After 8 years and 700 pages...and countless news reports and talk shows...it's incredible how much misinformation is still floating around about the streetcar.  I was in a bar the other day showing some people my Facebook page and they noticed that I had clicked the "like" button for Cincinnati Streetcar, Finish the Streetcar, and Believe in Cincinnati.  They said "well, I'm sure you heard, the streetcar went bust...it's losing money horribly right now."  I said "except that GE and probably Rhinegeist as well as some smaller businesses have already made locational decisions at least in part based on the streetcar."  The people I was with said "Oh no!...those kind of announcements you've been hearing are all very recent...the streetcar has been around 6 or 8 years and was declared a bust years ago...it has lost so much money!" 

 

The only way I can imagine that people would say things like this is if somebody thinks it was completed years ago and has been operating below ridership projections for some time.  This isn't even the alternative reality of some of the media...it's the alternative reality of some imaginary world :drunk:. 

 

It's like when one of the contributors to this thread (sorry, don't remember your screen name :oops:) was told by someone downtown "Oh!  That building over there...it's the Banks...it will never happen!"  (Except they were pointing to a fully leased completed structure, and now GE is going in there yet to boot)!

For page 700 shouldn't there be some kind of mention, recognition of WLW?

like

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

or something?

 

A fake 55krc caller said that 'My sister is a psychic...She's usually pretty good.  She said there's going to be a big riot downtown and the streetcar/Music Hall will be destroyed/Wiped out' (19:50m mark)

 

http://www.55krc.com/media/podcast-brian-thomas-morning-show-55krcMornings/55krc-morning-show-25097156/

Well, when the New Madrid fault goes, Cincinnati's going to turn into another Port au Prince so what's the point of even trying?

For page 700 shouldn't there be some kind of mention, recognition of WLW?

like

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

or something?

 

A fake 55krc caller said that 'My sister is a psychic...She's usually pretty good.  She said there's going to be a big riot downtown and the streetcar/Music Hall will be destroyed/Wiped out' (19:50m mark)

 

http://www.55krc.com/media/podcast-brian-thomas-morning-show-55krcMornings/55krc-morning-show-25097156/

Well, when the New Madrid fault goes, Cincinnati's going to turn into another Port au Prince so what's the point of even trying?

 

Quimbob it's in the bible the city of 7 hills and Rome get destroyed or something like that.

http://www.discoverrevelation.com/Rev_17.html

After 8 years and 700 pages...and countless news reports and talk shows...it's incredible how much misinformation is still floating around about the streetcar.  I was in a bar the other day showing some people my Facebook page and they noticed that I had clicked the "like" button for Cincinnati Streetcar, Finish the Streetcar, and Believe in Cincinnati.  They said "well, I'm sure you heard, the streetcar went bust...it's losing money horribly right now."  I said "except that GE and probably Rhinegeist as well as some smaller businesses have already made locational decisions at least in part based on the streetcar."  The people I was with said "Oh no!...those kind of announcements you've been hearing are all very recent...the streetcar has been around 6 or 8 years and was declared a bust years ago...it has lost so much money!" 

 

The only way I can imagine that people would say things like this is if somebody thinks it was completed years ago and has been operating below ridership projections for some time.  This isn't even the alternative reality of some of the media...it's the alternative reality of some imaginary world :drunk:. 

 

It's like when one of the contributors to this thread (sorry, don't remember your screen name :oops:) was told by someone downtown "Oh!  That building over there...it's the Banks...it will never happen!"  (Except they were pointing to a fully leased completed structure, and now GE is going in there yet to boot)!

 

Reminds me of the "second hand news" guy from SNL Weekend Update.

