't know too much about those type of details, but those wires look terrible to me.

 

It's just because you have so many tracks in one area there.  That appears to be 2 straightaways, plus a turn from each track, maybe more that I can't see.  Normally, you just have a single wire running parallel with the track, which looks fine and actually makes the system more usable because you can look for it if you get lost while exploring an unfamiliar area.  The situation seen above is fairly rare.

Also, modern streetcars do not need a turnaround since both ends can be used as the "front".

 

I'm aware of that, but you still need to do some special configuring to get it to work. Like having stations in the median, as pictured in Seattle. The design gymnastics are simplified and more flexible in a dedicated space. I'm not really sure what the downsides are that you see to a transit center; your assertion was merely that it's not needed. I'm unaware of anyone saying it is "needed," just that it would be a good idea.

 

The only credible negative I've heard is that Short Vine business owners apparently don't want the streetcar on Short Vine, but I'm not convinced that's in itself reason to abandon the idea, especially since they might be persuaded otherwise by facts, data, and flashy renderings.

Also, modern streetcars do not need a turnaround since both ends can be used as the "front".

 

I'm aware of that, but you still need to do some special configuring to get it to work. Like having stations in the median, as pictured in Seattle. The design gymnastics are simplified and more flexible in a dedicated space. I'm not really sure what the downsides are that you see to a transit center; your assertion was merely that it's not needed. I'm unaware of anyone saying it is "needed," just that it would be a good idea.

 

The only credible negative I've heard is that Short Vine business owners apparently don't want the streetcar on Short Vine, but I'm not convinced that's in itself reason to abandon the idea, especially since they might be persuaded otherwise by facts, data, and flashy renderings.

 

There will be a large cost to the city to acquire a parcel and develop it into a transit center. It would not be cheap for the city to buy University Plaza. On the other hand, the city already owns the streets and the sidewalks. Why complicate things when the system can be so much simpler and cheaper?

 

I also see it as the difference between a streetcar system and a light rail system. The streetcar primarily runs in the streets and doesn't need much more infrastructure than relatively basic stops. Light rail can have more dedicated right-of-way and/or tunnels, and true "stations" as opposed to "stops", which could include a transit center where multiple lines branch off or cross each other.

Thanks for the photo taestell.  On my map, I was thinking each line would end in a Y configuration like shown, however, I hadn't considered there could be a stop in the middle of the "Y" like this.  I think I should revise my Transit Center platforms and X's to reflect this configuration.  However, I do agree with natininja that it would be easier for pedestrians and traffic to position the transfer stops off road where they could even share the same shelter.  Then you would just need special signaling to get the streetcars into the Transit Center.

 

It's actually kind of heartening you think we could pull off a system like this without a transit center, because I consider it  a longshot that it would actually get built, and the land will probably be repurposed for something else soon.  I could see John Cranley going out of his way to quash using University Plaza for anything streetcar related. 

 

PS whoops! just saw your last post.  Agree it would cost some bucks.

Bit of a diversion. This was posted as a 1911 photo of the Cincinnati Car Company which made streetcars.

This is, I believe on the SW corner of Spring Grove & Mitchell. Currently a car dealership. There was another building on the north side of Mitchell which is, I think, an auto parts store.

Bit of a diversion. This was posted as a 1911 photo of the Cincinnati Car Company which made streetcars.

This is, I believe on the SW corner of Spring Grove & Mitchell. Currently a car dealership. There was another building on the north side of Mitchell which is, I think, an auto parts store.

 

Pretty sure this ended up being a Swallen's store -- who or this list even remembers Swallens? -- and I think I bought a refrigerator there.

^I remember Al Schottlekotte talking about Swallen's in a WCET documentary about him :D

 

But anyway, to be on topic, I like the idea of a streetcar "transit center"...maybe something like Tampa's one (the DT end of the TECO line, IIRC).

Also, modern streetcars do not need a turnaround since both ends can be used as the "front".

 

I'm aware of that, but you still need to do some special configuring to get it to work. Like having stations in the median, as pictured in Seattle. The design gymnastics are simplified and more flexible in a dedicated space. I'm not really sure what the downsides are that you see to a transit center; your assertion was merely that it's not needed. I'm unaware of anyone saying it is "needed," just that it would be a good idea.

