The current car barn can handle up to 12 streetcars. This is enough to handle the downtown/OTR loop, uptown connector, and possibly 2-3 extensions from there. When it comes time for us to built another car barn, we will want to build it as far from downtown as possible where the land is cheaper, and won't want to put it at a prominent corner where some tax-generating redevelopment would be possible.

The current car barn can handle up to 12 streetcars. This is enough to handle the downtown/OTR loop, uptown connector, and possibly 2-3 extensions from there. When it comes time for us to built another car barn, we will want to build it as far from downtown as possible where the land is cheaper, and won't want to put it at a prominent corner where some tax-generating redevelopment would be possible.

 

Yes, I basically agree with this, except I don't necessarily think "as far from downtown as possible" is important. But low land value, yes. And definitely not on a major street corner. If it were going to go on the UP site, which is likely a bad site due to high land values, it should be tucked into the center of the block.

 

When I sai "It's not like purchasing some property (for another car barn) isn't inevitable," I meant that use of eminent domain is inevitable. So while use of ED adds costs, it's not like the suggestion is earth-shattering compared to the inevitable status quo. Taking (a) strip(s) of land should be cheap relative to taking a whole block.

 

When I did mention possibly placing the car barn on the site, I mentioned tucking it into the center of the block. But I think taestell is right that it's probably a bad location. As much of the site that can be put to economic use should be.

 

thebillshark, I think in your maps you're not leaving enough room for buildings fronting streets.

Do the overhead wires look that bad in all areas or just above the so called turnaround? I'm a big supporter but don't know too much about those type of details, but those wires look terrible to me.

 

It's just because you have so many tracks in one area there.  That appears to be 2 straightaways, plus a turn from each track, maybe more that I can't see.  Normally, you just have a single wire running parallel with the track, which looks fine and actually makes the system more usable because you can look for it if you get lost while exploring an unfamiliar area.  The situation seen above is fairly rare.

 

Makes sense.  Thanks.

I remember Swallens at Winton and Spring Grove, not Mitchell

Well, Kroger at this point is committed to a store on MLK, and will close both the Corryville and Walnut Hills locations when it is complete.

 

Sherman, do you have any credible source for this? I have a feeling that this rumor may be true, since it fits Kroger's preferred business model (closing the smaller neighborhood stores and building a large megastore to serve an multiple neighborhood area). However I have also heard from other sources that this rumor is totally false.

 

I agree, please share more details on the supposed MLK Kroger.  I've called every source I can think of and everyone has told me that putting a big box grocery near MLK is not part of the plan and they've never heard it before.  The plan there is for medical office users.  Tech, etc.  The leases that are holding up the development at the Corryville location end next year.  The construction on the new store could be underway before MLK exit is even finished.

 

That being said, I do believe they will close the WH store when the new Corryville location is finished.  They are 1.1 miles apart.  Kroger is a for-profit business, and unfortunately, that means removing duplicative services. They also don't own the land where their current store is so they have no interest in renovating it when they don't own the land and the land owner's are apparently huge a**holes who won't spend a penny improving the land.

My contacts at Kroger real estate tell me that they are definitely planning on renovating the Corryville store as soon as the last tenant's lease expires (later this year). Any talk of a new store at MLK is not based on actual Kroger plans.

We now have council majority support for planning of phase 2 of the streetcar

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/17/exclusive-council-majority-wants-to-start-planning.html?ana=twt

 

However, its still not enough to overcome the mayoral veto which will be sure to follow any proposed ordinance.

 

Motions however are another story

 

 

We now have council majority support for planning of phase 2 of the streetcar

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/17/exclusive-council-majority-wants-to-start-planning.html?ana=twt

 

However, its still not enough to overcome the mayoral veto which will be sure to follow any proposed ordinance.