Cranley continues to blame the streetcar for any and everything.  This time, the lack of ft washington way cap towards the end of his segment

 

http://www.700wlw.com/media/podcast-bill-cunningham-bill_cunningham/cranley-uc-terrorism-80114-25106681/

Things we could have had/saved if streetcar wasn't built according to opponents:

 

Brent spence bridge

Music hall

Union terminal

Ft Washington way cap

Pension

every pothole fixed

Cops

Firefighters

Garbage equipment

Bankruptcy

 

Things the streetcar has been compared to by opponents:

Bp oil spill

Muslim fundamentalist extremist terrorists

Body odor

Ebola, bubonic plague and other diseases

9/11

Abortion

Things we could have had/saved if streetcar wasn't built according to opponents:

 

Brent spence bridge

Music hall

Union terminal

Ft Washington way cap

Pension

every pothole fixed

Cops

Firefighters

Garbage equipment

Bankruptcy

 

Things the streetcar has been compared to by opponents:

Bp oil spill

Muslim fundamentalist extremist terrorists

Body odor

Ebola, bubonic plague and other diseases

9/11

Abortion

I think that's fair

Things we could have had/saved if streetcar wasn't built according to opponents:

 

Brent spence bridge

Music hall

Union terminal

Ft Washington way cap

Pension

every pothole fixed

Cops

Firefighters

Garbage equipment

Bankruptcy

 

Things the streetcar has been compared to by opponents:

Bp oil spill

Muslim fundamentalist extremist terrorists

Body odor

Ebola, bubonic plague and other diseases

9/11

Abortion

 

Ha ha ha ha ha,  so freaking true.

While the Enquirer editorial team endorsed phase 1b of the streetcar up to uptown, harry black(the new city manager as of tomorrow) pretty much confirmed he will carry out the will of the mayor & not council

 

Chris Wetterich says to  expect no additional funding for the streetcar planning of phase 1b reflected in the budget. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/08/no-mystery-here-expect-new-city-manager-to-take.html

Metro will be selling streetcar gift cards later this year. More details when available.

Metro will be selling streetcar gift cards later this year. More details when available.

 

Sounds like a curious fund-raising idea...

I'm wondering if they are like prepaid Mastercards where some of the purchase price is donated to streetcar operations. It would be cool if businesses on the route would give discounts for purchases made with them, thereby covering some of that donation themselves rather than putting it all on the person who bought the card.

 

Or if they are just usable for participating businesses along the route, who would then kick in some money toward operations.

 

Or...or...hmmm

Metro will be selling streetcar gift cards later this year. More details when available.

 

Sounds like a curious fund-raising idea...

I'm wondering if they are like prepaid Mastercards where some of the purchase price is donated to streetcar operations. It would be cool if businesses on the route would give discounts for purchases made with them, thereby covering some of that donation themselves rather than putting it all on the person who bought the card.

 

Or if they are just usable for participating businesses along the route, who would then kick in some money toward operations.

 

Or...or...hmmm

 

Like MUBucks?  :-P

I work right on 12th and Vine where the new streetcar stop is being built on the northeast corner of the intersection. I would love to see a 10 to 20 story apartment tower with ground retail and a garage right there. What do you think

Absolutely not! Anything over 5 stories is not an option in OTR. Now, one block away on Central Pkwy or anywhere downtown is a completely different story.

Absolutely not! Anything over 5 stories is not an option in OTR. Now, one block away on Central Pkwy or anywhere downtown is a completely different story.

 

The way you say that makes it sound absurd, whether that's your opinion or merely an expression of the historic district's guidelines.  If the distance was half a mile or a mile, then maybe that's understandable, but just one block is the difference between "absolutely not!" and "the sky's the limit" is terribly abrupt.  Had OTR not been written-off as a slum for the last few generations it would very likely have taller towers and larger buildings.  Maybe not glass and steel boring boxes, but buildings like the YMCA, Times-Star, or Alms & Doepke.  Even the notion that all OTR has to be (or look) like row houses is not based on reality.  The big (though not necessarily tall) buildings are grand if not monumental expressions, like the old Hudepohl brewery, Woodward High School, and of course Music Hall.  There's room for all these building types, and as the neighborhood becomes even more desirable to live in, thanks in part to the streetcar, there's going to have to be a conversation about larger or taller building types necessary to accommodate the demand, lest the whole neighborhood flip over to become exclusively for the very wealthy. 

I could def see taller buildings along Liberty.

