Well what's up with CIN?  When people type erratically, it's because they don't read much. 

I'm sorry, how is it not densely populated enough? I gave you answers upthread and you never responded to them, but the core of Cincinnati is plenty dense enough for rail. 15,000 people/square mile is nothing to squawk at within the catchment area of the streetcar.

 

You also are not looking at the current transit numbers with an objective viewpoint if you make that blanket statement. Our system is incredibly underfunded and services other cities within the county that don't have to pay a dime to have service connected to them. The city itself is on the hook for the entire county and obviously Ohio greatly underfunds transit as it is. It's amazing we have as good of a system as we do under the circumstances.

 

I regularly walk from my place at 15th and Race to the rivefront. That walk takes me half an hour. The streetcar doing that same route would take half that. I will absolutely utilize it to get to the riverfront to then walk over the bridge to my friends' places in Newport. It's not slow, it's just as fast as driving is which but then removes that annoyance of parking on either end.

 

ALL transit systems, roads included, are meant to cover expenses through the economic advantages they open up. I'm not sure why you're making that statement as if this is somehow unique to Cincy.

 

The city also utilizes a small portion of property taxes from new development along the line to pay for the operating expenses. In one week last month we received enough development news to cover over $400,000 annually for streetcar expenses. At the rate we're going all expenses will be paid for in a few years and then any other property taxes will go directly towards other funding needs the city has.

 

And that doesn't include any of the spinoff taxes created like income taxes from new residents, sales taxes, etc.

 

All cities have had budget cuts; now CIN is on the hook for the Streetcar.  The dense areas you name also have to core riders.  Regardless, the streetcar is being implemented as development catalyst. Seriously, I hope it works in spurring development.  Like many new transit lines: is it spurring development or would the development have happened regardless.  In other words, is ORT happening because of the streetcar or even more so?

 

In the bold you mentioned, just wondering if you live in Cincinnati or if you follow the news.

 

I made a post about it but I think you must not have seen it.  You see weekly announcements of new business and new residential conversions and new construction specifically stating the streetcar as a catalyst.  You see developers say "People want to live within walking distance to a streetcar stop", you see people say "This is a perfect spot for 120 condos because the streetcar stop is right outside or within a block".  The whole area of Northern OTR was a dead zone with nothing but crumbling buildings and crime, besides a very small area around Findlay Market.  No with the streetcar connecting it to the rest of downtown and the Banks, etc., money is starting to pour in like crazy, because then you can take the streetcar from your residence around Findlay Market to the riverfront park, to restaurants on Vine, to Bars on Fountain Square, etc. without owning a car.  That is why it is blowing up with investment in that area.  It would not have happened regardless, I can guarantee you that.

 

I don't live in CIN so I can't follow all the news but am aware that the downtown-OTR area are gentrifying.  Now that I know the fare structure etc of the initial line, it makes sense to see the streetcar for the potential development it will spur.  Sorry I had to ask a few questions which to some people implies I didn't take my meds; bizarre.

 

This is obviously a touchy topic in Cincinnati.  But, like I stated, CIN seems to have the whole transit and spin off development paying for it figured out.  It may very well be the poster-city for getting rail transit done the right way.

 

 

 

Also, claiming the CIN streetcar is not slow somewhat undermines your other claims given that the streetcar is still being built.

 

You do know it's regularly testing, right? As in, we can see exactly how long it takes to get from one place to another in different conditions.

 

It goes as fast as traffic. Go walk around Downtown and attempt to keep up with traffic along the route and get back to me about thinking it's too early to claim that it's not slow.

 

Here's the deal: let the line open, novelty wears off, then evaluate, expand lines as needed.  Then again, you have the whole system paid for already.  You need to be in transit planning for other cities; you'd make a fortune.  You could become the James Corner of transit planning and design.

 

The $1.00 fare is the draw on this streetcar.

Don't mind Jake. He's our resident grump who likes to insult people and start Internet fights. Ignore him unless he is involved in a fact-based discussion. I would delete his remarks, but whatever. You've already seen them. I'll leave it there.

