Will easily donate to a GoFundMe for emergency stabilization if the opportunity becomes available. We can't lose the Jackson. Way to valuable of an asset for otr to lose. 

29 minutes ago, troeros said:

Brewery District organizers are saying on Twitter they have plans for Jackson after the fire. I guess they will see if the building can be stabilized, which I would have to presume it can be. But that's just me guessing from simply looking at the pictures. 

I did not say we have plans for the building after the fire. The building owner had stabilized it and was studying how to best develop it in the future.

51 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

It does look pretty bad (not that it looked great before the fire, honestly) but only the 3rd floor and roof are wood framed if I recall correctly, the rest is masonry and concrete.  So I would hope it's still salvageable.  It's just unfortunate that the stabilization work and new roof from a couple years ago was basically for naught thanks to this.  

So far we have held off the city from demolishing, but will need to get a lot of support to make sure it doesn't happen in the coming days/weeks. The biggest concern is the main facade, due to the fire there is 30' of unsupported masonry standing there, as jjakucyk said much of the interior structure is concrete and steel and hopefully still intact enough to give some lateral stability. No one has been in yetup top  to verify as there are still hot spots CFD is putting out (I did peak into the cellars). Working on getting a structural engineer out as well as funding sources for stabilization. Worst thing is this a bad time of year to pour thousands of gallons of water on masonry and then just let it freeze.

Edited December 15, 20195 yr by mcmicken

43 minutes ago, troeros said:

Will easily donate to a GoFundMe for emergency stabilization if the opportunity becomes available. We can't lose the Jackson. Way to valuable of an asset for otr to lose. 

 

The GoFundMe for the previous attempt to redevelop the building in 2013 can still be viewed here. Of course that plan didn't get off of the ground, and that group eventually went on to buy an old church in Northside and turn it into Urban Artifact.

13 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

So far we have held off the city from demolishing, but will need to get a lot of support to make sure it doesn't happen in the coming days/weeks. The biggest concern is the main facade, due to the fire there is 30' of unsupported masonry standing there, as jjakucyk said much of the interior structure is concrete and steel and hopefully still intact enough to give some lateral stability. No one has been in yetup top  to verify as there are still hot spots CFD is putting out (I did peak into the cellars). Working on getting a structural engineer out as well as funding sources for stabilization. Worst thing is this a bad time of year to pour thousands of gallons of water on masonry and then just let it freeze.

 

Is their any rough - eye ball estimate for much stabilization would cost? Could a GoFundMe be set up today by chance for the sake of time urgency? Will gladly donate and I know many others who will do the same to save this building from demo. 

15 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Is their any rough - eye ball estimate for much stabilization would cost? Could a GoFundMe be set up today by chance for the sake of time urgency? Will gladly donate and I know many others who will do the same to save this building from demo. 

Unknown at this point until we can see how extensive the damage is inside. Also depends on how permanent the stabilization is (ie rebuilding floors or just shoring walls).

 

 

I'm glad that city administration seem to be in consensus that despite the devestating damage this is truly a piece of Cincinnati worth saving.

 

Hopefully we learn more info in the coming days on how we can help support any type of stabilization efforts that are needed/required. 

Unfortunately, the Jackson Brewery was already a difficult building to redevelop, and the destruction from today's fire makes any potential redevelopment even more difficult and expensive.

 

 

29 minutes ago, taestell said:

Unfortunately, the Jackson Brewery was already a difficult building to redevelop, and the destruction from today's fire makes any potential redevelopment even more difficult and expensive.

 

 

 

What exactly are the challenges with the Jackson Brewery that makes it so difficult to rehab? 

 

I naively want to fantasize that a wealthy high profit brewery (mad tree, braxton, Sam Adams) would have the capital to invest in the Jackson and return it to it's Glory

 

...Hell, could someone like Rhinegeist ever want to enter the hard seltzer space and use the Jackson space as an annex off brand space (similar to Braxton and their brand Vive) to use as a production facility/hard seltzer tap room...

 

 

Edited December 16, 20195 yr by troeros

 

Good points being raised. 

Ugh this makes me really regret having to miss the UO meetup that took place there earlier this year. Oh well the one girl at work hit on the other girl then they couldn't work together anymore so I had to go in instead of coming to the UO meet.

Here is the floor plan from the previous proposal to turn it into a combination theater, music venue, and brewery. They estimated the cost of the project at $1.1 million in 2013. Between the fire damage and the rising cost of construction, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost $1.5 to 2 million today.

