Ranking Ohio's County Seats

 

Just posted on MyHometownOhio -- original story link: http://myhometownohio.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2009/4/22/4161153.html

 

Some time ago, a member of an online forum compiled the following list of several of Ohio’s county seat towns, arranged by classification on how each respects and preserves its own built history.  While you may agree or not agree with some of the selections made (nor do we at Preservation Ohio necessarily agree with them), it nevertheless provides an interesting point of discussion.

 

Super County Seats:  Super County Seats have largely intact historic resources, have a strong preservation ethic (or at least one strong preservation project underway and which may include a preservation-based downtown revitalization program), convey a strong sense of place, have a downtown adjacent to one or more intact historic residential districts, are highly unique and potentially regionally or nationally important.

 

Greenville

Mount Vernon

Delaware

Circleville

Norwalk

Troy

Hillsboro

McConnelsville

Great County Seats:  All of the above, but with one or more major issues that put it into this “near-miss” category.

 

Lancaster

Marietta

Ashland

Bowling Green

Sidney

Mount Gilead

Millersburg

Lisbon

Good County Seats:  These county seats have significant historic resources, however there is a preservation challenge(s) which is(are) significant and affects the ability to convey a sense of place.  In the majority of these communities, it is an issue of “missing teeth” in streetscapes, the lack of a preservation ordinance or strong ethic that has resulted in several critical losses, or a general lack of maintenance or revitalization.  A few of these could make their way up to the next level (particularly those marked with asterisks).

 

Chillicothe*

Medina

Urbana*

Hamilton*

Tiffin (* provided the Courthouse remains)

Van Wert*

Bellefontaine

Wooster*

Kenton*

London

Athens

Warren*

Washington CH

Fremont

Marysville*

Mansfield

Marion

Lima*

New Philadelphia*

Upper Sandusky*

Jefferson

Steubenville

 

Others:  So much has been lost that a sense of place is difficult to convey, and no significant efforts are underway to change that fact (or just, in fact, too late).

 

Bucyrus

Springfield

Painesville

 

What do you think?  Are these classifications correct? Useful?  Where does your county seat town fit in this mix?

 

 

I think Painesville deserves a little more respect than the Others category. They still have some nice buildings and a park on their square, as well as some restored buildings housing shops on Main St. They also still have some nice old residential areas.

 

I would also place Chardon on the list. In my opinion, it is comparable to Medina (a quaint center of town surrounded by hot suburban mess).

 

Both are nicer than Jefferson.

Last time I checked, Kent was not the county seat - that would be Ravenna.

What do the asterisks mean?

Not vouching for the accuracy of the info (e.g., Kent) -- I simply re-posted what was there.  I do think that I will take Kent off the list, however.  The asterisk is mentioned in the description of "Good County Seats."

Thanks.  I guess I need to read better. :)

Well, I couldn’t be more proud that my hometown of Painesville made it on the list. Dead last, yes, but I won’t take it personally! LOL. I knew Painesville had major problems dating back to my childhood—the 60’s—from which it has never fully recovered, but I didn’t think it was that bad. At the risk of being accused of slander, I believe most of those problems can largely be traced to the legacy of the city manager back then, Dale Helsel (http://www.kent.edu/cpapp/AboutUs/upload/DaleHelselVita2.pdf). As anyone growing up in America during that time can remember, this was a period when older cities and towns were being abandoned en masse in favor of suburbia, and it was in the 60’s when Painesville’s once thriving downtown retail center became the victim of the arrival of a large regional mall in next door, rapidly growing Mentor; and if I remember correctly it was Helsel—in an effort to reverse this decline—who spearheaded the failed urban renewal scheme which decimated downtown—leveling blocks of century-old buildings and leaving in its wake nothing of much value both architecturally or commercially. There are now efforts underway to reverse this—again, maybe a matter of “too little too late.” Below is a press release by the Downtown Painesville Organization in respect to an application to the “Main Street” program (and yes, jam40jeff, you are correct. There are some beautiful old buildings--both old churches and government buildings on the park downtown; and well as an historic district of homes dating back to the mid-1800's--Italiante, Greek Revival, etc, in the area along Mentor Avenue near Lake Erie College, so I too question the fairness of this list):

 

PRESS RELEASE 

Monday February 23, 2009 

 

Downtown Painesville Applies to ‘Main Street’ Program 

 

There has been a lot of discussion about what Washington can do to help Main Street, but one local group is taking a more direct, hands‐on approach.  The Downtown Painesville Organization is working to revitalize Lake County’s historic seat via the Main Street Approach, a grassroots method to implement historic preservation  and economic development in traditional downtowns.  This month the group applied to the Ohio Main Street Program.  They hope to be accepted into the program in the spring. 

