Sounds like things are starting to heat up in the Uptown area...

 

Streetcar: W. Clifton or Vine?

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/07/streetcar-w-clifton-or-vine.html

Corryville homeowner says Kroger development would hinder streetcar:

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/08/corryville-homeowner-says-kroger.html

 

Kroger strikes first?

 

    What's the latest news on the streetcar? It seemed to have so much interest and then disappeared from the discussion.

 

   

Corryville homeowner says Kroger development would hinder streetcar:

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/08/corryville-homeowner-says-kroger.html

 

Kroger strikes first?

 

As you can see from the comments there now, there is some question over the validity of this claim.  How did a suburban-style Kroger get approved without anyone on these forums noticing?  Surely the city didn't abandon the entire University Plaza redevelopment/Vine Street reconnection project.

Isn't 60,000 sq ft pretty small for a grocery though?  Suburban at that?

Isn't 60,000 sq ft pretty small for a grocery though? Suburban at that?

 

I'm not sure about the size, but all the plans I've seen have shown a multi-level development with a parking deck below the store itself or the store wrapped around the parking lot to hide it.  And all of them showed Vine getting reconnected with Short Vine. Obviously, building the new store right in the middle would block the reconnection with Vine and block the best possible route for the streetcar.

A 60,000 sf store would nearly double the size of the current store. 

Isn't the X-Kroger CEO a vocal anti-streetcar opponet? The Great Kroger Conspiracy?? I always hated those little kroger plus cards!!

A 60,000 sf store would nearly double the size of the current store. 

 

Wow!    That is a really small Kroger if it is 30,000.    I thought most of their newer (suburban) designs range from 125 - 150.      Normally, Old Navy, Staples, and TJMaxx's run in the 25-30 range.

 

I really hope they reconnect Short Vine though!  That should be Priority ONE for that area!!!!

 

What's the latest news on the streetcar? It seemed to have so much interest and then disappeared from the discussion.

 

 

 

 

My contacts at City Hall are optimistic. In this town, when you're not hearing news on something, it's probably a good thing. It means people don't want to blow the deal and so they are keeping their mouths shut.

 

 

Look at this post for the disappointing plans for the new University Plaza... totally eliminating the proposed connection between Vine & Short Vine...

Seriously?  The reconnection of Vine was the best part of the whole project!

Great to see this article in the NYT. Cincinnati being the focal point on bringing streetcars to the cities. Even Columbus gets a blurb. I don't know if this is in the print addition. I'll have to nick my bosses' copy. 

 

Downtowns Across the U.S. See Streetcars in Their Future

By BOB DRIEHAUS, Published: August 13, 2008

 

CINCINNATI — From his months-old French bistro, Jean-Robert de Cavel sees restored Italianate row houses against a backdrop of rundown tenements in this city’s long-struggling Over-the-Rhine neighborhood. He also sees a turnaround for the district, thanks to plans to revive a transit system that was dismantled in the 1950s: the humble streetcar line.

 

“Human beings can be silly because we move away from things too quickly in this country,” Mr. de Cavel said. “Streetcar is definitely going to create a reason for young people to come downtown.” Cincinnati officials are assembling financing for a $132 million system that would connect the city’s riverfront stadiums, downtown business district and Uptown neighborhoods, which include six hospitals and the University of Cincinnati, in a six- to eight-mile loop. Depending on the final financing package, fares may be free, 50 cents or $1.

 

To read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/us/14streetcar.html

One word: Fantastic!

I would think reporters would eventually realize that if there is only one guy to quote on why these things are a bad idea then maybe its not worth spending a full quote on the dude.

streetcar lines is dependent on public subsidy

 

So where does he think streets and highways come from.

Do they shoot out of fairy's asses with sunshine?

It would be nice to see the enquirer do reporting like this! Instead of playing to the suburbanite crowd, doing an impartial piece that reports the news

Notice the picture choice vs. the Enquirers.

I just emailed this article out to about 60 people.  Some of the lucky ones included are all of the Cincinnati City Council members.

^

were P&G, Kroger, 5/3, AF among others on the list of 60 people?

We've hit the big time now!    NYT!!!!

 

I love that shot of Music Hall..............(Speechless!!)

That would be a great t-shirt.

that rendering scares me. looks like ghosts should be coming out of the music hall.

that rendering scares me. looks like ghosts should be coming out of the music hall.

 

It's a pretty bad rendering...not something I'm particularly pleased they put in the NY Times.

