May 20, 200817 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 200817 yr What I want to know is, will there be a thousand pages of "Cincinnati streetcars and light rail" postings before the first streetcar rolls? And the other thing I want to know is, whatever happened to Cheryl Crowell?
May 20, 200817 yr She's still poking around. She made it out to the Blue Chip Republicans discussion to claim the silly same thing about how "Portland has 2x the operational costs for the same length line." She'll be back around again ;)
May 21, 200817 yr What I want to know is, will there be a thousand pages of "Cincinnati streetcars and light rail" postings before the first streetcar rolls? And the other thing I want to know is, whatever happened to Cheryl Crowell? Sshh! Don't say her name out loud three times!
May 21, 200817 yr Someone has their undies in a bind. Take a joke. The above post has been modified since I made this post, so this has been nulled.
May 21, 200817 yr Author Oil is up $103 since the light rail vote. When it hits 130.30 it will be up 500% since the light rail vote
May 21, 200817 yr ^ In light of that, is there any chance of a new light rail plan being unveiled in the near future? It might actually get the votes now.
May 21, 200817 yr Author Southwest Ohio could win $80M for capital projects Business Courier of Cincinnati by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter Southwest Ohio would receive more than $80 million in new state capital funding under a spending plan submitted to the Ohio House of Representatives Monday. But Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system and three projects for which Hamilton County was requesting $6 million received no funding. "We're particularly disappointed about our request for stadium funding," said Assistant Hamilton County Administrator Eric Stuckey. "We were promised $81 million in total funding and $7.65 million of that has not been received. We were requesting $2 million this time." Hamilton County also requested $2 million each for an adult corrections treatment facility and a juvenile detention facility. Stuckey said the county will try to get state lawmakers to amend the capital spending bill as it makes its way through the House and Senate over the next few weeks. House Bill 562, introduced in the House finance committee Monday, was eagerly awaited by backers of local projects who participated in a series of public hearings aimed at forging a regional consensus for capital priorities. Cincinnati's streetcar initiative fared well in that process, with local business leaders and elected officials recommending a $3 million funding commitment for the project's $102 million first phase. But GOP lawmakers from Hamilton County objected to streetcar funding. Ultimately, it was left out of the capital budget bill. Still, local cultural facilities, colleges and park projects fared well in the capital bill, with the University of Cincinnati receiving more than $40 million for the renovation of its medical science building and other projects. Miami University received a $21.4 million allotment, just under half of it for the renovation of Laws Hall and the north wing of Upham Hall. Cincinnati State Technical and Community College was allotted about $2.3 million for campus renovations. Cincinnati Museum Center and Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden each secured $2.7 million and the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center got $850,000. The zoo received $1.5 million for its $7 million "Cat Canyon" project, which involves an update of its display area for lions, cheetahs and leopards, as well improvements to its small-cat breeding program. The zoo also received a $1.2 million allotment from the state's "parks and recreation improvement fund." Cincinnati Museum Center received $2.5 million toward the Union Terminal Restoration Project, which is estimated to cost $120 million. It also received $150,000 for the Eulett Center, a meeting and educational facility it owns and operates in Adams County. Cincinnati's Central Riverfront Park received a $2 million allotment in parks funding, while a $17 million plan to build a bike trail addition along the Little Miami River was earmarked for $1 million - half of what its supporters were requesting. Other groups/projects named in the capital budget include: Cincinnati Art Museum, $1.5 million; Music Hall parking facility, $1.1 million; Covedale Theater, $100,000; Women's Cultural Arts Center in Mariemont, $220,000; Clifton Cultural Arts Center, $250,000; Sharonville Convention Center, $1 million; Health Care Connection in Lincoln Heights, $150,000; Homeland Security Facility in Forest Park, $50,000; Hebrew Union College Archives, $185,000; Colerain Township Park, $500,000; Legacy Park, Green Township, $500,000; Beckett Park, West Chester, $250,000; Blue Ash Conference Center, $150,000. Hamilton County projects received about $59.6 million in total, according to figures from Gov. Ted Strickland's office.
