Why can't Cincinnati have a Bean?

 

Glenetta Krause is a Clifton resident.

 

One summer, my friend and I took a little road trip to Chicago.

 

She is born and raised on the West Side and can tell a lot about a person by the grade school they went to. I think of her as Old Cincinnati. I moved to Cincinnati when I was in my 20s and have been here for only 25 years. I think of myself as young, vibrant, New Cincinnati. We are the same age but in many ways she is old and I am young. It strikes me that, on our own City Council, David Mann seems "younger" than John Cranley. I guess that can happen in the city that is home of Oil of Olay.

 

So we went to Millennium Park. We went to the Bean. If you haven't seen it, it's a mirrored sculpture, a kidney bean the size of a small whale. We surely didn't travel to the Windy City only to see the Bean – there was some shopping to do – but there we were looking at the Bean, taking dozens of pictures of ourselves. It lay on the sidewalk, a gigantic piece of art that drew hundreds of tourists to it in the half hour we spent there. Many of us bought a drink at the little stand, and my friend bought sunglasses.

 

I said, "Man, Cincinnati needs something like this."

 

Cont

I wonder what it would cost to get a streetcar clad in polished stainless steel panels. We could one-up Chicago by having a rolling bean. We could bring it out whenever the Cubs are in town.

Why can't Cincinnati have a Bean?

 

Glenetta Krause is a Clifton resident.

 

One summer, my friend and I took a little road trip to Chicago.

 

She is born and raised on the West Side and can tell a lot about a person by the grade school they went to. I think of her as Old Cincinnati. I moved to Cincinnati when I was in my 20s and have been here for only 25 years. I think of myself as young, vibrant, New Cincinnati. We are the same age but in many ways she is old and I am young. It strikes me that, on our own City Council, David Mann seems "younger" than John Cranley. I guess that can happen in the city that is home of Oil of Olay.

 

So we went to Millennium Park. We went to the Bean. If you haven't seen it, it's a mirrored sculpture, a kidney bean the size of a small whale. We surely didn't travel to the Windy City only to see the Bean – there was some shopping to do – but there we were looking at the Bean, taking dozens of pictures of ourselves. It lay on the sidewalk, a gigantic piece of art that drew hundreds of tourists to it in the half hour we spent there. Many of us bought a drink at the little stand, and my friend bought sunglasses.

 

I said, "Man, Cincinnati needs something like this."

 

Cont

 

That was a really good piece. Thanks for posting.

I'm probably going to get reamed for this, but I think the catenary poles look terrible. There's so many of them, far more than I imagined there would be. I feel we were a bit misled with the promise that "you will barely notice the overhead wires."

I'm probably going to get reamed for this, but I think the catenary poles look terrible. There's so many of them, far more than I imagined there would be. I feel we were a bit misled with the promise that "you will barely notice the overhead wires."

 

The only place it's really bad is when it's going around a curve and there is a more complex arrangement of wires to support that. On straight sections, it is barely noticeable, especially where they have been able to combine streetlights with the OCS poles.

Yea I feel in that first pic posted a couple back, it looks like there's a ton of poles, but when driving through there or walking along I haven't noticed them much.

In Munich wherever possible, buildings are used instead of poles.  The hot wires are basically suspended from the surrounding buildings.  More wires but fewer poles, which is actually good.  Street lights are often hung the same way.

^ Pretty sure I posted something about the spider-web at 12th and Race last year sometime. Most people won't be bothered by the OCS on straight runs.

Watch the language.

Dallas's comically short streetcar line opened today.  Appears to be mostly single-tracked and they only ordered two streetcars.  Interestingly, it is the first streetcar system in the U.S. to use battery power. 

https://www.dart.org/riding/dallasstreetcar.asp

 

You will see as the streetcar crosses the viaduct that there is no overhead wire.  It links up with a wire at the far end of the bridge.

 

This streetcar also travels on true streetcar tracks, not the light rail tracks we have.  That means there is no potential for conversion to light rail in the future. 

Wow, looks like there's barely any redevelopment potential for most of the route, weird...