I didn't see that picture in the actual print edition today.  Did I miss it, or was it only online?

Either way, I'm spooked. 

I think that rendering is a three year old glaserworks mock up

Don't know, I like it, its not bad as far as most renderings go.

Don't know, I like it, its not bad as far as most renderings go.

 

I like it too. You guys need to man up, if you ask me. ;)

Just got back from Portland where, along with several of City of Cincinnati department heads, we undertook some more due-diligence of the Portland Streetcar.

 

Here are a couple of things we confirmed:

 

* First, despite what Randal O'Toole says, Portland doesn't subsidize condos along the streetcar line, other than occasional streetscape improvements that are not material. They do subsidize a few rental projects that offer affordable housing, green roofs and more storefront retail than most developers would want to build. This fact enables O'Toole to use the word "streetcar" and "subsidy" in the same sentence and technically not lie.

 

* The yield from Tax Increment Financing used to finance public improvements along the streetcar line is way, way higher than projected. In fact, the number our guest at dinner last night provided was so incredibly high I asked him to repeat it to make sure everyone fully understood what he was saying. The City reps noted it. I'm not going to put it out there -- I'll leave that to the City Manager -- but when it does come out, it will defeat the notion that the Cincinnati Streetcar would be somehow taking away money from other projects. In Portland, it's just the opposite, it's producing cash they never thought they would have.

 

Saw fewer new buildings under construction and a few holes being dug, but Portland has clearly cooled-off. At least two condos have been converted to rentals -- at prices in excess of $2.00 per square foot per month plus parking, about twice what landlords can get for the best apartment buildings here.

 

It's a good story. I'll probably lead another tour in October.

 

* The yield from Tax Increment Financing used to finance public improvements along the streetcar line is way, way higher than projected. In fact, the number our guest at dinner last night provided was so incredibly high I asked him to repeat it to make sure everyone fully understood what he was saying. The City reps noted it. I'm not going to put it out there -- I'll leave that to the City Manager -- but when it does come out, it will defeat the notion that the Cincinnati Streetcar would be somehow taking away money from other projects. In Portland, it's just the opposite, it's producing cash they never thought they would have.

 

I'm hoping people from 3CDC get this message loud and clear.  I'm guessing that is where Dohoney will come in and work his magic.  Did there happen to be any members of 3CDC along for the trip?  Has anyone from there ever gone on the trip?

Good to hear that. There was an article that mentioned that while most streetcar systems lose money -- there is no way to recoup the cost of construction with meager fares -- other derived benefits well make up for that. Property values increase dramatically along the streetcar line and near stations and hubs, and economic development occurs with new condominiums, apartments and offices.

^After just coming from Portland recently myself, I actually have more doubts about the Cincinnati streetcar than I have ever had.  While the activity around the streetcar is absolutely incredible, I think it is just a little dangerous to assume the same response will happen in Cincinnati.  I think this because the populations of these two cities are vastly, vastly different.  Portland is in the heart of the green obsessed, liberal, and yes, overwhelmingly white Pacific Northwest.  People in Portland view things a lot differently than your average citizen of Cincinnati.  Firstly, I never got the sense that people ever viewed downtown Portland negatively, and certainly never viewed it as a place for "those people" as, unfortunately many people in Cincinnati do. Downtown Cincy has a major perception problem as being a place for the poor and criminal, and I don't think Portland ever had to deal with that, as crime is very low there.  Secondly, people in Portland are green OBSESSED. It's like everyone there probably owns half of Park+Vine (I kid a little here...), but seriously, the green movement/alternative transport movement and ideology is strong and rooted in Oregen in ways that it is not in Ohio. 

 

All of that said, I still 100% support the Streetcar in Cincinnati, and think it will help the core immensly, I am just trying to say that using Portland as a model for what will happen here is a little disengenuous and naive.

many people in Cincinnati do. Downtown Cincy has a major perception problem as being a place for the poor and criminal' date='[/quote']

 

You are 100% correct, this is the view held by all the people who never come downtown. But screw them lets do it for everyone living downtown now. Everything you've said about Portland is true of most of the people downtown Cincinnati. As a matter of fact everyone I know downtown thinks its the greatest place in the world.

I think people are people and trying to say someone out west is fundamentally different than someone from the mideast is simplistic.

A couple of comments:

 

First, no one from 3CDC has ever gone to Portland on one of the Alliance's trips, but 333 other people have.