I work right on 12th and Vine where the new streetcar stop is being built on the northeast corner of the intersection. I would love to see a 10 to 20 story apartment tower with ground retail and a garage right there. What do you think

 

I would love to see a random, non-conforming building somewhere in OTR, as long as the architecture and material choices were actually of a high quality. Although I would rather not see yet another garage at this site since it's right next to the existing Gateway Garage (and, oh yeah, a streetcar stop).

Over-the-Rhine is the nations largest National Historic Landmark district with one of a kind scale and density that places it on par with the French Quarter in terms of architectural significance. It's not some random neighborhood. It needs to be preserved as a historic district and tourist destination. I would much rather have the neighborhood be entirely high income than see the scale and density destroyed by some apartment block.

 

Downtown, West End, and anywhere else is a completely different story. Y'all should know that I just got priced out of the neighborhood (rent went from $590 to $1100) and I welcome the change.

I could def see taller buildings along Liberty.

 

Looks like that's included in Schickel Design's Pleasant Street Vision Study:

 

http://www.schickeldesign.com/documents/otrch_vision_study_final_booklet.pdf

 

I wouldnt be in favor of anything giant, i really like the views of the rooftops and steeples from the hillsides.  But, time has arrived when we have to start thinking about Liberty Street not as a border but as a centerpiece of the neighborhood.

Since it doesn't seem like there is any will to really shrink Liberty and make the lots on the southern side of the street bigger (like they were before the street was widened), taller buildings on Liberty would be beneficial for making the scale of the street feel better. Same for the OTR side of Central Parkway.

 

I agree that keeping OTR's skyline of steeples is important to the character of the neighborhood. So I wouldn't want anything on Liberty that significantly interferes with that. (Central Pkwy. is a different story, since it's practically CBD anyway.) There are a lot of empty lots and buildings to fill up before the supply of housing is limited by height restrictions. Especially when you consider Queensgate, the West End, Mt. Auburn, or even Walnut Hills, Covington, Newport. Or beyond. There are so many vacant lots and buildings, parking lots, etc. in the city that it would be a loooong time before encountering problems like SF or NYC have.

I could def see taller buildings along Liberty.

 

Looks like that's included in Schickel Design's Pleasant Street Vision Study:

 

http://www.schickeldesign.com/documents/otrch_vision_study_final_booklet.pdf

 

I wouldnt be in favor of anything giant, i really like the views of the rooftops and steeples from the hillsides.  But, time has arrived when we have to start thinking about Liberty Street not as a border but as a centerpiece of the neighborhood.

 

Wow, those garages are huge. And what's with them fronting Elm & Race? (Page 18 of PDF)

 

Edit: They even front Liberty in one spot (and visibly bridge the alley), seen best on Pg. 20.

There are a lot of empty lots and buildings to fill up before the supply of housing is limited by height restrictions. Especially when you consider Queensgate, the West End, Mt. Auburn, or even Walnut Hills, Covington, Newport. Or beyond. There are so many vacant lots and buildings, parking lots, etc. in the city that it would be a loooong time before encountering problems like SF or NYC have.

 

Maybe so, but desirability doesn't usually cross such distances.  Someone who wants to be within walking distance of downtown or the streetcar aren't interested in Queensgate, Mt. Auburn, Newport, Lower Price Hill, Camp Washington, etc., no matter how nice they may become in the future.  In much the same way, as difficult as the housing situation in San Francisco and New York may be, there's still relatively cheap housing in Oakland and many of the outer boroughs of NYC (Queens especially).  Why?  Because they're too far away, not convenient, have poor transit, crime, or any number of other reasons.  So it wouldn't take much for OTR to go "the sky's the limit" price-wise while nearby neighborhoods continue to fester with low desirability.  Mt. Adams and Hyde Park are already effectively closed out and excessively expensive since their zoning has been massaged to exclude any more dense development.  Even so, the proximity of Mt. Adams to Walnut Hills hasn't really helped it out, nor has Hyde Park's proximity to Evanston and Norwood caused much spill-over development.  Oakley could be cited as an example, though I think there's a somewhat different dynamic there.  Even if Oakley's strength is its proximity to Hyde Park (I could see a similar relationship between the West End and OTR developing) it seems to be more an exception rather than the rule. 

yea i dont like the idea of those garages at all, especially with the bridge over the street and if you look at the amount of spaces vs what is required by code its like they want to add an extra 100 or so spaces beyond what is required. wtf? the whole point of relaxing parking requirements in the cbd and otr was to make it so they didn't have to keep building parking everywhere right?

