Here it is for everyone, unless I hear some sort of clarification...I plan on sending out massive emails tomorrow asking that people flood their inboxes with emails in opposition to this ridiculous move by the county!

 

Pat DeWine:

(513) 946-4405

fax (513) 946-4404

[email protected]

 

David Pepper:

(513) 946-4409

fax (513) 946-4407

[email protected]

 

Todd Portune:

(513) 946-4401

fax (513) 946-4446

[email protected]

LOL! this article is so ridiculous it cannot be accurate.  Portune has to be on the same page with Bortz and the city for the real streetcars solution not this amusement ride.  If I had to guess I would say the author has the story wrong not Portune.  Now if this is his thinking than he belongs in the circus along with the ride.

 

Well I have emailed the commissioners with my thoughts/concerns...hopefully they respond to my email.  I would hope you're right, and that somehow this story is wrong, but somehow I can just see this type of thing happening.

worthless, im going to write some emails

I really could not believe my eyes when I saw that story on Channel 5's website.  Might as well throw the Mallory's and Bortz's emails up there also to send emails to.  Mallory has to start speaking up publicly about this crap and get everybody on the same page.  He is supposed to be a "Strong" Mayor.

WTF?? 

 

Let me present you with the visual:

 

The subtitle of this proposal should be: "How can we fool 'em today?"

Look how the article is written; it has to be a joke.

Why can't the county get on board with one thing the City is trying to do??  This seems to be counterproductive to all of the Streetcar work going on.  Can't the County use the money they have set aside for this "system" to help fund the Steetcar??  Makes the most since to me.  How about you guys??

 

They can't use the money for the streetcar or rail, they can't even fathom it.  That money is ear-marked for adding a lane to each side of the freeway, or extending the freeway, or turning some local roads into freeways, or stacking freeways.  (okay, being sarcastic, but you get my drift.)

 

CINCINNATI -- County leaders told News 5 the money for a new type of downtown mass transit is in place.

 

Sure it is. -_-  Isn't that what was said, last year and the year before that, etc and so forth.

 

Routes are being considered for a trolley system, officials said, which the city hasn't seen since the 1950s.

 

When you think of cities that are on the go and on the move, you think of cities that have public transportation that is interesting, said Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune.

 

This is the only part of the story that doesn't deserve a /mudsling

 

The trolleys would have rubber wheels, similar to the trolley cars now used during festivals and other events, and would not require special tracks or wires.

 

FAIL

Even Dayton's trollies are actually trollies.  Then again, wasn't there a lot of clamor to pave over old rail lines?  I guess this is the result.

 

"I'm not sure it adds that much to the downtown by having a trolley system," said downtown worker Bob DelSanto.

 

0 out of 10.

Go back out to the suburbs where you feel safe.

 

Officials hope to get government approval, purchase the vehicles and put them on the streets by the end of the summer.

 

Knowing Cincy and their timetables this really means, sometime in 2012.

 

 

Ah well

Back to the spectator's box.

 

Let me vomit.

 

 

 

 

(barf)

 

Better. I've seen "trolley" systems and they are pathetic. The only thing that can save it, if its approved, is if its natural gas or hydrogen powered.

So if these "Trolleys" :whip: are implemented, does that mean no REAL trolleys or streetcars for the 'nati for the time being?

The only thing that can save it, if its approved, is if its natural gas or hydrogen powered.

 

Don't you know that hydrogen is a four letter word in the US??

Todd Portune got some email today.

 

Based on his responses forwarded to me, here's why he opposes the downtown streetcar:

 

* It will cost "a good half a billion dollars" to build. This is untrue. More like $100 million.

 

* There is "very little appetite" to build it.

 

If you know of any other reasons why he opposes the downtown streetcar, please post them.

Why the crap is the damn county even getting involved!?!?!?  This project has not asked for county help once...so why the hell is the county trying to oppose the streetcar movement.

 

I just don't understand...I wish that this would be cleared up for me.  If this is just a temporary thing that will hold us over until streetcars debut, then fine.  But if this is truly an alternative (a cheap, lousy alternative at that) to streetcars then I will be absolutely pissed!

