America's Most Dangerous Cities

Zack O'Malley Greenburg, 04.23.09, 6:00 PM ET

 

 

In March 2008, Kwame Kilpatrick was charged with eight felonies, including perjury and obstruction of justice. In August, he violated his bail agreement and was thrown in jail. His actions were deplorable for anybody, but Kilpatrick was no Average Joe--he was the mayor of Detroit.

 

Unfortunately for the Motor City, Kilpatrick, 38, is just one ripple in the area's sea of crime. Detroit is the worst offender on our list of America's most dangerous cities, thanks to a staggering rate of 1,220 violent crimes committed per 100,000 people...

 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/106978/America's-Most-Dangerous-Cities

 

The LIST

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/most-dangerous-cities-lifestyle-real-estate-dangerous-american-cities_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000

 

 

No surprise with Memphis and Detroit. I'm surprised St. Louis and ATL didn't make it.

we couldn't at least get an honorable mention?

No surprise with Memphis and Detroit. I'm surprised St. Louis and ATL didn't make it.

 

they were probably 16/17.  ::) ::)

 

Although most Forbes list are a joke (why do you folks continue to post them? ) you notice how most the majority of these cities are in the "sun belt".  Places that don't have a diverse economy and/or where unemployment and foreclosure rates are sky high.

Forbes' lists are usually crap, but I think this one uses a fair methodology.

^Funny you say that, because I think Ohio cities have made this list in the past, and everyone on here complained about the methodology and how these lists mean nothing.  If the Forbes lists really are to be dismissed, let's not just say that for the ones that slam Ohio.

I believe the ones that were dismissed only used city proper statistics.  We all have always pushed for "apples to apples" statistics of things like poverty and crime.  MSA comparisons are about the closest thing we get to that.

^Funny you say that, because I think Ohio cities have made this list in the past, and everyone on here complained about the methodology and how these lists mean nothing.  If the Forbes lists really are to be dismissed, let's not just say that for the ones that slam Ohio.

 

Forbes is crap.  I've never given them a pass.  Again, why are their "lists" even posted?

Although they are crap...and as much as  a hate to say....people and media pay attention to them.  Perception of an area is sometimes bigger than the reality of things.

Although they are crap...and as much as  a hate to say....people and media pay attention to them.  Perception of an area is sometimes bigger than the reality of things.

 

Then why are we posting this crap, specifically, here.

Normally, I think their lists are crap because they use general wording to make claims which aren't really supported by the data used to make the list.  The underlying data is usually valid however.  If they say Top 15 Happy Place cities and then use crime rate to rank them, you can argue that has nothing to do with a city being the most Happy Place.  However, you can use the crime rate data for what it's worth.  In this study, they rank cities based on MSA violent crime rate.  I didn't even read the wording of the slides, but they do provide violent crime rates of the MSAs which you can use to compare the metros objectively (or at least moreso than simply comparing central city violent crime rates, or subjective things like "happiness factors" or whatever else they have used for other lists).

This list includes the MSA, which significantly changes things, especially for Cleveland. Like I always say, Cleveland may be poor and dangerous in some parts of the city, but when you throw in all the weathly suburbs, it's one of the wealthier and safer metropolitan region's. Just imagine what Hunting Valley, Bratenahl, and Gates Mills alone do to the GDP. Now, as for crime level, yeah, add 50,000 in Lakewood, 90,000 in Parma, and 100,000 on the inner east rings, and you added 250,000 to the MSA, but probably no more than 1 homicide. Whereas in Cleveland, there are usually 100-130 homicides for 450,000. Major stats change, yet, I concur, Forbes is still crap. Add in places like Mentor with 50,000, Strongsville, another 50,000 and before you know it, you have over a million people with almost the same homicide and brutal crime count as with Cleveland by itself. This study looked specifically at homicides and 3 other criteria of similar nature.

According to their methodology, Detroit is almost *twice* as dangerous as #15 Philadelphia. 

 

 

 

Equally alarming, in both Detroit and Memphis (MSAs), more violent crimes affect more than 1 of every 100 residents (excepting, of course, that some people are likely victims of multiple violent crimes). I think that 1% is a bit of a psychological dividing line. It is hard to think of 700 of every 100,000, but 1 of every 90 sounds a little more like "something that could happen to you), even if statistically it might not be that big a difference.

Forbes is out for NYC, and NYC alone...they want to trsh the rest of the country while they are at it. 

 

Perfect example is the top 10 most miserable cities...about 2 months ago..they had chicago #1.  Heres a city that just produced a historic president and had the rally there, is up for the 2016 olympics and is continuously building its urban neighborhoods and downtowns.  Not to mention, when i go there once a month...i see people having fun.  Chicago is a hot city and New York doesnt want anyone stealing the young professionals...so they write whatever they want on the Forbes rag to market their own city.

Forbes is out for NYC, and NYC alone...they want to trsh the rest of the country while they are at it.

 

Perfect example is the top 10 most miserable cities...about 2 months ago..they had chicago #1.  Heres a city that just produced a historic president and had the rally there, is up for the 2016 olympics and is continuously building its urban neighborhoods and downtowns.  Not to mention, when i go there once a month...i see people having fun.  Chicago is a hot city and New York doesnt want anyone stealing the young professionals...so they write whatever they want on the Forbes rag to market their own city.

 

Where are you getting that information?  What facts do you have to support that.  Making a statement like that, is about as reliable as their list.