^ Here's a good test to do some Sunday morning when there is little traffic.

 

Starting at Sixth and Main, drive the current streetcar route under construction including the backtracking at Findlay and then continue up Vine to Jefferson and Corry.

 

Next, starting again at Sixth and Main -- where the MetroPlus route begins -- drive the MetroPlus route to Jefferson and Corry.

 

When I did it, with no traffic, the extended streetcar route was six minutes longer -- right in the middle of the range AJ writes above. Then consider the friction that will be added when there's more traffic at busier times and when the area around Findlay gets repopulated, as it surely will. The delta will surely go to ten or more minutes.

 

Plus, constructability. Right now we're building one alignment of streetcar tracks on (mostly) one-way streets. Going up Vine, we'll be building two alignments of track on a two-way street, plus maybe moving Duke's facilities somewhere. Not easy. You're not going to eliminate parking on Vine, because there is hardly any off-street parking available there, not even much land to build it if you wanted to.

 

Vine Street will just gum up the whole system. Even in good weather. Throw in a little ice or a car crash, and it could be a real mess.

 

The other thing is rider comfort. Most people stand on a streetcar. Sometime, ride the 46 or 78 or MetroPlus both directions between OTR and UC -- standing up the entire time. You get jerked around a lot. I observe people on the Portland Streetcar as it travels down the hill from Portland State to the South Waterfront. More than other segments of that line, what appear to be regular on that part of the line users seem to always grab a seat if they can.

 

The forest route -- going up Clifton and through the woods pretty much eliminates the time penalty, although you are still travelling west to Elm before backtracking to the east to get to UC.

 

If we were to convert the downtown streetcar alignment to light rail as the spine of a regional system someday, going straight up Main and Walnut from 12th, tunneling under the face of Mt. Auburn and daylighting the tunnel behind Christ and then to Auburn Avenue to Corry to UC may be a better alternative.

 

These issues you're mentioning make me think back to what a missed opportunity it was to insist on the Phase 1b so many years back rather than just build out the basin system.  The Vine Street route makes a lot of sense from a mental perspective, in that it seems like most folks to be the fastest and most direct way to get up the hill, but just by looking at the map you can see that the the institutions in Uptown generally line up with those downtown: Main to Auburn to the hospitals and Elm to Clifton to Ludlow.

Some photos from the construction at 12th & Main....

 

Trench being built from Central Parkway to 12th:

 

 

 

 

One rail:

 

 

Two rails:

 

 

Bumping out the sidewalk (we need to do this everywhere around OTR, not just along the streetcar route!):

 

 

So much redevelopment potential... if only the building's owners felt the same way:

 

^ Here's a good test to do some Sunday morning when there is little traffic.

 

Starting at Sixth and Main, drive the current streetcar route under construction including the backtracking at Findlay and then continue up Vine to Jefferson and Corry.

 

Next, starting again at Sixth and Main -- where the MetroPlus route begins -- drive the MetroPlus route to Jefferson and Corry.

 

When I did it, with no traffic, the extended streetcar route was six minutes longer -- right in the middle of the range AJ writes above. Then consider the friction that will be added when there's more traffic at busier times and when the area around Findlay gets repopulated, as it surely will. The delta will surely go to ten or more minutes.

 

Plus, constructability. Right now we're building one alignment of streetcar tracks on (mostly) one-way streets. Going up Vine, we'll be building two alignments of track on a two-way street, plus maybe moving Duke's facilities somewhere. Not easy. You're not going to eliminate parking on Vine, because there is hardly any off-street parking available there, not even much land to build it if you wanted to.

 

Vine Street will just gum up the whole system. Even in good weather. Throw in a little ice or a car crash, and it could be a real mess.

 

The other thing is rider comfort. Most people stand on a streetcar. Sometime, ride the 46 or 78 or MetroPlus both directions between OTR and UC -- standing up the entire time. You get jerked around a lot. I observe people on the Portland Streetcar as it travels down the hill from Portland State to the South Waterfront. More than other segments of that line, what appear to be regular on that part of the line users seem to always grab a seat if they can.

