^Well played. I'm wondering why this person ins't arrested for trespassing. Heavy-handed, I know but why should the story be about it being left unattended when the actual "crime" is that she entered a streetcar clearly marked with signs prohibiting it.

Random side note -- CAF designed a new "American style" end for our Urbos 3 trams. I think it would've been awesome to see the European style ones rolling around in OTR.

 

Compare ours:

 

 

With this:

 

Kansas City streetcars carried more than 57,000 riders in first full week

 

The only major difference between KC's system and ours is that KC's is free. Will our opening week have as many riders? I think so.

 

I still think there is a huge opportunity for a sponsor to step up and fund free rides for the first week the system is open.

I like the ones we got better, Travis, for whatever reason. 

Also has anyone put together a list of developments along the streetcar line in one source… here is a example of KC's

 

http://projects.kansascity.com/2014/downtown/

 

 

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I was in Kansas City for a week and spent the weekend around downtown. I rode the streetcar 3 times. All were because it was the easiest way to get from A to B (I would have gone out of my way to ride it if I had to, but it didn't come to that).

 

I rode for the first time at 3:00 on Friday and it was packed. Standing room only (well before most people got off work).

 

I rode again on Saturday around 2:00 and again at 4:00 and it was busy. On Saturday there was a Comicon at the Convention Center (along the streetcar route) so there were quite a few people in costume, but the majority seemed to be just using it to run errands or go about their day.

 

The streetcar operator was pretty fun and when a Superman got on the streetcar she made an announcement and asked if everyone was having fun. She repeated the question when she didn't get enough response and everyone cheered. Hopefully the Cincinnati streetcar operators have a sense of humor and interact with guests during special events like that. It made you feel really welcome and gave me a great impression of the city. Streetcar operators might like the riders more because they don't have to deal with payments or passengers. It's not their problem, so they can just enjoy driving people around.

 

Everyone riding was commenting how clean, and cool, and fun it was. I didn't hear one bad thing about it while I was in KC except a few people talk about how much of a headache it was to get started because of the opposition. The only downside I saw to their route was that throughout a lot of it, it traveled in both directions with only one lane of travel, so when the streetcar stopped, all traffic stopped behind it. There was a bit of a backup on Friday because of this, but nothing terrible. I'm sure the drivers weren't happy about it (maybe next time they'll get on it or take a different route). The southern half of the streetcar goes through a rather undeveloped portion with a lot of surface parking lots, auto repair shops, and dilapidated buildings. Already there are signs of progress with construction going up on the edge closer to downtown. The neighborhood seems to be a relatively trendy area of town with a few breweries popping up in the last year or two and some new restaurants/bars further south along the line. Overall, I think Kansas City residents are going to really love the streetcar and demand more.

ryanlammi[/member] - were they still offering free rides in KC when you were there? Or had they started charging the standard fare?

The KC streetcar will be free for the long term, I believe. If it's not, whoops.

 

EDIT: Buses were not free, but it was only $3 for an all-day pass, so I ended up purchasing 2 days of all day passes while I was there (it included the airport route).

I sure wish Greater Cincinnati could develop a bi-state agreement to support transportation across state lines, similar to KCATA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Area_Transportation_Authority

 

 

KC Streetcar is officially free for "one year". Busses were free on the opening weekend.

I sure wish Greater Cincinnati could develop a bi-state agreement to support transportation across state lines, similar to KCATA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Area_Transportation_Authority

 

 

 

    ^ We do have this. In 2001, and Inter-Local Agreement was signed between TANK and SORTA allowing them to jointly operate a light rail line from the CBD to CVG. It probably still exists or could easily be resurrected.

^We should resurrect it NOW, even without a lightrail line to CVG. SORTA and TANK could work so much better if they worked together as a consolidated system. Just have to figure out the politics and financing, which are no easy manner when Greater Cincinnati covers so many municipalities.

With the burn-in testing almost complete, what steps are next between now and September 12? I wish we could just start service asap!!

Agree, as I understand it's mostly just getting the required non revenue hours in on each of the units, right?  Is there another unit just new or to-be-delivered soon?  Are there more operators that need to be hired and trained?