May 21, 200817 yr http://www.buycincy.com/2008/05/get-it-streetcar-bumper-sticke.html#more SWEET! I'll be dropping Park+Vine some more stickers today at lunch... I've been running like a madman so I haven't had the time, but I really gotta get em there.
May 21, 200817 yr This is where some real visible leadership from our state reps (who don't have the heads way up in their *sses) would be nice.
May 21, 200817 yr aaaand i officially hate republicans. ha My professor says a conservative is a liberal who has been robbed.
May 21, 200817 yr ^What? Regarding the streetcar, where does this leave the City? If the project just needs 3 million from the State at the moment, and 10 million overall, is there a way they can finance it without the State contribution? It seems like its doable.
May 21, 200817 yr Yes, there likely is a way to finance it independently, BUT a) this is just the house version of the financing requests b) there are other ways to get financing money in through the state budget (riders on other bills) c) it was just a first attempt at getting the total state funds that are part of the projected budget (with a 3 mil request, there would be many more requests to the state for funding) In short, its a setback due to people who *cough* resist any money for the city if it isn't doled out 10x to the burbs, but its just a setback, not a showstopper. Like I've said many times before, there are many more hurdles to come, so don't lose steam yet folks!
May 21, 200817 yr I would really like to see the city do this themselves and give a BIG you're number #1 to the state and county.
May 21, 200817 yr aaaand i officially hate republicans. ha My professor says a conservative is a liberal who has been robbed. A professor with an opinion on conservatives? :-o
May 21, 200817 yr I would really like to see the city do this themselves and give a BIG you're number #1 to the state and county. I agree. Plus, it would stick it to all those naysayers that constantly complain about Cincinnati not being able to accomplish a project - and without outside strings attached.
May 21, 200817 yr Author 1st edition Streetcar T-shirts available at Park + Vine. Men's and Women's cuts. Printed on Alternative Apparel Shirts (the shirts sell blank for $35) for an MSRP of $24.
May 21, 200817 yr I would really like to see the city do this themselves and give a BIG you're number #1 to the state and county. Unfortunately this would be falling into the same Cincinnati problems of old. The City (as hard and as painful as it might be) needs to reach out and embrace its regional counterparts. In order to truly grow and prosper we have to realize that we are one region...and we have to realize that the success of the whole is much greater than its parts.
May 22, 200817 yr That's the Ticket Columbus takes different approach in funding its downtown streetcar project BY KEVIN OSBORNE | CITY BEAT May 14, 2008 Like Cincinnati, Columbus is considering a proposal to build an electric-powered streetcar system through part of its downtown, the first segment in what's envisioned as a more comprehensive system that eventually would help move people around its entire urban core. And just as in Cincinnati, Columbus officials likely will vote by year's end on whether to move forward with the project and actually begin construction.
May 22, 200817 yr I would really like to see the city do this themselves and give a BIG you're number #1 to the state and county. Unfortunately this would be falling into the same Cincinnati problems of old. The City (as hard and as painful as it might be) needs to reach out and embrace its regional counterparts. In order to truly grow and prosper we have to realize that we are one region...and we have to realize that the success of the whole is much greater than its parts. Agreed, but it strikes me that the region needs leadership by example as well as through consultation. And it seems to me that only the City of Cincinnati can provide the kind of leadership through example that would generate real action in the region. Hamilton County stood up for a short period between 1999 and 2003 (perhaps even as long as 1996-2007), with the success of the stadium tax deal, the creation of the Banks project, and the attempt at the MetroMoves plan. But the defeat of the MetroMoves plan in November of 2002 was the first in a series of county initiatives that began to fail. Heimlich's pathetic thrashings-about regarding the Banks project and the jail tax spelled the end of the local Republican Party's attempts to be constructive. Pepper's presence on the County Commission might have lead to keeping the county executive as the political engine of the region, and during this time the Banks project was at last finalized, but the failure of Pepper's jail tax, which lost due to a coalition between the enemies of constructive local government as well as some of Pepper's natural allies, largely ended the effectiveness of the County as the locus of regional initiatives and planning. There's not going to be any local rail in the Cincinnati region outside of the City. If others in the area don't want to get on board, that shouldn't stop us. And as others have said, while it might be a little more difficult to get the project off the ground with the City going at it alone, it also gives the City greater control. A successful streetcar has the potential of inducing other governments in the region to get on board regional rail as well. Activist City planning doesn't necessarily mean that that planning can't be made in a regionalist context. If only LK could have represented us on this. Thanks Dave.
