^ Needs a tunnel

If the line was ever extended to uptown and be accessible to the major hospitals/UC, i would not expect those institutions to contribute capital for the actual construction. But if they committed to contribute the same amount  of dollars they already spend on the various shuttles that UC and the Hospitals already run to downtown and back that would help tremendously with operating expenses.

 

I would have to think several buses + drivers + gas and maintenance is a fairly significant number. Especially when the same service is duplicated by each institution. 

^ I'd also look at the avoided costs of buying land and building on-campus parking.

^ Yes I'd agree. I also wouldn't expect them to fund construction. But if you are the chairman of the Board, you choose public words carefully, I think. I'd have hoped for a more progressive, move-the-needle stance from him, something more like "A strong transportation link between the Banks and Clifton will be needed in order to make this work, and UC is dedicated to working with community leaders to craft and promote the right vision." Or whatever. Something like that would be much more progressive than what was said.

Cincinnati's streetcar has so much going for it.  It goes through so many areas; Findlay Market, Music Hall, Washington Park, Fountain Square, etc..., and it also has the ability to add so much more along the route; more population, businesses, office, etc... The same goes if it is extended Uptown.  There is so much good that is going to come out of it. 

 

Having said that, I hope it works for Kentucky too and I like that they want to connect it all together.  I like the idea that they want to connect Newport and Covington, they are the huge centers and should be connected.  I thought not connecting them would miss the boat, so to speak.  For Newport there is the Aquarium, NOTL, the new residential going up and the bell.  Covington has MainStrasse, the Convention center, hotels, offices and other potential around RiverCenter.  There is also other future potential for Newport and Covington; Ovation in Newport and the area around the IRS in Covington.  Then there is the potential for much more residential being built along the line and eventually trying to connect the other areas a little farther south so bring life to what is there and bring in new development.

 

Just by hitting these areas in the beginning still allows for a lot of growth by building new residential and business in NKY.  It could have a huge effect.  Then after they get the first phase in, they can venture farther south to help bring up the neighborhoods, but the major areas need to be connected first.

 

I also have a question regarding the connection point in Cincinnati.  I noticed it connects only in one direction at the Riverfront Transit Center.  Why wouldn't both incoming and outgoing connect into the Transit Center?  If other rail transit is setup at a later date (let's hope not too much later), I would think that people would want an access point.  instead of coming across the bridge and then having to get off at the street stop and then having to walk over to the transit center.  If the entire Cincinnati and NKY system is connected that would be great, but I think the stops should be in the transit center or at least directly next to steps going into the transit center.         

 

If the line was ever extended to uptown and be accessible to the major hospitals/UC, i would not expect those institutions to contribute capital for the actual construction. But if they committed to contribute the same amount  of dollars they already spend on the various shuttles that UC and the Hospitals already run to downtown and back that would help tremendously with operating expenses.

 

I would have to think several buses + drivers + gas and maintenance is a fairly significant number. Especially when the same service is duplicated by each institution.

 

UC and the hospitals would both benefit from a streetcar line.  So many people don't want to take the bus, even when it's just between Uptown to/from Downtown.  I'm one of those people.  Students at UC I'm sure would love to know they had a rail transportation option.  Not having to try to figure out what bus is running at what time, etc...  When I think of taking a bus anywhere in Cincinnati, I think of those old math questions you used to get in grade school.  If a train/bus left Chattanooga at 8:48 AM going 50 MPH, and another train/bus left..........blah, blah, blah.  That is what comes to mind when thinking about riding a bus.  Rail is not that way, especially a streetcar coming through going the same route continually.

 

It could an added selling point for UC and Xavier (if it reached both), with students knowing just by getting on the streetcar that they could get to so many places of interest in the city.     

