May 24, 200817 yr ^ Talking about negativity... I look forward to the streetcar but it didn't affect my decision to move here nor will it be a factor in my decision to remain here. Every american city I have been suffers from the negativity factor of locals, no city is immune.
May 24, 200817 yr We are in the middle of the single most important debate in fifty years in our city. Can you imagine a more exciting time to live in Cincinnati? I can't. The spirit of the time, of this city is changing. It is definitely a pivotal time. Council is now leading. Thanks Chris.
May 24, 200817 yr Thanks Chris for all your hard work and dedication to a very important issue for Cincinnati. I'm not sure where this streetcar process would be right now if it weren't for the leadership of people like you, the Mayor, and others. Keep up the good work.
May 24, 200817 yr It may be tied into the sense of choice that accompanies class. They see bikes and to a lesser extent streetcars as an example of higher classes exercising choices that they don't perceive as available to them. They 'have' to use the bus, and rich white kids 'choose' to ride a bike or train. I was actually more dissappointed that the NAACP voted in opposition. As many posters here know well, the Cincinnati Streetcar is designed to advance the City and its people by making us a more competetive destination for talented professionals thereby increasing the likelihood that local businesses will remain competetive and expand. That business expansion and concentration of talent will likely lead to more business starts and spin-offs (how many businesses were started by P&G people or were attracted here because of P&G?) That means more jobs. More jobs means more opportunity for Cincinnatians. More jobs means more income taxes collected, and that means more resources available to enhance city services and invest in all city neighborhoods. Seems like a great fit for the NAACP. I don't quite know what the relationship is between the executive directors of the NAACP (Smitherman, et.al.), the board and their constituents. But I suspect there's a certain amount of push from Smitherman to act in an obstructive manner in general, and he's found this alliance with the COAST group as the perfect means by which to regain "relevance" for the organization. It's a shame that too often relevance is equated with the prominence that comes from opposition, rather than quiet and constructive support. I suspect that being in opposition to politicians that were more successful than himself is personally gratifying to Smitherman as well. The best way to combat naysayers and fence-sitters who lean to opposition on this issue is through word of mouth education. Most people aren't familiar with the budget of a large corporation- a $130 million dollar investment seems enormous, when it is really quite typical. They think that all government money that is spent comes from the same giant pot, another fallacy. The people who know need to keep making individual efforts to educate people on this matter.
May 24, 200817 yr ^ Talking about negativity... I look forward to the streetcar but it didn't affect my decision to move here nor will it be a factor in my decision to remain here. Every american city I have been suffers from the negativity factor of locals, no city is immune. It's not really being negative, b/c I'm positive about this city in general, but all the negativity in this city (in the years past) wears on you and you want to go somewhere positive. That being said, I think this city has made great strides in just the past few years and has the potential to be one of the best cities in America. I think that is what gets on my nerve. So much wasted potential.
May 24, 200817 yr I'm positive about this city in general, but all the negativity in this city (in the years past) wears on you and you want to go somewhere positive. That being said, I think this city has made great strides in just the past few years and has the potential to be one of the best cities in America. I think that is what gets on my nerve. So much wasted potential. I agree. I graduate from UC in 2010, and, of course it depends where jobs are available, but I want to seriously consider staying in Cincinnati. But when basic, common-sense projects like the streetcar face so much opposition, it makes me want to go someplace where these type of things are actually getting done right. I hope Cincinnati proves that perception wrong by getting the Riverfront Park, Banks Phase 1, and the Streetcar done according to plan.
May 24, 200817 yr It's amazing how often I hear these same statements from young people. It is hard to convince somebody that these sentiments actually exist because there is no imperical data to back it up (and everybody NEEDS imperical data to be convinced on anything it seems). The younger generations, in America, have grown up watching shows like Friends, Seinfeld, etc. These are shows that have highlighted urban living and a particular kind of lifestyle. The older generations were raised during the post WWII propaganda machine that was promoting the "American Dream" (house in the 'burbs, white picket fence, a dog, 2.3 kids) as if our national security depended on it. This is no longer the world we live in, and the cities/leaders that understand this will be best position for this wave of population movement. Those who are relunctant and push back will be in a bad, bad way...especially those cities that missed out on the past couple of population movements (i.e. most Midwestern cities). They are the ones who risk total failure and deterioration as entire regions.
