^ City Council Chambers, Tuesday @ 1:00p

^ City Council Chambers, Tuesday @ 1:00p

 

And if you can't make it you should email your thoughts to the Councilmembers (listed in order of importance of needing to change minds/hearts):

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Ok, I'm trying to understand this.  The streetcars function is to be able to get people around and when the large events are going to happen and there will be lots of people in downtown they don't want to use it?  It's like buying a new air conditioner, but you turn it off when it gets really hot.  Or perhaps drain the swimming pools in the summer, don't want people to use them when people might get in them.  Maybe we should cancel streetcar service when there are conventions in town too.  Maybe no service during sporting events as well. 

 

These events can stay in downtown and keep the streetcar running.  Adjustments just have to be made to the events.  Would there be a way to run some of these events parallel to the streetcar route so no matter where people are they can walk a block and ride?           

Ok, I'm trying to understand this.  The streetcars function is to be able to get people around and when the large events are going to happen and there will be lots of people in downtown they don't want to use it?  It's like buying a new air conditioner, but you turn it off when it gets really hot.  Or perhaps drain the swimming pools in the summer, don't want people to use them when people might get in them.  Maybe we should cancel streetcar service when there are conventions in town too.  Maybe no service during sporting events as well. 

 

These events can stay in downtown and keep the streetcar running.  Adjustments just have to be made to the events.  Would there be a way to run some of these events parallel to the streetcar route so no matter where people are they can walk a block and ride?           

 

I just have a really hard time believing that one of the 95 police officers working Oktoberfest can't clear the crowd for the streetcar to come through.  It's just not that big of a deal.  I'm sure it's done in many places around the world.   

 

 

^ A Google search brings up plenty of examples of streetcars moving about through crowds of pedestrians. It doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere else on the planet, but for some reason people think it's an unprecedented problem, unique to Cincinnati. At most, the city should put up a few crowd barricades along the tracks and funnel people through designated crossings - that way it's easier for one of those cops who would otherwise be standing around to step over and spend 10 seconds clearing the drunks off the tracks.

We need two corridors, one on Main and one on Walnut, each maybe twenty feet wide. That's all. The train will move slowly and ring its bell, and the people will step out of the way.

 

You guys should go to City Council Chambers Tuesday at 1:00p and say these things. They're tired of hearing from me.

"It doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere else on the planet, but for some reason people think it's an unprecedented problem, unique to Cincinnati"

 

I think that quote pretty much describes Cincinnatians in general, and I laughed out loud while reading it.

I can't go to the meeting so I sent an email out to council and suggested creating a working group that included CPD, DOTE, SORTA, etc where event organizers could go for guidance so they could all talk together. I said it would be incredibly short sighted to shut down the downtown portion of the streetcar (possibly during the first weekend of operation) to accommodate a festival that could shift it's footprint west or to the river. I supported the idea of shutting down the downtown loop for an hour or two during events like the Flying Pig, but shutting down entire days or weekends is ridiculous.

The streetcar stop by the Aronoff Center is undergoing repair after being damaged by a stolen car, according to John Deatrick.

Think of the fare revenue that these events would provide for the streetcar if left to operate and shuttle people throughout the basin. Just Taste and Okto make the mind soar. Move these to The Banks. Let people start and end their day in OTR with our streetcar providing the ride between.

 

But no, this sets up the same scenario we've been seeing since day one: hamper the system's design/size/capability/function and then complain that it is not living up to expectations. "The streetcar is not collecting enough fares." Right, but you steal literally thousands of fares from it by shutting it down for 4 days while 600,000 people visit TB/CBD/OTR.

 

Only in Cincinnati.

But no, this sets up the same scenario we've been seeing since day one: hamper the system's design/size/capability/function and then complain that it is not living up to expectations...Only in Cincinnati.

 

That's a pretty typical MO for a DINO like Cranley (or any modern day conservative).  It's the usual "hurr durr government can't do anything right" rhetoric that they deliberately make self-fulfilling. 

