The Business Courier confirms that downtown track work will stop around Thanksgiving.

 

Streetcar leadership also acknowledges the issue of cars hitting the streetcar stops (LOL). I noticed in Portland that some of the streetcar stops have reflectors on them making them more visible to cars. However in Portland, the stops are essentially just extensions of the sidewalk, not elevated platforms like we have here.

The stops are seriously beaten up already. It's really a shame people can't avoid a massive concrete structure with their car. The corners are all chipped and look quite bad. Hopefully something can be done to stop this.

The Business Courier confirms that downtown track work will stop around Thanksgiving.

 

Streetcar leadership also acknowledges the issue of cars hitting the streetcar stops (LOL). I noticed in Portland that some of the streetcar stops have reflectors on them making them more visible to cars. However in Portland, the stops are essentially just extensions of the sidewalk, not elevated platforms like we have here.

Did they get charged or they were hit and runs'?

I doubt anyone was charged since they all appear to be people who sideswiped them and then probably just went on their business, albeit angrily. None of the damage appears to be severe enough to be an accident that would've stopped a vehicle in its tracks.

I actually have an acquaintance who bottomed out his truck crossing the tracks at Findlay St and apparently he was able to get the city to pay for the damage caused to his car.  I have no idea how or why the city agreed to that...he was clearly speeding and not paying attention. 

I drove through there Wednesday morning, there's quite a dip.  Still, glad to see they're building the turnouts for phase two.

The dip up at Findlay Street is definitely one that could catch you if you're not paying attention. But you should be paying attention. So anyone who damages their vehicle should be accountable, not the city.

I drive down Findlay every day, and basically come to a stop at both race and elm. They should just have it closed until they can finish the pavement.

Since 2010 we have seen more revenue than the previous year. You can't attribute this to the streetcar. Let's not discredit actual streetcar related benefits by claiming all positive developments are because of the streetcar.

 

For over five years, there have been business opening near the route and residents moving to OTR citing the streetcar as a factor in their decision. It doesn't mean that it was the only factor, but it was somewhere between a small bonus (meaning they would have still located here, even without the streetcar) to a huge selling point (meaning that they would not currently be in the city if it had been cancelled). Without the streetcar, GE may have located at The Banks or Oakley, but may have chosen an exurban location.

 

Without a doubt, the streetcar had already made an economic impact and will continue to do so, but pinning down exact numbers will be really hard. Hardcore opponents will say it had no effect; hardcore supporters will likely say that 100% of every economic development near the route should be attributed to the streetcar.

 

"hardcore supporters will likely say that 100% of every economic development near the route should be attributed to the streetcar."

 

I agree 100%

 

If the case ends up being that new development on or around the route is taxed to pay for the streetcar with zero money coming from the general budget, then theoretically you should be able to count that development as attributed to the streetcar, even if it is only like you say a little bonus.

 

Then if a taxing district pays for the whole streetcar and comes from no where else, we can tally all development along its route and say it is because / part of the streetcar.  What then would the opponents have to argue about?

 

That is the whole thing I think that frustrates people.  No matter what happens, the opponents and Cranley have made it a no-win situation.  All the strategic investments in the core attribute to the redevelopment and a $133 million investment in infrastructure is certainly one of those investments that can be attributed to redevelopment.

 

Well, I certainly agree with your logic. If OTR/CBD are expected to pay for 100% of the streetcar's operating costs, then we should be able to claim that 100% of the development along the route is because of the route and those additional tax dollars should go to our neighborhoods.

Good idea. Those who bear the cost get the benefit. Eliminates the free rider dillema making it fair. We all know that wont happen though...

Doubt there's going to be a tax district for the streetcar.

 

Ever or initially?

Probably never for Phase 1, perhaps for subsequent phases.

Probably never for Phase 1, perhaps for subsequent phases.

 

Is this because there isn't enough time to make it happen and no entity (DCI) has stepped up to coordinate the implementation?

