People are going to get POd about the I71 interchange, they're POd about 75, but...

What's newsworthy?

http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/city-officials-expect-traffic-problems-street-car-constructions-moves-into-heart-downtown-16450.shtml#.U_aTNyi3lWY

Oh, trust me, some people desperately tried to shut it down early-on, but no one ever heard about it. One elected official tried to get me thrown off the DCI Board for proposing it. He told P&G that "Schneider's idea for changing Fort Washington Way is 'messing with the Pyramids.' " -- his exact words as recounted by the Procter exec who told me about it.

 

That's classic! Haha. Must be a member of the Church of the Congested Spaghetti Monster.

People are going to get POd about the I71 interchange, they're POd about 75, but...

What's newsworthy?

http://www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/city-officials-expect-traffic-problems-street-car-constructions-moves-into-heart-downtown-16450.shtml#.U_aTNyi3lWY

 

What a joke. Avril Bleh is complaining about parking in front of their store being restricted for a weekend - I wonder if they and Channel 12 realize anyone in the city can close down parking for any reason whatsoever, be it building a streetcar or bringing in a moving van, getting some drywall delivered, etc. I've gone to the police and closed down parking spots several times. At least the streetcar project team is on top of it enough to give ample warning - by law, the no parking signs only need to be up 18 hours early.

Fun post from the archives...

 

Here are some ideas I've had recently. 

 

#1, a loop of downtown with both directions on McMicken St.  This is a total of about 7 miles of track. 

 

#2, using the Mt. Auburn Tunnel concept for streetcars.  The tunnel could be built to light rail standard for eventual conversion.  If the tunnel is built more steeply, it can be shorter and surface just north of Christ Hospital, avoiding the need for a subway station.  Also, people wishing to travel to the east or west side of downtown could transfer streetcars on this shared section.  Or they could simply stay on since their destination will be reached eventually due to the loop.   

 

Overall view shows how two uptown lines heading to the zoo/hospitals and to DeSalle's corner could eventually *both* converge at Xavier, giving Xavier a lot of options. 

It's gonna take a tunnel.

 

^WCPO 9 on your side exclusive:  Are urbanists planning a Mt. Auburn Tunnel that would find and open the gates of hell?  We'll have the details at 11.  "I don't think we need to spend tax money on opening the gates of hell... when we still need a new Brent Spence Bridge"

^WCPO 9 on your side exclusive:  Are urbanists planning a Mt. Auburn Tunnel that would find and open the gates of hell?  We'll have the details at 11.  "I don't think we need to spend tax money on opening the gates of hell... when we still need a new Brent Spence Bridge"

 

"Just think, had we not spent money on the streetcar, we would have a new music hall, union terminal, Brent spence bridge, mlk interchange, every pothole filled, more cops, more firefighters, and fort Washington way capped"

Don't forget the Dimension X Portal project.

And money left over to fund the ill fated Newport Millennium Intergalactic Tower Needle.

Chris smitherman was on 700wlw.again with lisa well railing against the streetcar again. The guy is literally going off the rails

 

He hit his 100th appearance on 700wlw talking about the streetcar mark well over a year ago.factor in 55krc and I bet he's over 150

Chris Smitherman said that SORTA will cut bus routes to pay for the operation of the streetcar

 

http://www.700wlw.com/media/podcast-big-one-weekends-weekends/lisa-wells-82314-25202826/

Except that the city, not SORTA, is paying the operating costs. So that claim is completely baseless.

  ^ I just hope he keeps digging a bigger hole.

  ^ I just hope he keeps digging a bigger hole.

 

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him?

 

I actually went back and looked at his election history, but the only thing I really concluded is that total votes cast for everybody has just been falling as the population shrinks in the city. For instance, Amy Murray got on council this time with a number of votes that would put her in 18th place 20 years ago. I think with that kind of demographic volatility from election to election, it's kind of hard to say what's going to happen to a candidate in the future.

  ^ I just hope he keeps digging a bigger hole.

 

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him?

 

I actually went back and looked at his election history, but the only thing I really concluded is that total votes cast for everybody has just been falling as the population shrinks in the city. For instance, Amy Murray got on council this time with a number of votes that would put her in 18th place 20 years ago. I think with that kind of demographic volatility from election to election, it's kind of hard to say what's going to happen to a candidate in the future.

 

Yeah Roxanne won the mayor's seat in the 90s with over 50,000 votes.  This past election Cranley beat Qualls to take the seat with only 32,000 votes. 

  ^ I just hope he keeps digging a bigger hole.

 

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him?

 

I actually went back and looked at his election history, but the only thing I really concluded is that total votes cast for everybody has just been falling as the population shrinks in the city. For instance, Amy Murray got on council this time with a number of votes that would put her in 18th place 20 years ago. I think with that kind of demographic volatility from election to election, it's kind of hard to say what's going to happen to a candidate in the future.