 

“There’s no quick fix to revitalize a historic downtown,” says Fred Pollutro, owner of Pollutro‐Rossley Insurance and a board member of the Downtown Painesville Organization. “The Main Street Program offers a 

comprehensive, long‐term strategy for us to preserve our historic buildings and inject new life into our downtown economy.” 

 

The Downtown Painesville Organization was founded in 2007.  This is the group’s second time applying to the Ohio Main Street Program.  They nearly made it in 2008. 

 

“We came so close last year,” explains Pollutro.  “We’re pretty confident this year.  We’ve grown as an organization and accomplished quite a bit.  We hired our first executive director, implemented downtown beautification projects, dramatically expanded our neighborhood marketing efforts, and partnered with the city and other stakeholders to develop a downtown master plan.” 

 

Since 1980, thousands of communities throughout the nation have applied the incremental Main Street approach to revitalization, building upon gradual improvements and successes to sustain lasting change. The Main Street Program has gained wide credibility as a powerful economic development strategy.  For every dollar invested into an Ohio Main Street Program, more than 22 dollars are reinvested in downtown 

improvements by business owners, developers, and government. 

 

“The Main Street Program serves as a catalyst in downtown neighborhoods,” explains Doug Nagy, the group’s executive director.  “Downtown Painesville is a great neighborhood and everyone is passionate about seeing our effort succeed.  We have received a ton of support from community institutions such as the Painesville Community Improvement Corporation, Lake Erie College, Lake Hospitals, Lubrizol, Painesville Rotary, and the City of Painesville. 

 

More information on Downtown Painesville and the group’s efforts is available at 

www.downtownpainesville.org.

 

 

Thanks for the info, EVD.  I figured a fair amount of downtown Painesville had to have been torn down, judging by the amount of 1960s building mixed into the urban fabric (which is probably larger than many people realize).  As far as the list goes, any list that puts Jefferson at the level of Painesville, let alone ahead of it, has not been very thoroughly investigated.  It would be one thing if they just forgot about Painesville (as it seems they did with Chardon), but to intentionally place it BELOW Jefferson is confusing.

Thanks for the info, EVD.  I figured a fair amount of downtown Painesville had to have been torn down, judging by the amount of 1960s building mixed into the urban fabric (which is probably larger than many people realize).  As far as the list goes, any list that puts Jefferson at the level of Painesville, let alone ahead of it, has not been very thoroughly investigated.  It would be one thing if they just forgot about Painesville (as it seems they did with Chardon), but to intentionally place it BELOW Jefferson is confusing.

 

 

 

geez, you're right. I just checked out a photo thread on Jefferson and it looks like a real dump (kidding!! :|)

 

I never said it was a dump, but it sure doesn't have anything as nice as Painesville's square, Main St., or the area around LEC.

Last time I checked, Kent was not the county seat - that would be Ravenna.

 

I didn't even see Kent on the list. I saw Kenton, which is the seat of Hardin County.

 

Three of my earlier newspaper jobs were in Painesville, Bucyrus and Springfield -- the three at the bottom of the list. All have great potential and still have a lot of good stuff there, but have lost far more than they should.

 

As for Painesville, I lived there in early 1979 while working for the Lake County News-Herald. I was embarked on a three-part series looking at the history of the downtown, the redevelopment issues facing downtown at that time (shortly after construction of the downtown "New Market Mall") and a look to the future. The editor killed the project, saying "People don't want to read history in the newspaper." I quit that job a short time later.

^that's funny. Although I was no longer in Painesville in 1979, I imagine by that point people were so sick, tired and demoralized by the "redevelopment" of downtown that they just wanted to stick their collective heads in the sand and not have to be reminded about how lifeless and depressed it had become from just a decade earlier. I don't know if the News-Herald had a Painesville office, but you must have just missed the glory days of the Telegraph, which had been the Painesville paper since the mid-1800's (located on S. State St. near Nemeth's Lounge :drunk:). I think it went under in the mid-70's??...

^ Telegraph went under in the early or mid-80s, after I left. I was in the Painesville bureau, which was on the lower level of the then-new New Market Mall on the square. We went head-to-head against the Telegraph, which employed several of my recent OSU classmates. I lived about a long block west of the square on Mentor Ave. in an old, frame Italianate home that had been subdivided into too many tiny studio apartments.