 

Would it be fair to future phase properties if phase 1 properties are not in a taxing district for streetcar operation but future phase properties would be?

Probably never for Phase 1, perhaps for subsequent phases.

 

Is this because there isn't enough time to make it happen and no entity (DCI) has stepped up to coordinate the implementation?

 

Would it be fair to future phase properties if phase 1 properties are not in a taxing district for streetcar operation but future phase properties would be?

 

If we don't have a SID to pay for streetcar operations in the CBD and OTR, I suspect it will be because:

 

* SID's are very difficult to set up. I was involved in setting up the DCI SID, and I estimated for someone who asked that it would cost $200,000 to $300,000 to do the same thing for the streetcar ...

* And it would probably take a year or more to do it ...

* And many commercial landlords in the CBD won't sign the petition to increase their taxes ...

* And unless 3CDC really got behind it in OTR, it would take forever to getting signatures from all the other OTR property owners, assuming the land records for OTR are in really good shape ...

* And then you have to repeat the whole process every four or five years.

 

Other than those things and maybe a dozen more obstacles, I see no problem creating, adopting and maintaining a SID in place to pay for streetcar operations.

The Downtown Cincinnati Incorporated (DCI) folks are a fickle bunch.  They were proponents of the streetcar before the most recent mayoral campaign when they began to pretend they had no interest or position in the project.  My feeling is that they won't take a stand on anything unless Cranley is pushing it.

Probably never for Phase 1, perhaps for subsequent phases.

 

Is this because there isn't enough time to make it happen and no entity (DCI) has stepped up to coordinate the implementation?

 

Would it be fair to future phase properties if phase 1 properties are not in a taxing district for streetcar operation but future phase properties would be?

 

If we don't have a SID to pay for streetcar operations in the CBD and OTR, I suspect it will be because:

 

* SID's are very difficult to set up. I was involved in setting up the DCI SID, and I estimated for someone who asked that it would cost $200,000 to $300,000 to do the same thing for the streetcar ...

* And it would probably take a year or more to do it ...

* And many commercial landlords in the CBD won't sign the petition to increase their taxes ...

* And unless 3CDC really got behind it in OTR, it would take forever to getting signatures from all the other OTR property owners, assuming the land records for OTR are in really good shape ...

* And then you have to repeat the whole process every four or five years.

 

Other than those things and maybe a dozen more obstacles, I see no problem creating, adopting and maintaining a SID in place to pay for streetcar operations.

 

And yet the mayor seems to taunt the OTR steetcar supporters for not getting one set up and going.  Well, I am a private citizen with a full time job and no legal expertise, so I wouldn't know where to start. 

to a total general and restricted budget of $998,000,000.00...

 

I already knew this, but is anyone else shocked that the City of Cincinnati spends about $1 BILLION per year? The magnitude of the city government is just mind boggling. One would think that there would be plenty of room to squeeze out enough money for a streetcar project, but that money is apparently already accounted for. After all, it seems like every year the city threatens to close down the swimming pools because they don't have enough money to pay the lifeguards $10 per hour. The City is living paycheck to paycheck, so to say.  :|

A very large portion of that is MSD and Water Works. So, no, I'm not surprised.

to a total general and restricted budget of $998,000,000.00...

 

I already knew this, but is anyone else shocked that the City of Cincinnati spends about $1 BILLION per year? The magnitude of the city government is just mind boggling. One would think that there would be plenty of room to squeeze out enough money for a streetcar project, but that money is apparently already accounted for. After all, it seems like every year the city threatens to close down the swimming pools because they don't have enough money to pay the lifeguards $10 per hour. The City is living paycheck to paycheck, so to say.  :|

 

Yep. The streetcar's operating costs would be less than 1/2 of 1% of the city's annual operating budget but critics act like it will bankrupt the city.

Cincinnati's credit is better than 80% of all the cities in the U.S. So if something that consumes 1/2 of 1% of the city's budget can throw it into bankruptcy, then lots of American cities have lots to worry about.