May 24, 200817 yr It seems like most young people would initially prefer to live in the city when they are single, but once they get their life established with wife, job & kids they feel the need to live that so called american dream in the suburbs. Thats exactly what happened in friends if you remember the last season. As you mature, your way of thinking changes. Luckily for me I was raised in a rural/county atmosphere & now live in the city.
May 24, 200817 yr It seems like most young people would initially prefer to live in the city when they are single, but once they get their life established with wife, job & kids they feel the need to live that so called American dream in the suburbs. As you mature, your way of thinking changes. I hear this argument quite a bit when I mention this or when I mention that I personally don't shop at places like WalMart, Meijer, Sam's Club, Target, ect...or when I say that I'm totally opposed to SUV's/Van's (most people aren't having 4 kids anymore...therefore a regular sedan would suffice for the typical 1 child household). They always say well things will change when you get older and start a family. My values and personal beliefs say otherwise. You can raise children and a family in the city. I don't EVER seeing myself out in the 'burbs with a family. You'll find me in an established city neighborhood...somewhere where the kiddies can walk to school, a park, and socialize with neighborhood kids. What would be ideal is if a streetcar served our established neighborhood and we could take the streetcar from our neighborhood to an area to get our retail needs and what not.
May 24, 200817 yr What about when suburbs didn't exist? As if raising kids in a city, which has been done for millenia, is some sort of novelty. I get the impression that people in both Cs complain about the streetcar and how we need light rail, but they voted against it when light rail was on the ballot, or is that just C-bus (even in print, I don't like it)? I really don't see why there are so many hoops to jump through, as utility interference is few and far between due to streetcar tracks being much less deep than regular light rail, it would just be corners, bridges, overhead utility poles, and other obstacles. Albuquerque started looking into streetcars around the same time as us, yet they're poised to complete their system in 2009. Why do Ohio cities have to go through all this extra bullshit? I hope Cincy can get theirs running by 2010 so I can get my streetcar fix in this state before I'm 30.
May 24, 200817 yr ^^ I wasn't saying you in particular, but more people than not. I hope you stick to your plan, and I agree that anyone could raise a family in the city if they so choose. I don't shop at target, walmart or sams club either, although I will go to meijer if absolutely needed. I have been known to wait in the car for someone if they insisted on going to walmart or sams club, I despise those two place.
May 24, 200817 yr Guys, the negativity is mind boggling, but local media is still driving that. I know many westsiders who have been commenting positively (much to my surprise) about the city and the many awesome developments which have been hard for the media to ignore. This is something I wouldn't have said 6 months to a year ago. The ball is rolling and it is up to citizens like us to keep reinforcing it via blog, opinion sections, etc. I have said it before and I will say it again, there is more going on right now (all at once in this city) than I believe I have seen in the past 28 years combined. As Chris points out, Can you imagine a more exciting time to live in Cincinnati? I can't!! People's opinions about the city are changing for the good everyday, but it will take time to reverse the years of suburban (and urban) negativity against our core. Chris, it's good to hear from you again. Please feel free to rant all you want on here. I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say it is our great pleasure to have you on our side. Keep up the great fight!!
May 25, 200817 yr I have encountered more negativity on this website than everywhere else combined, there is no question about that. This is america so I expect no less than half of the peoples opinions to be utter ignorance and The other half I expect to be educated & rational. The following statement just might be offensive to some people, but I think the naacp thrives on negativity and encourages ignorance. I find it appalling that they would not support the streetcar!
May 25, 200817 yr ^ I personally don't find that offensive. That's a common symptom of such organizations. As someone who was a Teamster for 10 years, I found that while labor unions purport to be looking out for the best interests of "the working man", but they always seem to have the best interest of the union itself in mind instead. If they can help the workers they'll do it, but if it's a choice between the workers and something the union itself wants, forget it. Thankfully, I found my way out of that awful position. Anyway, I think that the NAACP is similar, in that it should be looking for progressive, realistic ways to aid the black community, but it often makes power plays and takes political stances aimed only at grabbing headlines and/or ensuring the continued strength of the NAACP as an organization. Unfortunately, these moves do not always coincide with what is best for the black community. The streetcar is a perfect example of that. It's going to connect a predominantly black neighborhood with the 2 biggest employment centers in the region. It promises to bring reinvestment to the crumbling architecture, which if successful, will no doubt bring overdue upgrades to utilities and other public infrastructure to the area. It is designed to bring in more residents, which will help what crime problem still exists, by putting more eyes on the streets, making it a safer neighborhood for everyone to live in. This is just a short list of the benefits this plan holds for the residents of OTR, and it appears that the financing plan won't involve anything that places an undue (any?) burden on the black population, so how exactly can the NAACP rationalize opposing it? It doesn't appear to based on the facts, whatever their reasoning. Even if this turned out to be a total flop, there's zero downside to OTR's residents. This reeks of some sort of political move.