All 5 units have completed their required testing as of today, so now it's all about getting the operators and other staff fully trained, and doing a few weeks of "simulated service" to work out any kinks. This was supposed to begin in August last time I heard.

^So we're ahead of schedule. Great! I have this idea in my head that it would be great PR for the TBX-OTR to open a few weeks early to really make the time/budget naysayers look like fools.

As much as we would like the system to open way early, imagine the budget battle that will need to be fought. SORTA would basically say, "We are ready to open early, as long as you can give us the money to cover the extra 1 month of operating expenses." The mayor and anti-streetcar council members will throw a fit and say, "the streetcar is over budget and needs even more taxpayer funds!" And for the entire first year, they will talk about how the operating expenses came in higher than the original estimates -- duh, because you added an extra 1 month of service.

 

The best thing that could happen is that a sponsor steps up and offers free rides for the first two weeks or 1 month. Then you could open the streetcar early, have it be free at first, and then have "normal" operation starting on Sept. 15, with the city's funding kicking in at that point.

The best thing that could happen is that a sponsor steps up and offers free rides for the first two weeks or 1 month. Then you could open the streetcar early, have it be free at first, and then have "normal" operation starting on Sept. 15, with the city's funding kicking in at that point.

 

Certainly seems the optimal route (pun intended) assuming SORTA/TransDev can get everybody trained by August 15 or so, which would seem like no issue with 2 months lead time. Hopefully someone over there (Grether?) is thinking along these lines and pushing for the title sponsor to offer a free month.

I can't believe KC got their streetcar approved to run for free for a year, imagine the outcry that suggestion would get here.  Also really disappointed one or multiple of the big companies hasn't stepped up and signed sponsorship deals yet. 

Good ole boy network is all sour grapes. Don't hold your breath.

 

 

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^So we're ahead of schedule. Great! I have this idea in my head that it would be great PR for the TBX-OTR to open a few weeks early to really make the time/budget naysayers look like fools.

 

God bless you for brainstorming alternate names but I'm not sure if TBX-OTR is the one  :-P.

Just announced: The grand opening of the streetcar will be Friday, September 9, 2016!

Just announced: The grand opening of the streetcar will be Friday, September 9, 2016!

 

How does this jive with Octoberfest? It is the 9th to 11th of September this year, did they to the smart thing and decide to work with the streetcar?

 

Just announced: The grand opening of the streetcar will be Friday, September 9, 2016!

 

How does this jive with Octoberfest? It is the 9th to 11th of September this year, did they to the smart thing and decide to work with the streetcar?

 

Oktoberfest is 16th to 18th. So open for a week then shutdown the very next weekend.

Just announced: The grand opening of the streetcar will be Friday, September 9, 2016!

 

A mere 3,640 days since the first post in this thread. Perseverance!

Just announced: The grand opening of the streetcar will be Friday, September 9, 2016!

 

How does this jive with Octoberfest? It is the 9th to 11th of September this year, did they to the smart thing and decide to work with the streetcar?

 

 

Doh, i looked it up and got the Mainstrasse date. Thanks!

 

Oktoberfest is 16th to 18th. So open for a week then shutdown the very next weekend.

I wouldn't assume the streetcar won't be open for Oktoberfest

^So we're ahead of schedule. Great! I have this idea in my head that it would be great PR for the TBX-OTR to open a few weeks early to really make the time/budget naysayers look like fools.

 

God bless you for brainstorming alternate names but I'm not sure if TBX-OTR is the one  :-P.

 

Thanks for the good words. I'm trying and that is officially THE name until a better one evolves. TBX when you leave Findlay and head south. OTR when you leave GABP and head north.

 

Maybe we do a MTA naming convention and gove it a number or letter with "The Banks to OTR" underneath.

 

Rabbit Hash[/member] - we don't need an abbreviation for "The Banks". "The Banks" is only 2 syllables, which is shorter than your "TBX" which is way harder to pronounce and remember. "The Banks" is short enough (only 9 total characters) to be written out entirely on the streetcar digital signs.

 

If/when we have additional lines for the Streetcar, we can worry about naming each line. But for now, "The Streetcar" is what people are going to call it because it's the least ambiguous way of talking about it. 