Cranley and his aides are still ragging against the streetcar. Seems bizarre city employees are rooting for it to fail to save political face.

^Of course they are still saying this.  And they will continue to do so.  Try googling “red herring as a literary device examples.”  This comes up.

 

“Common Example of Red Herring

Some examples of red herring fallacy in casual conversations are given below:

 

Mother: ‘It’s bedtime Jane:’

 

Jane: ‘Mom, how do ants feed their babies?’


This conversation shows how a child tries to distract her mother so that she [Jane] could stay awake a little longer.”

 

OK, here’s our made up example:

 

Adult:  'Why are we sitting on such a huge socio-economic divide in Cincinnati?  Why is so much of our building stock and infrastructure decaying?  What can City Hall do to address these problems?'

 

"Child":  'It’s because the streetcar is diverting resources that could better be spent on higher priorities.'

This conversation shows how politicians try to duck difficult issues by pointing at decisions made in the past, over which the sitting politician has/had little control.

 

OK, somebody google “scapegoat”.

 

I'd worry less about the heights that people can build on the infill in OTR and more about how there doesn't seem to be any attempt to get the more modern buildings to blend in with the old simply by matching the old proportions of window size to bare wall.  I seems like that makes so many of those new buildings down there feel off.  It's actually kind of sad; one is surrounded by all this varying detail and the new designs are so cookie cutter and bland.

All of those anti-streetcar articles seems to have one thing in common... one way or another, they all say, "you can't prove that all of this new development was because of the streetcar." How exactly would you go about proving this? It's not like we can clone Cincinnati, build a streetcar in one but not the other, and then compare how much development happened in each. All you can do is look at evidence we have... dozens of companies stated that they located in OTR or the CBD because of the streetcar. Realtors are saying that people are asking for properties along the streetcar route. But people like Cranley will never believe it, no matter how much evidence there is, much like the Birthers will never believe Obama was born in America, even after his presented his long-form birth certificate.

^ It's not unlike the creationism/intelligent design debate, religion in general, abortion, drugs, economic policy, and any number of divisive and difficult topics.  No matter how much evidence you present, it doesn't matter, because it's not about evidence, facts, or logic to these people.  It's about their own personal beliefs, dogma, and ideology.  Presenting facts seems to only make them dig their heels in further, to actually become even less receptive to alternate interpretations and, dare I say, reality.  It's a fascinating but also frightening and sad aspect of human psychology.

Absolutely not! Anything over 5 stories is not an option in OTR. Now, one block away on Central Pkwy or anywhere downtown is a completely different story.

 

The way you say that makes it sound absurd, whether that's your opinion or merely an expression of the historic district's guidelines.  If the distance was half a mile or a mile, then maybe that's understandable, but just one block is the difference between "absolutely not!" and "the sky's the limit" is terribly abrupt.  Had OTR not been written-off as a slum for the last few generations it would very likely have taller towers and larger buildings.  Maybe not glass and steel boring boxes, but buildings like the YMCA, Times-Star, or Alms & Doepke.  Even the notion that all OTR has to be (or look) like row houses is not based on reality.  The big (though not necessarily tall) buildings are grand if not monumental expressions, like the old Hudepohl brewery, Woodward High School, and of course Music Hall.  There's room for all these building types, and as the neighborhood becomes even more desirable to live in, thanks in part to the streetcar, there's going to have to be a conversation about larger or taller building types necessary to accommodate the demand, lest the whole neighborhood flip over to become exclusively for the very wealthy. 

 

San Francisco all through the Tenderloin and in several other zones have 11-12 story Art Deco apartments plopped on about every other block.  They add a lot of character and variety to the neighborhoods and are some of the more memorable structures in those areas.

I could def see taller buildings along Liberty.