May 25, 200817 yr Damned if you do, damned if you don't!! If the city wasn't trying to do all the things in OTR that they have been doing, groups like these would STILL be bashing the city saying they were forgeting about the poor and the neighborhoods in which they live. I agree with Jimmy_James, this will connect OTR with the two biggest employment areas in the region. Folks who have been living off the system will have no excuse anymore as to why they can't be a productive member of society. (Not that they really have an excuse now either.)
May 25, 200817 yr Dear Transit Supporter, No surprise: we're driving less -- about 4.3% fewer miles than last year, the first annual decline since 1979 and the largest yearly decline on record. On the other hard, public transportation use is now at its highest level in fifty years, with rail systems showing 6% year-over-year gains. Our region is not reacting to these trends aggressively enough. Let me explain. The Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments is now updating its 2030 Plan, a document that guides investment in transportation projects here. Ohio and Kentucky will be spending about $4.4 billion over the next couple decades on new and improved roadways, transit, bike and pedestrian programs, freight and information technology systems. Another $2.5 billion will be spent on the operations and maintenance of our mobility systems. Kentucky expects to invest $1.4 billion on roadway projects compared to only $22 million on transit -- fully 63 times as much on a mode of travel that is declining nationwide compared to one that is growing. Ohio's program is a little more balanced. Projected spending for roadways is $2.3 billion. While transit is nominally slated to receive $509 million, about $410 million of this sum is for the Eastern Corridor rail project which, in my view, has little chance of ever getting built. If it does get built, the numbers show that it will be a very poor performer. So that leaves about $99 million for all other transit projects for the next couple of decades. It's still heavily lopsided in favor of roads -- in Ohio, we'll spend about $23 for highways for every $1 spent on transit. I don't blame OKI's planners for this. They reflect the political will of the elected officials of our region. After all, Hamilton County voters defeated the 2002 MetroMoves ballot issue by a large margin. That's the reality. But oil prices have risen 500% since then, and I believe people are now looking for more choices in their transportation options. They are looking for their leaders to stay ahead of the curve. OKI will be receiving public testimony on its 2030 Plan this Thursday, May 29th at 5:30p. The hearing will be in OKI's offices at 720 East Pete Rose Way, Suite 420. There's a big public parking lot right across the street. Here is a link to the 2030 Plan: http://www.oki.org/index.asp Hope you're enjoying this beautiful holiday weekend.
May 26, 200817 yr ^^ I wasn't saying you in particular, but more people than not. I know you weren't talking specifically to me, but I was simply countering an argument that is often used as a wide-reaching rationale behind a lifestyle that is a drain on resources and society.
May 26, 200817 yr I posted this on Randy's Facebook wall, but thought it is worth sharing here, "It's time that the entire country learn from what's happening right here in Portland with mass transit and bicycle lanes and funding alternative means of transportation. That's the kind of solution that we need for America." -- Barack Obama, speaking to a rally in Portland, Ore., where an estimated 8,000 out of 75,000 attendees arrived on bikes
May 26, 200817 yr ^ I hope he's serious and wasn't just using transit to draw some "cheap heat" while in Portland. I'm going to be pissed if he makes it into office and we never hear another word about rail from him.
May 26, 200817 yr True, that may be the case. He really is preaching to the choir in Portland but I'm still glad he said it.
May 26, 200817 yr >I just don't trust politicians This photo of John Cranley partying in 1999 in a Harvard Square apartment (on Story St., literally 50 feet from the Harvard Square subway station -- yet Cranley "wants to understand" the streetcar) surfaced online:
May 26, 200817 yr Me neither, really. Bush said he'd stay out of messy foreign affairs right before he was elected. Either way, right now people are listening to everything candidates say and if nothing else, it raises "awareness". Now we need tons of coverage on how Obama is so great because he plans to improve and sustain great infrastructure in a peak oil economy.