 

The forest route -- going up Clifton and through the woods pretty much eliminates the time penalty, although you are still travelling west to Elm before backtracking to the east to get to UC.

 

If we were to convert the downtown streetcar alignment to light rail as the spine of a regional system someday, going straight up Main and Walnut from 12th, tunneling under the face of Mt. Auburn and daylighting the tunnel behind Christ and then to Auburn Avenue to Corry to UC may be a better alternative.

 

These issues you're mentioning make me think back to what a missed opportunity it was to insist on the Phase 1b so many years back rather than just build out the basin system.  The Vine Street route makes a lot of sense from a mental perspective, in that it seems like most folks to be the fastest and most direct way to get up the hill, but just by looking at the map you can see that the the institutions in Uptown generally line up with those downtown: Main to Auburn to the hospitals and Elm to Clifton to Ludlow.

 

If you are talking about the design of phase 1b, as I mentioned before it made sense to go with this less-than-ideal routing if it was built for free from the local perspective, which it would have been the case if Kasich had not been elected.  If we are instead building it with all-local dollars, or trying to design something that can win a different type of grant, then the route might be different. 

I am so so so so so glad that we went with the light rail tracks in Cincy. I am in Portland right now for work (you're going to have to fight me to get me back on a plane) and I've been using a lot of transit since I've gotten here. The streetcar is awesome (although they probably need to add some cars, rush hour gets packed!), but I've gotta say I'm a huge fan of the MAX. It would be great to have that dual integration in the future.

And this week's front page headline in the Cranley Enquirer...

 

 

New streetcar revenue estimates not as rosy

 

City taxpayers may have to pick up more of the tab to run Cincinnati's streetcar.

 

New revenue estimates were unveiled on Tuesday, and the numbers aren't as rosy as previously projected. The streetcar is expected to make at least $500,000 less per year, mostly because fares and advertising will not generate as much money.

 

Cont

 

More details are expected to be revealed during City Council's transportation committee meeting at 1 p.m. Tuesday.

So, instead of P&G or Macy's stepping up to sponsor the streetcar and help fund operations, they are afraid to do so because Cranley has kept campaigning against it the entire time he's been in office and corporations don't want to touch the hot potato.

On that note. Credit to @teachbarefoot via Twitter:

 

maybe the corporations are smarter than you think.

He already deleted the tweet.

Track work is 70% done.

 

Overhead Wiring is 77% done.

 

Fun fact: if the delay never happened we would receive our first streetcar this month. Currently scheduled for September.

 

All from Jason Williams (Enquirer) tweets

Enquirer publishes second streetcar hit piece of the day, this time from Charlie Winburn:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/04/14/winburn-million-reasons-kill-streetcar/25771285/

So, instead of P&G or Macy's stepping up to sponsor the streetcar and help fund operations, they are afraid to do so because Cranley has kept campaigning against it the entire time he's been in office and corporations don't want to touch the hot potato.

 

I would bet my life savings P&G, Macy's or any other local Fortune 500 company gives two craps what Cranley thinks, and in no way are they afraid of him or what he could do.

Streetcar team details more complete cost estimate for 2013 pause

Chris Wetterich - Staff reporter and columnist - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The cost of pausing the Cincinnati streetcar project for nearly three weeks in December 2013 could exceed $2 million, depending on what kind of deal the city can strike with its consultant on the manufacturing of streetcar vehicles.

 

Under questioning from council’s transportation committee, the city’s streetcar team said it is negotiating an overrun payment to its consultant in Elmira, N.Y., where the vehicles are being made. The vehicles will be delayed six months from the original schedule. The streetcar team’s conservative estimate is that the consultant could have to be paid $1 million, but it is continuing to negotiate that amount, and it could be less.

 

That payment would bring the cost of the three-week pause to more than $2 million, which would come out of the project’s $9.7 million contingency fund. The city already has spent $1 million because of the City Council’s decision to delay the project.