I'm sure the State of Ohio would love to see rail in the Riverfront Transit Center. Because the vehicles would be electric, you'd avoid the expense of running the exhaust fans which were sized to evacuate the exhaust of diesel trains. Very few utilities to move. With no destinations between NOL and the RTC, it would be very fast -- pure transportation. Not much enhanced development potential on the Cincinnati side unless you could get your hands on the U.S. Bank Center, which could be huge. The vertical transfer from the RTC to the Cincinnati Streetcar on Second Street is well-designed, giving Cincinnati the feel of a much larger city. One problem: because this alignment would not connect to the tracks of the Cincinnati Streetcar, NKY would have to build its own maintenance facility. Which they'll need to do in order to expand anyway.

 

One problem: because this alignment would not connect to the tracks of the Cincinnati Streetcar, NKY would have to build its own maintenance facility. Which they'll need to do in order to expand anyway.

 

John what if there was a section of "service track" not part of the regular route to connect the two? That would be used once going to the NKY route in the morning and once coming home to the MOF at night?

 

If you could run through the Riverfront Transit Center you could do it in both directions and really cut down on the total track you are using. I like the idea.

 

A big problem I have with the route shown on the nkystreetcar.com website is that it is shown as a just an extension of the Cincinnati route. The NKY system should be designed so that it can operate on its own. If the NKY system grows into something substantial it should require a transfer instead of being a one seat ride. This can protect against problems in one part of the system expanding to affect the whole system and would allow for more straightforward and logical route planning. (If frequencies are high enough transfers are not a big negative.) At the very least to accomplish this for the routing they have shown they need to add track between Walnut and Main on 3rd street. This would require the existing track to be cut into and an "X" piece of track at Main and Third to be installed.

Mr. Humes term as UC board chair is up this year. He's never been a big streetcar guy and would have benefited from going on one of John's Portland trips. The next likely board chair would surely have phrased that differently.

I think connecting to Newport and Covington would be a really smart move for Cincinnati. Not only does it serve additional urban nodes, but it would be attractive to any tourists who make their way to Cincinnati.

I think connecting to Newport and Covington would be a really smart move for Cincinnati. Not only does it serve additional urban nodes, but it would be attractive to any tourists who make their way to Cincinnati.

 

Exactly!  The distance from the edge of the Ohio River going across from the Cincinnati side to the edge of Covington or Newport is about the same distance from the edge of the river in Cincinnati to 5th Street in Cincinnati.  Newport and Covington are very much a part of downtown Cincinnati, it's just that the river is such a large psychological barrier, but the actual distance is so small.  That's why when people talk about the downtown population, the downtowns of Newport and Covington should also be part of those figures.  Look at a part of downtown Newport or downtown Covington on a map and look at the distance to the edge of the river in Cincinnati and then go the same distance up through Cincinnati from Cincinnati's river edge and you will see what I mean.

 

It would be much easier for a tourist in Cincinnati to jump on a streetcar to visit the Newport Aquarium or somebody in town in Covington for a Convention staying at a RiverCenter hotel to come to Cincinnati and enjoy everything along the streetcar line through Cincinnati.  The areas can feed off of each other in a more tourist friendly manner.  A tourist could easily double their spending if the connection was there.  I'm sure the entire area is currently losing out on money because the downtowns aren't more connected.               

I've said this before on this thread, but I'm always amazed at how few people we've seen after 11:00p on the Portland Streetcar during our 35 trips there, and Portland has a 17 miles of streetcar and a much more developed food and bar scene. I just read somewhere that the bar scene in Portland was rated by someone to be the best in the nation.

 

I would strongly disagree Portland is a good city for nightlife (unless you're a hipster stuck in the 2009 scene right after the crash 8-)). It's decent on weekends and can go to last call, but the city is really lacking in the club culture you find in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and even Seattle. There is nothing like Ruby Skye, Vessel, Temple, Harlot, 1015 Folsom, or any of the SF type of nightclubs there. I think Portland has too many starving hipsters for that kind of club culture to be viable. On a weeknight, Portland is pretty dead, and the hipster scene gets depressed by all the rain in the winter. Weather does negatively affect winters up there. Real nightclubs only do well in cities with disposable income and a culture that promotes dressing up. Portland is neither of those things.