 

With respect to the posting immediately above, the expectations for the success of the Cincinnati Streetcar have been substantially discounted compared to what was achieved in Portland. In fact, if you adjust for the amount of development we expect to have here and how long it will take to achieve it compared to Portland, it will only be a fifth as much, even though the Portland and Cincinnati regions are almost identical in population and wealth.

 

All that was written above is true -- Portland is a lot greener. But here's what Portland doesn't have:

 

* The incredible wealth of historic residential buildings that Cincinnati has;

 

* A central riverfront park that isn't anywhere near as nice as what Cincinnat's will be;

 

* Two major sports teams downtown;

 

* Cheaper real estate;

 

* A larger population of college students;

 

* An all-year public market;

 

* Major national corporations.

 

Portland does have:

 

* A murder rate that's maybe one-third of Cincinnati's;

 

* A property-crime rate that's equal to or higher than Cincinnati's;

 

* No sales tax, but higher earnings taxes;

 

* Poor public schools and no prospects for improving them.

 

We take people to Portland simply because Portland has rail and looks more like Cincinnati than any other city that does have rail. Its streets are equally wide, and the downtown is confined to a valley. It has a river, but one that's not framed by green hills as Cincinnati's is. People take account of the similarities and differences and draw conclusions. And besides, the wine's good.

How long are we actually supposed to wait, before we hear back from Dohoney on whether private funding is in place?  The more time that goes by, the less confident I am that Cincinnati's going to actually get its head out if its own ass.

^There's alot more to it than you think!    Right now, I believe no news is good news!!

^There's alot more to it than you think! Right now, I believe no news is good news!!

 

I don't know.  There have been many proposed projects since I've been a Cincinnati resident (circa 1987) that never came to fruition...that just subsided and fell into oblivion.  There's a definite reason for the skepticism.

I hear ya, but this ain't your Daddy's town anymore.    They have started getting it right this decade!! :wink:

Last I heard the plan was to have funding in place by the end of the year, that's a pretty good chunk of money to round up. So the project isn't delayed or in trouble (at least not publically)

Dohoney has said that he wants to have a pretty good idea of the private financing by the end of the year.  What that means is that if Dohoney doesn't feel it's practical he'll come back to Council and tell them that.  If he does find it practical then he'll come back to Council and tell them that.

 

Since Council has already approved the financing plan that was presented to them, then I consider this to be the defining moment (when Dohoney reports back to Council).  A 'yes we can' from Dohoney and this thing is full-speed ahead...any kind of uncertainty from Dohoney will throw lots of doubt at whether the project can move forward as currently proposed.

 

You're probably not going to hear a single peep about these discussions until right before Dohoney plans to report back to Council.  I wouldn't consider this to be a good or bad sign...just let it be.  Just hold back all of those pent up anxieties until we hear from him.

I was at a breakfast on Monday with Dohoney.  It was as I understand it was the first in a series of breakfasts to 1.) Build support for the streetcar plan, educate, and get information out to a wider audience and 2.) A step in getting private funding. 

 

He also said, a report should be released very soon that was done to basically see if a third party (in this case a UC grou) agreed with the inital reports and findings of HDR AND to look at schemes for the spur up to Uptown.  He indicated they (the City) got a preview and things were favorable. He didn't elaborate. 

 

They are basically still still looking for 50-60 million (I think that was the figure - I have it back at the office) in private funds to get the downtown loop and the spur completed.

Simulation of a modern streetcar planned for Baltimore. Enjoy.

 

http://www.charlesstreet.org/trolley/index.cfm?page=simulation

I don't want to knock Baltimore, but yeah... Baltimore is good at doing transportation poorly. Very poorly. Here's hoping they can do a streetcar correctly.

40 U.S. cities looking to embrace streetcars

 

CooltownStudios talking about the romance with streetcars.

 

One significant reason why streetcars are so desirable (no pun intended) is that they’re designed to pass the 5-minute rule, as in, wait any longer than that and it quickly becomes a drag. Three advantages streetcars have over buses? They’re a lot quieter, infinitely smoother, and have shorter stops since people can board on both sides.

^ I love the Cincy spelling!!

I didn't know Tuscon had street cars. I must have been blind the last time i was there.

Yes Tucson has one; it's small and thus it isn't doing much for Tucson but it's expanding right now for that very reason. They call it a trolley, btw.

This just happened...

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/08/my-response.html

This just happened...

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/08/my-response.html

 

Good comeback, and I LOVE the new heading.