 

I think that Scott's statement about preserving the facade and demolishing the rest of the building is probably accurate. The south facade is the most recognizable part of the building anyway, and it's the only part that's really visible from the rest of the neighborhood. You could build a completely new structure behind that facade and the average person would never know until they went inside and saw that it was a modern building.

 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

What exactly are the challenges with the Jackson Brewery that makes it so difficult to rehab? 

 

A lot of the floors were removed and reconfigured in poured concrete, especially in the western half of the building.  So there's misaligned floors, some very tall and also some very short spaces, ramps, stairs, and being that it's concrete and masonry it's not trivial to demo and fix.  The small windows in front and lack of any in the back also make it difficult to convert into some uses without compromising the historical integrity.  Additions in the rear are newer basic warehouse spaces without much going for them, but they make egress an issue.  The college studio project I did on this building (embarrassing as it might be) was a residential conversion, cutting in a couple of new windows and replacing the additions in the rear, but of course there's no accounting for financial feasibility, and most of these units are pretty large lofts/studios which should really be multi-bedroom setups. 

 

Doesn't mean it's not worth saving.  For as beautiful a city as Cincinnati is, there really are very few monumental buildings on prominent street axes, and while this is no Union Terminal, Withrow High School, or St. Francis deSales Church, it's still an important building on an important site.  

9 minutes ago, taestell said:

Here is the floor plan from the previous proposal to turn it into a combination theater, music venue, and brewery. They estimated the cost of the project at $1.1 million in 2013. Between the fire damage and the rising cost of construction, I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost $1.5 to 2 million today.

 

I think that Scott's statement about preserving the facade and demolishing the rest of the building is probably accurate. The south facade is the most recognizable part of the building anyway, and it's the only part that's really visible from the rest of the neighborhood. You could build a completely new structure behind that facade and the average person would never know until they went inside and saw that it was a modern building.

 

At least. ULI did a TAP study earlier this year at the owner's request and it was more like a $5+ million project for a boutique hotel.

 

One of the biggest issues is access. The only vehicular access is from Mohawk which itself is accessed off of steep north-south streets like Stonewall. It is not very practical for any sort of industrial use again due to that, in addition to the interior issues that @jjakucyk mentioned.

 

Unfortunately, the primary part of the facade with the most historic detail is the section most threatened currently. If that isn't preserved there isn't much left to save.

36 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

At least. ULI did a TAP study earlier this year at the owner's request and it was more like a $5+ million project for a boutique hotel.

 

One of the biggest issues is access. The only vehicular access is from Mohawk which itself is accessed off of steep north-south streets like Stonewall. It is not very practical for any sort of industrial use again due to that, in addition to the interior issues that @jjakucyk mentioned.

 

Unfortunately, the primary part of the facade with the most historic detail is the section most threatened currently. If that isn't preserved there isn't much left to save.

 

Any word on when an assessment will be done on what can be stabilized? Is this something we will know within the next day or two? Or will this be a much longer process before we find out for certain?

I was onsite with the owner and engineer this morning. Still not able to get in but did a visual assessment from the exterior and drone. Good thing is less damage than was expected, most of the floor framing survived other than the upper two floors in the middle, and even some of the heavy timber beams up there remain. Engineer currently working on a stabilization plan. City seems to have backed off emergency demo.

How does this fire damage compare to the one in the old Christian Moerlein facility years ago that Rhinegeist now occupies?

4 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

How does this fire damage compare to the one in the old Christian Moerlein facility years ago that Rhinegeist now occupies?

Firewalls on both projects seemed to limit damage. Moerlein was contained to only the upper floor and roof, while Jackson is much more extensive. Just on scale this one is worse but the heavy timber construction plus the portions of concrete and steel construction seemed to hold up well. Again we haven't been inside yet so much is still speculative.

2 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

Firewalls on both projects seemed to limit damage. Moerlein was contained to only the upper floor and roof, while Jackson is much more extensive. Just on scale this one is worse but the heavy timber construction plus the portions of concrete and steel construction seemed to hold up well. Again we haven't been inside yet so much is still speculative.

 

I know the owner is Fred Burger....any word on where he is standing with all of this? I know he was slowly renovating the Jackson so I imagine this was a major blow for him and his efforts. 

26 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I know the owner is Fred Burger....any word on where he is standing with all of this? I know he was slowly renovating the Jackson so I imagine this was a major blow for him and his efforts. 

Fred Berger was very frustrated to say the least with the fire, but he is committed to stabilizing the building back to its original historic fabric.