 

Motions however are another story

 

 

 

At the last Believe in Cincinnati meeting, Kevin Flynn came out and admitted, "streetcar opponents will never admit that any of the new development along the route was caused or influenced by the streetcar." They will never admit to there being a positive ROI. So when certain politicians say, "we need to wait for Phase 1 to be proven successful," what they are really saying is, "I will never admit that Phase 1 was successful, and I will never vote in favor of Phase 2."

 

I am very happy, though, that we have five people voting in favor of studying Phase 2. Even if we don't start building it until Cranley's out of office, we need to start the planning immediately.

Excited to see some of the CBD Stops and how they will be incorporated into the surrounding area.

 

Will be cool to see actual track running next to office and residential towers. 

The current car barn can handle up to 12 streetcars. This is enough to handle the downtown/OTR loop, uptown connector, and possibly 2-3 extensions from there. When it comes time for us to built another car barn, we will want to build it as far from downtown as possible where the land is cheaper, and won't want to put it at a prominent corner where some tax-generating redevelopment would be possible.

 

Yes, I basically agree with this, except I don't necessarily think "as far from downtown as possible" is important. But low land value, yes. And definitely not on a major street corner. If it were going to go on the UP site, which is likely a bad site due to high land values, it should be tucked into the center of the block.

 

When I sai "It's not like purchasing some property (for another car barn) isn't inevitable," I meant that use of eminent domain is inevitable. So while use of ED adds costs, it's not like the suggestion is earth-shattering compared to the inevitable status quo. Taking (a) strip(s) of land should be cheap relative to taking a whole block.

 

When I did mention possibly placing the car barn on the site, I mentioned tucking it into the center of the block. But I think taestell is right that it's probably a bad location. As much of the site that can be put to economic use should be.

 

thebillshark, I think in your maps you're not leaving enough room for buildings fronting streets.

 

Agree that the car barn could be moved somewhere else, I drew it in just because I had that area already set aside for streetcars to park or idle.  But that could probably be accomplished in a more space efficient manner, for example simply by extending the length of the "Y" leg at the platforms.  The actual barn could be moved to a vacant lot out on the Walnut Hills route or something.  I would think (speculating) if you built out all the legs on my map you would be up against the 12 streetcar limit.  I heard that if a new barn had to be built, however, it could just be a barn and the current MOF could handle the maintenance.

 

Agree about street facing buildings at the transit center, I was kind of dancing around the current Kroger footprint when I first sketched this out.  But if you were redoing everything from scratch you could make this a pretty awesome mixed use development following all best design principles. 

 

I wonder what a high rise or skyscraper would look like in this location compared to the rest of the downtown skyline?  I wonder if anyone has ever proposed one for Uptown before (excluding hospital towers.)

 

In regards to the arena sketch, I just read the UrbanCincy proposal about building the new arena next to the casino.  Agree that's a great idea because then you can get casino/Gilbert money involved.  Would probably be good for casino booking concerts in all seasons too.  However I was thinking that one thing about UC arena at University Plaza though is UC might be agreeable to accommodate a transit center plan like this. 

 

If some of the stuff I say seems pie in the sky or unrealistic because of x, y, or z, just know that I have fun kicking ideas around on this board and I always learn something new from everybody else's posts.

 

^No problem with kicking ideas around! IIRC the LACMTA Expo Line was inspired by some fantasy maps painted on LA walls (transit murals, I guess) ;) . But then again, the Expo Line was built upon the long abandoned Pacific Electric "Santa Monica Air Line." But anyway...

 

thebillshark: any ideas for a cross-town route (e.g., Cincinnati Museum Center to the Casino, or to the Casino and toward Sawyer Point)? how about lines to Price Hill or NKY? Personally I'd love to see a Banks/Newport/Covington loop. There is a lot of valuable land that could be developed as TOD across the river. It would tie the riverfront urban areas together in a really wonderful way both for tourists/visitors (both stadiums, the Newport Aquarium, and other riverfront attractions all on one loop) and residents (potential for TOD; linking TANK and SORTA transit centers together). Now if there could just be a new bridge built over the Licking ;)

I appreciate people throwing ideas around. Any criticism I offer is intended to be constructive, so I hope it comes across that way. I also realize the ideas that come out are sometimes off the top of the head and not thought out thoroughly before pen hits paper, fingers hit keys, or MS Paint brush hits Google Map. Thus is the nature of a casual forum such as this one.

