Here is the collective response from everyone on Cincinnati.com that read the drama article from Jason Williams, but only with people other than Joe Biden and Barack Obama, but you get the point:

It's unclear how much the city's "pause" impacted CAF's delay. CAF was convinced that the project was finished and stopped working on all the components.  That alone added two months to the timeline which is where we got the September arrival date. But shutdown/startup could have caused some of the quality issues that are now causing CAF to add an additional delay.

 

It will be too bad if we end the project with $0 in the contingency fund, since the "pause" added $2 million to the project's cost and this CAF delay could potentially drain the last remaining $1 million.

^ I'm guessing that a lot of this has to do with the fact that Cincinnati is the North American launch customer for these vehicles and that the FTA's certification of their safety is what's delaying things. Had we bought a vehicle from one of the other vendors that has already introduced its product and got its certified, this probably wouldn't be happening. I guess it's the price you pay for being an innovator.

However.... CAF seems to be having some problems. CAF is very late in delivering new Viewliner II cars to Amtrak. I think they're about a year late. The reasons have been kept quiet, but there have been some rumblings that Amtrak was angry enough to threaten canceling the rest of the order and give the work to someone else. Problem is, the set up time for someone else might further the delay the order and increase costs.

I know it maybe cheaper to go foreign but it's one reason to stay american to get things built on-time. GE aircraft engines don't seem to have these kind of delays with their orders.

I know it maybe cheaper to go foreign but it's one reason to stay american to get things built on-time. GE aircraft engines don't seem to have these kind of delays with their orders.

 

General Electric doesn't manufacture airplanes (or streetcars).  Was CAF's delay due to suppliers or their own assembly issues?

Bombardier is years late on the Toronto streetcar order. And both Atlanta and Tucson were delayed months by vehicle delays. These things are super complicated 80,000 pound machines.

 

The F-35 is 15 years late and still doesn't work. A 2-3 month delay isn't that uncommon

The reason for the year-long "testing and implementation period" is now starting to become clear lol.

I know it maybe cheaper to go foreign but it's one reason to stay american to get things built on-time. GE aircraft engines don't seem to have these kind of delays with their orders.

 

There are no domestic passenger rail car manufacturers. There are domestic suppliers of materials and components, and US Railcar is here in Ohio but has no assembly plant.

I know it maybe cheaper to go foreign but it's one reason to stay american to get things built on-time. GE aircraft engines don't seem to have these kind of delays with their orders.

 

There are no domestic passenger rail car manufacturers. There are domestic suppliers of materials and components, and US Railcar is here in Ohio but has no assembly plant.

 

http://us.bombardier.com/us/bt_manufacturing.htm

 

http://www.oregoniron.com/industry-divisions/transportation-industry/

 

?

Pretty sure United Streetcar (Oregon Iron Works) is effectively out of the streetcar business. They were most of a year late delivering Tucson's streetcars and also late delivering some of DC's streetcars. I don't think Bombardier has ever sold a modern streetcar in the United States. Siemens assembles streetcars in Sacramento.

Pretty sure United Streetcar (Oregon Iron Works) is effectively out of the streetcar business. They were most of a year late delivering Tucson's streetcars and also late delivering some of DC's streetcars. I don't think Bombardier has ever sold a modern streetcar in the United States. Siemens assembles streetcars in Sacramento.

fg

 

That is too bad oh well. What about passenger rail car mfg., not light rail car mfg. So Siemen's in the only streetcar light rail mfg assembler in usa?

Pretty sure United Streetcar (Oregon Iron Works) is effectively out of the streetcar business. They were most of a year late delivering Tucson's streetcars and also late delivering some of DC's streetcars. I don't think Bombardier has ever sold a modern streetcar in the United States. Siemens assembles streetcars in Sacramento.

fg

 

That is too bad oh well. What about passenger rail car mfg., not light rail car mfg. So Siemen's in the only streetcar light rail mfg assembler in usa?