 

*People that like Portland nightlife love beer. Portland is really strong in beer, hence why almost every damn bar is a beer bar. Portland, like most cities, screwed up by not running trains later.

 

**Cities would be smart to run some transit until past last call to promote more nightlife. Many (most) major American cities have weak nightlife these days, and they're missing out on business. I think early closure of mass transit is a big contributing factor in this. New York City's 24-hour trains promote nightlife. Part of the reason Hollywood has revived is due to the Red Line running past 2am on weekends (last call in California is 1:30am). If cities can run trains until bar close, it will lead to increased business. Not to mention bar and nightclub workers need a cheap way to get home too.

 

***And completely insane party towns like Athens, Ohio wipe the floor clean of most major cities. There are only a handful of towns like Athens, Ohio left in the United States. They're stuck in a time warp bucking the trends of most college towns. Santa Barbara, California is like this too (just with more money). It's like the 80's, 90's, 2000's, and 2010's never happened. These schools like Ohio, UC Santa Barbara, UW Madison, West Virginia, etc. just don't change. Most other universities have really cracked down. What's interesting is no first tier cities today have major party schools. My guess is big cities at some point decided to crack down on university nightlife. For a school of its size and age, Cincinnati has never lived up to its potential. :| Hopefully the streetcar will help with nightlife for 20-somethings.

 

Mass transit can be a tool to promote nightlife if it runs until after last call. It would be really interesting to compare the number of liquor permits in Hollywood before the construction of the Red Line to what it's like today. We can't really do this in New York City or Chicago since they've had late night transit for so long.

In Boston they use a jet engine to clear snow off the tracks on the T's lone service that still uses vintage PCC streetcars:

 

Obviously this thing is pretty loud and obnoxious, but it's only necessary on the one line where they still use the old lightweight streetcars in order to avoid having to rebuild all of the line's bridges to support modern cars. 

 

Found another example of what Cincinnati needs to do at 12th & Main: https://goo.gl/maps/Q2TJxFP7th62

In Boston they use a jet engine to clear snow off the tracks on the T's lone service that still uses vintage PCC streetcars:

 

Obviously this thing is pretty loud and obnoxious, but it's only necessary on the one line where they still use the old lightweight streetcars in order to avoid having to rebuild all of the line's bridges to support modern cars. 

 

 

PCC streetcars are awesome! SF and Boston get a lot of credit for keeping them around. Hilariously, the PCC line on Market Street SF is more reliable than the modern light rail.

Those Boeing trains on MUNI are such a joke. I've only been to SF once and spent 9 days there. In that time I had to change trains after the one I was on broke down on 3 separate occasions. One of which was actually a series of three trains in a row on the N-Judah breaking down one after the other at rush hour when I was trying to get back to my friend's place to let her in since I had her keys. That was a fun process.

 

The doors seem to be such a huge problem. They'd pop out but not slide open. Or they'd slide open and slide closed but not pop in. Then throw on top of that the steps that have to raise and lower which also seemed to never work right and you have a hot mess on your hands.

^Yeah, us SFer's all know to avoid Muni light rail. It's crush load crowded and extremely unreliable. You take BART, PCC streetcar, walk, bike, or Uber. Hell, even the cable cars are more reliable than the modern light rail! Some of the tourist stuff is better than the city's actual commuting backbone. Muni is the only transit agency I know of where the busses are more reliable than the light rail.

 

*Muni's busses and light rail are barely functional, and you have to leave a lot of extra time during morning commutes. The ridership is way too high for any of it to work how it should, but there are also serious electrical issues with the modern light rail cars. The break down constantly. The trolleybusses lose their electrical connections all the time, but it's an easy fix. It takes about 2 minutes to reattach the lines. If a Muni light rail car breaks down, you can be stranded. Then you might have to wait 20 minutes for the rescue train...if it ever comes and there is room on it.