 

If Kroger really is intending to break ground on a new store at UP later this year or early next year, I'm afraid it's likely Short Vine will have to be scrapped as a possible route. There would likely be too much winding and loss of speed/time without using the UP site. A tragic loss of opportunity, IMO. A streetcar on Jefferson will not provide nearly the same impact. I hope council hurries up and approves the Uptown study, and whoever does the study takes a look at these UP/Short Vine possibilities.

^^ I agree about Newport/Covington...they should really get on top of that. Would be interesting to see opinion polls for support within those two cities and their counties.

^A few questions about the interesting concept of going to NKY: 1)  Would the constitution require an interstate Compact?  As you know it's a technicality in the US constitution that says congress must approve a collaboration between two states.

 

2) Could TANK get into the interstate streetcar as a supporter since in theory they might be able to run fewer buses clear across the river.  They could terminate more routes in Covington and have people transfer.  A single fare agreement could be worked out.  This would provide TANK a lot of economy as far as reduced running times, labor costs, rolling stock requirements.

 

3) What is the ridership on the South Bank shuttle?  What is the level of interstate ridership TANK is already getting on their interstate routes?  Seems like this is an easily quantifiable baseline for ridership projections.  Nobody could possibly argue "nobody will ride the streetcar to NKY" when they're looking at an existing market already using transit for interstate trips.

 

My sense is that everybody knows an interstate streetcar could work, but there is some understandable hesitation about opening up interstate politics and coordination among multiple providers and governments.  Seems like OKI could play a lead role in bringing supporters to the table.

From what I could tell this weekend when I was biking around (and no, I never crashed because of the tracks, thank God for those warning signs...) the main focus is at the corner of Race and 12th, so this is the current trackwork progress. I might have missed a new station or two as well, when I got home I had forgotten if I saw any new ones. With the exception of the station in Washington Park they are all so unobtrusive right now that you almost don't notice them unless you are looking for it. I am sure that will change once the ticketing, benches, canopy etc. are installed.

Detroit's M-1 Line just released a website where you can track the construction of their streetcar on an interactive map. This would be a pretty cool addition to the Cincinnati Streetcar's public information outreach. By no means do I think they need to, but it is a pretty good example to set.

^^ I agree about Newport/Covington...they should really get on top of that. Would be interesting to see opinion polls for support within those two cities and their counties.

 

My sense is that it would break down much like in Ohio.  Newport and Covington would like to be connected with Cincinnati's streetcar system, but the rest of Kenton County and Campbell County would be opposed to it.  I don't know if either city has the ability to build something like this without a lot of help from the feds.  They don't have the same kind of tax base that Cincinnati has, which also needed some assistance.

From what I could tell this weekend when I was biking around (and no, I never crashed because of the tracks, thank God for those warning signs...) the main focus is at the corner of Race and 12th, so this is the current trackwork progress. I might have missed a new station or two as well, when I got home I had forgotten if I saw any new ones. With the exception of the station in Washington Park they are all so unobtrusive right now that you almost don't notice them unless you are looking for it. I am sure that will change once the ticketing, benches, canopy etc. are installed.

 

Awesome. In a few short weeks, three more of those dots and the intersection will be yellow too! 

 

They started putting up handrails on the Elm St Streetcar stops, but we won't see shelters or TVMs for two years. They're easy to install last minute and try don't want them getting vandalized in the meantime.

 

Also, I just got word that the stops have been named. They should be posted officially sometime in the next month.

^^ I agree about Newport/Covington...they should really get on top of that. Would be interesting to see opinion polls for support within those two cities and their counties.