 

Brookville

Skoda is assembling streetcars for Seattle -- only for Seattle, I think -- in Seattle, forgot about that. Brookville made Dallas' new streetcars in PA. somewhere. Brookville may also be making the vintage trolleys for the St. Louis line under construction now. But these are really small-scale operations. Dunno who makes New Orleans vintage trolleys.

 

Siemens in Norwood, OH makes motors for electric rail, and Ohio in general is a fairly important manufacturer of components for all kinds of rail equipment.

Skoda is assembling streetcars for Seattle -- only for Seattle, I think -- in Seattle, forgot about that. Brookville made Dallas' new streetcars in PA. somewhere. Brookville may also be making the vintage trolleys for the St. Louis line under construction now. But these are really small-scale operations. Dunno who makes New Orleans vintage trolleys.

 

Siemens in Norwood, OH makes motors for electric rail, and Ohio in general is a fairly important manufacturer of components for all kinds of rail equipment.

 

Thanks

Streetcar made a couple cameos in Lumenocity tonight. The older guy sitting next to me had been pointing out the videos references: fountain square, big O, Ezzard Charles, union terminal, etc to his son. When the streetcar rolled by (right after some Redbikes), the dad said, "I think that's the monorail from kings island that's at jungle Jim's now". As said before, people are going to be very surprised when they first see these on our streets.

Please come if you can: http://www.cincinnatimasoniccenter.com/bls/

Streetcar made a couple cameos in Lumenocity tonight. The older guy sitting next to me had been pointing out the videos references: fountain square, big O, Ezzard Charles, union terminal, etc to his son. When the streetcar rolled by (right after some Redbikes), the dad said, "I think that's the monorail from kings island that's at jungle Jim's now". As said before, people are going to be very surprised when they first see these on our streets.

 

It's just shocking to me that the renderings of the finished streetcars are included in nearly every article published about the streetcar in the past few years, and yet 95% of the streetcar opponents have never seen them. And then they when they finally do see it, they make comments about, "I thought we were getting a trolley? What's this thing?" How is it possible that 95% of the streetcar opponents have never done a simple Google search to learn about the project?

 

It is just totally incompatible with the way that I (and most people my age, I think) consume news. If you get most of your information from talk radio, occasionally supplemented by TV news soundbites, Enquirer headlines, and COAST tweets, I guess that explains why you don't know what it looks like.

 

The other thing that's a little shocking to me is that visitors of Luminocity aren't better informed about what's happening in the city. I guess the event has been growing in popularity each year and is no longer primarily attended by urbanites. I would be curious to know the demographics of who bought tickets.

Streetcar made a couple cameos in Lumenocity tonight. The older guy sitting next to me had been pointing out the videos references: fountain square, big O, Ezzard Charles, union terminal, etc to his son. When the streetcar rolled by (right after some Redbikes), the dad said, "I think that's the monorail from kings island that's at jungle Jim's now". As said before, people are going to be very surprised when they first see these on our streets.

 

It's just shocking to me that the renderings of the finished streetcars are included in nearly every article published about the streetcar in the past few years, and yet 95% of the streetcar opponents have never seen them. And then they when they finally do see it, they make comments about, "I thought we were getting a trolley? What's this thing?" How is it possible that 95% of the streetcar opponents have never done a simple Google search to learn about the project?

 

It is just totally incompatible with the way that I (and most people my age, I think) consume news. If you get most of your information from talk radio, occasionally supplemented by TV news soundbites, Enquirer headlines, and COAST tweets, I guess that explains why you don't know what it looks like.

 

The other thing that's a little shocking to me is that visitors of Luminocity aren't better informed about what's happening in the city. I guess the event has been growing in popularity each year and is no longer primarily attended by urbanites. I would be curious to know the demographics of who bought tickets.

 

This is all good for us. It's like the stock market. Surprises on the upside often lead to big gains. The opponents have put out a false narrative for years. They will have no credibility once these babies start running.