May 27, 200817 yr ^^Cranley's such a hypocrite. Sure he wears good old Midwestern plaid when he's in Cincinnati, but when he goes on the liberal East Coast cocktail party circuit he switches into polos.
May 27, 200817 yr Author Back on topic... New streetcar shirts Park + Vine $24, a portion of the proceeds go to support the Cincinnati Streetcar
May 27, 200817 yr ^Is there anything on the back? What specifically does the money go towards, is it some sort of general fund that will be used to cover a portion of the private money needed? If that's the case then that is fantastic!
May 27, 200817 yr Author $$$ goes to running the website. There is the route map and landmarks on the back
May 27, 200817 yr OKI will be receiving public testimony on its 2030 Plan this Thursday, May 29th at 5:30p. The hearing will be in OKI's offices at 720 East Pete Rose Way, Suite 420. There's a big public parking lot right across the street. John, no offense but at the end of your well-thought out and well-worded message you resorted to supporting the mode that's in decline at the exclusion of the mode that you're asking others to provide more funding. I'm not singling you out... I've ragged on Cleveland RTA for providing driving and parking instructions to public meetings while they've ignored transit access info. How do we get to the OKI meeting by transit? If you can't, say that too. People listen to you and respect you. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 27, 200817 yr ^ The irony of that does occur to me when I post meeting notices, but I always include parking info because most people will drive, and I want the most people to come. On the transit side, I'd advise people to take any bus downtown and then walk east on Fourth Street through Lytle Park to OKI on Pete Rose Way. Probably the best walk in downtown Cincinnati.
May 27, 200817 yr Author From James Howard Kunstler: I've been to Cincy a lot over the years and am always impressed by the sturdiness of Over-the-Rhine -- but amazed, too, at its resistance to gentrification (which I regard as a healthy process, not a negative). Well, of course, any city that wants to be taken seriously should have a streetcar system. I hope you succeed. (I used the streetcar in Portland last month getting from the airport to my hotel -- very easy and pleasant.) Jim "It's All Good" "Va tutto bene"
May 28, 200817 yr ^^I love that quote, thomasbw, I just wish he hadn't confused Portland's red line, which is light rail, with their streetcar. Admittedly, this is very easy to do in Portland because their light rail functions as a "streetcar" when it gets to downtown, but it's still erroneous. Other than that minor error, I agree with him 100%. Awesome t-shirt, by the way.
May 28, 200817 yr On my drive into the office, I was listening to NPR on WVXU, and they said that they'll be talking about the streetcar plan tomorrow on their Impact Cincinnati segment at 9:20. I couldn't tell if they would be taking callers or not, but it's probably worth listening to regardless. //update: looks like they're going to be interviewing both Chris Bortz and John Cranley. This should be interesting. http://www.wvxu.org/impact/ Thursday, 05/29/08, 91.7 WVXU, 9:20 AM
May 28, 200817 yr Also Chris Bortz and Brad Thomas will be on 55KRC (AM550) Sunday night, June 1st, at 7:00 - 8:00.
May 28, 200817 yr Author Just a Reminder: Cincinnati Streetcar Forum: Promoting Growth & Mobility June 10, 2008 8:00 a.m - 1:30 p.m. University of Cincinnati Tangeman University Center (TUC) To Register: http://www.uc.edu/conferencing/Details.asp?ConferenceID=299
May 29, 200817 yr How'd things end up going on WVXU this morning? I tuned in and then my radio ran out of batteries at like 9:25.
May 29, 200817 yr I thought that Chris Bortz did very well. He laid out a cogent argument, and had reasonable answers ready for every question. John Cranley, on the other hand, came off as opposing this just for the sake of opposition. His objections didn't always make sense, and his arguments usually boiled down to "this will take money away from other government programs that people depend on", "we need more buses", and "this will hurt The Banks", even though most of this has been shown to be baseless. He kept throwing out sensationalistic language which I think hurt his argument overall. I especially liked the part where Cranley complained that streetcars sit in traffic unlike light rail which has its own dedicated track, which was immediately followed by Bortz calling comparisons between streetcars and light rail "disingenuous". Nice. I also enjoyed the bit where Cranley was railing on operational funding, and how Metro's fares only cover 1/4 of their costs leaving the gov't to fund the rest, and Bortz corrected him, pointing out that ad revenues cover a large portion of those costs, and that "operational funding is around step 248, and right now we're on step 4".