 

Why is it that the county seems to be having a ego contest with the city.  The city proposes something, and then the county comes up with the "better, cheaper, more efficient alternative" to that proposal.  It would be nice if the county would focus on county-wide issues and quit barking up the city's tree.  The city does not involve itself with county-wide issues (although it would certainly like to).

 

I'm growing VERY tired of this political BS that the county is pulling.  I thought that the climate would be changing with the Dems in control, but obviously EVERYONE just needs to go and just start fresh!

Montecarloss, please keep re-posting the photo of the fake truck-trolley every now and then, just to keep this vision for our city firmly fixed in our minds. Thanks.

Is Portune a member of the Downtown Cincinnati Stakeholder Group ?  or is he just a trying to fire up the COAST fanatics?

Is Portune a member of the Downtown Cincinnati Stakeholder Group ?  or is he just a trying to fire up the COAST fanatics?

 

No and maybe.

I sent email to Todd Portune expressing my feelings over this.  In my message, I asked him what research he did to determine that downtown Cincinnati should have trolleys, and are there any studies that show that trolleys can help revitalize an urban area.  I plan on emailing the other county commissioners tomorrow.

I emailed all three commissioners yesterday and seemed to receive the same generic response that others received.  I sent a follow up email to all three with my repeated concerns and furthermore my concerns about the trends that I am seeing from Hamilton County and its leadership.

 

We have got to stay strong on this...and would also suggest email Chris Bortz and SORTA about the issue.  Todd Portune claimed that this effort has the support of Bortz and SORTA officials.  I would recommend that everyone pressure answers from these officials as well.  I FIND ALL THIS TO BE GETTING VERY:

 

RIDICULOUS!!!

We have got to stay strong on this...and would also suggest email Chris Bortz and SORTA about the issue.  Todd Portune claimed that this effort has the support of Bortz and SORTA officials. 

 

That surprised me about Bortz.  I thought he was a big supporter of the streetcar. 

Well apparently he finds this effort to be complimentary to the streetcar effort.  I think that something shady is going on and that there has been some serious smoke and mirrors efforts to make this thing reach the point it is at now.

Based on the phone calls and emails I've been getting from people in the know, there may be less to Portune's proposal than meets the eye. Reminds me of what LBJ once said about a colleague, "The trouble is, he's all hat and no cattle."

 

I'd give Chris Bortz the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

The electronic media seems to be catching on: http://www.cincynation.com/

I would think Portune would have a soft spot for the great handicapped accessibility of the streetcars.

For your viewing pleasure.

 

I would think Portune would have a soft spot for the great handicapped accessibility of the streetcars.

 

You'd think. Watch this video of the Portland Streetcar if you haven't seen it already:

 

 

For your viewing pleasure.

 

 

that is from the Saints and Sinners tours, or another bockfest tour isnt' it?

^ Yes, thomasbw.

 

Why can't the leaders in the community realize by doing this half ass, they are doing exactly what the skeptics in the community whine about time and time again.  While many cities are progressing toward a rail option we are stuck with a glorified bus.

Hey maybe they plan on painting tracks onto the road for this faux trolley system...that would complete the whole thing...

 

*vomits*

Wait, is this confirmed as being true?

Watch this video of the Portland Streetcar if you haven't seen it already:

 

 

Interesting

The streets look nothing like CBD/OTR. Much wider and more open.

The handicap access is disturbing in that it does no show a person getting in, securing and unsecuring their chair.

There are no fares ? Nobody actually seems to pay.

There were no cyclists in the bike lane. No cyclists wrecking on the track...

There is no indication of the frequency of runs & stops.

The stop in front of the sidewalk cafe interested me as Cincinnati frowns on such things and there are next to no areas in CBD & OTR that could afford such a place. I hate to say itbut if there were, it would be overrun by obnoxious teenagers (who seemd conspicuously absent in the video).

I agree that the dumb trolleybusthing is a lousy idea but I think dedicated shuttle buses would be a better idea.

You guys say that the investment in track gives an idea of commitment & permanence to people but I remember driving over old abandoned track as a young'n. I don't get that part at all.

I will now duck.

Went to tampas historic district Ybor city recently which also hapens to be a huge place for nightlife.  they have these slow moving streetcars that go in the middle of the street and take passengers who are touring and intoxicated passengers around.  pretty sweet idea if you ask me. 