I'm hoping that they change the displays to read "TO THE BANKS" while heading south from the MOF to The Banks, then switch to "TO OTR" on the northbound part of the journey.

Can the sign show mixed case or does it have to do ALL CAPS? There are lots of studies out there showing that ALL CAPS text is harder to read. Also, it just looks less sophisticated than mixed case.

I wouldn't assume the streetcar won't be open for Oktoberfest

 

I'll bite. Why wouldn't you assume that? All council meeting discussion seemed to suggest that would be happening. Is there good news brewing?

I wouldn't assume the streetcar won't be open for Oktoberfest

 

I'll bite. Why wouldn't you assume that? All council meeting discussion seemed to suggest that would be happening. Is there good news brewing?

 

City Council gave the Chamber the authority to request and be granted a streetcar closure during their event. The Chamber has not yet made that request.

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

He is effectively putting more debt on the streetcar to finance these projects.

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

Eric Avner of the Haile Foundation pointed this out on Facebook and was attacked by Cranley for even suggesting that some of the saved money go towards anything streetcar-related.

^Shocking.  :roll:

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

Eric Avner of the Haile Foundation pointed this out on Facebook and was attacked by Cranley for even suggesting that some of the saved money go towards anything streetcar-related.

 

Source?

Rabbit Hash[/member] - we don't need an abbreviation for "The Banks". "The Banks" is only 2 syllables, which is shorter than your "TBX" which is way harder to pronounce and remember. "The Banks" is short enough (only 9 total characters) to be written out entirely on the streetcar digital signs.

 

If/when we have additional lines for the Streetcar, we can worry about naming each line. But for now, "The Streetcar" is what people are going to call it because it's the least ambiguous way of talking about it. 

 

You're putting way too much...uhm, engineering thought into this. It's not about brevity or syllables or characters. It's about creating a name or an identity.

 

TBX wouldn't be said "TEE BEE EKS" anymore than someone says "OH BEE EKS" when they see OBX because it doesn't roll off the tongue. One would still say "The Banks" in the same way one knows what OTR means. People have naturally started to say "OH TEE ARR" or fully "Over the Rhine" but visually the letters OTR have become a de facto identity. Or take CVG for example. "SEE VEE GEE" is preferable over "The Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport" and so CVG it is in the local lexicon.

 

But my point wasn't to argue letters, syllables, or for any name in particular. I just think UO is the source for a name with more affinity and flair than "The Streetcar".

 

 

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

Eric Avner of the Haile Foundation pointed this out on Facebook and was attacked by Cranley for even suggesting that some of the saved money go towards anything streetcar-related.

 

Source?

 

This Facebook thread is public, I think.

Page not found... appears to have been deleted.

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

He is effectively putting more debt on the streetcar to finance these projects.

 

I thought $25m was coming from the Blue Ash airport sale. Has this been officially announced. I know WCPO had the scoop but that's all I can find reporting it. 

 

For those of us who's been around awhile this has a very similar (bad) vibe of the monies receive from the Anthem stock sale. Canley led the way for investments in neighborhoods with very little to show for it. I think that was nearly $85m

On 5/25/2016 at 12:44 PM, Cygnus said:

Page not found... appears to have been deleted.

 

The news of all these development projects the Mayor is proposing got me thinking:

 

$25M of the $35M that will be used on these projects is from refinancing streetcar bonds. Seems prudent to take some of that money to study the uptown route, especially since it was once already allocated to the streetcar project and is not general fund dollars.

 

Pie in the sky, sure. But clearly the money is there for it.

 

He is effectively putting more debt on the streetcar to finance these projects.

 

I thought $25m was coming from the Blue Ash airport sale. Has this been officially announced. I know WCPO had the scoop but that's all I can find reporting it. 

 

For those of us who's been around awhile this has a very similar (bad) vibe of the monies receive from the Anthem stock sale. Canley led the way for investments in neighborhoods with very little to show for it. I think that was nearly $85m

 

The Anthem money was a little over $50 million.  About $20 million was split between about 50 community organizations (neighborhood festivals, etc.), and Cranley told them they were getting the money before council was even aware that the Anthem thing was happening.  So what that meant was that any councilmen who objected to the plan would be "taking away" money from those groups and inevitably angering part of their constituency.  It was a clever move by Cranley, since it forced the hand of any councilman who wasn't retiring from politics. 