 

I drank only occasionally at Nemeth's; more often at the Brass Rail, and at a place called the Wine Rack (or Cellar, or something), just north of downtown, with an old round bar. Loved to eat at the Depot, northeast of downtown -- the old train station, turned into an Italian joint.

Loved to eat at the Depot, northeast of downtown -- the old train station, turned into an Italian joint.

 

When you started mentioning places to eat and drink around Painesville, The Depot came to my mind even before you mentioned it. It's a pretty good place. Isn't it actually in an old house across the street from the old train station on Depot St.?

 

It's a shame that more of the homes west of downtown haven't been restored. I think a lot of people would be surprised at some of the grand Victorian homes still standing in Painesville.  Also, LEC itself has some very nice buildings.

 

It's too bad there is not rail service in Painesville, as I feel that could help fuel renovation efforts and infill projects to make it a nice little satellite town rather than relying on being a bedroom suburb of Cleveland (mainly the township).

I like the structure of the rankings, but some of the choices I would debate. Southeast, Ohio is sorely missing. Pomeroy, Athens, Gallipolis, etc. would all rank highly (although Gallipolis has courthouse issues).

I find it disappointing that we tend to overlook large cities that serve as county seats, particularly as many of these cities have larger volumes of historical stock, buildings that are (arguably) of greater historic importance at a national level and have among the most robust programs for designating, preserving and renovating historic sites. Not that there's anything wrong with highlighting the wonderful amenities of Ohio towns or providing an apple-versus-versus comparison. I just think it's a shame that we tend to segregate out big cities when we talk about historic preservation.

I think the reason for this is that there are strong historic preservation efforts in most large Ohio cities, but the small ones sometimes do not have a large base for this.  So this website seems to be trying to collectively form a base of preservationalists for these small towns.

That's understandable. And again, not trying to thumb my nose at the effort ... which is an important one.

Loved to eat at the Depot, northeast of downtown -- the old train station, turned into an Italian joint.

 

When you started mentioning places to eat and drink around Painesville, The Depot came to my mind even before you mentioned it.  It's a pretty good place.  Isn't it actually in an old house across the street from the old train station on Depot St.?

 

It's a shame that more of the homes west of downtown haven't been restored.  I think a lot of people would be surprised at some of the grand Victorian homes still standing in Painesville.  Also, LEC itself has some very nice buildings.

 

It's too bad there is not rail service in Painesville, as I feel that could help fuel renovation efforts and infill projects to make it a nice little satellite town rather than relying on being a bedroom suburb of Cleveland (mainly the township).

 

 

"When you started mentioning places to eat and drink around Painesville, The Depot came to my mind even before you mentioned it.  It's a pretty good place.  Isn't it actually in an old house across the street from the old train station on Depot St.?"

 

"I drank only occasionally at Nemeth's; more often at the Brass Rail, and at a place called the Wine Rack (or Cellar, or something), just north of downtown, with an old round bar. Loved to eat at the Depot, northeast of downtown -- the old train station, turned into an Italian joint."

 

You’re right, I think the Depot restaurant is not actually in the old train depot but in a house. I believe a former classmate of mine—Jerry Silvestro—is the owner/operator of the place now. And it appears Nemeth’s, judging by their rather..uhhh…colorful website, has emerged from its blue collar roots (I remember a bunch of Nemeths in the school system) into a some sort of raucous alternative rock venue: http://nemethslounge.tripod.com/

 

"It's too bad there is not rail service in Painesville, as I feel that could help fuel renovation efforts and infill projects to make it a nice little satellite town rather than relying on being a bedroom suburb of Cleveland (mainly the township)."

 

This is probably frustrating for passengers who take the train from Buffalo and would like to get off in Painesville! At one time—going back a hundred years—there was streetcar service running from Cleveland to Painesville and beyond. In fact, even service from Painesville to Fairport Harbor. There was an infamous incident I remember reading about (though I could find nothing about online) in which a streetcar crossing the Saint Clair Street bridge plunged into the Grand River.

 

Throw McArthur on that list! :shoot:

I'm surpirsed Medina, OH didn't rank higher.  The square itself is in tack and the historical nature of the buildings has been maintained quite nicely. 

I like the structure of the rankings, but some of the choices I would debate. Southeast, Ohio is sorely missing. Pomeroy, Athens, Gallipolis, etc. would all rank highly (although Gallipolis has courthouse issues).