 

Looks like that's included in Schickel Design's Pleasant Street Vision Study:

 

http://www.schickeldesign.com/documents/otrch_vision_study_final_booklet.pdf

 

I wouldnt be in favor of anything giant, i really like the views of the rooftops and steeples from the hillsides.  But, time has arrived when we have to start thinking about Liberty Street not as a border but as a centerpiece of the neighborhood.

 

The city has long made a mistake by not developing Liberty.  Developing the spine of OTR could have a broad ripple effect on the north and south sides of it, a la High Street in the Short North of Columbus.  Bigger buildings on this street would really make OTR feel like a happier Harlem.

Cranley and his aides are still ragging against the streetcar. Seems bizarre city employees are rooting for it to fail to save political face.

 

This is an old game in Cincinnati.  Throw Rome to the lions if it means you get to be king or at least be the recipient of a manila envelope full of cash for the admirable, transparent work you volunteered to do for the City. 

^ One of the comments I made at one of the recent "Plan Cincinnati" community meetings was to consider what a Complete Streets redo of Liberty would mean in terms of gaining buildable sites from the many cut-ups along Liberty today. I"m certain it could be sizable and that ought to be taken into account when re-drawing the zoning maps there. But if the road diet never happens, I told them they need to think about zoning for small-lot development along Liberty. Would be necessarily low-rise, but it would soften the edge of Liberty. Right now, most of those irregular parcels are too small to meet zoning requirements.

^ One of the comments I made at one of the recent "Plan Cincinnati" community meetings was to consider what a Complete Streets redo of Liberty would mean in terms of gaining buildable sites from the many cut-ups along Liberty today. I"m certain it could be sizable and that ought to be taken into account when re-drawing the zoning maps there. But if the road diet never happens, I told them they need to think about zoning for small-lot development along Liberty. Would be necessarily low-rise, but it would soften the edge of Liberty. Right now, most of those irregular parcels are too small to meet zoning requirements.

What kinda response did you get?

^ They're looking into it.

^ One of the comments I made at one of the recent "Plan Cincinnati" community meetings was to consider what a Complete Streets redo of Liberty would mean in terms of gaining buildable sites from the many cut-ups along Liberty today. I"m certain it could be sizable and that ought to be taken into account when re-drawing the zoning maps there. But if the road diet never happens, I told them they need to think about zoning for small-lot development along Liberty. Would be necessarily low-rise, but it would soften the edge of Liberty. Right now, most of those irregular parcels are too small to meet zoning requirements.

What kinda response did you get?

 

If the city waits at least 10 years until the area is mostly built-out, they could then use the sale of this publicly-owned land, including the wide gash created by Liberty St.'s extension from Sycamore to Reading (remove Liberty entirely and sell off the original lots), to fund other city projects.  Similar to how transit agencies can fund construction of subway lines by buying land around stations before the line is constructed, then either selling them outright or doing land leases. 

 

You know, the weird thing about Liberty to me is, despite being massively wide, it operates terribly a connector between Central and Reading. The light timings are (purposely, I assume) awful; I'd say on any given trip from Elm to Reading, I'm stopped at a minimum 2, and often 3 lights. It's similarly bad in the opposite direction. A trip to Newport for a movie takes 10 minutes via 471, and 6 of those are on Liberty.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't understand serious opposition to the road diet for Liberty, since present policy seems to have put that road on a throughput diet already. That means it's mostly being justified for parking, which is going to compare poorly with most any other use.

You know, the weird thing about Liberty to me is, despite being massively wide, it operates terribly a connector between Central and Reading. The light timings are (purposely, I assume) awful; I'd say on any given trip from Elm to Reading, I'm stopped at a minimum 2, and often 3 lights. It's similarly bad in the opposite direction. A trip to Newport for a movie takes 10 minutes via 471, and 6 of those are on Liberty.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't understand serious opposition to the road diet for Liberty, since present policy seems to have put that road on a throughput diet already. That means it's mostly being justified for parking, which is going to compare poorly with most any other use.

 

I suspect that much of the motivation for the widening of Liberty St. in the 1960s was to further maroon Central Parkway and completely deflate its ability to challenge the traditional downtown for office towers.  It's no accident that no expressway ramp feeds directly onto Central Parkway. 

Actually the ROW for the widened Liberty was originally assembled as the alignment for I-71 through downtown Cincinnati.