 

Cont

The recently proposed and apparently absolutely essential Cranley Viaduct, if built, introduces some interesting possibilities for extending the streetcar on the unused rapid transit right-of-way into South Cumminsville and Northside.  The Cranley Viaduct touches down very close to the old CH&D ROW, then meets Elmore St. in line with it.  This means that if a streetcar or light rail line were built in the subway, then on the old surface ROW, then on the Cranley Viaduct, the line could continue under I-74 on the old CH&D ROW directly into Northside. 

 

 

The issue with using the existing Ludlow Viaduct to link transit on the old ROW or on Ludlow Ave. and Northside is that the deck of the bridge would likely need to be completely rebuilt which would be very expensive and cause a big year-long disruption.  Also streetcars or light rail trains would have to brake on the viaduct's mild slope to stop at the 5-way intersection at the viaduct's base. 

 

Use of the Cranley Viaduct would avoid the disruption and create transit access to this forgotten section of the city...link it not only to downtown but also to neighboring Northside.  If an underpass can't be efficiently punched through I-74's berm then the line could simply reach Northside via Spring Grove. 

 

 

 

The Cranley Viaduct can only be used for rail transit later if it is built with a sacrificial slab now. Considering that DOTE wasn't even planning on building the new Western Hills Viaduct with the ability to support rail, I don't think they are considering it for this new viaduct.

I still think Jake should write the mayor suggesting this idea.

 

Is the CH&D ROW  through Northside the one that lines up with Vandalia St.? If so the Gantry (probably among other stuff) is now in the way.  I noticed for the first time that there was what looked to be an old ROW going directly through the heart of Northside browsing Zillow the other day. 

^ That's correct.  The self-storage units on Vandalia are on the right-of-way.  There's one or two buildings built over it on Powers and Dreman too, but the Gantry is by far the biggest thing.  It's unfortunate that the underpass at I-74 was completely obliterated and filled with earth.  It almost seems like a deliberate attempt to sever the right-of-way and prevent any reuse. 

 

Here's what Hamilton and Blue Rock looked like in the 1940s when the railroad was still active. 

 

http://www.jjakucyk.com/transit/chd/large-21.html

 

I hate to be the topic police, but I think there's somewhere else for this discussion (which is a good discussion and should continue!)

 

In streetcar news, Deatrick said the goal is to have Walnut repaved by the Allstar game all the way from CP to 3rd (which was previously not the plan, would have been done in the fall) and to have Main Street rail to 6th by the All Star game.  There will be no construction for the entire week of the festivities.  Streetcars will be on the streets being tested by early October. 

Can someone explain how SORTA came up with $650k per year or so on new fare revenue estimates?

 

If 3,000 riders per day, 365 days per year, at $1 fare that is $1,095,000.  So, $650k would assume $1,780.00 in fare revenue, which would be 1,780 riders per day IF 100% capture.  I have a feeling there will be 3,000 riders per day on average over the first year.  We see this already in a nicely built system like that in Tucson where the ridership is exceeding expectations.  Also we already see this in Minneapolis on their light rail system where ridership is close to or almost at 2030 projections.

 

On another note, SORTA may have simply printed as a worst case scenario, Cranley ran to the Enquirer with the information to create hysteria, and it will come back and show, "Oh, this is actually worst case scenario and the range goes up to 4,000 riders per day and $1.3 million revenue on fares per year".  But then the Enquirer won't print that, it will only be the Biz Journal, and all suburbanites will be misinformed for years to come...........

In streetcar news, Deatrick said the goal is to have Walnut repaved by the Allstar game all the way from CP to 3rd (which was previously not the plan, would have been done in the fall) and to have Main Street rail to 6th by the All Star game.  There will be no construction for the entire week of the festivities.  Streetcars will be on the streets being tested by early October. 

 

That's great news. It looks like they will finish repaving Race this week or next.

 

Do you know how extensively Central Parkway will be repaved? Are they only going to repave eastbound Central Parkway between Race and Walnut, and then around the tracks on Main?

 

I was also disappointed that they did not repave the short sections of street between Elm and Race in OTR. I know that cost is a concern, but you'd think it wouldn't be much additional cost since the crews are already there. It's probably more of a concern in the CBD than in OTR.