Everyone reading this, if they are not able to make it to council chambers today, should send their feedback to the mayor and council via email. Here is what I sent:

 

To:

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected],

[email protected]

 

Dear Mr. Mayor and Council Members,

 

I am writing to you to oppose a proposed ordinance that would shut down the Cincinnati Streetcar during seven "heritage" events each year.

 

During events like Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest, which each bring over half a million visitors to our urban core, the streetcar has the potential to reach its highest ridership levels. People visiting Cincinnati for Oktoberfest could enjoy the events on Fifth Street and subsequently take the streetcar to visit the city's historic Brewery District in Over-the-Rhine.

 

Additionally, once the streetcar is up and running, many people will come to rely on it as their primary form of transportation, using it to get to work, run errands, and for their other transportation needs. We would not allow any other piece of transportation infrastructure--such as the Western Hills Viaduct--to be shut down seven times each year for special events, as this would pose a major unnecessary inconvenience to our citizens.

 

Perhaps one concern is the safety of pedestrians around the streetcar vehicles. However, there are examples from all around the world of streetcar or tram systems that coexist with large events and crowded pedestrian areas. Many of our council members have seen this firsthand in Portland, Oregon, where the Portland Streetcar travels through a pedestrian-only area of Portland State University's campus. The Cincinnati Streetcar vehicles have a very loud horn, are very large and noticeable, and can travel at a slow speed through crowded pedestrian areas without causing any safety issues.

 

Cincinnati has invested $148 million in the streetcar system and has committed to funding its operations for the next 30 years. In order for this investment to not be wasted, we must ensure that the project is successful. Shutting down the streetcar during events that bring hundreds of thousands of visitors the the Central Business District and Over-the-Rhine goes against the goal of maximizing ridership and making sure the project is a success.

 

Thank you for your consideration,

 

Travis Estell

Over-the-Rhine

It sounds like the proposed ordinance to shut down the streetcar during "heritage events" is not going over well.

 

It sounds like the proposed ordinance to shut down the streetcar during "heritage events" is not going over well.

 

JWilliams is tweeting about, your right.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwilliamscincy

I don't know if you need to stop service for the races however, it makes absolutely no sense to have it run during taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest. Only bad things can happen when you have a moving vehicle running through a street festival with a bunch of drunks. Bad idea to run it through the festivals. The races don't have the drunk factor to it so it would make more sense from a safety perspective.

I really don't see the safety issue. You can have the streetcar cross 5th Street at 3 MPH. The streetcar is huge and unmissable and will be blaring its locomotive horn or ringing its bell. You can have a police office walking in front of it or one standing on each side.

 

On the other hand, thousands of Oktoberfest visitors might be interested in visiting the Brewery District at the northern end of the streetcar route to check out Rhinegeist, Moerlein, or Taft's, or to take one of the Queen City Underground tours to learn more about the city's historic lager tunnels.

I don't know if you need to stop service for the races however, it makes absolutely no sense to have it run during taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest. Only bad things can happen when you have a moving vehicle running through a street festival with a bunch of drunks. Bad idea to run it through the festivals. The races don't have the drunk factor to it so it would make more sense from a safety perspective.

 

By this logic, said drunks shouldn't even be walking the streets.  I mean after all, how can we trust them to walk on the sidewalk next to vehicular traffic as they leave the festival area?  Shall we remove all other obstacles in their path as well? Poles, trash cans, curbs?

 

By all means let's dumb down society and shut down everything just because people might imbibe alcohol. 

I don't know if you need to stop service for the races however, it makes absolutely no sense to NOT have it run during taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest. Only GOOD things can happen when you have a moving vehicle TRANSPORTING PEOPLE through a street festival HELPING SPREAD THEM THROUGHOUT THE DOWNTOWN BASIN. GOOD idea to run it through the festivals.

 

I fixed a few things in your quote. I litterally makes zero sense to shut down your public transportation when there are large amounts of PUBLIC NEEDING TO BE TRANSPORTED. Let's not even consider that drunk driving is a real thing...