^^^this is funny that you say that we are a poster child for getting it done right. Previously streetcar opponents would yell and scream (and still do) that we didn't have a special improvement district for tax purposes set up to pay for streetcar operations. But the thing that Flynn came up with instead, rolling back a portion of the typical tax abatement given to new development and property improvements for neighborhoods served by the streetcar, is actually pretty innovative and may very well enable streetcar expansion to other neighborhoods. But the Mayor has already proposed alternate uses of any abatement rollback in non-streetcar neighborhoods.

Well what's up with CIN?  When people type erratically, it's because they don't read much.

 

Don't know what you're going on about but consider not all of us are as enlightened as you on topics ranging from transit planning to Weird Al wanting to parody Prince records. Some people can be polite know it all-s; others come across like pretentious ***s.

Don't mind Jake. He's our resident grump who likes to insult people and start Internet fights. Ignore him unless he is involved in a fact-based discussion. I would delete his remarks, but whatever. You've already seen them. I'll leave it there.

 

Oh, OK.  Got it.  Sounds like someone didn't take his meds and assumes others didn't as well.

WLW talk, like the words "Bottom Line", get on people's nerves around here.

 

Also, claiming the CIN streetcar is not slow somewhat undermines your other claims given that the streetcar is still being built.

 

You do know it's regularly testing, right? As in, we can see exactly how long it takes to get from one place to another in different conditions.

 

It goes as fast as traffic. Go walk around Downtown and attempt to keep up with traffic along the route and get back to me about thinking it's too early to claim that it's not slow.

 

Here's the deal: let the line open, novelty wears off, then evaluate, expand lines as needed.  Then again, you have the whole system paid for already.  You need to be in transit planning for other cities; you'd make a fortune.  You could become the James Corner of transit planning and design.

 

The $1.00 fare is the draw on this streetcar.

 

No, the draw of the Cincinnati Streetcar is that it connects our region's biggest employment center with a neighborhood that was full of hundreds of vacant buildings and vacant land (at the time the streetcar was first envisioned) that could support tens of thousands of residents.  In addition to this, there are a huge number of attractions along the route including two stadiums, our city's most important public square, several museums, several concert venues, the region's hottest restaurant and bar district, the region's central bus hub, and lots more.  There is no other "Phase 1" streetcar plan in America that can make those claims.  I actually expect that within a few years, we will be blowing away the ridership projections that came out of the early streetcar studies.  When those studies were done, Over-the-Rhine was an area that could theoretically be developed and gain a few thousand more residents.  Today, it has blown away everyone's expectations and new housing can not be built fast enough to satisfy the demand.  If even a fraction of the new residents take the streetcar to their job downtown, we will exceed those original estimates. And that's not even counting the area with biggest development potential -- the parking lots downtown that are slowly being replaced with new mid-rise residential towers.

Didn't they figure that it would only take 2% of workers, 2% of residents, and 2% of visitors taking round trips to meet the daily expectations at launch? That doesn't exactly seem like a hard task.

WLW talk, like the words "Bottom Line", get on people's nerves around here.

 

It seems like a lot things get on people's nerves around there.

Cincinnati in a nutshell :/

 

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^ It's more like, assuming that social media == reality, in a nutshell.

Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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Then either ignore the ignorant out of town people inquiring about the nature and set-up, especially the financing issue, or simply close the thread.  Building, operating and financing the streetcar the way Cincinnati has it set-up sounds pretty interesting to me.  Despite the numerous post and rehashing clichés and given the controversy about new rail systems in cities other than what are considered 'transit legacy' cities, which Cincinnati is not one of, you should expect questions and criticism.  It's called an open forum.

A couple times I've tried to catch the streetcar while walking and would not have been able to unless I broke into a run. It goes faster than people think. In cold weather, rain, snow, hot days, and carrying groceries back from market will all be times I will be thrilled to have the streetcar (even if I could have walked it).

 

For a $1.00, how could you not take the streetcar?

Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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Then either ignore the ignorant out of town people inquiring about the nature and set-up, especially the financing issue, or simply close the thread.  Building, operating and financing the streetcar the way Cincinnati has it set-up sounds pretty interesting to me.  Despite the numerous post and rehashing clichés and given the controversy about new rail systems in cities other than what are considered 'transit legacy' cities, which Cincinnati is not one of, you should expect questions and criticism.  It's called an open forum.