Can someone explain how SORTA came up with $650k per year or so on new fare revenue estimates?

 

If 3,000 riders per day, 365 days per year, at $1 fare that is $1,095,000.  So, $650k would assume $1,780.00 in fare revenue, which would be 1,780 riders per day IF 100% capture.  I have a feeling there will be 3,000 riders per day on average over the first year.  We see this already in a nicely built system like that in Tucson where the ridership is exceeding expectations.  Also we already see this in Minneapolis on their light rail system where ridership is close to or almost at 2030 projections.

 

On another note, SORTA may have simply printed as a worst case scenario, Cranley ran to the Enquirer with the information to create hysteria, and it will come back and show, "Oh, this is actually worst case scenario and the range goes up to 4,000 riders per day and $1.3 million revenue on fares per year".  But then the Enquirer won't print that, it will only be the Biz Journal, and all suburbanites will be misinformed for years to come...........

 

Proposed fare

 

$1.00 – 2-hour pass

$0.50 – half-fare 2-hour pass (must present valid Fare Deal card to fare inspector upon request)

$2.00 - day pass

 

Existing Metro passes accepted

 

-      All 30-day rolling passes – no additional fare

 

-      Day passes – no additional fare

 

-      Transfers – no additional fare **

 

-      Fare Deal stickers – no additional fare +

 

-      Fare Deal card – $0.50 half-fare pass required*

Can someone explain how SORTA came up with $650k per year or so on new fare revenue estimates?

 

If 3,000 riders per day, 365 days per year, at $1 fare that is $1,095,000.  So, $650k would assume $1,780.00 in fare revenue, which would be 1,780 riders per day IF 100% capture.  I have a feeling there will be 3,000 riders per day on average over the first year.  We see this already in a nicely built system like that in Tucson where the ridership is exceeding expectations.  Also we already see this in Minneapolis on their light rail system where ridership is close to or almost at 2030 projections.

 

On another note, SORTA may have simply printed as a worst case scenario, Cranley ran to the Enquirer with the information to create hysteria, and it will come back and show, "Oh, this is actually worst case scenario and the range goes up to 4,000 riders per day and $1.3 million revenue on fares per year".  But then the Enquirer won't print that, it will only be the Biz Journal, and all suburbanites will be misinformed for years to come...........

 

From my understanding of Paul Grether's presentation to Council yesterday the discrepancy is in thinking about it as 3,000 unique riders per day versus 3,000 rides per day. Since the $1 ticket you purchase is good for two hours on the streetcar, I might ride from the Banks to Findlay, to Findlay to the Square, and to the Square back to the Banks all within my two hours, but I'll still only have paid the initial $1 fare, not $3.

 

I could be mistaken but I think that's the gist of the argument as to why the projections are lower. It has nothing to do with ridership levels and more to do with update fare structure.

^ Correct.

 

1 million rides at $1 per fare does not equal $1,000,000.  Metro assumes to receive around 62 cents per ride when including all the discounts etc.  There are other things like when someone uses their monthly metro card, the streetcar gets a certain amount of money (something like 30 cents), and if a Tank rider uses their pass Tank pays Metro a certain amount of money (again, something much less than $1 per ride). 

 

 

Proposed fare

 

$1.00 – 2-hour pass

$0.50 – half-fare 2-hour pass (must present valid Fare Deal card to fare inspector upon request)

$2.00 - day pass

 

Existing Metro passes accepted

 

-      All 30-day rolling passes – no additional fare

 

-      Day passes – no additional fare

 

-      Transfers – no additional fare **

 

-      Fare Deal stickers – no additional fare +

 

-      Fare Deal card – $0.50 half-fare pass required*

 

Does this mean that some of the revenue from Metro's 30-day and 1-day passes will go towards streetcar operations?

At the City Council meeting today, Charlie Windbag is still proposing crancelling the entire streetcar project at this late stage.  If memory serves me right, when he was running for State Senate, he seemed to change his tune and say it was viable project and if elected he would help find state funding for Phase Ib/II.  Does anyone really take this guy seriously?