I see your point about the benefits. I just think about all the times I have been to Oktoberfest and Taste and when it is packed with throngs of people, trying to clear space for the streetcar to move could be a herculean task. I have been there as they have tried to move an ambulance through the crowd and it was a difficult endeavor to say the least. To move a streetcar every 1/2 hour through the crowd I am afraid would be crazy, unless they somehow plan ahead and have some type of gates to block the crowd at those times./

To me, this is just even more justification that these events don't belong on Fifth Street in the long run. The Banks/Smale Park is a much better location in the long run. Hopefully the organizers of Taste and Oktoberfest have already started looking into that. They have known that the streetcar is coming for something like 8 years now. They should have been thinking about how it would impact their festivals from the very beginning.

 

One other point that a few council members touched on: These are city streets. Festival organizers ask for permission to shut down our city streets to hold these festivals. We have the right to say no. And even if we do grant permission, we can ask questions like, "Did you make an effort to find a different location for this event that doesn't disrupt the Government Square bus hub and the streetcar?" and make the organizers justify it each year.

While there are benefits to Smale park, there is so much energy that is created having the events in the Center of the City and Fountain Square. I attended the taste many times when it was on Central Parkway and there is just so much more energy to it on 5th street than there ever was on Central. There are certainly trade offs to moving the event to Smale park (I prefer to see it going to the Banks more than Smale) and those will have to be weighed against each other.

 

I am ok closing the streetcar on those days. Plus, who is to say it has to close, it can simply do a loop in OTR on those weekends.

And then miss out on a half a million people's worth of potential riders. Which calls into question the point of it if it can't even be used at the times it is most necessary.

 

Closing during festivals is a terrible idea. I'm glad it's being met with harsh criticism.

Why can't the people who run these festivals put on their big boy/girl pants and accommodate the perpendicular crossing of the streetcar at two spots in the festival?  What is so hard about that?  Are we really that small time here in Cincinnati that we can't do what's done in cities all over the world?

Here, I fixed the problem! I agree that there should still be events at Fountain square, but there is more room, less conflicts with transit and interstate/automobile traffic, and more space for tents and concerts with this layout. Multiple beer gardens could be set up on green space, you could still have concerts and vendors at Fountain Square, and a large concert stage or tent could be set up in the great lawn as well.

 

*EDIT- This probably couldn't be done until at least 2017, and in the mean time we just need crossing guards.

Here's an idea: If Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati want to shut down the downtown loop of the streetcar, they should pay SORTA for the loss in ridership of the streetcar. Similar to how you can reserve parking meters by paying for the parking spot the entire time to reimburse the city for its lost revenue.

Council just passed everything a few minutes ago according to J. Williams.  Festivals take priority over streetcar operations for the safety of our drunken citizens. 7 events per year in total will take precedence. 

 

Cranley rejoices.

If I'm not mistaken, the city has the authority to ask for the streetcar to shut down. Not sure if it's guaranteed.

And if you want to contact someone, maybe you should contact the Cincinnati Regional Chamber. Flood them with emails and tweets asking them to keep the full streetcar route running. They are the ones who run Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati.

Findlay Market expressed their wish that the streetcar is only shut down for the parade itself and is restored ASAP. Moving it from Findlay Market itself as a starting point is a nonstarter for them, which I agree with. It's their biggest advertising event of the year and only shuts down service for a few hours when you can't drive down the street anyway.

Cranley will crancel the streetcar every chance he gets. This is a setback, but one that we can work around through speaking with the organizations that run these events. Does anyone know who voted which way and why did Simpson abstain?

This issue is SO much ado about nothing.  I can't believe all of the feigned concern and hours spent blathering about it.  Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest shouldn't be on the streets anymore.  The city should force organizers to move to the riverfront instead of allowing them to disrupt business and traffic in the heart of the CBD year after year.  The riverfront would be a beautiful venue with lots of nearby parking to boot.  It would be a much more appropriate location but I can only guess that the park board doesn't want to deal with the trash and inconvenience the CBD has had to endure all of these years.  Now we can add an additional inconvenience.  Ridiculous!

Shutting down operations for a few hours during major events isn't an issue, in my opinion. The races are very early during a weekend morning and wouldn't impact the schedule much, and not many people move around downtown during the Opening Day parade anyway - since the majority are watching the parade. What would be a horrible mistake is shutting down the streetcar for 3 full days during Taste and Oktoberfest, when I imagine the streetcar would otherwise have some of its highest ridership of the year. I agree that contacting the Cincinnati Regional Chamber is the way to go.