Well based on what was going on around my place last night it's apparently all old white people. "That was a church, that seems odd" (about Taft's), "do people live in there?" (pointing up towards various apartment and condos), "are these new rails?" (in reference to streetcar tracks on Race), "I love stuff like that! I wish we had that" (pointing at the ultra cool wall inside the entry to my building where they just sealed all the old crumbling layers of plaster), etc. were all heard in my three trips outside the house last night between coats of paint in my bathroom. Basically zero clue about their surroundings. Which is fine, at least they were there giving it a try. Which is what's important.

 

 

It's just shocking to me that the renderings of the finished streetcars are included in nearly every article published about the streetcar in the past few years, and yet 95% of the streetcar opponents have never seen them. And then they when they finally do see it, they make comments about, "I thought we were getting a trolley? What's this thing?" How is it possible that 95% of the streetcar opponents have never done a simple Google search to learn about the project?

 

It is just totally incompatible with the way that I (and most people my age, I think) consume news. If you get most of your information from talk radio, occasionally supplemented by TV news soundbites, Enquirer headlines, and COAST tweets, I guess that explains why you don't know what it looks like.

 

 

They don't need to see it to know that they hate it! For the hardcore haters it won't matter how nice the streetcars look or how well the system works. Some people will always be against it. Also, I'm sure even after the streetcar has been in operation for years there will still be city residents who don't know about it because they never pay attention.

 

 

It's just shocking to me that the renderings of the finished streetcars are included in nearly every article published about the streetcar in the past few years, and yet 95% of the streetcar opponents have never seen them. And then they when they finally do see it, they make comments about, "I thought we were getting a trolley? What's this thing?" How is it possible that 95% of the streetcar opponents have never done a simple Google search to learn about the project?

 

It is just totally incompatible with the way that I (and most people my age, I think) consume news. If you get most of your information from talk radio, occasionally supplemented by TV news soundbites, Enquirer headlines, and COAST tweets, I guess that explains why you don't know what it looks like.

 

 

They don't need to see it to know that they hate it! For the hardcore haters it won't matter how nice the streetcars look or how well the system works. Some people will always be against it. Also, I'm sure even after the streetcar has been in operation for years there will still be city residents who don't know about it because they never pay attention.

 

Nobody hates the streetcars in cities where they were kept.  Instead people direct their anger toward excuses as to why the lines aren't extended or why specific branches that were removed 50 years ago can't be restored. 

 

City 'deeply frustrated' with streetcar builder

 

The company building Cincinnati's streetcar vehicles is not providing answers for its expected delay – and the city is threatening legal action if the manufacturer doesn't live up to its contract.

 

CAF USA Vice President Virginia Verdeja has not yet responded to a sternly worded letter from the city last Thursday. She also has not returned multiple messages from The Enquirer seeking comment about a production delay that could end up pushing back the service start date of the streetcar.

 

"The city is extremely concerned about the projected delay," according to the letter obtained by The Enquirer.

 

Cont

I know John Schneider prefers going up Gilbert to going up Vine, but what about going up Clifton?  Are there the same issues as with going up Vine?

Didn't they select Vine because Clifton had a handful of spots that were too steep? Or something along those lines?

I know John Schneider prefers going up Gilbert to going up Vine, but what about going up Clifton?  Are there the same issues as with going up Vine?

 

Clifton is steeper than Vine. You would reach more residents in the CUF area but there is no clear direction for the streetcar to go at the top of the hill.

 

I am increasingly thinking that the best streetcar route would be to head up Vine and then turn right on McMillan to go to Walnut Hills. Assuming we could make Taft and McMillan two-way for their entire lengths after the new MLK interchange opens, McMillan could handle both directions of travel between Walnut Hills and CUF.

^That also introduces a gateway to various other working-class east side neighborhoods like the Madison Road cooridor through O'bryonville, Norwood, Oakley, etc. Getting the streetcar up the hill opens up so many east-west routes that the basin just doesn't really facilitate as easily.