 

 

This thread is almost 10 years old and some people who post here have been involved in the issue or related issues for over 20 years.  Don't show up out of nowhere with an attitude that insinuates that people here haven't thought about this, that, or whatever.  No new criticism of streetcars, rail transit, or Amtrak has appeared in decades.  Opponents raise the same 5 or 6 issues over and over again, usually with the insinuation that rail proponents haven't thought of something.  A new variation is to bring up something with one of the newer streetcar systems.  Except there is no real, direct parallel with any of the other new streetcar systems to what is happening in Cincinnati right now because Cincinnati's built environment and the purpose of this streetcar line are markedly different than anywhere else.  So don't bring up Washington, Atlanta, or wherever.  It's not the same. 

 

Cincinnati has several parkways that were built between about 1915 and 1940.  They are completely different from one another.  They were built by different government entities (city park board, rapid transit commission, WPA, etc.) , they look different, they serve different purposes.  Yet they are all called "parkways".  Washington now has a "streetcar", Atlanta has a "streetcar", etc., but they have nothing in common with ours.  They funded differently, they run in different kinds of neighborhoods, they run different rolling stock, they are part of different kinds of expansion plans.  They operate in cities that already have rapid transit trunk lines, ours does not. 

 

 

 

 

Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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Then either ignore the ignorant out of town people inquiring about the nature and set-up, especially the financing issue, or simply close the thread.  Building, operating and financing the streetcar the way Cincinnati has it set-up sounds pretty interesting to me.  Despite the numerous post and rehashing clichés and given the controversy about new rail systems in cities other than what are considered 'transit legacy' cities, which Cincinnati is not one of, you should expect questions and criticism.  It's called an open forum.

 

 

This thread is almost 10 years old and some people who post here have been involved in the issue or related issues for over 20 years.  Don't show up out of nowhere with an attitude that insinuates that people here haven't thought about this, that, or whatever.  No new criticism of streetcars, rail transit, or Amtrak has appeared in decades.  Opponents raise the same 5 or 6 issues over and over again, usually with the insinuation that rail proponents haven't thought of something.  A new variation is to bring up something with one of the newer streetcar systems.  Except there is no real, direct parallel with any of the other new streetcar systems to what is happening in Cincinnati right now because Cincinnati's built environment and the purpose of this streetcar line are markedly different than anywhere else.  So don't bring up Washington, Atlanta, or wherever.  It's not the same. 

 

Cincinnati has several parkways that were built between about 1915 and 1940.  They are completely different from one another.  They were built by different government entities (city park board, rapid transit commission, WPA, etc.) , they look different, they serve different purposes.  Yet they are all called "parkways".  Washington now has a "streetcar", Atlanta has a "streetcar", etc., but they have nothing in common with ours.  They funded differently, they run in different kinds of neighborhoods, they run different rolling stock, they are part of different kinds of expansion plans.  They operate in cities that already have rapid transit trunk lines, ours does not.

 

See previous statement: ignore posts that get you upset, close the forum or, in your case, take your meds regularly.  But thanks for the krazy rant anyway.

 

The Cincinnati streetcar building sure has a lot of property, income and ''other taxes'' involved to get it up and running.  Given that it is so unique, like I stated, Cinci may become the poster child of a successful system.  All eyes are on Cinci's streetcar.  Don't be too cocky yet as only time will tell.

Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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Then either ignore the ignorant out of town people inquiring about the nature and set-up, especially the financing issue, or simply close the thread.  Building, operating and financing the streetcar the way Cincinnati has it set-up sounds pretty interesting to me.  Despite the numerous post and rehashing clichés and given the controversy about new rail systems in cities other than what are considered 'transit legacy' cities, which Cincinnati is not one of, you should expect questions and criticism.  It's called an open forum.

 

 

This thread is almost 10 years old and some people who post here have been involved in the issue or related issues for over 20 years.  Don't show up out of nowhere with an attitude that insinuates that people here haven't thought about this, that, or whatever.  No new criticism of streetcars, rail transit, or Amtrak has appeared in decades.  Opponents raise the same 5 or 6 issues over and over again, usually with the insinuation that rail proponents haven't thought of something.  A new variation is to bring up something with one of the newer streetcar systems.  Except there is no real, direct parallel with any of the other new streetcar systems to what is happening in Cincinnati right now because Cincinnati's built environment and the purpose of this streetcar line are markedly different than anywhere else.  So don't bring up Washington, Atlanta, or wherever.  It's not the same. 