So random observation but did the ghost sign change on the front facade, near the top? I know it used to say, "Metal Blast", but now it appears to say, "Jackson Brewery" in bold letters, with some more lettering underneath. I checked google maps for 2019 and it still said Metal Blast earlier this year..was the name change part of the rehab that the brewery was undergoing? Or did the heat of the flames peel back a new layer of ghost signs? I'm confused lol. 

3 minutes ago, troeros said:

So random observation but did the ghost sign change on the front facade, near the top? I know it used to say, "Metal Blast", but now it appears to say, "Jackson Brewery" in bold letters, with some more lettering underneath. I checked google maps for 2019 and it still said Metal Blast earlier this year..was the name change part of the rehab that the brewery was undergoing? Or did the heat of the flames peel back a new layer of ghost signs? I'm confused lol. 

The "Jackson Brewery" and underneath "Kleiner Bros" (who built this iteration of the brewery) are stone letters that are embedded in the brick. They have only recently come to light in the past 2-3 years as the Metal Blast paint has worn off. The fire accelerated that process.

 

Here's a photo from the UrbanOhio meetup in July. As you can see, the "Metal Blast" paint was almost completed faded by that point, revealing the "Jackson Brewery" letters underneath. (View in full resolution)

 

So it kind of feels like the fire department jumped the gun at calling it a "total loss". If it was some wood-framed tract home then it certainly would be, but this thing was pretty solidly-built, like most of OTR. I don't want to sound like I'm accusing of firefighters not doing their job right, but it just feels like they went with the "insurance definition" as opposed to the reality of this sort of building. 

7 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

So it kind of feels like the fire department jumped the gun at calling it a "total loss". If it was some wood-framed tract home then it certainly would be, but this thing was pretty solidly-built, like most of OTR. I don't want to sound like I'm accusing of firefighters not doing their job right, but it just feels like they went with the "insurance definition" as opposed to the reality of this sort of building. 

Politically, it is not out of the woods yet. The chief building official Art Dahlberg still would like to tear it down, at least the most damaged portions. We've been successful holding off to date to at least give the owner time to get a stabilization plan developed by SSRG.

 

Additional photos showing extent of damage:

 

https://photos.citybeat.com/these-drone-photographs-show-the-aftermath-of-over-the-rhines-jackson-brewery-fire/?slide=1&dcim100mediadji_0002-jpg

While the loss of the roof and floor structures is tragic, all those parapet walls look to be in pretty good shape considering.  Yes they need to be braced stat, but I don't see any bulging or missing caps or blown out areas.  It really looks quite solid.  Besides, I'm pretty certain Mohawk was de-dedicated in front of the building, so it's all private property and not a "threat" to anyone really.  

13 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

While the loss of the roof and floor structures is tragic, all those parapet walls look to be in pretty good shape considering.  Yes they need to be braced stat, but I don't see any bulging or missing caps or blown out areas.  It really looks quite solid.  Besides, I'm pretty certain Mohawk was de-dedicated in front of the building, so it's all private property and not a "threat" to anyone really.  

Correct. 

January 1, 2020:

 

 

Idiot! Hope he has skills to pay this back over the next few decades, and good work to all who got him for this (allegedly). https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/suspect-arrested-charged-with-arson-in-connection-to-the-historic-jackson-brewery-fire?fbclid=IwAR3ZM3ddHByBydV0b5mfHlHXv4Y8fhUsvURqGXZCfSBSf0LYg2z9nqP1BUU

 

 

 

I heard he set fire in three separate places.  A**hole.

He wrote a song called Burning Sensation:

 

His last (public) facebook post was complaining about Trump threatening cultural sites in Iran.

He was also quoted in a News Record article about pit bull rights:

 

Quote

 

Cincy increasingly embraces pit bulls in recent years

 

Andre Dargahi, a third-year English student, grew up with a pit bull as a pet.

 

“It’s awful, I think it’s terrible,” said Dargahi on Montreal’s now lifted ban.

 

“Any animal will turn out how you treat it. You can make a Chihuahua into an attack dog just as much as you can make a pit bull into an attack dog — I think it’s inhumane.”

 

Dargahi has noticed a number of apartment complexes around campus that do not allow the breed. Though he does not agree with it, he understands it’s within the landlord’s right to uphold the restriction. 

 

 

 

Quote

Second arrest made in Over-the-Rhine brewery warehouse fire

 

Cameron Bost, 29, of Clifton is charged with aggravated arson and breaking and entering.

Investigators said Jost admitted he had a part in starting the blaze that heavily damaged the historic Jackson Brewery warehouse built in 1850.

On Friday, another man was arrested in connection with the fire. Andre Dargahi, 23, faces the same charges as Bost.