Quim, the reason that streetcars were abandoned in the United States was because G.M. bought up the systems and shut them down.  It is highly doubtful that this would happen again. 

 

If a streetcar system was put in place, you would see development pop up all along the line, and it would increase the quality of life for everyone in the downtown area.

Quim,

we can't retreat from the public realm because we are afraid of obnoxious teenagers.

wheelchairs can roll easily onto the streetcar, and they do not necessarily have to be strapped in as the ride is much smoother.

cyclists can also roll their bikes ON the car, and stand next to them.  No need to put them on a rack on the front of a bus.

Dedicated shuttles is lame.  Who would they serve and what would they do that a bus doesn't?

 

Watch this video of the Portland Streetcar if you haven't seen it already:

 

 

 

The streets look nothing like CBD/OTR. Much wider and more open.

* Most Portland streets are 48 feet wide, just like Cincinnati.

 

The handicap access is disturbing in that it does no show a person getting in, securing and unsecuring their chair.

* The ride is so smooth that disabled people don't have to be strapped-in like they do in a bus.

 

There are no fares ? Nobody actually seems to pay.

* Fares are free in the downtown. Otherwise, there is an onboard pay-station that doesn't show up in the video, but it's there. Riders are randomly check for tickets.

 

There were no cyclists in the bike lane. No cyclists wrecking on the track...

* Cyclists in Portland are some of the biggest supporters of light rail and streetcars there. This is not an issue with them so far as I know.

 

There is no indication of the frequency of runs & stops.

* Seven minutes at peak, average of every thirteen minutes at other times.

 

The stop in front of the sidewalk cafe interested me as Cincinnati frowns on such things and there are next to no areas in CBD & OTR that could afford such a place.

* Portland's sidewalks are generally 13 feet wide, the same as downtown Cincinnati's.

 

I hate to say itbut if there were, it would be overrun by obnoxious teenagers (who seemd conspicuously absent in the video).

* Downtown Portland is filled with teenagers and they are every bit as obnoxious as the ones here. Plus, purple hair.

 

I agree that the dumb trolleybusthing is a lousy idea but I think dedicated shuttle buses would be a better idea.

* Not like it's never been tried here before. In fact, the bus shown in the photo above was bought at a fire-sale price from the transit company that went broke providing this service.

 

You guys say that the investment in track gives an idea of commitment & permanence to people but I remember driving over old abandoned track as a young'n. I don't get that part at all.

* No electric rail system that has opened in the United States since the end of World War II has ever gone out of business. Don't understand why the permanance is important? What if CVG weren't permanent? What if I-71 could be moved on a whim? What if your street were "flexible." Permanence in transportation is the essence of its value. Think about it.

 

I will now duck.

* Better yet: go to Portland and see for yourself.

 

KJP already posted this link, but it should probably be seen by these commissioners.

 

http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt007.htm

Today Chris Bortz sent the following email to some streetcar supporters, and he said it was OK to share it with you.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

"I want to be clear about my support for a true streetcar system, operating on permanent tracks.  I am fully committed to getting funding for a streetcar and want it underway within two years.  Period.

 

I would be very concerned about any other proposals which would detract from accomplishing our goal.  I look forward to continuing our work.

 

Please feel free to call me to discuss.

 

-Chris Bortz"

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

Nice to have a champion, for once.

 

John Schneider

 

 

Just wanted to say that I'll be at the OKI mtg when Bortz makes his presentation on Thursday.  For those who don't know about it, it is generally from 12:30 - 1:30 at the OKI bldg downtown.  John Schneider has all the details.

I would imagine this would be an easy sell, their 2030 plan has essentially the same streetcar component,

 

http://www.oki.org/pdf/2030updatech12.pdf

 

pages 15-16

Cincinnati City Councilman Chris Bortz will present his case for the Downtown Cincinnati Streetcar to the board of the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments (OKI) this Thursday, April 12th.

 

Bortz's presentation will start around 12:50p and last a half-hour. The meeting actually begins at 12:30p, but feel free to come just for his presentation.