 

Smitherman was publicly against Washington park and the fountain square renovation using the exact same arguments as the streetcar. "Bankruptcy", "we don't have the money", "gentrification", "takes away public services", "less cops", etc.  He's managed to completely switch voter support as well

I did some maps of my Uptown Five routes with stops and circles representing an approximate quarter mile walkshed radius around each.

 

Clifton Heights/Clifton

 

 

Short Vine to Zoo

 

 

Taft/Burnet to Hospitals

 

 

Walnut Hills

 

 

Auburn Ave.

 

  ^ I just hope he keeps digging a bigger hole.

 

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him?

 

 

 

To be honest, with the streetcar, there's never going to be a time when "everybody" likes it.  Just like OTR development, there are plenty of people who don't like what's happening.  A majority does, but MANY people think it's a huge waste of money.  There will still be people in Cincy, and especially in Hamilton County, who think the Streetcar is a huge waste of money no matter what happens along the line.  They will be people who live far from downtown and work far from downtown and don't come downtown.  They will dislike it no matter what, and they will love Smitherman still.  he won't change his tune. He will play to the people who don't like it forever.

Getting around to posting my August construction photos.

 

 

Washington Park Junction under construction (August 9, 2014):

 

 

 

Washington Park Junction finished (August 21, 2014):

 

 

 

Washington Park Junction under construction (July 20, 2014):

 

 

 

Washington Park Junction finished (August 21, 2014):

 

12th & Race streetcar stop (August 9, 2014):

 

 

 

12th & Vine streetcar stop (August 24, 2014):

 

Elm Street being reconstructed (August 26, 2014):

 

 

 

Elm Street being reconstructed (August 26, 2014):

 

Streetcar tracks entering the CBD on Walnut (August 23, 2014):

 

 

 

Streetcar tracks entering the CBD on Walnut (August 23, 2014):

 

Travis, I'm giving a presentation next month at Rail~Volution on the Cincinnati Streetcar. Ok if I use this one ^?

Travis, I'm giving a presentation next month at Rail~Volution on the Cincinnati Streetcar. Ok if I use this one ^?

 

Absolutely. If you need a larger version, here it is.

Is it me or does it seem like they are shooting for completion by all star game 2015?  They are FLYING.

^ No way. Cars won't be in Cincinnati by the time of the All-Star Game. But yes, the track work is flying!

 

Travis, thanks!

It may seem that way, but they have a LONG way to go still.  And so far its only been the tracks and stops.  They still have all the overhead wire and testing phases to get through.  They are definitely staying right on schedule though (maybe a little ahead?).  I highly doubt it will be operational by the all star game. 

 

Has anyone seen any updated pics of the actual streetcars being made in Europe? 

 

Is it me or does it seem like they are shooting for completion by all star game 2015?  They are FLYING.

The section of trackway on Walnut and Main from Third Street south may take most of a year to build. Very complicated.

It may seem that way, but they have a LONG way to go still.  And so far its only been the tracks and stops.  They still have all the overhead wire and testing phases to get through.  They are definitely staying right on schedule though (maybe a little ahead?).  I highly doubt it will be operational by the all star game. 

 

Has anyone seen any updated pics of the actual streetcars being made in Europe? 

 

There is also a lot of utility work on Main Street that needs to be finished before they can even start building track.

The section of trackway on Walnut and Main from Third Street south may take most of a year to build. Very complicated.

 

What makes it more complicated than the rest of the line? I would have expected the diamond to be the most complex.

^ Building over bridges.

And not just the Main & Walnut Bridges.  2nd street is also essentially a bridge.  So the entire horse shoe from 3rd on Walnut to 3rd on Main is all bridge. AND unlike the 12th & Race diamond which was easy to shut down and honestly, I live next to it, it wasn't even a hassle at all (when you think of the fact a seemingly major intersection was shut down for 7 weeks), when you consider the fact that 2nd and third have tens of thousands of vehicles a day because they are such a primary feeder for commuters and sports goers you realize how complicated that horseshoe will be.

Meh. Just shut down Fort Washington Way.  :-)

For folks who may not be aware, it is estimated we will get our first CAF Urbos 3 in late summer early fall of 2015.  All Streetcars will be delivered by January 2016.

 

I can't emphasize enough that <b><u>THIS IS A BIG DEAL</u></b>.  Tucson was delayed 10 months due to streetcar vehicle delays and DC has been delayed a couple years because of Streetcar vehicle delays. Kansas City will also be delayed because they have an unrealistic schedule that assumes they will get all of their vehicles before us, even though we placed our order months in advance (they are piggy backing on our streetcar order).  The fact that we may have all 5 vehicles 8-9 months before we are scheduled to begin revenue service shows amazing planning.