 

Cincinnati has several parkways that were built between about 1915 and 1940.  They are completely different from one another.  They were built by different government entities (city park board, rapid transit commission, WPA, etc.) , they look different, they serve different purposes.  Yet they are all called "parkways".  Washington now has a "streetcar", Atlanta has a "streetcar", etc., but they have nothing in common with ours.  They funded differently, they run in different kinds of neighborhoods, they run different rolling stock, they are part of different kinds of expansion plans.  They operate in cities that already have rapid transit trunk lines, ours does not.

 

See previous statement: ignore posts that get you upset, close the forum or, in your case, take your meds regularly.  But thanks for the krazy rant anyway.

 

The Cincinnati streetcar building sure has a lot of property, income and ''other taxes'' involved to get it up and running.  Given that it is so unique, like I stated, Cinci may become the poster child of a successful system.  All eyes are on Cinci's streetcar.  Don't be too cocky yet as only time will tell.

 

Enough with the medication jokes - mental illness is not a punchline and this is a transportation forum.  Find another way to disagree with folks.

Spare me. Almost 28,000 posts in this thread.  We've covered this ground. Maybe some Cincinnatians just abhor rehashing the same old tired cliche'.

 

 

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If you read upstream, Jmeckl-whatever made the comment about me and I don't recall any response from you about mental illness.  Agree thoug, mental illness is not funny.

Then either ignore the ignorant out of town people inquiring about the nature and set-up, especially the financing issue, or simply close the thread.  Building, operating and financing the streetcar the way Cincinnati has it set-up sounds pretty interesting to me.  Despite the numerous post and rehashing clichés and given the controversy about new rail systems in cities other than what are considered 'transit legacy' cities, which Cincinnati is not one of, you should expect questions and criticism.  It's called an open forum.

 

 

This thread is almost 10 years old and some people who post here have been involved in the issue or related issues for over 20 years.  Don't show up out of nowhere with an attitude that insinuates that people here haven't thought about this, that, or whatever.  No new criticism of streetcars, rail transit, or Amtrak has appeared in decades.  Opponents raise the same 5 or 6 issues over and over again, usually with the insinuation that rail proponents haven't thought of something.  A new variation is to bring up something with one of the newer streetcar systems.  Except there is no real, direct parallel with any of the other new streetcar systems to what is happening in Cincinnati right now because Cincinnati's built environment and the purpose of this streetcar line are markedly different than anywhere else.  So don't bring up Washington, Atlanta, or wherever.  It's not the same. 

 

Cincinnati has several parkways that were built between about 1915 and 1940.  They are completely different from one another.  They were built by different government entities (city park board, rapid transit commission, WPA, etc.) , they look different, they serve different purposes.  Yet they are all called "parkways".  Washington now has a "streetcar", Atlanta has a "streetcar", etc., but they have nothing in common with ours.  They funded differently, they run in different kinds of neighborhoods, they run different rolling stock, they are part of different kinds of expansion plans.  They operate in cities that already have rapid transit trunk lines, ours does not.

 

See previous statement: ignore posts that get you upset, close the forum or, in your case, take your meds regularly.  But thanks for the krazy rant anyway.

 

The Cincinnati streetcar building sure has a lot of property, income and ''other taxes'' involved to get it up and running.  Given that it is so unique, like I stated, Cinci may become the poster child of a successful system.  All eyes are on Cinci's streetcar.  Don't be too cocky yet as only time will tell.

 

Enough with the medication jokes - mental illness is not a punchline and this is a transportation forum.  Find another way to disagree with folks.

 

If you read upstream a bit, this JMeckl-whatever started the medication comments and I don't recall you stepping in to check him.  Mental illness is not funny as this is a transportion forum.  I was asking about the streetcar and was called out by this JMeckl-whatever for having not taken my meds because she didn't the questions etc.  Please inform her to find another way to disagreed with folks.  To borrow a line from jmecl-whatever ''please read before typing erratically''. 

 

Insults aside, I actually gained some great information on the streetcar, but, trust me, I'm outta this thread.