EXCLUSIVE: City finds more surplus money that could be used to operate streetcar

Oct 20, 2014, 1:27pm EDT Updated: Oct 20, 2014, 4:40pm EDT

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The city of Cincinnati's surplus revenues extend not only to its general revenue fund but to the fund that provides money to operate the Metro bus system.

 

Last week, the city reported that it received $14 million more in revenue than it had anticipated in its 2014 fiscal year, which ended on June 30. The city received $1.6 million more in income tax than it anticipated.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/10/exclusive-city-finds-more-surplus-money-that-could.html

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

Nice! I'm wondering how long before a developer buys that lot from 3CDC who has stated have no personal desire to develop it themselves but are more than happy to sell it to another developer if they offer the right price. And based on conversations with people there means waiting until the streetcar makes the property worth a fortune.

Nice! I'm wondering how long before a developer buys that lot from 3CDC who has stated have no personal desire to develop it themselves but are more than happy to sell it to another developer if they offer the right price. And based on conversations with people there means waiting until the streetcar makes the property worth a fortune.

 

What is the reason 3CDC doesnt develop this lot themselves? It is a great location at one of the busier sections in that area. I wonder if its because they dont want to lose the cash flow generated from the lot for the time being?

That's basically what I was told. They have so many other potential lots and buildings in their lineup that they'd rather get to first while sitting on a revenue producer. Yet they still desire that spot housing a building. It's just not in their personal plans (well, as of a couple years ago that is, who knows about now) to do it themselves.

Nice! I'm wondering how long before a developer buys that lot from 3CDC who has stated have no personal desire to develop it themselves but are more than happy to sell it to another developer if they offer the right price. And based on conversations with people there means waiting until the streetcar makes the property worth a fortune.

 

What is the reason 3CDC doesnt develop this lot themselves? It is a great location at one of the busier sections in that area. I wonder if its because they dont want to lose the cash flow generated from the lot for the time being?

 

That's the best site in OTR for a new office building. My guess is that's what they're saving for -- for the day when office rents have recovered and OTR and the north frame of the CBD are more populated.

Interesting theory. That could work well with bookending that stretch of Vine between Central and LIberty with the 15th and Vine office building. Plus with the future office building in Mercer Commons this could be a really great 24 hour stretch.

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

I guess the one benefit of installing them now is that for the next two years, people will see the shelters as they walk around OTR and start to understand the streetcar route a bit better.

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

12th and Race went up today too.  I snapped some pics of the install:

 

 

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

I guess the one benefit of installing them now is that for the next two years, people will see the shelters as they walk around OTR and start to understand the streetcar route a bit better.

 

are you sure it's cracked? the reason i ask is there is a bus shelter on Clifton that i thought the exact same thing untill i got close and it was artwork

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1429389,-84.5192515,3a,37.5y,65.49h,80.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suwTlj1FuUttBBOJZomEOKw!2e0!6m1!1e1

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

I guess the one benefit of installing them now is that for the next two years, people will see the shelters as they walk around OTR and start to understand the streetcar route a bit better.

 

I'm amazed at how people are still completely confused by the streetcar route, despite being able to see the tracks.  I've heard people ask out loud "is this where the streetcar is going?" and other people with no clue as to what they're looking at.  I've overheard people not understanding that the tracks on one street are part of the same system as tracks on another street. 

 

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

I guess the one benefit of installing them now is that for the next two years, people will see the shelters as they walk around OTR and start to understand the streetcar route a bit better.

 

I'm amazed at how people are still completely confused by the streetcar route, despite being able to see the tracks.  I've heard people ask out loud "is this where the streetcar is going?" and other people with no clue as to what they're looking at.  I've overheard people not understanding that the tracks on one street are part of the same system as tracks on another street.

 

Haha. You're not kidding. I've heard some insanely ignorant things while walking the streets.