 

You're right about SE Ohio. I was in Pomeroy, Gallipolis and Jackson today (bringing my Ohio courthouse collection to 79 of 88). Of the three, Pomeroy was my favorite. A unique courthouse in setting and design, with an odd yet prominent place downtown. The downtown is surprisingly vibrant -- not as many vacant storefronts as one might expect in Appalachia in a recession (though the woman behind the bar at the Court Grill said it takes a while for chronically depressed SE Ohio to know there is a recession) -- and there is interesting architecture and few vacant lots or surface-parking lots. I'll post pics in a day or two.

If anyone ever step foot into the Clinton County Courthouse, it would definitely be on this list. One of the most awe-inspiring interiors I have been in.

^ Telegraph went under in the early or mid-80s, after I left. I was in the Painesville bureau, which was on the lower level of the then-new New Market Mall on the square. We went head-to-head against the Telegraph, which employed several of my recent OSU classmates. I lived about a long block west of the square on Mentor Ave. in an old, frame Italianate home that had been subdivided into too many tiny studio apartments.

 

I drank only occasionally at Nemeth's; more often at the Brass Rail, and at a place called the Wine Rack (or Cellar, or something), just north of downtown, with an old round bar. Loved to eat at the Depot, northeast of downtown -- the old train station, turned into an Italian joint.

 

you mentioned the gone-but-not-forgotten Brass Rail? No need to tell anyone if you're in this pic. definitely the 70's (not that you could tell)--lol

Nope. I'm not there. Ah, the 70's. I miss plaid bell-bottoms. Bummer, man. Thanks for this blast from the past.

I don't think some of those people in the pic are 21 ;)

I don't think some of those people in the pic are 21 ;)

 

3.2 beer was legal at 18 back then.  :)

 

Chardon's great, Ravenna is horrible.  I have worked in both towns.

 

 

I don't think some of those people in the pic are 21 ;)

I went back to look at the comments on the facebook page where I found this photo. It's from a yearbook from my high school(!) four years after I graduated, so I doubt these kids are even 18, let alone 21. Little wonder my alma mater doesn't have the most stellar reputation :drunk:

 

 

 

3.2 beer was legal at 18 back then.  :)

 

Chardon's great, Ravenna is horrible.  I have worked in both towns.

 

 

who can forget 3.2 beer? when did they stop that anyway?

I'm wondering how Celina didn't even make the list at all?  If I'm not mistaken they were successful in obtaining the Main Street Grant/Program back in 2009 or 2010 and have completely restored their downtown streets and infrastructure.  Furthermore, have retained grants to allow the business/building owners to make restorations as well.  In the past 6 years more than 50% of the storefronts and buildings have been refurbished to their former glory.  With the ongoing work on the boardwalk, and the clearing out of a lake front trailer park recently to make way for a multiphase lake front park downtown, I don't understand how this isn't list worthy.  Just my thoughts though, perhaps its a lack of people truly visiting the smaller towns of western Ohio.

I don't think some of those people in the pic are 21 ;)

I went back to look at the comments on the facebook page where I found this photo. It's from a yearbook from my high school(!) four years after I graduated, so I doubt these kids are even 18, let alone 21. Little wonder my alma mater doesn't have the most stellar reputation :drunk:

 

 

 

3.2 beer was legal at 18 back then.  :)

 

Chardon's great, Ravenna is horrible.  I have worked in both towns.

 

 

who can forget 3.2 beer? when did they stop that anyway?

 

1982 sometime.  Maybe even late 1981.    Not long after I turned 19 as it was.  I was able to drink 3.2 at 18 (not that we usually did), and legally drink regular beer at 19 and a couple months.

 

Then the feds blackmailed the states into raising beer to 21 and Ohio did so, even though a referendum to do exactly that lost 2-1.  My brother just missed the grandfathering date.

3.2 was all we could buy ourselves, so that's what we bought!

 

When we weren't buying we went for the harder stuff:

 

"Hop'n Gator Beer was put on the market by the Pittsburgh Brewing Company in 1969. It was developed by Dr. Robert Cade who also invented Gatorade. Hop'n Gator Beer was a mixture of beer and Gatorade with about 25% more alcohol content than standard beers."

 

Other than the square, chardon zoning places no emphasis on historic preservation or even on new builds that embrace the historic fabric of the town.  Anymore, they just build banks with phony-baloney cupolas atop and claim its a nod to the past.

Hamilton, Butler County  - is certainly doing a lot to improve its downtown. Very deserving of its *. Its literally restoring its downtown block by block. Well worth a visit, especially after its craft brewery opens up later this year.