^In his defense, once the rails get completed it would be super easy for his rubber tired trolleys to just follow that route, if he trots that tired idea out for a 5th time.  Just think of how much money would be saved now that paint is unnecessary!  :roll:

Some great quotes from David Mann at today's meeting (from  Chris Wetterich @ChrisCinciBiz) :

 

"Sometimes I think some of us will not be happy unless the streetcar fails."

 

"Some capitalize on moments to drive home the idea with the public that the project is failing."

 

"It is incumbent on all of us to find positive ways to engage the [streetcar] process."

Seelbach's motion to study Phase Ib costs passes 5-4.  Winburn lets City Manager know that this is just a motion, not an ordinance, and he is not required to follow it.  City Solicitor agrees with Winburn's assessment.

Seelbach's motion to study Phase Ib costs passes 5-4.  Winburn lets City Manager know that this is just a motion, not an ordinance, and he is not required to follow it.  City Solicitor agrees with Winburn's assessment.

 

He may not be legally obligated to follow the motion, but the City Manager reports to City Council (not to the Mayor) and ought to follow it. Is there any precedent for the City Manager to simply ignore the direction of Council?

It's super super rare and I'm certain they will do a report as described in the motion  Nothing to worry about.

He may not be legally obligated to follow the motion, but the City Manager report to City Council (not to the Mayor) and ought to follow it. Is there any precedent for the City Manager to simply ignore the direction of Council?

 

The City Manager actually reports to the Council and Mayor. Not only that, but the Mayor is the only person who can initiate the firing of the City Manager. So essentially, even if 5 (or 6 or 7 etc) members of Council are upset that the City Manager isn't following their direction via a Motion, they are powerless to do anything but whine in public about it. Granted, it isn't smart to upset half of the folks to which you "report," but in practice the only person the Manager needs to keep happy is the Mayor.

News flash: We’re building a streetcar

David Mann, vice mayor, Cincinnati

 

Supporters and opponents of the streetcar have debated this issue at length across multiple election cycles, in many City Council meetings, and in daily conversation in person and online. In December 2013, City Council finally put that debate to bed. We paused, we reviewed, and we chose to move forward. The consequences, monetary and otherwise, of terminating the project at that point were absolutely unacceptable.

 

By most accounts, preparation for the streetcar opening in September 2016 is going well. Our project leaders are working around the clock to deliver this project on time and under budget. Citizens who spend time in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine have seen the rails put into the ground, new stations erected, and development sprouting up all over the line. Later this year, the city will receive its first streetcar vehicles, and soon after, those vehicles will begin running on our streets.

 

Cont

One thing I hope we can agree on is that the streetcar is being built, and it is in the city’s best interest that it succeeds.

 

Nope.  You won't get agreement on that, Mr. Mann.

Charlie Winburn was just in the studio with Bill Cunningham on a 15-minute anti-streetcar rant.  Called for the project to be shut down immediately.  Said he's afraid of OTR. 

What is he afraid of? Quadrillion dollar condo developments!?

Said he's afraid of OTR. 

 

He's afraid of a shrinking constituency.

Said he's afraid of OTR. 

 

He's afraid of a shrinking constituency.

 

He marched in the Northside 4th of July parade with a entourage of 200+ including not one but two dance troupes, not one but two DJ w/sound systems, and he himself was on horseback along with 3-4 of his enforcers.  You can't make this stuff up. 

David Mann is bizarre.  It's almost like he didn't pay any attention to the streetcar when he was campaigning, and now he seems to be totally on board.  And it only cost us a million dollars.

If the police has to show cause to a judge before receiving search warrants, so should the media when making FOIA requests. Wishful thinking. So is my hoping that the Enquirer won't blast SORTA for paying a premium cost demanded by bidders once they see what the other bidders have offered.

 

Jason Williams ‏@jwilliamscincy  1m1 minute ago Cincinnati, OH

.@Enquirer to SORTA: Release streetcar bid docs or we'll sue you http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/04/16/enquirer-streetcar-sorta-legal/25876255/ … Public has a right to know