^ I think you got the reaction you were looking for, to be honest.  :roll:  :wave:

<Searches for the ignore button. I guess even with the streetcar finished and almost open for biz we still have to put up with the earthy stench that comes from living this close to the "coast".  As if we can't hear the dog whistle arguments by now. :rollseyes

 

I was just thinking...who's in charge of the launch party?

 

 

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The launch party will be irrelevant it we open to passengers on September 15 and then close down for Oktoberfest on September 16.

The launch party will be irrelevant it we open to passengers on September 15 and then close down for Oktoberfest on September 16.

 

As much as I hate the whole festivals/Oktoberfest issue, I think it's best to wait until after. The crowd at Oktoberfest isn't going to be the one we want to introduce the streetcar to anyways. Although it'd be great to connect the festival with the city, not many will be familiar with how it works nor will most be able to stumble aboard and figure it out.

 

Throw a party the weekend after when there's other cool stuff going on instead of a big festival that trashes the streets.

The launch party will be irrelevant it we open to passengers on September 15 and then close down for Oktoberfest on September 16.

 

Target start date of Sept. 1st now (but point taken) http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/11/heres-when-the-streetcar-could-open-how-the-budget.html

I'm guessing September 8th or 9th

The launch party will be irrelevant it we open to passengers on September 15 and then close down for Oktoberfest on September 16.

 

I'm just upset that the unlimited ride card for the first 15 days will be useless for 2 or 3 of those days. I always go to Oktoberfest early on Saturday or Sunday and would have almost certainly taken the streetcar there.

My understanding is that no final decisions have been made relative to the shutting down of the streetcar during any specific event yet?

The ordinance that passed gives the event organizers the power to ask the streetcar to stop operations during the event. However; if the event organizers and Metro work something out then they may not request service be shut down.

Request must be made 90 days in advance. We'll know by late June if they want to halt service for Oktoberfest.

Didn't they figure that it would only take 2% of workers, 2% of residents, and 2% of visitors taking round trips to meet the daily expectations at launch? That doesn't exactly seem like a hard task.

 

With round trips, you would only need 1.5% of those three groups. (assuming 65k workers here 250 days a year, 14,452 residents here 345 days a year and 13,545,004 annual visitors)

Am I crazy in thinking that is a tiny percentage that will likely be blown away? What types of percentages are other cities getting? Is that information quickly available anywhere?

Awesome video of a streetcar going up the Mt. Adams incline:

^Cool video! Did they always "balance" the incline so that one train would be going up while one was going down? It would save energy since gravity pulling one car down would help push the other car up. But it seems like it would be tricky to coordinate logistically to always have cars move up/down at the same time.

^ Yes that's the basic mode of operation.  The two cars were permanently attached to each other via the cables, like the counterweight in an elevator.  There wouldn't be enough power to pull one car by itself.  A deadly wreck on the Mt. Auburn Incline happened when one car reached the top and the cable pulled out, so that car rolled down the entire length of the incline almost at a free-fall. 

^Whoa. That would be absolutely terrifying to see one of those platforms freefall down the incline.

^Whoa. That would be absolutely terrifying to see one of those platforms freefall down the incline.

 

Can you imagine the length of the platform and the downward forces if we were to build one of these things for the Cincinnati Streetcar to climb the face of Mt. Auburn as some have suggested?

found this- https://greenlakebluecity.com/2016/05/02/northern-kentucky-river-route-streetcar-study/

found this- https://greenlakebluecity.com/2016/05/02/northern-kentucky-river-route-streetcar-study/

 

Newport is fine but I really don't see the sense in doing streetcars in Covington without creating a direct connection with DT Cincinnati.  A new bridge for TANK and light rail/streetcars needs to happen at Madison/Race or Madison/Elm. 

found this- https://greenlakebluecity.com/2016/05/02/northern-kentucky-river-route-streetcar-study/

 

That's Nick Ian Emenhiser's (Twitter) work.

I don't necessarily think it would be an issue having to go through Newport to get to Covington as much as it would be an issue to have such a massive loop. The inability to really get back to where you started without going around a huge loop is something that could be a huge issue. Let's say you get off at the first stop in Covington. If you want to get back over the river you have to then get back on at that exact same stop, travel around nearly the entire NKY loop, and THEN go back over the river. You'd be better off walking at that point in many situations. Which would be a problem. I did the same type of loop in my scheme I posted upthread then immediately realized the problems it would bring with it.