 

OKI is located in Suite 420 at 720 East Pete Rose Way -- the northwest corner of Pete Rose Way and Eggleston Avenue opposite the entrance to Sawyer Point Park. On a nice day, it's an enjoyable 10-15 minute walk from Fountain Square via Lytle Park. You can also pay to park in the Sawyer Point parking lot.

 

I'm guessing we'll see and hear some new things, and a show of support is always valuable.

 

Hope to see you there.

 

I went down to the OKI presentation today and...

 

I thought that it went VERY well!  I didn't hear anything new about the system from what I have already heard on here, but Bortz did a fantastic job at fielding questions and dispelling myths about funding and function of the potential system!  There was a large turnout, with just about all the seats in the room filled.  Unfortunately there weren't a lot of young people (surprise, surprise).

 

I was there along with 2 other Urban Planning students from UC, and there was an entire class of XU students there that have been working with Bortz on the project.  That was about it though.  I suggest that if we really want to make an impact the young people have to come out in full force when they have these types of meetings.  Politicians and others keep claiming how important the YP's are, but lets make them hear and see us!!!  We need to be out there saying, talk isn't enough...WE WANT THIS SYSTEM AND YOU BETTER DELIVER!  I don't want the YP's to continue to be used as leverage in political conversations without anything real coming of it.

 

Be loud, and be proud YP's!

I've been going to OKI meetings for most of the last ten years, and I've never seen the room as crowded as it was today. People who regulary attend these meetings took note. John Cranley handled our major streetcar opponent deftly. And I agree, Chris Bortz did a great job.

 

Next Portland trip is May 25th. Seven people have signed up so far.

 

Former Cincinnati Mayor Roxanne Qualls was the keynote speaker at Downtown Cincinnati Inc.'s annual meeting yesterday, and the Cincinnati Post had the money quote:

 

"A person of talent has choices," she said. "They have the choice of living anywhere in this country or probably the world."

 

What they care about most is the quality of that "built environment" - public transportation, public squares, wide sidewalks, and active urban areas. They also want "spontaneity, unpredictability and creativity," she said.

 

"That's the standards we need to be building in this community," Qualls said.

 

"These are the values of people of talent. It requires that we have a deeper respect of the public realm."

 

DCI's Co-Chairman, Mayor Mark Mallory, showed up with a surprise guest: New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. A pretty good day for Cincinnati in general and our downtown in particular.

 

 

A link to a very good series of short articles entitled "Downtown Dream Schemes" from today's Cincinnati Enquirer.  The proposed downtown streetcar is among the ideas discussed.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=wishlist

City Beat has got the preferred route posted on the Porkopolis blog.

 

http://citybeat.com/2007-04-18/Final_street.pdf

 

http://citybeat.wordpress.com/2007/04/23/new-streetcar-route/

excellent.  I think that goal now is to have the streetcar become operational in conjuction with the completion of the first phase of the banks.

^ thats what i was thinking

 

I love how the momentum is really picking up downtown!  We are really starting to build a great downtown...all the people who have been b!tching about how Cincy will never build a streetcar system or The Banks and who say why can't we do what Nky is doing...can/will have to shut up in about 2 yrs!

Here is the City Beat post:

 

New Streetcar Route

 

City leaders have settled on a preferred route for a proposed streetcar system through downtown and Over-the-Rhine. To ensure the system generates the most redevelopment spin-off on surrounding blocks, the chosen route is longer than initially discussed and covers a larger area.

http://citybeat.wordpress.com/2007/04/23/new-streetcar-route/

Why doesn't the renderings of The Banks that were released today show streetcars or streetcar tracks??  I would think that they were advised of the concurrent project being discussed and proposed??

I would assume it is because that since both the streetcar and FWW lids have their own funding issues and are separate projects.  The Central Riverfront Park is separate, but the funding is in place to start the park's 1st phase right now!  That is not so with FWW lids and the streetcar system.  They probably just don't want to tie The Banks to those projects and risk a let down.  People will be confused and assume that the lids and/or the streetcars are part of The Banks development...which is not the case.

 

I would hope that they build the streetcar lines in while they are building phase 1 of The Banks and the Central Riverfront Park.  This would be a great way to keep this project moving quickly and also be the best financial situation.  I'm ready!