 

Also, what is the Health Expo? Their website says it is at Washington Park - why would an event in Washington Park want to close the streetcar down?

The Health Expo is put on by Dwight Tillery's Closing the Health Gap organization. There is no legitimate reason for them to oppose the streetcar except that there are a lot of ties between Tillery and Cranley. The mayor probably called him up and told him to send someone to council chambers today to oppose the streetcar.

The whole point of this from Cranley's perspective is to emphasize that the streetcars are in the way.  If you were at the TRAC meeting in 2011 that saw the uptown connector defunded, Kasich had his people emphasize over and over again safety at grade crossings.  The streetcar money was deflected to railroad grade separation projects in northern ohio that still haven't been built. 

The Health Expo is put on by Dwight Tillery's Closing the Health Gap organization. There is no legitimate reason for them to oppose the streetcar except that there are a lot of ties between Tillery and Cranley. The mayor probably called him up and told him to send someone to council chambers today to oppose the streetcar.

 

Is it even one of the largest events in the park? Lumenocity, City Flea, MPMF, July 4th, Taste of OTR all huge. Don't see why Health Expo needs special streetcar shut down for loading/unloading.

These event organizers have had over 2 years to plan their 2016/17 events around the streetcar and failed to do so. That's on them. I grant the Opening Day Parade and Flying Pig a pass since it's pretty hard to avoid interrupting the streetcar. The garbage Health Expo and the Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest should be better prepared. No wonder the Chamber events have remained as terrible as always. They should strive to be better every year, but seem to sit on their hands and relish in mediocrity and status quo.

 

Derek Bauman[/member]: Do you think you and others involved with the streetcar would be able to craft a statement to present at various community councils (West End Community Council, OTR Community Council, Downtown Residents Council, Mt. Auburn Community Council, CUF, etc) to formally request the Cincinnati Regional Chamber abstain from requesting the streetcar is shut down for Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati? All formally saying it would have a negative impact on both the events and the residents/visitors to those neighborhoods. That might be a way to prevent the use of this power. The letter could offer any logistical support they could provide to the Chamber and SORTA/the city. With the 90-day requirement to notify the city of the desire to utilize the option, the Chamber would have to notify the city by mid-June for Oktoberfest (which is the first weekend of revenue service for the streetcar), so getting these out quickly would need to be a priority.

Actually the groundbreaking was in February 2012, so they've had over four years to plan. If Oktoberfest planners started now from a dead-start, don't you think they could figure out how to create two transit corridors for the streetcar on Main and Walnut.

^I don't think the Chamber puts any additional effort into the festival any year. Every year these events are the same tired format with no variation. I understand tradition for their events, but there are obvious ways to make it better, yet they refuse to do anything different. Perhaps the Chamber shouldn't be in charge of these events and should hand them off to someone else who is more capable of putting together large scale events. I'm counting the two years since it was confirmed going to go forward after the late 2013 vote to resume construction. But yeah, they should have prepared for this for years and altered the route. I think they just don't care.

Per the twitter reports out of the meeting Yvette Simpson raised the question regarding the impact on operation revenue and wanting that prior to voting, but I would also be concerned on the impact on getting a good value on the sponsorships. I have to assume a company will see it as a lower return if the system is not running on the days it would get exposure to the widest group of people. Whether this is a significant impact, who knows, but I am sure this timing is poor as those agreements have not been signed.

 

 

Derek Bauman[/member]: Do you think you and others involved with the streetcar would be able to craft a statement to present at various community councils (West End Community Council, OTR Community Council, Downtown Residents Council, Mt. Auburn Community Council, CUF, etc) to formally request the Cincinnati Regional Chamber abstain from requesting the streetcar is shut down for Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati? All formally saying it would have a negative impact on both the events and the residents/visitors to those neighborhoods. That might be a way to prevent the use of this power. The letter could offer any logistical support they could provide to the Chamber and SORTA/the city. With the 90-day requirement to notify the city of the desire to utilize the option, the Chamber would have to notify the city by mid-June for Oktoberfest (which is the first weekend of revenue service for the streetcar), so getting these out quickly would need to be a priority.

