January 22, 200817 yr ^---Sure that's not dust? Maybe they should propose a giant Ionic Breeze air purifier! lol
January 22, 200817 yr Reminds me of a Dave Chapelle skit when he said "they should have never gave you #$%^az money!" I guess statistically it gives them an incredible amount of coast line but I don't see how you could consider your house being on a "beach" when your sand-lot is no bigger than your house. It looks tacky and far too engineered, yet its some of the most prime real estate in the world!
January 22, 200817 yr ^---But it sure looks cool from the air though! I guess that's what is important..... ...NOT!
January 23, 200817 yr Maybe they should propose a giant Ionic Breeze air purifier! lol There's a cheat to do that in SimCity4...so I don't see why you couldn't apply that same technology here. :wink2:
January 23, 200817 yr ^---haha! Are you serious? I've never even played SimCity! Guess I will have to check it out now.
January 23, 200817 yr ^---haha! Are you serious? I've never even played SimCity! Guess I will have to check it out now. Here it is actively cleansing the air...
January 23, 200817 yr One of my colleagues just got back from Dubai--hated it! She is from Cincy by the way, but left there many years ago. The whole skyscraper boom there is built on the back of slave labor--the workers live in substandard dormitories, earn very little, often nothing due to corruption, and have absolutely no workers' rights. Other than that it's paradise. Her opinion was "a f*cking shopping mall in the desert". It was too hot to go outside during the day, the women are covered from head to foot in black burkas, and only about 10% of the population is native (i.e. have any constitutional rights). Quite a few people I know have travelled there. All are amazed by the buildings, but I have yet to hear that it is a nice place. It is excess simply for excess sake. The company I work for is building there, but no one wants to transfer there--no booze, hotter than the hinges of hell and too far from "fun". Time to get off my soapbox. Looks impressive and the palm islands are amazing. Would I want to live there? Not on your life. Give me urban squalor any day.
January 23, 200817 yr ^---Hence the buildings will become giant vacant monoliths in 20 years. Dubai will not be able to support this kind of infrastructure. I believe Dubai's metro population is less than Cincinnati's. I don't know the exact count, don't have time to look it up. Maybe 2.5 mil?
January 23, 200817 yr ^---Hence the buildings will become giant vacant monoliths in 20 years. 20 years...I've heard that most of nearly empty now.
February 7, 200817 yr Off Wikipedia As of 5 February 2008, Burj Dubai has reached a height of 604.9 m (1,985 ft), with 159 completed floors.[6] Burj Dubai's last two milestones will be to surpass the 628.8 m (2,063 ft) height of the KVLY-TV Mast in North Dakota, United States to become the world's tallest structure and to pass the Warsaw radio mast in Gąbin, Poland (646.4 m (2,121 ft) until it collapsed in 1991) to become the world's tallest structure of any type ever built. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai I love this line in the story: July 21, 2007 Burj Dubai becomes the tallest building on Earth surpassing Taipei 101 which stands at a height of 509.2 m (1,671 ft).[6] The previous day, the head of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH), Antony Wood, had confirmed that it "surpassed the height of Taipei 101 structurally (concrete)." [8] However, he also added "We will not classify it as a building until it is complete, clad and at least partially open for business to avoid things like the Ryungyong [sic] project. Taipei 101 is thus officially the world's tallest until that happens." Here's what he's talking about: :laugh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel
February 7, 200817 yr I would be afraid to step inside a building in Pyongyang. Aside from the height, I do think the Burj is by far the best design compared to the other tallest buildings in the world.
February 7, 200817 yr I would be afraid to step inside a building in Pyongyang. Aside from the height, I do think the Burj is by far the best design compared to the other tallest buildings in the world. Ryugyong is pretty much an empty shell. It doesn't even have windows. It is to skyscrapers what Kim Jong Il is to statesmen. "Aside from the height"? That's what makes it an engineering marvel. It's final planned height is secret to scotch competitors (shades of William Van Alen and the Chrysler Building) but is widely believed to be over 2,600 feet. That would break the old record by over 50%. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I see that sort of triumph over physics and nature as a worthy goal for its own sake.
February 7, 200817 yr And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. 4 And they said, Come, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children builded. 6 And the Lord said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them." 7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
February 7, 200817 yr Tall buildings are for people who haven't made it to the concrete operational stage of cognitive development. Take a wide but short glass of milk and put it in front of a small child. Then pour it into a tall narrow glass of the same volume. The child will think that there's more milk in the tall narrow glass despite the law of conservation and seeing the same milk poured into the new glass.