 

My sense is that it would break down much like in Ohio.  Newport and Covington would like to be connected with Cincinnati's streetcar system, but the rest of Kenton County and Campbell County would be opposed to it.  I don't know if either city has the ability to build something like this without a lot of help from the feds.  They don't have the same kind of tax base that Cincinnati has, which also needed some assistance.

 

The southbank shuttle runs so frequently it is pretty much already a streetcar. It gets filled up some for Reds games, concerts (especially the Beyonce concert)

and out of towners staying at the Marriott and DoubleTree in Covington use it.

^ And costs more per passenger boarded than the streetcar will.

I doubt it. There isn't the cost of having to install track, stations or other infrastructure required for the streetcar. Operating costs? Maybe. But I'd like to see a citation for that.

The first switch is in!

 

I doubt it. There isn't the cost of having to install track, stations or other infrastructure required for the streetcar. Operating costs? Maybe. But I'd like to see a citation for that.

 

Yes, that's just the operating cost. It's about $5.00 per rider. Streetcar is close to $3.00.

From what I could tell this weekend when I was biking around (and no, I never crashed because of the tracks, thank God for those warning signs...) the main focus is at the corner of Race and 12th, so this is the current trackwork progress. I might have missed a new station or two as well, when I got home I had forgotten if I saw any new ones. With the exception of the station in Washington Park they are all so unobtrusive right now that you almost don't notice them unless you are looking for it. I am sure that will change once the ticketing, benches, canopy etc. are installed.

 

So the yellow represents the constructed portions?

 

I'm waiting for a person who opposed the streetcar because it would be some sort of visual scar on the city to now argue that the system is so unobtrusive that they wonder if anyone will use the streetcar because they don't see it!

From what I could tell this weekend when I was biking around (and no, I never crashed because of the tracks, thank God for those warning signs...) the main focus is at the corner of Race and 12th, so this is the current trackwork progress. I might have missed a new station or two as well, when I got home I had forgotten if I saw any new ones. With the exception of the station in Washington Park they are all so unobtrusive right now that you almost don't notice them unless you are looking for it. I am sure that will change once the ticketing, benches, canopy etc. are installed.

 

So the yellow represents the constructed portions?

 

I'm waiting for a person who opposed the streetcar because it would be some sort of visual scar on the city to now argue that the system is so unobtrusive that they wonder if anyone will use the streetcar because they don't see it!

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter, but from what I see it will be visually obtrusive.  The DC streetcar simplified the poles-- the poles tat hold the catenary are also streetlights and traffic signals.  The way I am seeing the Cincinnati streetcar come together so far we will have OCS poles, traffic signal poles, light poles (in some areas) and wood poles with cobras.  Seems like way too many poles.  DC also included new streetscaping- building to building, not curb to curb like Cincy.

 

Also, why not just start putting in mast arms traffic signals... We have mast arms over the streetcar, span wire over the streets, how cheesy.  I really wish Cincy could standardize on a classy mast arm signal (not some silly faux historic thing....).  Not burying utils in OTR is also a huge missed opp.  Completely dig up the streets and at the same time put in new, even more obtrusive taller wood poles. 

 

Value engineered to the max.  Just how it has to be here, I guess.

Even better than shared poles is attaching wires, lights, traffic signals, etc., directly to buildings. Granted, many of our buildings are old, and there are many vacant lots, and issues with private property rights, and a host of other challenges. Nevertheless, I saw this done in Europe and it really reduced the street clutter.

^ I'm pretty sure Duke had a say in not burying wires.

 

Sherman, streetcars have a greater capacity per driver (so lower labor costs), and the rolling stock lasts much longer than buses. Over time, they save money.

From what I could tell this weekend when I was biking around (and no, I never crashed because of the tracks, thank God for those warning signs...) the main focus is at the corner of Race and 12th, so this is the current trackwork progress. I might have missed a new station or two as well, when I got home I had forgotten if I saw any new ones. With the exception of the station in Washington Park they are all so unobtrusive right now that you almost don't notice them unless you are looking for it. I am sure that will change once the ticketing, benches, canopy etc. are installed.