 

Eventually the Fort Washington Way route was selected.

 

Sort of boggles the mind to think about how different the CBD and OTR would be today had the northern alignment for I-71 been selected.

Actually the ROW for the widened Liberty was originally assembled as the alignment for I-71 through downtown Cincinnati.

 

Eventually the Fort Washington Way route was selected.

 

Sort of boggles the mind to think about how different the CBD and OTR would be today had the northern alignment for I-71 been selected.

 

Contemplating what Cincinnati could be if not for a few backdoor handshakes and the auto-centric "leadership" that's been in Columbus for half a century can be outright deflating. 

 

Optimistically, if OTR and the West End were fully developed within their present footprint, I think few of us would be lamenting the urban collapse of the 1960's.  The basin, clogged with expressways, is still a large community.  This city is a transit network away from turning into a metro of 4+ million.  That's exciting to think how close Cincinnati is to being comparable to a major, international capital city again.  20 years isn't far away.

It's similarly bad in the opposite direction. A trip to Newport for a movie takes 10 minutes via 471, and 6 of those are on Liberty.

 

As an aside, just this weekend my girlfriend & I rode our bikes from central OTR to the Newport AMC for a movie (first time riding there). It's an amazingly easy bike ride. Vine/race/walnut to Central parkway to Eggleston to purple people bridge. Lock up right at the entrance. I'm convinced, based on parking shenanigans, convoluted freeway exits and entrances, etc we were less than 5 minutes slower than if we'd driven.

There are a lot of empty lots and buildings to fill up before the supply of housing is limited by height restrictions. Especially when you consider Queensgate, the West End, Mt. Auburn, or even Walnut Hills, Covington, Newport. Or beyond. There are so many vacant lots and buildings, parking lots, etc. in the city that it would be a loooong time before encountering problems like SF or NYC have.

 

Maybe so, but desirability doesn't usually cross such distances.  Someone who wants to be within walking distance of downtown or the streetcar aren't interested in Queensgate, Mt. Auburn, Newport, Lower Price Hill, Camp Washington, etc., no matter how nice they may become in the future.  In much the same way, as difficult as the housing situation in San Francisco and New York may be, there's still relatively cheap housing in Oakland and many of the outer boroughs of NYC (Queens especially).  Why?  Because they're too far away, not convenient, have poor transit, crime, or any number of other reasons.  So it wouldn't take much for OTR to go "the sky's the limit" price-wise while nearby neighborhoods continue to fester with low desirability.  Mt. Adams and Hyde Park are already effectively closed out and excessively expensive since their zoning has been massaged to exclude any more dense development.  Even so, the proximity of Mt. Adams to Walnut Hills hasn't really helped it out, nor has Hyde Park's proximity to Evanston and Norwood caused much spill-over development.  Oakley could be cited as an example, though I think there's a somewhat different dynamic there.  Even if Oakley's strength is its proximity to Hyde Park (I could see a similar relationship between the West End and OTR developing) it seems to be more an exception rather than the rule. 

 

I think your use of the NYC/outer-borough analogy exactly supports my assertions. What is the CBD analog, in this case? Midtown? The Financial District? The island of Manhattan? Take any one of those, and you have to concede that massive spillover development is what created the gap between desirable location and affordable residences. Covington, Newport, the West End, and Queensgate are very much within walking distance in a city that has adopted walking as a mainstream mode of transportation. So is much of Mount Auburn. Walnut Hills, Corryville, Camp Washington are bike/transit distance (even with the lacking Metro system we have, they're decently covered).

 

By the time saturated development is a legitimate problem in CBD/OTR, there will have been ample opportunity to expand the streetcar network (and the transit network in general, including BRT, bike share, potentially LRT), and people will be willing to walk greater distances (as they are in cities that actually have such problems).

 

I'm more concerned with providing affordable housing opportunities than most people on this board, but my concern does not extend to fear of lacking actual space to provide housing due to height restrictions in OTR. We are so very, very far from that being an issue that it's not worth worrying about right now. If and when it becomes an issue, decades from now, we can reopen the possibility of easing height restrictions. I am confident there will be enough crappy construction from the current era to tear down and construct large towers.