 

The only credible negative I've heard is that Short Vine business owners apparently don't want the streetcar on Short Vine, but I'm not convinced that's in itself reason to abandon the idea, especially since they might be persuaded otherwise by facts, data, and flashy renderings.

 

There will be a large cost to the city to acquire a parcel and develop it into a transit center. It would not be cheap for the city to buy University Plaza. On the other hand, the city already owns the streets and the sidewalks. Why complicate things when the system can be so much simpler and cheaper?

 

I also see it as the difference between a streetcar system and a light rail system. The streetcar primarily runs in the streets and doesn't need much more infrastructure than relatively basic stops. Light rail can have more dedicated right-of-way and/or tunnels, and true "stations" as opposed to "stops", which could include a transit center where multiple lines branch off or cross each other.

 

It's not like purchasing some property (for another car barn) isn't inevitable. I wish I had a dollar amount to attach to various UP eminent domain proposals, but unfortunately I wouldn't know where to start. I also don't know what's legal. (e.g. Can the city take more than just a Vine-to-Short Vine strip of UP and use 3CDC, PGCDA, or other PPP money to create a mixed-use development?) Reconnecting Vine to Short Vine, even if exclusively for transit and pedestrians, certainly has a high value by itself. Using Short Vine for streetcars certainly also has value. As you want to emphasize the streetcar/LRT distinction, Jefferson is a far inferior street (vs. Short Vine) for streetcar functionality and TOD.

 

We should also consider ROI and not just capital costs. And we should have an eye to dual-use of track for LRT, as in the basin. Especially if the forest route is chosen for the Vine Street ascent, we need to have some foresight for integrating streetcar and LRT precisely in the vicinity we're talking about. And there's no better time than the present, when UP is destined to be but not yet rebuilt, to consider possibilities of using that site. 10-15 years down the road, when the LRT ball is rolling and there are 5-10 year old buildings on the site would be a horrible time to entertain using eminent domain for light rail facilities.

 

Pretty sure this ended up being a Swallen's store -- who or this list even remembers Swallens? -- and I think I bought a refrigerator there.

 

I definitely remember Swallens, but not at that location!

Here's a revised diagram of my Uptown Transit Center.  White boxes are transfer platforms.  The platform of the right is for Taft/Burnet to Hospitals, Walnut Hills, and Auburn Ave. routes.  The platform on the left is for Vine St. to Zoo, Clifton Heights/Clifton, and Downtown routes.  Red box is car barn.  Blue outline represents a covered canopy.  I took some liberties rearranging some of the street grid, eliminating Corryville Triangle Park.  You could probably do the transit center in a smaller footprint than this if you wanted to, please excuse my MS Paint skills.

 

 

Or... how about this one for the sports fans?  Perhaps you can move the Kroger to across from Old St. George in this scenario.  Since Xavier is connected via the Walnut Hills line, you could rename the Crosstown Shootout the Streetcar Shootout (although talk radio might have a little too much fun with that one.)  And, Short Vine could be a game day tail gate area.  And you would have a modern arena thoroughly connected to uptown and downtown via transit. 

 

Well, Kroger at this point is committed to a store on MLK, and will close both the Corryville and Walnut Hills locations when it is complete.

Well, Kroger at this point is committed to a store on MLK, and will close both the Corryville and Walnut Hills locations when it is complete.

 

It's off-topic, so post in the urban groceries thread if it needs to, but this is the first I've heard about closing the Walnut Hills store.  Do you have a link for this?  It's been improving along with the neighborhood, and I'm sure WHAC would fight to keep it.  I'll be disappointed if it's true.

 

Also, where on MLK?

Well, Kroger at this point is committed to a store on MLK, and will close both the Corryville and Walnut Hills locations when it is complete.

 

Sherman, do you have any credible source for this? I have a feeling that this rumor may be true, since it fits Kroger's preferred business model (closing the smaller neighborhood stores and building a large megastore to serve an multiple neighborhood area). However I have also heard from other sources that this rumor is totally false.