 

My favorite though was just last Saturday, a group of four were walking behind me and a guy said, "I can't believe they're building a rickety old trolley. I just got back from Vienna and they've got a nice, sleek new team system.  Why don't they build something nice like that?"

 

Boy is he in for a surprise. LOL

^This still amazes me. How would a city even go about building a new, old system? It's so confusing. What, are awe going to go around and buy a bunch of used, old trains, find some salvaged old rails we can just drop into our streets, and call it a day? It makes no sense.

 

I can't wait to see the reaction of people when they realize how insanely nice and modern our system and trains are. The moment they start testing the trains  I think a lot of people who are on the fence will understand and fall to the correct side of the argument.

My uncle who retired to florida 10 years ago JUST told me that the streetcar is never going to happen. That was a fun conversation.

There is still massive misinformation out there. I have heard people i work with downtown say that it is only going to go one block north and one block south of fountain square.  When there are tracks in the ground outside of that.

 

^This still amazes me. How would a city even go about building a new, old system? It's so confusing. What, are awe going to go around and buy a bunch of used, old trains, find some salvaged old rails we can just drop into our streets, and call it a day? It makes no sense.

 

 

To be fair, that's what Kenosha, Little Rock, Memphis, Tampa, and Dallas did.

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

Yup...definitely shattered. 

 

Yeah, there are always people hanging around in that stop.  I think the city is in for a lot of vandalism until the streetcar starts running.  I agree, its too soon to have finished the stops.  They should have just installed everything EXCEPT the glass panels and benches.  That would prevent loitering and would have saved the city the cost of replacing broken or vandalized panels.  There will also be a lot of graffiti removal to contend with as well. 

 

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

I guess the one benefit of installing them now is that for the next two years, people will see the shelters as they walk around OTR and start to understand the streetcar route a bit better.

No security cameras at the stops?

^This still amazes me. How would a city even go about building a new, old system? It's so confusing. What, are awe going to go around and buy a bunch of used, old trains, find some salvaged old rails we can just drop into our streets, and call it a day? It makes no sense.

 

 

To be fair, that's what Kenosha, Little Rock, Memphis, Tampa, and Dallas did.

 

I've ridden both the Kenosha and Little Rock trains and they were quite nice. It was fun to be in an old, refurbished trolly car.

^This still amazes me. How would a city even go about building a new, old system? It's so confusing. What, are awe going to go around and buy a bunch of used, old trains, find some salvaged old rails we can just drop into our streets, and call it a day? It makes no sense.

 

 

To be fair, that's what Kenosha, Little Rock, Memphis, Tampa, and Dallas did.

 

I've ridden both the Kenosha and Little Rock trains and they were quite nice. It was fun to be in an old, refurbished trolly car.

 

What makes more sense is to build a modern system and refurbish a single old trolley car for private charters, parades, special events etc.

What's interesting about the Kenosha system (ok system is being generous, it's just a small loop) is how simple and inexpensive it was built.  There's not much street running (though a lot of street crossings), so much of the track is in grass.  There's stops at just about every block, but they're just concrete sidewalks (no level boarding) so it's easy to build and convenient.  There's no complicated catenary, just simple trolley wire with single poles and mast arms.  It's very much like streetcars used to be built, and I think there's certainly value in the lessons we can learn from that.  Definitely more "bang for the buck" here.  Of course a critical thing is that it's a link from a new housing development to the existing Metra commuter rail station.  Transit begets transit, and it connects fairly high density housing through the business district.  Win win win.  One of their cars is even painted up in the Cincinnati Street Railway livery from the PCC days!

What's interesting about the Kenosha system (ok system is being generous, it's just a small loop) is how simple and inexpensive it was built.  There's not much street running (though a lot of street crossings), so much of the track is in grass.  There's stops at just about every block, but they're just concrete sidewalks (no level boarding) so it's easy to build and convenient.  There's no complicated catenary, just simple trolley wire with single poles and mast arms.  It's very much like streetcars used to be built, and I think there's certainly value in the lessons we can learn from that.  Definitely more "bang for the buck" here.  Of course a critical thing is that it's a link from a new housing development to the existing Metra commuter rail station.  Transit begets transit, and it connects fairly high density housing through the business district.  Win win win.  One of their cars is even painted up in the Cincinnati Street Railway livery from the PCC days!