May 22, 200817 yr Author I anyone wants to volunteer at Findlay Market selling streetcar shirts and bumper stickers this Saturday send me a PM
May 23, 200817 yr There's not going to be any local rail in the Cincinnati region outside of the City. If others in the area don't want to get on board, that shouldn't stop us. And as others have said, while it might be a little more difficult to get the project off the ground with the City going at it alone, it also gives the City greater control. A successful streetcar has the potential of inducing other governments in the region to get on board regional rail as well. Activist City planning doesn't necessarily mean that that planning can't be made in a regionalist context. I agree, when streetcars become successful other local governments will want in on the action too. I can already see nky wanting a piece of the streetcar action. Seeing how west chester is always seeking an urban feel it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go after streetcars also :lol: Just another example of Cincinnati being emulated...
May 23, 200817 yr ^ I think Newport and Covington will jump at this when they are officially approached (which I assume will be sometime after the opening of phase I).
May 23, 200817 yr "Naacp: delete old warrants, say no to streetcars Posted by jessicabrown at 5/23/2008 12:57 AM EDT on Cincinnati.com It was a busy meeting Thursday night for the Cincinnati NAACP. Under President Christopher Smitherman, the membership voted on multiple items, had a guest speaker explain the history of public school funding and announced (though Smitherman noted he has not recieved official confirmation) that Barack Obama will be at the national convention downtown in July. Here's what happened The membership voted to not support Cincinnati's proposed streetcar plan or its funding. City Council has approved the streetcar idea, but hasn't shored up all the funding yet. City Councilman Chris Bortz fielded questions from the audience. He said the first phase (downtown and Over-the-Rhine) would cost $102 million and the second phase (uptown to Clifton and UC hospital area) would cost $80 million. He said the money would come from Tax Increment Financing and corporations. One woman asked if any of it comes from the money that would otherwise be used to fund city services like clinics --"things that people desparately need,"-- which are closing left and right, she said. Bortz said no. This money is from a fund designated for construction, not operations. He said the streetcars will bring in needed revenue for the city. Smitherman, too, had concerns. "My concern is some of the funding for the trolley will take away funding from our neighborhoods. Is this something we want now, given the lack of capital investment in our neighborhoods?" He also worried that the TIF money was coming from a pot that was designated for The Banks riverfront development, a project the chapter supports. Bortz said the TIF money is coming from downtown and won't affect funding for The Banks, though it might eventually affect the funding for the riverfront park." I don't understand why they would be against this project. God forbid we try to encourage development and raise the standard of living for the city's poorest neighborhood. Chris Bortz seemed to answer all their questions with answers that I would assume would seem positive to the NAACP. SHouldn't this be the kind of investment in the neighborhood, which he referred to, that they would approve of?
May 23, 200817 yr I would imagine the COAST/NAACP alliance has something to do with this Indeed. They are also united - along with the Green Party - against Red Light Cameras, etc. among other things that have been discussed on this forum.
May 23, 200817 yr Over in Columbus some residents from the poorer, heavily black neighborhoods say that the streetcars are racist and are against it. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, let's prevent/hinder any chance of reviving these routes that would promote lots of redevelopment in these neighborhoods. I've also noticed that a segment of poor people, white or black, are most hostile to bikes on the road. Some are just against anything that would make life better for them, it's all about the status quo and for some reason people resist change even when it is clearly for the better. I just don't understand this phenomenon.
May 23, 200817 yr Over in Columbus some residents from the poorer, heavily black neighborhoods say that the streetcars are racist and are against it. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, let's prevent/hinder any chance of reviving these routes that would promote lots of redevelopment in these neighborhoods. I've also noticed that a segment of poor people, white or black, are most hostile to bikes on the road. Some are just against anything that would make life better for them, it's all about the status quo and for some reason people resist change even when it is clearly for the better. I just don't understand this phenomenon. I've noticed these same things in a number of cities I have spent significant time in. The bicycle one I find most peculiar, but does seem to be reality.