Ideally we'd have a loop connecting Cincinnati, Covington, and Newport that goes in BOTH directions to avoid that problem.

 

 

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Two things. I agree that a direct connection on its own transit-and-ped-only bridge would be the best way to close the loop, and the Brent Spence Bridge project could be a good funding mechanism for that, depending on what happens there. Also, existing residential density and transit-based commuting trips are currently heaviest farther south. It's also the best ROW for transit, which will probably be a challenge anywhere else.

 

found this- https://greenlakebluecity.com/2016/05/02/northern-kentucky-river-route-streetcar-study/

 

That's Nick Ian Emenhiser's (Twitter) work.

 

Wow that guy must be a real moron..  :-o  :shoot:

I don't necessarily think it would be an issue having to go through Newport to get to Covington as much as it would be an issue to have such a massive loop. The inability to really get back to where you started without going around a huge loop is something that could be a huge issue. Let's say you get off at the first stop in Covington. If you want to get back over the river you have to then get back on at that exact same stop, travel around nearly the entire NKY loop, and THEN go back over the river. You'd be better off walking at that point in many situations. Which would be a problem. I did the same type of loop in my scheme I posted upthread then immediately realized the problems it would bring with it.

 

Dual-track..

 

 

edit: I've also always wondered if there was a way streetcar systems could just implement "passing tracks" every half-mile or so, although one thing I've learned about train crashes is that if there is a way, it will happen...

Also, with frequent trips like streetcars have, that don't operate on a set schedule (as in set times, they just have an average wait time), you can't plan for passing, and those would slow down your trip.

 

And in order to pass, you would need streetcars to share a lane on a presumably 2-way street. Which would really confuse drivers.

Also, with frequent trips like streetcars have, that don't operate on a set schedule (as in set times, they just have an average wait time), you can't plan for passing, and those would slow down your trip.

 

And in order to pass, you would need streetcars to share a lane on a presumably 2-way street. Which would really confuse drivers.

 

Point taken, although a single track could make a center island much more nimble, although you'd need platforms on both sides.

The Portland streetcar system was originally built with a single-track section, but as the system grew in popularity and was expanded, it was causing a bottleneck, so it was recently replaced with a standard two-track layout. Doesn't seem worth the initial savings if you're going to have to put in the second track and overhead wire eventually anyway.

The Portland streetcar system was originally built with a single-track section, but as the system grew in popularity and was expanded, it was causing a bottleneck, so it was recently replaced with a standard two-track layout. Doesn't seem worth the initial savings if you're going to have to put in the second track and overhead wire eventually anyway.

 

There were actually two single-track sections at one point.  There was a 1-block single track section in the first phase of construction, then a second stretch, measuring about 1,000 feet, that was built as traditional railroad track on ties that led to the South Waterfront.  Both of these sections were replaced with 2-track running when the green line light rail and new transit bridge were built. 

 

Lots of good discussion at this morning's Cincinnati Business Courier Power Breakfast. Follow Chris Wetterich on Twitter for the minute-by-minute updates. Basically, Dan McCarthy of Carter (developer of The Banks) was talking very positively about the streetcar. Tenants are saying that the streetcar "brings Findlay Market to my front door." McCarthy also said "don't kid yourself" that Phase 1 will be the only phase, insisting that it needs to go up the hill to UC. Another great comment he made was, "the days of showing people a cornfield and saying, 'this is the future of your business' are over." In other words -- sprawl is out, urban development is in.

Two things. I agree that a direct connection on its own transit-and-ped-only bridge would be the best way to close the loop, and the Brent Spence Bridge project could be a good funding mechanism for that, depending on what happens there. Also, existing residential density and transit-based commuting trips are currently heaviest farther south. It's also the best ROW for transit, which will probably be a challenge anywhere else.

 

found this- https://greenlakebluecity.com/2016/05/02/northern-kentucky-river-route-streetcar-study/

 

That's Nick Ian Emenhiser's (Twitter) work.

 

Wow that guy must be a real moron..  :-o  :shoot:

 

LOL. I didn't make the connection. Whoops!