 

**I don't buy the argument that modern light rail is better than these old PCC streetcars. San Francisco and Boston held on to these PCC streetcars on busy routes because they're cute, but also more reliable. After the Central Subway Muni Light Rail is complete, San Francisco has no plans to invest in modern light rail again.

 

The one city that really stands out for high-functioning light rail/streetcars is Toronto. They have a massive network of streetcars from different eras (blows every light rail system in America out of the water), and it's all extremely reliable. Technically, a lot of the Toronto light rail is "modern," but it's really based on the old PCC streetcar style. Toronto's streetcars also feed into the heavy rail subway system very well. Toronto's network of PCC streetcars was the largest in North America. Most of them have been replaced over time, but a few still remain in operation. The crossover CLRV stuff from the 70's is also similar to the old PCC streetcars.

 

How can Toronto have higher ridership than any light rail system in the states while also being more reliable? Something doesn't add up in America...

Walked much of one of Bill's suggested Newport streetcar alignments today: Taylor-Southgate to Broadway to Fourth to Main to Fifth to Broadway. I could see this happening if Cincinnati came up with some of the money,

I absolutely loved San Francisco but was sort of surprised, and not in a good way, how inconvenient it was to move about such a physically small, dense city that has so many transit options. My friend lived in the Outer Sunset and on more than one occasion I'd open the app and check out where the next N-Judah train was only to see they were all backed up in a line under Market...exceptionally useless.

^I'd actually like Cincinnati to get back some of its PCC streetcars. I've ridden the old Cincinnati ones in San Francisco, and they're excellent!

 

*What the Muni F-Market Line in San Francisco and the TTC 509 Harbourfront Line in Toronto teach us is that the old PCC-style stuff is loved by tourists. That gets people excited for transit again! It's a political "easing in" so to speak that can later lead to beefier investments...

I still think a touristy heritage line along the riverfront would be a nice thing to have. It could go from Paul Brown to Montgomery Inn. Two trains, one traveling each direction and syncing so they always pass one another at the halfway point.

^Actually, now that I think about it, the Newport-Covington line should be a PCC streetcar!

San Francisco's car 1057 was actually from Philadelphia.  It was just painted in honor of Cincinnati's PCC-specific color scheme (the older Cincinnati Car Company curve-siders stayed traction orange and cream, as did the trolleybuses and early diesel buses that replaced them). 

 

Cincinnati initially purchased one PCC car each from the St. Louis Car Company, Pullman, and Brilliner in 1939 to test them out.  The St. Louis cars were chosen and 51 more were purchased (26 in 1940 and 25 in 1947).  All 52 of the St. Louis cars were sold to Toronto in 1950.  It's this very quick shift from buying new rail equipment in the late 40s, along with many significant track reconstructions, and very few line abandonments until the latter half of 1947, to complete abandonment of the system just four years later that makes me wonder what sort of political machinations were going on behind the scenes.  Anyway, the Pullman and Brilliner cars were kept until the end of streetcar service in 1951, but they were sold to Armco (now AK Steel) for scrap along with 99 of the curve-siders from the 1920s. 

 

The pre-war cars operated in Toronto until 1975 and the post-war cars until 1982.  16 of the pre-war cars were then sold to Alexandria, Egypt in 1968 and all were retired by 1984.  Six more were sold to Tampico, Mexico in 1971-1972, and their system was abandoned in 1974.  It seems that the newer post-war cars were simply scrapped.  They were all-electric while the pre-war cars were air-electric with air brakes and air-operated doors and windshield wipers.  I'm not sure why the newer all-electric cars were scrapped and the older air-electric cars were resold, because generally the all-electrics were more reliable and less complicated, and Toronto even changed out many of the air components like the wipers for electric ones anyway.  Maybe it was just too late and there were no buyers for that type of equipment anymore.