The Clifton Ave. hill gets slightly steeper at the curve at Zier/Hastings.  You can feel it when you bike up the hill.  The Vine St. hill is steepest right by Mulberry St.  Again, you can sense it while biking but not when driving.  Gilbert is a steady grade. 

Take it up Highland and then have it go east & west off McMillan.

Vine is the only surface option available because it's the shallowest and most direct.  It has a "ruling grade" of 7% which an average closer to 6.5%.  Clifton goes over 8% for much of its bottom third or quarter, which is already at or over the limit for our cars.  Liberty Hill is 9%, and Sycamore is greater than 12% for most of its length so only cable cars ever operated on it.  Even McMillan pushes over 8% near the top of the hill.  The steepest Gilbert gets is 5.5%, but that's getting pretty far out of the way.  Reading seems to stay under 5% as far as I can tell, but eew. 

Even though a line up Gilbert would come the closest to serving my neighborhood, I think it would be a bad idea from a ROI and ridership perspective.  Gilbert is a real dead zone essentially from Broadway St. til about halfway up the hill to McMillan.  There is a node of activity where Humana, the Baldwin complex, hotel, Laser Spine Institute, and Association for the Blind are located, but between that and downtown, there is almost nothing, and no space to build on because of 71 and Eden Park.  Even as you get further up the hill, there isn't a ton of development potential.  There are some town homes and small office buildings, but nothing really significant until you get close to McMillan.  The neighborhoods east of Gilbert (near Andy's) would receive a shot in the arm from the streetcar, but I only see it having a marginal effect, as that area is already fairly built out and stable. 

 

For Walnut Hills, I think a much better transit solution is to have the neighborhood served by an E-W streetcar that goes from either Vine or Clifton Ave on the West to Victory Parkway or Woodburn on the East.  I think the connection to UC and the job and amenity cluster of Uptown would be more valuable for Walnut Hills than a rail connection to downtown via Gilbert.  If we are serious about resurrecting the tunnel idea, it makes sense to funnel people from East Side neighborhoods to Clifton to get downtown, rather than have multiple surface routes negotiating the hillsides into and out of the basin.  The way the bus system is currently set up, access to Downtown is the one area that is reliably available, so I think crosstown connections would help to augment the bus network to create more of a comprehensive transit system for the inner city (basin + periphery neighborhoods).

Main st tunnel to Jefferson is probably the best way to get uptown. I did not say cheapest but probably the best route.

Thew magic of the tunnel is that you combine three alignments between 2nd Street and Xavier, so the cost is effectively one-third of what it would otherwise be. And you'd have less track and structures, structures and stations to maintain. By combining the routes into a single spine through the most dense part of Cincinnati, you probably have a train every five minutes, maybe less, at peak. Living along this spine without a car would be extremely convenient. The grade from Clifton and Main to a surface station behind Christ would be 6.3% -- a little steep for LRT but easy for a streetcar.

I was trying to find the opening date for Seattle's First Hill Streetcar. Many of the official websites still say "coming in 2014". I found their Twitter account and they replied to someone's inquiry with, "Testing is an iterative process so we cannot set start date until key tests are passed."

 

So we appear to be in a pretty good position right now. Hopefully the delay isn't any more than what CAF is saying, and we can meet our original opening date.

I hope someone on our project is looking at the start up problems in Seattle and DC and looking at lessons learned.  I think the DC streetcar has a 20-something point list of issues they need to address before they can open. 

^ Such as?

^ http://m.wamu.org/#/news/15/07/09/long_delayed_dc_streetcar_months_from_opening_says_ddot_chief

DC Streetcar is a complete disaster. The good news they're still moving forward and will eventually open. Who knows when though. APTA went in and made a list of flaws in the system that need to be fixed before they can open. DC considered scrapping the project but has decided to move forward. Every other streetcar project has been handled MUCH better than DC.