February 7, 200817 yr Tall buildings are for people who haven't made it to the concrete operational stage of cognitive development. Take a wide but short glass of milk and put it in front of a small child. Then pour it into a tall narrow glass of the same volume. The child will think that there's more milk in the tall narrow glass despite the law of conservation and seeing the same milk poured into the new glass. Well, the sprawl haters here will comment that the tall glass will take up less room on the table, but of all people here I can't claim to be one of them. :evil: Though I can comment on the benefits of using all three dimensions in a small apartment or office.... So I'll just point out that gravity is much more of a challenge where tall buildings are concerned (vis a vis spread out buildings), and when man can expand the possible where height is concerned, it increases our options.
February 7, 200817 yr ^---Sure that's not dust? Maybe they should propose a giant Ionic Breeze air purifier! lol You may end up feeling like us conservatives do when we jokingly "suggest" something that seems outlandish to us, only to end up seeing someone seriously propose it to us. 8-) If the only constraint is energy input.....if it can happen anywhere it will be Dubai.
February 7, 200817 yr Tall buildings are for people who haven't made it to the concrete operational stage of cognitive development. Take a wide but short glass of milk and put it in front of a small child. Then pour it into a tall narrow glass of the same volume. The child will think that there's more milk in the tall narrow glass despite the law of conservation and seeing the same milk poured into the new glass. Well, the sprawl haters here will comment that the tall glass will take up less room on the table, but of all people here I can't claim to be one of them. :evil: Though I can comment on the benefits of using all three dimensions in a small apartment or office.... So I'll just point out that gravity is much more of a challenge where tall buildings are concerned (vis a vis spread out buildings), and when man can expand the possible where height is concerned, it increases our options. I'm all about efficiency. What good are tall towers if they're not being occupied? As someone else put it, many of these buildings are verticle sprawl. Look what happend to Miami. I don't like sprawl either but I don't like it because with population growth aside, it's occurs to the detriment of currently existing infrastructure. From a sociological standpoint, we have learned nothing from Le Corbusier. Like I said, what we think is great now, we will look back on in 50 years with shame. The bigger the building is, the more it is it's own isolated single entity. There's less reason for interaction with other elements in the urban environment and the outside world is less inviting because it's a b!tch to get out of there. Unfortunately it's so God damn hot in UAE no one in their right mind would want to step outside and walk somewhere.
February 7, 200817 yr I'm all about efficiency. What good are tall towers if they're not being occupied? As someone else put it, many of these buildings are verticle sprawl. Look what happend to Miami. I don't like sprawl either but I don't like it because with population growth aside, it's occurs to the detriment of currently existing infrastructure. From a sociological standpoint, we have learned nothing from Le Corbusier. Like I said, what we think is great now, we will look back on in 50 years with shame. The bigger the building is, the more it is it's own isolated single entity. There's less reason for interaction with other elements in the urban environment and the outside of the building is less inviting because it's a b!tch to get out of there. Unfortunately it's so God damn hot in UAE no one in their right mind would want to step outside and walk somewhere. Perhaps I'm just about pushing the edges. But could the heat in Dubai have anything to do with building such large, enclosed, and presumably air conditioned structures. Perhaps it's more about the ego of the developers than it is about efficiency. But I'd maintain that a world based solely on "efficiency" wouldn't be such a great place. After all, it would have been more efficient for Emperor Shah Jahan to bury his favorite wife in a simply marked grave....but I would maintain that the world is a better place because he did not.
February 7, 200817 yr Perhaps it's more about the ego of the developers than it is about efficiency. Bingo! After all, it would have been more efficient for Emperor Shah Jahan to bury his favorite wife in a simply marked grave....but I would maintain that the world is a better place because he did not. If only he could've kept his mits off his daughter. Yecch!