^Great history on Cincy's PCC cars. Thanks for sharing!

Walked much of one of Bill's suggested Newport streetcar alignments today: Taylor-Southgate to Broadway to Fourth to Main to Fifth to Broadway. I could see this happening if Cincinnati came up with some of the money,

 

On one hand, the NKY streetcar project taking on a 4th/5th street Cincinnati alignment would present an opportunity to have an east-west line running through the heart of downtown Cincinnati. That particular portion would provide a sharp looking streetcar going through what's becoming known as the "financial district." It would also be a good connection to Metro buses on Government Square.

 

On the other hand, if there were ever light rail lines (destination TBD, CVG possibly?) on 2nd/3rd streets in Cincinnati, then the 4th/5th alignment wouldn't provide as good of a connection to those.

Walked much of one of Bill's suggested Newport streetcar alignments today: Taylor-Southgate to Broadway to Fourth to Main to Fifth to Broadway. I could see this happening if Cincinnati came up with some of the money,

 

Great point.  I think it makes good sense for Cincinnati to help out with the cost of taking it over the river, so long as we get some input on the alignment through Newport to Covington (which seems to have to go on 4th & 5th in both cities).  After that, everyone can add to the service on their own.

Walked much of one of Bill's suggested Newport streetcar alignments today: Taylor-Southgate to Broadway to Fourth to Main to Fifth to Broadway. I could see this happening if Cincinnati came up with some of the money,

 

On one hand, the NKY streetcar project taking on a 4th/5th street Cincinnati alignment would present an opportunity to have an east-west line running through the heart of downtown Cincinnati. That particular portion would provide a sharp looking streetcar going through what's becoming known as the "financial district." It would also be a good connection to Metro buses on Government Square.

 

On the other hand, if there were ever light rail lines (destination TBD, CVG possibly?) on 2nd/3rd streets in Cincinnati, then the 4th/5th alignment wouldn't provide as good of a connection to those.

 

If light rail to CVG is routes through the RTC and then follows the I-71/75 ROW, the you could just extend the Covington streetcar alignment to a connecting station in Lewisburg. Cincinnatians would just ride the streetcar to the riverfront and hop on light rail, and people in Newport and Covington would just ride over to Lewisburg to hop on. It could actually be a surprisingly convenient system.

Where and what is Lewisburg? I've never heard of it.

The most notable landmark is probably St. John's church.  It covers basically everything west of I-75 and east of the hill.  Most of Covington's neighborhoods have Germanic-sounding names like Lewisburg, Peasleburg, Mutter Gottes, etc.

That neighborhood is beautiful. I think the isolation from the main street grid of Covington has kept the buildings safe from demolition over the years.

I just streetviewed the area, its pretty intact though there are abandoned buildings and gaps where demos took place here and there.

 

Covington in general is way more intact than Cincinnati neighborhoods of the same vintage.  Its shocking that the area hasn't turned around anymore than it has...

That wiggly stretch of Pike Street is one of my favorite stretches of street in the metro area. I loved taking Dixie down the hill on the days when I-75 was backed up in the afternoon (which was most days). Covington is so full of cool stuff - sometimes I wish everything within the 275 loop could just become its own city-state.

I just streetviewed the area, its pretty intact though there are abandoned buildings and gaps where demos took place here and there.

 

Covington in general is way more intact than Cincinnati neighborhoods of the same vintage.  Its shocking that the area hasn't turned around anymore than it has...

 

Kentuckians in general are way behind their Cincinnati counterparts with regard to their opinion of the urban core, and are continuing to push outward into the Boone County suburbs.  Meanwhile, Cincinnatians have a mental block about moving across that river.  So you end up with a lot of great intact walkable neighborhood, with gorgeous affordable housing, right on downtown's doorstep, and yet it sits underutilized.

That wiggly stretch of Pike Street is one of my favorite stretches of street in the metro area. I loved taking Dixie down the hill on the days when I-75 was backed up in the afternoon (which was most days). Covington is so full of cool stuff - sometimes I wish everything within the 275 loop could just become its own city-state.