 

While the rail installation is flying along, there is a lot of work that still has to be done. Here is a brief summary of less sexy work:

- Every single intersection will need to be rebuilt (they've torn up sidewalks, etc.) 

- 3.6 miles of Cincinnati streets will be repaved. However, the City paves in "lane miles". Each year they only pave 100 lane miles.  The (slightly less than) 3.6 miles that will be repaved are actually closer to 12 "lane miles" since most streets are 4 lanes wide (two parking, two driving).  Meaning, in 2015 (possibly starting this fall) an extra 12 lane miles will be paved by the project on top of the city's regular 100 lane miles.

- The Three power substations will need to be installed.

- A ton of OCS poles still need to be installed (although much of OTR is almost done).

- Attaching the catenary to the poles, etc.

- Shelter installation including electronics (real-time arrival and fare vending)

- all of the rail "parking spots" at the MOF.  There's actually a ton of them (room to park 12 vehicles), but I believe only half will be built in this phase.

 

The timeline that I'm aware of has Walnut Street track reaching 3rd Street no later than January 31, pending weather.

The Straight sections of the 2nd street horseshoe begin on Sept 2 and will be finished "by Opening Day". 

The Curved sections of the 2nd Street horseshoe won't be installed until Fall 2015, effectively the last rail installation of the entire project. 

Main Street will begin likely around mid-March and will take roughly 5 months to complete (finishing in late August/early September 2015). 

I am under the impression Main Street construction will head North, so the Main to 12th curve will likely be the last section.

This means, if things don't go amazingly well allowing them to complete the curves before Opening Day 2015 (which they are saying they won't even try, but I'm hoping that is simply the conservative plan) the 3.6 mile Phase1a Cincinnati Streetcar loop will be completed by Nov 2015, about 6 or so weeks after the arrival of our first Urbos 3.

 

The official agreement has MPD "turning over" the system to the City in mid-March of 2016. Meaning they would be completely finished, packed up and gone at this point.  Under the schedule I just listed, that leaves them 3-4 months after completing the last track to finish everything else (stations, traffic lights, OCS, any remaining street rehab, shelters, MOF tracks, etc.).  Obviously a lot of that happens during track construction, but some things, like OCS happen at the very end, and the OCS wire system above the Walnut & 2nd and the Main & 2nd curves are moderately complicated.

 

Now onto complete speculation: I would guesstimate that the project will install OCS on the OTR loop in mid-late summer 2015 (a few weeks or so before the first vehicle arrives). I'd bet the first vehicle's would begin testing almost immediately.  The OCS for the CBD loop wouldn't be complete until early 2016.  Remember that Testing & Training are two different things.  Testing is about whether the system is built correctly (and would include MPD's participation), while training will likely occur after they are gone and be an entirely SORTA operation. 

 

In case you weren't aware, only 3 Streetcars will ever be operating at the same time.  A 4th will always be ready immediately for standby, and the 5th is "out of rotation" assuming repairs, maintenance, etc. 

 

In operations, I believe this would have a situation where:

One Streetcar is arriving at 2nd Street stop, one is departing the 12th & Vine stop, and one is boarding at the Liberty & Race stop. 

 

Lastly, my hope is one day we acquire a historic streetcar that could be available for charter service or special event service. Imagine, one historic streetcar mixing in on certain nights with our beautiful modern fleet. 

Absolutely. We were very wise to order our cars so far in advance and not have to worry about that holding us up. As far as I know, the only major "unexpected" thing we've found during construction is the collapsed sewer under Elm Street in front of Music Hall. There may be some other unexpected obstacles and/or slight rearrangements in the order things are built, but I think we'll still finish up everything on time.

 

The big question is: by the time Phase 1 begins operating, will the city have started studying uptown extensions? Or will Northern Kentucky be studying an extension across the river?

The fact that we may have all 5 vehicles 8-9 months before we are scheduled to begin revenue service shows amazing planning.

 

 

Yet Mallory, Dahoney, and council were the butt of a round of heavy criticism by Smitherman and talk radio for signing the streetcar contract with CAF before signing the construction contracts back in early 2013. 

 

Also it's important to note that the Second St. ramp down to Pete Rose Way was built with the same sort of special concrete layering as the Main/Walnut bridges and so the streetcar could be extended relatively easily to the base of the Taylor-Southgate Bridge.  However construction of streetcar tracks on that bridge for a Newport extension has not been studied to my knowledge.  Construction of light rail tracks *was* studied in the late 90s, but design specs no doubt have changed since then.  Nevertheless it might be the case that that bridge deck would need to be sawed completely through to build streetcar tracks (unlike the FWW area), greatly complicating construction and increasing costs. 

 

 

 

Is there any structural issue with running a streetcar across the Purple People?