 

Where did the rest go?  One $10 million chunk went to development of that big, mediocre housing development in Bond Hill near the Cincinnati Gardens.  No doubt Steve Reece was involved in that, and that's how Cranley started literally buying the black vote in anticipation of his eventual mayoral run. 

 

Then there was the whole incident where one of the pension trustees filed a lawsuit and he had his office ransacked.  Various internet postings detailing the incident appear to have been scrubbed since I last looked for them in 2013. 

 

The Anthem Demutualization caused problems all over the country, since many pension funds were invested in the company.  Over and over again, city workers sued to get some of the proceeds, and over and over again they lost their cases.  http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/fyi/public/fyi_docs/Blob/2063.pdf;jsessionid=D91FF4179F5AB1F3751D4BE102358A89?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%271668%27

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/reds-tickets-should-double-as-streetcar-passes/

Thoughts?

 

https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/reds-tickets-should-double-as-streetcar-passes/

 

I don't think the Reds would want to add a surcharge to tickets to cover the cost of the people who ride the streetcar unless there was something in it for them. If the Reds average say 22k fans a game, assume maybe 10% would ride the streetcar on any given day, where does the ridership revenue come from (surcharge, or kick back to Reds, etc?) 

 

I cant see the city just eating the cost of free rides to Reds fans given the current operating environment, and given the politics involved, I don't think a lot of Reds fans (say those in KY and from the burbs) would want to pay a surcharge for the streetcar.

 

Maybe tie it to bars in OTR. Give free rides on streetcar to Reds fans and the bars/businesses in OTR could cover the costs. They would be the ones who would benefit the most and need the ridership as it would be a far walk to go from Taft Ale House to the game. I don't think the places on Fountain Sq would want to join in such a thing because people walk there right now with little problem and I would not see that changing much with the Streetcar (I would never take the streetcar from GABP to Rock Bottom or Palomino, I prefer to walk, but I would take it to OTR in that case)

 

That is just my initial thought.

You wouldn't need a per ticket surcharge. Total reds attendance is 2.47 million, if you figured 5% rode the streetcar before or after as part of this program that would be 123k people. If the Reds paid Metro $1 each that's only $123k, which sounds like a lot but really isn't compared to some of other promotions they do such as bobblehead nights, fireworks and the caravan during the winter, with the difference being the streetcar benefit lasts all season long. Then, if the "take rate" ends up being higher like the 10% you mention it wouldn't matter to Metro, who is already running the cars at a certain level of service anyway.

Do the Reds (and the Bengals for that matter) get any of the parking revenue from the parking at The Banks on game days? If so, they might be reluctant to support anything that redistributes parking revenue around the CBD/OTR.

You wouldn't need a per ticket surcharge. Total reds attendance is 2.47 million, if you figured 5% rode the streetcar before or after as part of this program that would be 123k people. If the Reds paid Metro $1 each that's only $123k, which sounds like a lot but really isn't compared to some of other promotions they do such as bobblehead nights, fireworks and the caravan during the winter, with the difference being the streetcar benefit lasts all season long. Then, if the "take rate" ends up being higher like the 10% you mention it wouldn't matter to Metro, who is already running the cars at a certain level of service anyway.

 

I think the best way to handle such a deal would be that the Reds sponsor the streetcar and in exchange, Reds tickets are valid as streetcar tickets for the day of the game. So it really wouldn't be like a per-ticket surcharge.

 

However I don't know that the Reds are really supportive of the streetcar yet. Last I heard, they were upset that a streetcar-only lane got installed on Second Street. (zOMG war on cars!!!1)

^You could offer the same thing to company employees.  Say for example that P&G sponsors the streetcar at a specified level.  You could then just wave a magic wand and declare that a P&G badge is considered valid payment on the streetcar Monday through Friday.  That would be a nice amenity for employees of companies with office buildings near the streetcar line.