 

That's a great idea. The Downtown Residents Council, Main Street OTR, the OTR Chamber of Commerce, etc. should all write to the Cincy Chamber and ask them to keep the streetcar running during Taste and Oktoberfest. In particular, the OTR Chamber could build on the idea that visitors to Oktoberfest might want to come up to OTR and explore the city's actual brewing heritage. Or visitors to Taste might be interested in checking out the thriving restaurant scene in OTR. But that becomes a whole lot less convenient if the streetcar's shut down.

Here's something quick I wrote up last night. Let me know if you have any suggestions. I tried to make it as positive as possible and make it something that a community council won't nitpick wording out of.

 

Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce,

 

It has come to our attention that you have requested from the City of Cincinnati the ability to stop operations of the Cincinnati Streetcar (Streetcar) for entire weekends during your annual events held for Oktoberfest Zinzinnati (Oktoberfest) and the Taste of Cincinnati (Taste). As the neighborhoods most affected by the closure of the Streetcar, we urge you to abstain from using this power the City has granted you. Even partial closures of the route will have vastly negative outcomes for the functionality of the Streetcar and the experience of visitors to the region.

 

We believe that the Streetcar can be an enormous asset to the heritage events in our city. They will easily shuttle people between Findlay Market and the Riverfront to your events. Over 550,000 people attend Taste and 650,000 people attend Oktoberfest each year. Being able to utilize the streetcar will encourage people living in these neighborhoods to visit these events, and it will encourage visitors to patronize the businesses in our neighborhoods.

 

With some modifications to the old format, the Streetcar could be incorporated into the design of the festivals and encourage higher attendance and an overall better experience. If the Chamber would prefer to keep these events on Fifth Street for the foreseeable future, we urge you to work with Streetcar operators as well as the City and the Cincinnati Police Department to establish a system in which the two events can coexist with the Streetcar.

 

In the future, we highly recommend the Chamber consider moving the events of 2017 and beyond to another location to minimize the interference. Shifting the festivals west could eliminate any potential interference with the Streetcar. Creating a footprint that is more of a square shape, extending to Sixth Street or Fourth Street, could allow the festivals to expand the overall footprint while stopping at Walnut and not interfering with Streetcar operations. Finally, the festivals could be moved to The Banks and/or the Smale Riverfront Park. These locations are tailor-made for large-scale events like this. They work extremely well for Reds Opening Day, the 2015 All Star Game, and other wildly popular events.

 

We strongly advise you allow the Streetcar to operate during Oktoberfest Zinzinnati and Taste of Cincinnati throughout the entire route to alleviate traffic concerns and increase accessibility to your events and our neighborhoods. The Streetcar is an important asset for our communities and we hope you will be a positive partner in our city’s continued evolution. If you would like any additional insight or logistical help, we would be glad to be of any assistance possible.

 

I would be willing to bring this to the Mt. Auburn and OTR Community Councils (unless someone else wants to approach OTR). I would like to get a vote from the community councils approving the text as soon as possible so we can give it to the Chamber before they formally request service be shut down. Let me know if you have any changes you think should be made.

It might be worth adding something about how streetcars travel through densely-packed pedestrian areas in cities all over the world. Otherwise I think this letter is great and this is the best approach for moving forward.

I would suggest the letter avoid the suggestion of moving the events. The organizers have stated they're open to moving them, but they haven't stated it in a way that convinces me they're really open to it. I think they have a "it's not broken, don't fix it" mentality as both festivals are very popular and grow every year. Moving the events would be ideal, and in my opinion make them much more enjoyable, but the immediate concern for me is having the two coexist over the next two years (especially Oktoberfest later this year). I think after the 2018 deadline the streetcar will be popular enough that shutting it down will be viewed by a majority of people, and council members, as the poor decision it really is. I think moving the events to better venues could be broken out as another issue altogether.

Can we please include Metro in these conversations though? It drives me insane that they close down Government Square for all of these events too.