PPB is privately owned now. Which is complete crap. People of KY should have demanded their state maintain it. It is still a bridge! just not a vehicular bridge. The only way you get A streetcar across is paying the owner.  Also, just based on arrival points and design, I think crossing over Taylor Southgate is better anyway. You'd have to pass TS to get to PPB anyway.

Just imagine a streetcar going through the lobby of the Hard Rock Hotel on the PPB! :wink:

 

In case you weren't aware, only 3 Streetcars will ever be operating at the same time.  A 4th will always be ready immediately for standby, and the 5th is "out of rotation" assuming repairs, maintenance, etc. 

 

In operations, I believe this would have a situation where:

One Streetcar is arriving at 2nd Street stop, one is departing the 12th & Vine stop, and one is boarding at the Liberty & Race stop. 

 

 

Just curious, assuming a crowd waiting for the streetcar on 2nd, what would be the expected travel time to Liberty & Race?

 

Just curious, assuming a crowd waiting for the streetcar on 2nd, what would be the expected travel time to Liberty & Race?

 

Also, how many people per hour will the streetcar be able to move? I do worry about the perception after any big event (especially Reds/Bengals game) if a massive crowd is waiting around to squeeze onto the streetcar. It would be great to be able to put all 5 cars into rotation for special events.

Just curious, assuming a crowd waiting for the streetcar on 2nd, what would be the expected travel time to Liberty & Race?

 

Also, how many people per hour will the streetcar be able to move? I do worry about the perception after any big event (especially Reds/Bengals game) if a massive crowd is waiting around to squeeze onto the streetcar. <b>It would be great to be able to put all 5 cars into rotation for special events. </b>

 

If I recall correctly from reading alllll the documents, I believe that is the plan.

I think the only time you would ever see 5 cars at once would be during something massive like the World Series or if we'd gotten the RNC. One car will be out of service and in maintenance at all times.  4 is really the max we would ever operate, but the standard number would be 3.

 

Regarding travel time, I'm going to assume you meant liberty & Elm.  If you wanted to get to liberty & race from 2nd street, you would most likely get off at liberty & elm and walk one block to liberty & race. 

 

An estimated travel time from the Banks to Liberty & Elm is 15 minutes on the streetcar vs. 30 minutes walking (google estimate) vs. 14 minutes biking (google estimate) vs. 8 minutes driving (not including parking).

 

Our Streetcars hold roughly 200 people and complete the loop in about 35 minutes. They each make two loops in just over 1 hour, so at max capacity with 3 operating streetcars that would be about 1200 people in just over 1 hour.

 

 

 

Regarding travel time, I'm going to assume you meant liberty & Elm.  If you wanted to get to liberty & race from 2nd street, you would most likely get off at liberty & elm and walk one block to liberty & race. 

 

 

Thanks for your estimate.  I didn't know the car capacity.

 

I had taken the Liberty and Race comment from your earlier post.

 

"One Streetcar is arriving at 2nd Street stop, one is departing the 12th & Vine stop, and one is boarding at the Liberty & Race stop."

I have a feeling it is going to crush the projections.  What are the current projections, 3,000 day?? 

 

Also I think it is funny when the opposition says, if it is cold, why would anyone use the streetcar?  To me, that would be one of the best times to use it!  Stay warm by walking a short distance to the stop, hop on the streetcar to warm air and relax!  Not, go to your car, wipe off the snow, scrape the ice, start the car, wait until it warms up, then be cold for the whole ride to work!

 

Regarding travel time, I'm going to assume you meant liberty & Elm.  If you wanted to get to liberty & race from 2nd street, you would most likely get off at liberty & elm and walk one block to liberty & race. 

 

 

Thanks for your estimate.  I didn't know the car capacity.

 

I had taken the Liberty and Race comment from your earlier post.

 

"One Streetcar is arriving at 2nd Street stop, one is departing the 12th & Vine stop, and one is boarding at the Liberty & Race stop."

Liberty and Race is a stop, but I don't think anybody is going to ride from the Banks and get off at Liberty and Race when they could get off at Liberty and Elm 10 minutes earlier.

 

An estimated travel time from the Banks to Liberty & Elm is 15 minutes on the streetcar vs. 30 minutes walking (google estimate) vs. 14 minutes biking (google estimate) vs. 8 minutes driving (not including parking).

 

...vs 25 minutes to drive and park.  The time people waste looking for parking is an important factor in these comparisons.

^ Again, I was just using his quote as a guide. I assumed he meant each end and the middle of the route.  From his quote I didn't know about the Liberty and Elm stop.  I'm sorry, Its been a long time since I was in Cincinnati.

 

You do however, raise another question.  If the entire route should take 15 minutes, will it really take 10 minutes to get one block from Elm to Race?

The crush existing a typical Reds game is very brief.  After 30 minutes it's all over.  After a typical weeknight game there are no more than 200-300 people at the bars at The Banks.