February 7, 200817 yr Author Perhaps it's more about the ego of the developers than it is about efficiency. Bingo! no, but close....pinga! :laugh:
February 20, 200817 yr Here we were thinking that Minnesota's next-gen St. Anthony Falls Bridge was kicking up the next generation of mega engineering a notch from even the quake-proof Bay Bridge Skyway. But leave it to Dubai to build it way harder, faster and stronger—or, at least in the case of this newly approved design from New York's Fxfowle architects, way cooler. As if the Burj Dubai tower wasn't already taking the worldwide skyscraper race to new heights, this as-yet-unnamed span will be the world's largest arch bridge, with 2000 vehicles set to cross its 12 lanes—per hour, in each direction—when it's slated for completion in 2012. At 670 ft. tall, Dubai's next super structure will stand higher than the George Washington Bridge (604 ft.) but fall short of San Francisco's existing Golden Gate Bridge (746 ft.). IMAGE: http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/473/fxfowledubaiarchqn2.jpg
February 20, 200817 yr I would have interest in seeing Dubai, but only for the broad range of architecture it currently is building. Other than that, I have no interest in the city itself. The thing that drives me nuts is the fact they seem to have no problem building this type of stuff. Must be nice to have the funds for a bridge of this type to be built. Someone send the money our way, so we can rebuild Spence! ;-)
February 20, 200817 yr I think I have no interest in seeing it because the picutres tell me all I need to know about the architecture. I like to visit cities to really experience them...and I can tell I wouldn't enjoy the experience there. By the way, I think much of the architecture is cooler when seen from overhead than in person anyways.
February 20, 200817 yr This bridge is being built over water 10 feet deep with no commercial shipping. There's absolutely no functional need for a bridge with a long clear span in this location. The only totally uneccessary bridge I know of built recently here is the Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Memorial Bridge carrying I-93 over the Charles River. It was built as part of the Big Dig project so some kind of landmark could come of a mostly underground project. Right next to it are several typical deck girder bridges since there is no commercial shipping past that spot. A $100 million waste. Here you can see the parallel ordinary bridge crossing the exact same piece of water with the exact same conditions but without all the cable-stayed foo-foo:
February 20, 200817 yr I'd rather just see the pictures and models, they tell enough of a story for me. I'm also inclined to believe these structures will be vacant in due time, and yes maybe some could end up exactly like Ryu-Gyong.
February 20, 200817 yr ^Exactly. Someone said send the money this way, well you sent the money that way.
February 20, 200817 yr I'd rather just see the pictures and models, they tell enough of a story for me. I'm also inclined to believe these structures will be vacant in due time, and yes maybe some could end up exactly like Ryu-Gyong. A lot are already vacant. I'm assuming that the leaders of Dubai are still letting this mess continue because they feel when all is said and done, it will bring more tourism and industry to the city??
February 21, 200817 yr >Dubai- Your gas dollars at work! Actually it's Europe's. The U.S. only imports 15% of the oil it uses from the Middle East, with most of that being Saudi Arabia. It's possible that hardly any oil from the UAE has ever made its way to the U.S.
February 21, 200817 yr http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/story.php?artid=3058 Skyline of Tomorrow from Metropolis Magazine
February 21, 200817 yr Twice as high as Burj Dubai by Talal Malik on Thursday, 21 February 2008 A Middle Eastern real estate company have asked British firm Hyder Consulting to design a structure that will be twice as tall as the Burj Dubai - making it the world's tallest tower. Speaking at a construction forum in Abu Dhabi last week, Andy Davids, Hyder Consulting's director of structures, told newswire MEED that the tower would be located in the Middle East region. Contacted by ArabianBusiness.com on Thursday, Hyder Consulting's design and structures team did not provide any further details on the project. Hyder has been working on Emaar Properties' Burj Dubai, currently the world's tallest structure being built in Dubai and scheduled to be completed by the end of 2008... Full and high-resolution photos of Burj Dubai past the 600-metre mark can be found on photos section of The World Exclusive... http://www.arabianbusiness.com/511909-twice-as-high-as-burj-dubai?ln=en
February 21, 200817 yr Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures?
March 3, 200817 yr Author hang on -- here we go again.....from curbed blog :-o Eye on Dubai: Koolhaas Brings Manhattan to Mid East Monday, March 3, 2008, by Joey http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/2409/2307262233_bb020408df_o.jpg http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/2044/2308067980_6287b131c3_o.jpg http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3210/2308068016_1f1603c759_o.jpg http://curbednetwork.com/cache/gallery/3129/2307266513_bbe566eef5_o.jpg #5 on this map represents the future home of the Waterfront project Dubai developer Nakheel has already gifted us with those man-made islands in the shape of the world, as well as the wheel-shaped hotel. Those bits of insanity were just appetizers. The Times' Nicolai Ouroussoff has the reveal on Nakheel's Waterfront, a plan that will transform a bunch of desert and the last 15 kilometers of natural Dubai coastline into a 1.4-billion-square-foot mixed-use development with 250 master-planned communities and a population of 1.5 million. Waterfront City, one of five Waterfront phases, is being designed by starchitect Rem Koolhaas and his Office for Metropolitan Architecture. The island, though it may not look it, is a 25-block slice of Manhattan created just for the Middle East. Confused? · City on the Gulf: Koolhaas Lays Out a Grand Urban Experiment in Dubai [NYT] · Waterfront [Nakheel] MORE AT: http://curbed.com/archives/2008/03/03/eye_on_dubai_koolhaas_brings_manhattan_to_mid_east.php?o=2
March 3, 200817 yr Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures? I agree. How wide will these buildings have to be in order to reach so high? What will this do for street life (who would want to go outside in that heat anyways???