I wouldn't suggest moving the events as the first remedy. They will say, "OK we'll study that and get back to you." All we need is two 20' corrridors on Main and Walnut. That should be easy enough.

I will take out the language about moving the events. Any other suggestions?

 

Here's the updated text:

 

Cincinnati Regional Chamber of Commerce,

 

  It has come to our attention that you have requested from the City of Cincinnati the ability to stop operations of the Cincinnati Streetcar (Streetcar) for entire weekends during your annual events held for Oktoberfest Zinzinnati (Oktoberfest) and the Taste of Cincinnati (Taste). As the neighborhoods most affected by the closure of the Streetcar, we urge you to abstain from using this power the City has granted you. Even partial closures of the route will have vastly negative outcomes for the functionality of the Streetcar and the experience of visitors to the region.

 

  We believe that the Streetcar can be an enormous asset to the heritage events in our city. They will easily shuttle people between Findlay Market and the Riverfront to your events. Over 550,000 people attend Taste and 650,000 people attend Oktoberfest each year. Being able to utilize the streetcar will encourage people living in these neighborhoods to visit these events, and it will encourage visitors to patronize the businesses in our neighborhoods.

 

  With some modifications to the current format, the Streetcar could be incorporated into the design of the festivals and encourage higher attendance and an overall better experience. We suggest you reach out to other event organizers in cities with surface rail transit to learn how they work festivals around the infrastructure in their cities. If the Chamber would prefer to keep these events on Fifth Street for the foreseeable future, we urge you to work with Streetcar operators including Metro and Transdev, as well as the City and the Cincinnati Police Department to establish a system in which the two events can safely coexist with the Streetcar. These events have the ability to not only coexist, but to thrive by utilizing the assets of our city.

 

  We strongly advise you allow the Streetcar to operate during Oktoberfest Zinzinnati and Taste of Cincinnati throughout the entire route to alleviate traffic concerns and increase accessibility to your events and our neighborhoods. The Streetcar is an important asset for our communities and we hope you will be a positive partner in our city’s continued evolution. If you would like any additional insight or logistical help, we would be glad to be of any assistance possible.

Ryan, since we are pandering a bit to this crowd, I would first go with something similar to this out of the gate, to really lubricate their wheels.  Honestly, they are idiots if they don't take advantage of the streetcar.  Then, maybe edit down a couple parts in there where there may be some repeat.  Just my opinion though:

 

"The Taste of Cincinnati and Oktoberfest will become much more accessible to many more people because of the increase in footprint size of parking areas.  More people can park at the Banks, Fountain Square, Washington Park, Gateway Quarter, other streets throughout OTR off the beaten path of the festivals, etc., and take the streetcar in.  This will reduce costs for the visitors and through word of mouth, will encourage more people to visit these festivals, especially seniors and persons with disabilities who would otherwise have trouble walking long distances like from the Findlay Market area to Fountain Square, or even from the Banks to Fountain Square.  Taking advantage of the streetcar gives the Chamber the opportunity to significantly grow and widen the scope of audience for these events.  Wasting this invaluable form of transportation is truly a missed opportunity for the Chamber, the City of Cincinnati and the taxpayers as a whole."

^ This is good

^I didn't want to include anything about parking because community councils are very concerned about parking spaces, and I'm worried they would get into a tizzy worrying if they were going to be overrun with people parking on residential streets to go to Oktoberfest.

^ In a business sense, you could make the case "Hey, these people are parked out in front of your business, this can be a big boon to business for you on these days, especially with so many crowded in one spot, some people may want to sit down and eat instead of in a crowd".

 

But, maybe the best thing to do is to leave the part out about parking on the side streets.  Best to not let them see that, it is good as is.  There is a lot of space in the Gateway Quarter Garages, Alms + Doepke, and Washington Park.

 

IF they do mention to you, "Well what about overflow parking and filling up our streets?"  I would simply respond with, "I very much understand your concern.  I don't believe this will happen because of the capacity of the nearby garages.  If it does happen, the benefit is that you get much more foot traffic, and people walking past your business who may be from a far out suburb who hasn't been downtown in ages.  It is an amazing opportunity for free marketing and it will not drive your regular customers away."