 

The problem is they don't have a reputable research organization.  It has nothing to do with their location.

Based on the lists they make. I come to my own conclusions...they trash everyone but New York City. There is no reason in the world to call Chicago the most miserable city in the country other than to try and deter people from going there.  Its just not true.

Are you telling me there isnt an ounce of you that believes that Chicago is becoming one of the most liveable, popular cities to be in?  I remember the night of the election, I believe it was either Chris Matthews of David Gregory who said "New York better watch out, Chicago is on fire right now"...

Based on the lists they make. I come to my own conclusions...they trash everyone but New York City. There is no reason in the world to call Chicago the most miserable city in the country other than to try and deter people from going there.  Its just not true.

 

So that is your opinion, not fact?  Correct?  I'm not talking about one poll, I'm discussing their reporting style and accuracy of their content, period.

 

Personally and professionally I love to bury Forbes and call them out.  However, for you to give your opinion as fact, is just as bad as them skewing or not providing how information was computed in various polls.

 

Are you telling me there isnt an ounce of you that believes that Chicago is becoming one of the most liveable, popular cities to be in?  I remember the night of the election, I believe it was either Chris Matthews of David Gregory who said "New York better watch out, Chicago is on fire right now"...

Depends on what information from NBC/MSNBC/Newsweek they were using at the time.

 

 

It seems Detroit may have a beef:

 

http://www.crimetrends.com/id4.html

WIthout doubt its my opinion.  Thats okay to express on this forum...correct?  The difference is that Im not publishing something and getting paid to skew it.  You openly express your opinions all the time on different cities...while i agree with you most of the time, I'm sure some people would argue your stance.

WIthout doubt its my opinion.  Thats okay to express on this forum...correct?  The difference is that Im not publishing something and getting paid to skew it.  You openly express your opinions all the time on different cities...while i agree with you most of the time, I'm sure some people would argue your stance.

 

I think you're missing my point. 

 

Earlier you posted:

Forbes is out for NYC, and NYC alone...they want to trsh the rest of the country while they are at it. 

 

I asked

Where are you getting that information?

 

It's your opinion, not fact.  You can express your opinion all you want  ;) , as I'm not making an attempt to curtail that, but trying to get you to see, that making a statement like that doesn't add any credibility or validity. 

 

I don't think they try down other cities, I think they have piss poor reporting, research and little integrity.  The sad part is some people take this information as "the gospel".

My opinion is that you two should take this argument to PM. :)

I think its resolved...an regardless of the poor reporting...Im glad to see Cleveland isnt one of the top 15 most violent cities in America...

My opinion is that you two should take this argument to PM. :)

 

 

HUSH!

why do we keep rehashing this discussion after every forbes list?  :roll:

 

aww okay once again.

 

yes, forbes lists always has some sort of methodology....for cover.

 

however, it's not a research journal.

 

that is, they freely editorialize on the rankings, both out of bias and to sell magazines.

 

now personally i don't ignore forbes lists totally, they are very compelling and informative in their way, but i dont get too hot about them either. overall, i just take them with a grain of salt. in the commercial magazine world compelling always trumps informative!

 

ps - didn't anyone even notice the overall good news? nationwide crime was down 3.5%  :clap:

 

why do we keep rehashing this discussion after every forbes list?  ::)

 

aww okay once again.

 

yes, forbes lists always has some sort of methodology....for cover.

 

however, it's not a research journal.

 

that is, they freely editorialize on the rankings, both out of bias and to sell magazines.

 

now personally i don't ignore forbes lists totally, they are very compelling and informative in their way, but i dont get too hot about them either. overall, i just take them with a grain of salt. in the commercial magazine world compelling always trumps informative!

 

 

Thats why you kids should only read TIME and watch CNN.  ;) ;) ;)

The cities are just ranked by violent crimes per 100,000, how is that edited in any way at all?

 

Some of the lists like "happiest places" or the "most miserable places one" that was posted here awhile ago (i don't think it was from Forbes) use some strange statistics to arrive at their conclusions, but this one just uses the violent crime stat. 

 

Anyways, I'm surprised to see Nashville on the list, I had an ex girlfriend live there for awhile and would visit on weekends and it seemed like an extremely calm and peaceful place, except for the south side of the downtown area along Broadway, which was rowdy (in a good way) and lots of fun.

The cities are just ranked by violent crimes per 100,000, how is that edited in any way at all?

 

Some of the lists like "happiest places" or the "most miserable places one" that was posted here awhile ago (i don't think it was from Forbes) use some strange statistics to arrive at their conclusions, but this one just uses the violent crime stat. 

 

Anyways, I'm surprised to see Nashville on the list, I had an ex girlfriend live there for awhile and would visit on weekends and it seemed like an extremely calm and peaceful place, except for the south side of the downtown area along Broadway, which was rowdy (in a good way) and lots of fun.

 

well, that would be more true if they just listed fbi rankings in an info box or something. still, not their worst 'list' for sure!

 

although it was quite awhile ago, i lived near nashville and often spent time there. as you say it seemed like a quiet place -- i'm very surprized to see it listed too.

 

 

I don't really mind reading them. I find these list entertaining.

 

I take it as a grain of salt, but still entertaining.

What I find most interesting is that a lot of these aren't big cities (sans Philly).  Not sure why that is.

 

I see no reason why these lists shouldn't be posted.  Are they perfect methodologically?  Probably not.  But they measure the crime rate per 100,000 people.  Stats are stats. find most int