 

So the yellow represents the constructed portions?

 

I'm waiting for a person who opposed the streetcar because it would be some sort of visual scar on the city to now argue that the system is so unobtrusive that they wonder if anyone will use the streetcar because they don't see it!

 

Yes the yellow/orange is the track that's already been installed. I tried to match the light orange of the streetcars themselves but I should've converted to rgb so it shows up properly on screen.

^No problem with kicking ideas around! IIRC the LACMTA Expo Line was inspired by some fantasy maps painted on LA walls (transit murals, I guess) ;) . But then again, the Expo Line was built upon the long abandoned Pacific Electric "Santa Monica Air Line." But anyway...

 

thebillshark: any ideas for a cross-town route (e.g., Cincinnati Museum Center to the Casino, or to the Casino and toward Sawyer Point)? how about lines to Price Hill or NKY? Personally I'd love to see a Banks/Newport/Covington loop. There is a lot of valuable land that could be developed as TOD across the river. It would tie the riverfront urban areas together in a really wonderful way both for tourists/visitors (both stadiums, the Newport Aquarium, and other riverfront attractions all on one loop) and residents (potential for TOD; linking TANK and SORTA transit centers together). Now if there could just be a new bridge built over the Licking ;)

 

ucgrady has the best idea for a NKY streetcar that was posted on the Beyond the Streetcar thread:  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=9.1155 ucgrady you should repost your diagram on this thread!  Agree on the huge potential for development in Covington and Newport.  There is lots of room for infill development to restore their urban fabric.  For example, look at the area around the World Peace Bell, here’s this structure that was supposed to be a major monument and it’s surrounded by a surface parking lot.  As for the 4th street bridge over the Licking, I always get annoyed when riding my bike from Newport to Covington that the path at the top of the Newport levee dumps you onto the super narrow bridge sidewalk there. There is no room to pass a pedestrian coming in the opposite direction even after getting off your bike and walking it.  It’s really awkward!

 

For a cross downtown route I would like to see eventually a line down Ezzard Charles to Union Terminal.  I would like to have upgraded intercity rail service arrive at Union Terminal eventually, so I think a streetcar connection would be good to deliver tourists directly into OTR and downtown.  Plus there is actually room for more development back in the West End/Laurel Homes area, most notably (ironically?) on the plot of land being used for the streetcar construction staging area.  I always thought this would somehow wrap around Music Hall from OTR, but I just had the idea today that it could come from Court Street downtown (potential for surface lot redevelopment along the way) to Linn Street (help out the mostly vacant ground floor retail portion of City West) and then made a left turn onto Ezzard Charles. 

 

I always considered Horseshoe Casino to be on the current route, but if the UrbanCincy casino arena idea came to fruition just north of the casino, it would be nice to have it come a little bit closer.  Once you get it over there, I don't know where you send it, I guess down Eggleston but the development potential would be limited due to the highway spaghetti in that area.  It would be difficult to get up to Mt. Adams.  I’ve also heard an idea for an arena directly south of the convention center, if that happened once again it would be nice to come a little closer to both of those things.  Maybe you run a leg down Race and Elm toward Paul Brown Stadium so that the downtown system looks like a block letter lower case “h”, although maybe that would be too close to the current route to be cost effective. 

 

 

Yes the yellow/orange is the track that's already been installed. I tried to match the light orange of the streetcars themselves but I should've converted to rgb so it shows up properly on screen.

 

Thanks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter, but from what I see it will be visually obtrusive.  The DC streetcar simplified the poles-- the poles tat hold the catenary are also streetlights and traffic signals.  The way I am seeing the Cincinnati streetcar come together so far we will have OCS poles, traffic signal poles, light poles (in some areas) and wood poles with cobras.  Seems like way too many poles.  DC also included new streetscaping- building to building, not curb to curb like Cincy.