 

I'm with you there.  It would be nice if at least Kenton county and Campbell county merged and all/most of the NKY cities just became neighborhoods within "Covington".  Then you'd have more of a Minneapolis/St. Paul situation between Cincinnati and Covington, with some chance of partnership, rather than the constant squabbling that we've always experienced in this region.

Yeah, the only NKY river city that really seems to have its stuff together is Bellevue.  I wish others would use them as an example and follow suit.

 

I'm really hoping the streetcar makes it to those cities and is used properly as a redevelopment tool.  I do think that as prices rise in Cincinnati's core NKY is the next logical step for revitalization - its a  heck of a lot eaiser to turn around those neighborhoods than it is to turn around the far more bombed out Cincy ones (as much as I love the west end for instance similar housing is available and ready to go at a much cheaper price point instead of spending 10s of thousands of dollars on rehab).

I still think a touristy heritage line along the riverfront would be a nice thing to have. It could go from Paul Brown to Montgomery Inn. Two trains, one traveling each direction and syncing so they always pass one another at the halfway point.

 

How about from Paul Brown over to Columbia-Tusculum?  Part of which using the row that's there for the Oasis line, that way it could be a scenic riverside heritage line that would have some practical use too and you could sell it as going from downtown to the painted ladies of Columbia-Tusculum.

 

Shame Cincinnati is so backwards about how it looks at its untapped assets...

How about from Paul Brown over to Columbia-Tusculum?  Part of which using the row that's there for the Oasis line, that way it could be a scenic riverside heritage line that would have some practical use too and you could sell it as going from downtown to the painted ladies of Columbia-Tusculum.

 

Shame Cincinnati is so backwards about how it looks at its untapped assets...

 

There's only so much development money to go around, fellas.

I still think a touristy heritage line along the riverfront would be a nice thing to have. It could go from Paul Brown to Montgomery Inn. Two trains, one traveling each direction and syncing so they always pass one another at the halfway point.

 

How about from Paul Brown over to Columbia-Tusculum?  Part of which using the row that's there for the Oasis line, that way it could be a scenic riverside heritage line that would have some practical use too and you could sell it as going from downtown to the painted ladies of Columbia-Tusculum.

 

Shame Cincinnati is so backwards about how it looks at its untapped assets...

 

It's not that simple. The entire East End along the Ohio River is a flood plain. There's a reason this area was largely abandoned in the mid-1900's. After the 1937 flood everyone left the neighborhood because their homes were either destroyed or they were scared of it happening again. Everything becomes more expensive in this area: building foundations, sewers, road repair, elevating the principle structure, insurance, etc.

Perhaps this situation will put pressure on NKY to try to get funding for the Race St. - Madison Ave. bridge that was fully funded in the mid-1990s until KY decided to shift it to Maysville (the circa 2000-2001 cable-stayed bridge in Maysville was built with this money).  NKY should be making it a goal to get TANK buses off of the circuitous Clay Wade Bailey bridge onto a more direct link immediately parallel to the suspension bridge.  Obviously, tracks could also be built that would enable streetcars to cross.  This could be a narrow and relatively inexpensive bridge since there is such light vehicular traffic on the suspension bridge. 

There will never be a bridge close to the Suspension Bridge. I wouldn't even want one there. It would ruin the aesthetic of the bridge. It will never happen.

 

The closest I could see a bridge being built would be Madison Ave connecting to Elm Street. Even that I think people would throw a fit about.

Perhaps this situation will put pressure on NKY to try to get funding for the Race St. - Madison Ave. bridge that was fully funded in the mid-1990s until KY decided to shift it to Maysville (the circa 2000-2001 cable-stayed bridge in Maysville was built with this money).  NKY should be making it a goal to get TANK buses off of the circuitous Clay Wade Bailey bridge onto a more direct link immediately parallel to the suspension bridge.  Obviously, tracks could also be built that would enable streetcars to cross.  This could be a narrow and relatively inexpensive bridge since there is such light vehicular traffic on the suspension bridge. 