 

Cincinnati Streetcar has been getting nothing but gold stars on APTA and FTA checks. It is going to be the best streetcar in the country. No question. Streetcar leaders are in constant contact with other systems and are always learning from problems they've experienced.

Thanks for that link.

 

That project sounds like a mess. Example: “The general organization of the project and the support to DDOT from the contractors appears to be uneven. Many areas of support may be buried deeper in the organization than need be. As stated previously, there needs to be one person in charge who takes responsibility for the project,” according to one of the report’s new observations."

 

This sort of fundamental organizational disarray has never plagued our project, no matter what the skeptics try to say. That it would lead to a host of other problems in D.C. seems pretty easy to understand. I say TGFJD (Thank God For John Deatrick).

Bet the problem in Seattle is the wireless technology they'really using on part of the First Hill line.

Enquirer Editorial: What’s going right on streetcar

 

The Enquirer will continue to watchdog the project every step of the way as it moves out of Deatrick’s realm and into SORTA’s. But first we pause for a moment to appreciate what a steady hand it takes to hold and keep such a big project on track. Deatrick did so, and he has earned our thanks.

 

Front page Enquirer story on streetcar overhead wires.

700 WLW raising the alarm at every news break.

Firefighter union president on for 30 minutes complaining about overhead wires -- contends that trucks might need new ladders.

 

We're in year 8 of this crap. 

Front page Enquirer story on streetcar overhead wires.

700 WLW raising the alarm at every news break.

Firefighter union president on for 30 minutes complaining about overhead wires -- contends that trucks might need new ladders.

 

We're in year 8 of this crap. 

 

The headlines and WLW promos makes issues like this one seem like complete surprises and insurmountable problems. While they may be surprises to the Enquirer’s writers, who seem to always be completely out of the loop, they are not new, and they have been taken into account – per their article two fire department representatives have been involved with the project for months.

 

There’s also the simple fact that streetcar wires are all over many cities throughout the world and haven’t caused problems. I was in Toronto a few weeks ago and the wires there basically form spider webs over many intersections. If you’ve seen the movie “Enemy” (you should if you haven’t) it even makes that into a theme. However, fires still seem to get put out in Toronto, and they have many more tall buildings and streetcar wires.

 

^ And there are never, ever fires in European cities.

Good to know that streetcar wires are the only ones firefighters have to worry about.

 

Good to know that streetcar wires are the only ones firefighters have to worry about.

 

To be fair the streetcar wire is quite a bit more dangerous than those other wires.

Front page Enquirer story on streetcar overhead wires.

700 WLW raising the alarm at every news break.

Firefighter union president on for 30 minutes complaining about overhead wires -- contends that trucks might need new ladders.

 

We're in year 8 of this crap. 

 

The headlines and WLW promos makes issues like this one seem like complete surprises and insurmountable problems. While they may be surprises to the Enquirers writers, who seem to always be completely out of the loop, they are not new, and they have been taken into account per their article two fire department representatives have been involved with the project for months.

 

Theres also the simple fact that streetcar wires are all over many cities throughout the world and havent caused problems. I was in Toronto a few weeks ago and the wires there basically form spider webs over many intersections. If youve seen the movie Enemy (you should if you havent) it even makes that into a theme. However, fires still seem to get put out in Toronto, and they have many more tall buildings and streetcar wires.

 

 

Dayton has had 10+ miles of the overhead trolleybus wires in operation continuously for over 50 years.  Has anyone heard of a problem there?

 

 

Somebody get the Dayton Daily News on the phone pronto!

I seem to remember seeing an emergency shut-off switch on a streetcar pole in Portland.

 

But there is no similar switch for Duke power lines

Great point about Dayton. It's very telling that a city one hour away from Cincinnati has exposed overhead transit power lines and has no issues with it. But Cincinnati media acts like the sky is falling because Cincinnati is a totally unique place and what works in other cities will never work here.