 

Also, why not just start putting in mast arms traffic signals... We have mast arms over the streetcar, span wire over the streets, how cheesy.  I really wish Cincy could standardize on a classy mast arm signal (not some silly faux historic thing....).  Not burying utils in OTR is also a huge missed opp.  Completely dig up the streets and at the same time put in new, even more obtrusive taller wood poles. 

 

Value engineered to the max.  Just how it has to be here, I guess.

 

From what I understand, the OCS poles will also have street lights on them. Part of the problem is that right now you're seeing all of the poles -- old telephone poles, new telephone poles, old traffic signal poles, new traffic signal poles, new OCS poles.

 

Burying utilities would be great, but they did not "completely dig up the streets" except for in three small areas (Elm Street in front of Music Hall, 12th & Race, and Henry Street). Cincy Bell voluntarily buried their utilities; Duke opted to install new overhead electric poles. With the massive battle that we had to go through in order to get the streetcar built, can you imagine adding another $10 million to the cost of the project for utility burial? Or another $20 million for a full streetscape of the entire route? (Just guessing at numbers, but I bet they're in that range.) I predict that utility burial and new streetscapes will slowly happen as properties are redeveloped along the route. It will take time, but it'll be OK.

Hasn't Cincinnati Bell been all underground for over a century to begin with?  That's what prompted the original suit against the street railway companies that forced the installation of dual overhead wiring.  Leaking current from the poorly bonded rails caused noise on the underground phone lines.  They even bury telephone lines way out in the country.  Maybe some newer fiber optic trunk lines were put in overhead in the last decade? 

Only about 5 OCS poles will have streetlights on them.  I agree, it seems idiotic that there are certain locations where there are street light poles, OCS poles and utility poles all within a few feet of each other.  That's what happens when you are building a system with as little money as possible.

^ But like Travis said, we don't know which poles are going to stay or be removed later.  Obviously the new stuff isn't hooked up yet, so they're not going to take down the old ones yet. 

One option for the Uptown Transit District would be to build platforms like they are doing in Kansas City. The center two doors would have a 14inch platform and the outside two doors would have a 10 inch platform. Streetcar would have level boarding in the center and buses could use the ends of the platforms

Liberty & Race streetcar stop (July 20, 2014):

 

North end of the streetcar route, looking south to Downtown (July 21, 2014):

 

Lots of action on Henry Street (July 21, 2014):

Very nice! I'm looking forward to seeing how the diamond looks when it is done, as well :)

I know that once the route is done they will smooth out the pavement on the perimeter of the track concrete, but are their any plans to re-pave the streets it traverses as well? Would be a great benefit to kill two bird with one stone and really make the streets more welcoming.

I know that once the route is done they will smooth out the pavement on the perimeter of the track concrete, but are their any plans to re-pave the streets it traverses as well? Would be a great benefit to kill two bird with one stone and really make the streets more welcoming.

 

Yup.  All streets  along the route will be repaved from curb to curb.

I know that once the route is done they will smooth out the pavement on the perimeter of the track concrete, but are their any plans to re-pave the streets it traverses as well? Would be a great benefit to kill two bird with one stone and really make the streets more welcoming.

 

The streets carrying the streetcar will be repaved, curb-to-curb, once track construction is complete.

 

Edit:

Yup.  All streets  along the route will be repaved from curb to curb.

 

Ya beat me to it. :clap:

How is it going to only be curb-curb? The sidewalks along most of the route have been so torn up and ruined during the process that they'll also need to be repaved in their entirety. I know out front of my building on Race the corner curb doesn't even exist anymore and they've just poured a smooth pile of blacktop to recreate the general shape of the curb that used to be there. And the sidewalks have huge holes cut out of them that are now just a mess of patchwork. Maybe more extensive repairs of sidewalks will coincide with streetscaping projects out front of redevelopment in the future as they did with Vine Street?