I don't want to discount the development so far in which the streetcar has played a strong role. But I think a good barometer of the streetcar sparking redevelopment will be when the former fast food building and lot that is now the cell phone place at Elm and Liberty gets knocked down and redeveloped.  I feel like a site like that isolates the variable pretty well and that would be directly attributable to being right in front of a streetcar stop.  (Also it would be a prime example of what a streetcar is supposed to do: replace a run down auto oriented development with a denser more productive use. )

I don't want to discount the development so far in which the streetcar has played a strong role. But I think a good barometer of the streetcar sparking redevelopment will be when the former fast food building and lot that is now the cell phone place at Elm and Liberty gets knocked down and redeveloped.  I feel like a site like that isolates the variable pretty well and that would be directly attributable to being right in front of a streetcar stop.  (Also it would be a prime example of what a streetcar is supposed to do: replace a run down auto oriented development with a denser more productive use. )

 

Oddly enough,  I just spoke with the owner of that property yesterday.  They are quite aware of what is happening around them.  There are other factors which will play into the development of that site.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

I don't want to discount the development so far in which the streetcar has played a strong role. But I think a good barometer of the streetcar sparking redevelopment will be when the former fast food building and lot that is now the cell phone place at Elm and Liberty gets knocked down and redeveloped.  I feel like a site like that isolates the variable pretty well and that would be directly attributable to being right in front of a streetcar stop.  (Also it would be a prime example of what a streetcar is supposed to do: replace a run down auto oriented development with a denser more productive use. )

 

Oddly enough,  I just spoke with the owner of that property yesterday.  They are quite aware of what is happening around them.  There are other factors which will play into the development of that site.

 

I mean the market rent for that property has to be far higher now than what the cell store is paying. No wonder the owner of that store was complaining about streetcar construction at Liberty & Elm. He's got to feel the pressure.

If our (and most of the country's) property tax system wasn't so backwardly set up to reward land banking, parking lots, and cheap, depreciated, undersized buildings through ridiculously low assessments, then this sort of redevelopment would be happening a lot faster. 

The 1132 Bar at 1132 Race Street has been a focal center for crack/heroin dealing for decades (even now dealers rule that corner).  The building (which is falling apart) is less than a half block from a streetcar stop.  However, the owner refuses to sell and his property value is in the gutter due to decades of neglect.  I have it on good authority that he has turned down at least two offers to buy his property.  He has no qualms that the bar and ghetto store that share the building have caused and are causing serious public safety issues in the area.  I hope once the streetcar goes online someone will offer him way more than the building is worth before the building crumbles any more or the crime gets any worse.

I don't want to discount the development so far in which the streetcar has played a strong role. But I think a good barometer of the streetcar sparking redevelopment will be when the former fast food building and lot that is now the cell phone place at Elm and Liberty gets knocked down and redeveloped.  I feel like a site like that isolates the variable pretty well and that would be directly attributable to being right in front of a streetcar stop.  (Also it would be a prime example of what a streetcar is supposed to do: replace a run down auto oriented development with a denser more productive use. )

 

Oddly enough,  I just spoke with the owner of that property yesterday.  They are quite aware of what is happening around them.  There are other factors which will play into the development of that site.

 

I mean the market rent for that property has to be far higher now than what the cell store is paying. No wonder the owner of that store was complaining about streetcar construction at Liberty & Elm. He's got to feel the pressure.

 

From stalking the auditor a bit, it seems the guy who owns that property owns a bunch of other Cricket Wireless properties as well. I'm not sure if someone pays him rent, or if he runs the stores too. Either way, the property tax is sure to shoot up eventually, they could be mad about that as their business is likely to decrease as well.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

 

Now that you mention, that would be a brilliant spot for a graduate student / law student.  Coffee Emporium across Central Parkway, plus the chance to add even more to the immediate area.  Also could be a really nice spot for a book store.  Not sure if a Barnes and Noble would work well on CP because of the one across the river on the levee, but maybe a smaller, independent store that could be used as a late night study area.  Is there any book stores like this in the Cincinnati area besides Barnes and Noble?