May 29, 200817 yr Hello folks, I'm in Munich *right now* (haha, suckers!), and I've been paying keen attention to how the Tram (German and British for streetcar) functions. Here in Munich, the interaction between car and Tram is pretty darn good. Yes, the Tram has to sit at a light more than one would like, but at every light, there are a second set of lights just for the Tram (they are white and unintelligible, i.e., non-confusing to regular folks). Guess who gets to go first when the other direction turns red? Not the automobiles. There are also sections of street where one of the Tram lines in one direction gets a dedicated lane. It's not a perfect system (i.e., fully grade-separated) but it's pretty damn good. The other big thing I noticed here is that the Tram often doesn't "pull over" to take on passengers. People seem to simply know that passing a tram on the right is a huge no-no when it's pulling up to a Tram stop, or -- get this -- the curb "pulls over" to the railway. Brilliant! The bottom line for me is, if Cincinnati doesn't hire some German engineers (or even just take lessons) to help design this thing, it won't reach its full potential. </rant> and Prost!
June 3, 200817 yr Author Streetcars In Cincinnati Posted by admin | Filed under Past Shows www.cincystreetcar.com Guests: Chris Bortz Councilman, City of Cincinnati Attorney, Towne Properties Brad Thomas Founder of Cincystreetcar.com Graduate of the University of Cincinnati College of Law. http://mycityliving.com/streetcars.mp3
June 3, 200817 yr HaHa... Blake from erlanger was an absolute moron, He received a quick dose of education to cure what ails him. His comment about how newport on the levee doing so well was a riot. I wish they would have asked him when he was there last. If I wasn't familiar with the public I would think this was staged because its so disappointing that people are so ignorant about such issues, especially when there are so many places to get information. I think they did a great job and a few callers hung up the phone with an higher IQ.
June 3, 200817 yr ^Nice stuff...the caller from Florence was my favorite. lol, what'd he say? He started off by saying that he "knows for a fact that Duke Energy doesn't support this system." This statement was interrupted by Bortz informing the man that Duke Energy is one of the chief sponsors of the Streetcar Forum being held at UC...and that they are quite receptive to the idea. The guy went on and on with follow up statements taken directly out of the 700 WLW book. He said something like people will be getting on and riding around with all their guns (quickly refuted by both Bortz and Thomas with crime stats and logic). He ended his call (after being thoroughly rejected on everyone of his false statements) by saying "well Newport on the Levee is doing pretty good and they don't have a streetcar." This was followed up by Bortz informing the man that the retail portion is in fact struggling, and that it is the movie theatre that does well and not much else.
June 3, 200817 yr Didn't he say something like a mother of four was shot, like that should have ended the whole arguement right there. I was telling thomasbw last night, the guys that work with me and live outside the loop seemed to be mad I already have it too good with a free 8 minute ride to work while they're spending $100+ a week on gas. That seems to be the biggest gripe they have with the streetcar.
June 4, 200817 yr the guys that work with me and live outside the loop seemed to be mad I already have it too good with a free 8 minute ride to work while they're spending $100+ a week on gas. That seems to be the biggest gripe they have with the streetcar. As ridiculous as it sounds, that doesn't surprise me.
June 4, 200817 yr ^I've also picked up on a backlash against motor scooters. The radio was of course touting scooters as being "dangerous" when really the problem with scooters is that you can't listen to the radio while riding them.
June 4, 200817 yr the guys that work with me and live outside the loop seemed to be mad I already have it too good with a free 8 minute ride to work while they're spending $100+ a week on gas. That seems to be the biggest gripe they have with the streetcar. As ridiculous as it sounds, that doesn't surprise me. I have a ten minute walk to work, and I do receive comments from people about how it must be nice to save so much money on gas and parking. I feel like saying that we chose this lifestyle, just like they chose theirs. We purposely decided that we could live in a smaller space if we meant we didn't need to drive as much.
June 4, 200817 yr ^ This is so true. Had a beer with a college friend tonight who has been in the corporate rat-race for years. After the breakup of his marriage, he moved downtown, finds he doesn't drive much anymore and generally feels like a kid in a candy shop. He doesn't miss the big house at all.
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