March 3, 200817 yr Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures? I agree. How wide will these buildings have to be in order to reach so high? What will this do for street life (who would want to go outside in that heat anyways??? Has Shanghai, Hong Kong, New York or any other World cities have any problems filling space? I'm not disagreeing with any of you, just throwing that question out there. Dubai is obviously trying to become a world city. The oil money is letting them do that right now and they are planning for the future when the oil dies down. I think this city will be successful and maintain it's status of a world city. If you look around that area, there is nothing but sand. This is an oasis for the people of that region to go to. A growing city that size will obviously have all the opportunities and infrastructures needed to keep itself alive and growing.
March 3, 200817 yr yeah, sorry, i noticed that after I had posted...they can create go-cart tracks :lol:
March 4, 200817 yr Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures? I agree. How wide will these buildings have to be in order to reach so high? What will this do for street life (who would want to go outside in that heat anyways??? Has Shanghai, Hong Kong, New York or any other World cities have any problems filling space? I'm not disagreeing with any of you, just throwing that question out there. Dubai is obviously trying to become a world city. The oil money is letting them do that right now and they are planning for the future when the oil dies down. I think this city will be successful and maintain it's status of a world city. If you look around that area, there is nothing but sand. This is an oasis for the people of that region to go to. A growing city that size will obviously have all the opportunities and infrastructures needed to keep itself alive and growing. New York, Shanghai and Hong Kong are world class financial markets with metro populations surpassing 15 million each. Dubai is not a world financial power and only boasts a 1.4 mil population, smaller than all of Ohio's 3 C's metro populations. This is why I think Dubai is going to have a tough time filling these structures. Even if people and business do come in record numbers, it's going to take 20 years just to fill what they have now...not too mention I think everyone is going to need to own a camel as a backup vehicle in that desert heat!
March 4, 200817 yr ^i completely agree with you. itll be an interesting study for the next 10-15 years. who knows what will happen. with the tough religious laws and codes it will be hard for many "western" types of activities to take place, but I do think that slowly, the western ideas will begin to take off in Dubai within the next 5 years, especially if they wish to succeed. Here is wikitravel.com's page on Dubai. http://wikitravel.org/en/Dubai
March 4, 200817 yr I am also concerned about them building this on the wealth of oil...especially at a time when the U.S. and a lot of other countries in the world are starting to realize the evils of oil and are looking for more energy alternatives?
March 4, 200817 yr I am also concerned about them building this on the wealth of oil...especially at a time when the U.S. and a lot of other countries in the world are starting to realize the evils of oil and are looking for more energy alternatives? uh guys, Oil and Natural Gas only accounts for about 5% of their GDP (which yes, is still huge, but it isn't like >50%) For the UAE as a whole, its closer to 30% (CIA Factbook) well wouldn't be the first time i posted this.
March 4, 200817 yr Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures? I agree. How wide will these buildings have to be in order to reach so high? What will this do for street life (who would want to go outside in that heat anyways??? Based on my calculations for a conservative design, and making soil conditions negligable, approximately 387.1' wide on all four sides assuming a square base.
March 4, 200817 yr Author Ok. Now I'll even admit this is getting re-friggin-diculous. What are they going to do with these buildings when they cannot fill the vacant space? Turn them into gigantic monuments of building failures? I agree. How wide will these buildings have to be in order to reach so high? What will this do for street life (who would want to go outside in that heat anyways??? Based on my calculations for a conservative design, and making soil conditions negligable, approximately 387.1' wide on all four sides assuming a square base. speaking of soil conditions, i wonder what that is like? how much sand do they have to dig out before they reach bedrock? anyone know? i know because they have to dig down pretty far to reach bedrock anchors that it is an expensive problem for building skyscapers back in the cleve.
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