May 23, 200817 yr It may be tied into the sense of choice that accompanies class. They see bikes and to a lesser extent streetcars as an example of higher classes exercising choices that they don't perceive as available to them. They 'have' to use the bus, and rich white kids 'choose' to ride a bike or train.
May 23, 200817 yr Author According to metro's commuting calculator, if your commute is 1.6 miles each way it is cheaper to buy a bus pass than drive. ($4 gas, 24 avg mpg) If you are commuting from The king's island park and ride to downtown, it will cost you $800 per month or $9600 per year. Or you could use that $800 a month to afford $135,000 more house. http://go-metro.com/costofdriving.html
May 23, 200817 yr Hi All, Brief update from where I sit: The failure of the State to include the Cincinnati Streetcar in the State Capital Budget is dissappointing, but not a knock out punch. There will be more opportunities for the State to play a role. As the Columbus plan moves further along, there will be more ears willing to listen that may help overwhelm our own delegation. In addition, as The Banks project gets moving and funding issues are resolved we may be more successful in arguing that the Downtown/Riverfront TIF District will not be needed to fully realize The Banks. I was actually more dissappointed that the NAACP voted in opposition. As many posters here know well, the Cincinnati Streetcar is designed to advance the City and its people by making us a more competetive destination for talented professionals thereby increasing the likelihood that local businesses will remain competetive and expand. That business expansion and concentration of talent will likely lead to more business starts and spin-offs (how many businesses were started by P&G people or were attracted here because of P&G?) That means more jobs. More jobs means more opportunity for Cincinnatians. More jobs means more income taxes collected, and that means more resources available to enhance city services and invest in all city neighborhoods. Seems like a great fit for the NAACP. It was mentioned during the meeting that it is really a question of priorities. To that I ask, is there some other capital project that comes anywhere close to producing the kind of long-term, sustainable economic development as a streetcar system? I have not heard one single example of a project that would cost the taxpayers $35M and be so transformative. What could be more important than developing an infrastructure that boosts our competetive advantage to attract and retain JOBS? (Disclaimer: Schools are more important, but that is the responsibility of CPS. Safety is more important, but we are spending millions on very effective policing strategies (about 20 murders this year compared to twice that last year at this time - most other cities our size have seen an increase this year in violent crime and murder) So the real question, is there a more important economic development opportunity? I'm still waiting to hear a better idea.) On the home front, the city is busy developing talking points, economic impact analysis, funding sources and strategies, and the like. The Streetcar forum being hosted by UC and other sponsors will be a great opportunity to find answers to difficult questions. From the invitation: "The Forum will be an opportunity for attendees to explore the benefits as well as the obstacles of creating a streetcar system. The Mayor and City Manager invited representatives from other cities (Charlotte, Little Rock, Portland, and Seattle) to share their strategies in developing a successful streetcar system that have fueled economic development, promoted transportation, and improved quality of life." Those in oppositon have mostly said there are better places to spend the money. Really? On what, exactly? Or they say it will fail, or simply will not produce any economic activity. One guy even told me that Streetcar advocates sound like those who pushed for the stadiums and the Freedom Center. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I realized most of the negativity has more to do with low community self-esteem than anything else. It is time for us to try new things, be bold, take risks. If we fail to do that, then how can we possibly expect anything to change? Cincinnati is a very special place. We just need to make some strategic investments to reach our brilliant potential. It is just within our reach. I really hope we can avoid shooting ourselves in the foot. Again. I guess this was more of a rant than a "brief update." From time to time, I let the frustration get the better of me. I beg your forgiveness. We are in the middle of the single most important debate in fifty years in our city. Can you imagine a more exciting time to live in Cincinnati? And, yes, I am a uncompromising optimist. -Chris Bortz
May 24, 200817 yr If the streetcar fails, I may try to move out of the city b/c I will no longer be able to stand the constant negativity and refusal of change that this city has demonstrated in the past. For whatever reason, I feel that about 95% of Cincinnatians that were born and raised here have no good things to say about this city. It's mind boggling.
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