 

I think that ship has sailed. The Banks development and Smale Park would now make a Race to Madison bridge virtually impossible. Maybe Elm Street to Covington, but the IRS is in the way.

^Actually, I don't think the IRS matters.  Madison runs all the way to Riverside Drive, lines up better with Elm than it does Race, and is the most important North/South street in that section of Covington.  The only problem is that Elm is one way, so you'd have to branch it out to Elm and Race somehow unless you converted Elm to two way.  It would be pretty great to have Walnut, Vine, Race, and Elm tied into bridges to Covington, though.  That would make it much easier for visitors to travel between the two cities.

How about from Paul Brown over to Columbia-Tusculum?  Part of which using the row that's there for the Oasis line, that way it could be a scenic riverside heritage line that would have some practical use too and you could sell it as going from downtown to the painted ladies of Columbia-Tusculum.

 

Shame Cincinnati is so backwards about how it looks at its untapped assets...

 

There's only so much development money to go around, fellas.

 

I was thinking pie in the sky, I'd suggest the gondola to Mt Adams before suggesting something like this.  If Cincy had SF level monies lol.

^Actually, I don't think the IRS matters.  Madison runs all the way to Riverside Drive, lines up better with Elm than it does Race, and is the most important North/South street in that section of Covington.  The only problem is that Elm is one way, so you'd have to branch it out to Elm and Race somehow unless you converted Elm to two way.  It would be pretty great to have Walnut, Vine, Race, and Elm tied into bridges to Covington, though.  That would make it much easier for visitors to travel between the two cities.

Elm's two-way through the Banks

 

Thanks!  I never drive on that section of Elm, so I just assumed it was one way.  Even better.

^Actually, I don't think the IRS matters.  Madison runs all the way to Riverside Drive, lines up better with Elm than it does Race, and is the most important North/South street in that section of Covington.  The only problem is that Elm is one way, so you'd have to branch it out to Elm and Race somehow unless you converted Elm to two way.  It would be pretty great to have Walnut, Vine, Race, and Elm tied into bridges to Covington, though.  That would make it much easier for visitors to travel between the two cities.

 

We already have two surface-street bridges between Cincinnati and Covington, and a third if you count Brent Spence.  I guess I'm a little confused how a third/fourth bridge would make it that much easier to get to Covington.  I feel like most of the time the Suspension Bridge and Clay Wade Bailey are underutilized as it is.

I just streetviewed the area, its pretty intact though there are abandoned buildings and gaps where demos took place here and there.

 

Covington in general is way more intact than Cincinnati neighborhoods of the same vintage.  Its shocking that the area hasn't turned around anymore than it has...

 

There are some absolutely beautiful neighborhoods in Convington. And your right, they are much more intact than Cincinnati's.

 

That said, by street viewing most of Covington, it seems like most of the buildings are short and squat (and don't really encompass to much land space), and are mostly about 2 stories tall, sometimes on occasion 3 stories. I would believe it's much easier and cheaper to save and maintain those buildings compared to the 3-5 story tenement buildings you commonly see around Cincinnati. 

^Actually, I don't think the IRS matters.  Madison runs all the way to Riverside Drive, lines up better with Elm than it does Race, and is the most important North/South street in that section of Covington.  The only problem is that Elm is one way, so you'd have to branch it out to Elm and Race somehow unless you converted Elm to two way.  It would be pretty great to have Walnut, Vine, Race, and Elm tied into bridges to Covington, though.  That would make it much easier for visitors to travel between the two cities.

 

We already have two surface-street bridges between Cincinnati and Covington, and a third if you count Brent Spence.  I guess I'm a little confused how a third/fourth bridge would make it that much easier to get to Covington.  I feel like most of the time the Suspension Bridge and Clay Wade Bailey are underutilized as it is.