 

Yeah I've been out there, and that line serves a very different purpose than Cincinnati's.  It helps give Kenosha a bit of a small time resort feel which is how I think they are branding themselves due to de-industrialization killing the original economy of that town.

Welp. Kiss that parking permit goodbye? It got a pretty lukewarm reception from council as well.

 

​EXCLUSIVE: $300-a-year parking permits for Over-the-Rhine might be illegal

 

A 2012 Ohio Supreme Court case may bar the city of Cincinnati from imposing a $300-a-year residential parking permit fee on Over-the-Rhine residents and using the proceeds to pay to operate the streetcar.

 

The case, Drees v. Hamilton Township, centers on the Warren County community's attempts to impose impact fees on developers building new residential or commercial property.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/10/23/exclusive-300-a-year-parking-permits-for-over-the.html?ana=twt

The key line at the end:

 

"The city can still charge for a residential permit fee but the proceeds can only cover the costs of the program, [former Cincinnati city solicitor John] Curp said."

 

Of course, this is his legal opinion. So it could be argued in court if someone sues the city if the city goes forward.

The key line at the end:

 

"The city can still charge for a residential permit fee but the proceeds can only cover the costs of the program, [former Cincinnati city solicitor John] Curp said."

 

Of course, this is his legal opinion. So it could be argued in court if someone sues the city if the city goes forward.

 

This line from the justices decision is also important:

 

"The assessment results in no direct service to the landowner … When the amount of the fee exceeds the cost and expense of the service, the fee constitutes a tax."

 

So in Ohio, these parking permits will be considered a tax. What's interesting is that even raising the parking meter fees to pay for the streetcar could also be argued against based on this same logic.

 

This is an example of a problem the parking deal with Xerox was attempting to sidestep.

What's interesting is that even raising the parking meter fees to pay for the streetcar could also be argued against based on this same logic.

 

Except, in the case of parking meters, the fee is not targeted to specific people. The problem here is specific people (OTR residents) being charged for a general benefit (a part of the city's transit system). Anyone can park at a meter, not just OTR residents, so it's different. But, yes, there is a specific stipulation regarding parking meter revenue that had a similar effect, which the Xerox deal attempted to skirt.

12th & Vine shelter was constructed yesterday.

 

I am still concerned that they're putting up the shelters too soon. Yesterday, the shelter at Elm & Liberty had people loitering in it and one of the glass panels appeared to be shattered. (It looked like a broken car windshield -- still in one piece but all cracked up.)

 

Yup...definitely shattered. 

 

 

Wow! MPD isn't playing. This is fixed already.

Ah, the broken streetcar shelter windows policy.

Here are some photos from last Wednesday night, 10/22/14.  The cut was filled with concrete on Thursday.

 

 

 

 

Photos from Sunday 10/26/14:

 

 

 

Followup: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2014/10/27/ohio-elections-commission-cant-police-political-tweets-court-says/18028295/

 

"The Ohio Elections Commission can't crack down on Tweets -- even if those 140-character messages include false political information, a Cincinnati federal judge ruled on Monday."

 

"At the center of this fight: a series of 140-character messages posted on Twitter in 2011 by a Cincinnati anti-tax group, COAST, which urged support for a charter amendment that would have blocked the streetcar project. COAST said the streetcar was diverting money from the city's fire department, causing services to be reduced."

 

"A pro-streetcar group, Cincinnatians for Progress, filed a complaint against COAST in November 2011, arguing that 20 tweets posted by the group violated Ohio's law banning false statements in political campaigns. The Ohio Elections Commission dismissed the complaint, finding no probable cause that COAST had violated the ban."