How is it going to only be curb-curb? The sidewalks along most of the route have been so torn up and ruined during the process that they'll also need to be repaved in their entirety. I know out front of my building on Race the corner curb doesn't even exist anymore and they've just poured a smooth pile of blacktop to recreate the general shape of the curb that used to be there. And the sidewalks have huge holes cut out of them that are now just a mess of patchwork. Maybe more extensive repairs of sidewalks will coincide with streetscaping projects out front of redevelopment in the future as they did with Vine Street?

 

The sidewalks will be repaired in the places where they have been torn up. At the very least, they are required to bring them back up to ADA accessibility standards. However, they are not going to rebuild every single sidewalk along the entire route. That would be building-to-building, not curb-to-curb.

Thanks. Makes sense. That's kind of what I figured, a situational basis. It just seems like those situations are almost everywhere. But I'd imagine they'll just redo them to get them in useable shape again with anything further, like full streetscaping, happening later on when needed and unrelated specifically to the streetcar.

A lot of people need to know, very little streetscaping is going to occur in OTR in the near future.  The OTR West TIF district is essentially maxed out. That's how almost all projects have been funded. 3CDC isn't even going after TIF funding right now.

Yeah, as far as I am concerned as an owner, I think this sort of thing should be done via a special assessment, and in many cases it would pass. It's been done in other areas, like for example the 13th street lighting. At least I was asked to approve that assessment, about a year ago.

13th street streetscape was done with Casino TIF dollars.  There are a couple million left there, could go to some OTR or Pendleton streets capes.  Interestingly, the assessment only pays for the cost of electricity and maintenance going forward, not the actual construction.  Also, Streetscapes are A LOT cheaper if utilities aren't buried.  A proposal for burying the utilities between Vine & Race on 13th was $700K for utility work, and $300K for building the entire streetscape (lights, sidewalks, tree wells, etc. The City would pay the $700K and the homeowners along the stretch would each have to pay between $3K and 10K (depending on property) for underground utility connections.

Yeah, as far as I am concerned as an owner, I think this sort of thing should be done via a special assessment, and in many cases it would pass. It's been done in other areas, like for example the 13th street lighting. At least I was asked to approve that assessment, about a year ago.

 

I didn't realize a special assessment could be placed on a small area like an individual street. I guess it makes sense because gaslight neighborhoods work the same way. Who must propose the special assessment? Does the city start the process or does some organization like 3CDC need to propose it?

 

I would love to see a SID placed on the entirety of OTR & Pendleton that would help fund streetcar operations*, streetscaping and utility burrial, and maybe pay for a few of DCI's Downtown Ambassadors to hang out in OTR.

 

(*As I've stated before, I disagree with the premise that Downtown & OTR alone should pay for streetcar operations, but I'm willing to accept this fact and move on so that we can begin seriously talking about Phase 2.)

Not sure how it gets proposed.  I got something in the mail about the special assessment (probably the same one Jim Uber did) and agreed to it. 

Assessments are done directly by the City.  Everyone with a street tree or a decorative light has an assessment.  It's added to your property tax bill.  It is not the same as a Special improvement district (SID).

When I got the special assessment notice I emailed the responsible person at City Hall:

 

Angie Strunc, Architect

City of Cincinnati

Department of Transportation and Engineering

Office of Architecture and Urban Design

City Hall

801 Plum Street, Room 450

Cincinnati, Oh  45202-5704

513.352.3310

 

She referred to this as a "lighting assessment." The letter referred to a very specific area:  "Walnut street between 13th and 14th, on Mercer and 14th streets between vine and walnut." (Funny that my property was not actually in this area, which was the reason for contacting her - so read your special assessment announcements!)

 

I infer that this is not the same as a SID, in that I assume it could overlap with a SID. In other words there must be something special about the ability of the city to purse special assessments for "lighting." Not sure what the actual constraints on this process are, in terms of what it can fund.

 

Since it's 2014 now, maybe the statute that governs the lighting assessments should be amended to allow for "internet assessments" or "security camera assessments" or other such possibly important things that never existed before.