 

It's fine for locals, but out-of-towners get very confused by the streetgrid between FWW and the river.  I can't tell you how many times I've ridden with someone who was trying to get from downtown to mid/east Covington (Roebling Point) and had no idea how to do it.  If I'm not feeding them instructions, they end up making a lot of unnecessary turns and often end up crossing a bridge because they find it, not the one that they were looking for:

 

1) The CWB is inconvenient and hidden on the Ohio side.

2) The Brent Spence is fine if you know that you can exit on 5th or 9th on the west side of Covington and how that translates to where you're going, which is rarely the case for visitors. 

3) Sycamore just kind of ends at 3rd, leading you to the BSB, but if you want to avoid the expressway and reach Roebling Point:

4) You have to know that the Roebling is between Walnut and Vine specifically, because if you overshoot it and turn on Main (I mean Joe Nuxall Way) you don't know it until you see the bridge when you get to Mering Way, but you can't get to it without looping all the way down to Elm to Freedom Way to Vine (oops, I mean Rosa Parks Way).  The street names at the Banks are ridiculous and confusing.  They also don't all continue to Mering Way, and they're two-way yet feed into one-way streets at 2nd.  It's pretty easy to end up on a tour of the Banks when you just want to cross the river.

 

Yes, GPS can help with this.  And no, it wouldn't be worth building a bridge to ease this confusion.  But if one were added anyway to handle the streetcar, it sure would be a nice side-benefit to know that if you're driving south toward the Banks, you're almost certainly going to reach a bridge.  Would it get a lot of traffic?  Probably not.  Would it make navigating between the two cities simpler?  Absolutely.

 

Also, none of that touches on the fact that the Roebling can't handle busses or streetcars anymore.  It's a beautiful bridge, but in some respects, it doesn't really exist.

Would it be possible to do structural reinforcement to allow the Roebling bridge to be able to handle larger vehicles again?

There will never be a bridge close to the Suspension Bridge. I wouldn't even want one there. It would ruin the aesthetic of the bridge. It will never happen.

 

Well, it almost did happen.  The bridge was fully funded 20 years ago.  I suspect the money was shifted away because there has been an effort to keep sensible crossings from connecting Ohio and Kentucky for 150 years.  The suspension bridge was purposefully thrown out of alignment with the street grid in order to increase its cost.  The bridge company was forced to buy expensive riverfront real estate for its approaches instead of it simply lining up with public right-of-ways.  The KY Transportation Cabinet banned TANK's buses from the bridge back around 2010 which has forced them to use the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge for every route, adding about two miles to every round trip.  It also hurt the utility of the TANK transit center in the parking garage right next to the Suspension Bridge. 

 

The continued lack of cooperation between Ohio and Kentucky is happening because DT Cincinnati interests don't want Covington or Newport to compete for Class A office tenants.  The recent completion of Queen City Square created a glut of office space in Cincinnati and a subsequent migration of tenants from the River Center towers to Cincinnati.  This loss of earnings tax revenue has been devastating for Covington.  The old FWW had a direct exit ramp to The Suspension Bridge, which made the River Center towers a lot more accessible.  I don't think it's any accident that access to the bridge was "hidden" from the expressway off ramps during the rebuild, or that a new bridge at Race St. was scuttled.

 

There is of course the possibility that the suspension bridge could be reconstructed with a new deck capable of supporting buses and streetcars, but there is a lot of hesitation to do so due to questions about what is going on with the towers.  There is an issue with the towers being pulled toward each other by contracting main cables every winter and pushed away from one another during the summer, and it's unknown if this action is undermining the piers under the water level where they meet the piles.  This was caused by the use of iron bearings under the tower saddles during construction rather than steel.  The iron was crushed by the weight and flexing of the cables before the bridge was completed and so the whole thing has been wiggling back and forth every year since about 1867.