Posted May 6, 200916 yr I have been documenting a couple of Cincinnati's Neighborhood Business Districts(NBDs) for my Masters thesis and I decided to share a few photos I took yesterday. This by no means accounts for all of Cincinnati's NBDs but the collection does give an idea of the variety. Enjoy the photos, unphotoshopped, unaltered. Clifton Heights Walnut Hills: Peebles Corner East Walnut Hills: DeSales Corner East Walnut Hills: DeSales Corner Mt. Adams O'Bryonville (Evanston) Hyde Park Square Hyde Park Square Mt. Lookout Square Bonus: Columbia-Tusculum Bonus: Columbia-Tusculum Northside Northside Northside College Hill Westwood West Price Hill Bond Hill Roselawn Pleasant Ridge Pleasant Ridge Clifton Clifton Clifton Clifton: My Home (the 3rd floor anyway)
May 6, 200916 yr Crews were out a few days ago working to remove the overhead power poles. It looks very nice now!
May 7, 200916 yr Haha, Atlas, I didn't realize this was your thread until I got to the last pic. Great idea for a thread. Mt Lookout Sq is still my favorite...I don't care what anybody says.
May 7, 200916 yr Haha, Atlas, I didn't realize this was your thread until I got to the last pic. Great idea for a thread. Mt Lookout Sq is still my favorite...I don't care what anybody says. Wtf? Why? Great thread Greg. Cincinnati has the best NBDs!
May 7, 200916 yr "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 7, 200916 yr Yeah, that's where DanB was waving his American flag and cheering as Dick Cheney's limo drove by, on its way to Price Hill Chili in '04.
May 7, 200916 yr Haha, Atlas, I didn't realize this was your thread until I got to the last pic. Great idea for a thread. Mt Lookout Sq is still my favorite...I don't care what anybody says. Wtf? Why? Great thread Greg. Cincinnati has the best NBDs! It's cute, and I like the way the streets come together to form it instead it just being a wide street. And the shops aren't all uppity and boring like Hyde Park. I like shopping in Northside, but there's not any sort of "square" there. Also, I think Mt. Lookout Square is oriented more toward the neighborhood residents than anything. It's where you can trot down from your house to go to the bank, get some snacks at UDF and eat at the neighborhood pub. It's not trying to impress or attract anyone who's not from the neighborhood. That's why it's my favorite.
May 7, 200916 yr Haha, Atlas, I didn't realize this was your thread until I got to the last pic. Great idea for a thread. Mt Lookout Sq is still my favorite...I don't care what anybody says. Wtf? Why? Great thread Greg. Cincinnati has the best NBDs! It's cute, and I like the way the streets come together to form it instead it just being a wide street. And the shops aren't all uppity and boring like Hyde Park. I like shopping in Northside, but there's not any sort of "square" there. Also, I think Mt. Lookout Square is oriented more toward the neighborhood residents than anything. It's where you can trot down from your house to go to the bank, get some snacks at UDF and eat at the neighborhood pub. It's not trying to impress or attract anyone who's not from the neighborhood. That's why it's my favorite. Yeah, HP is boring after a while. It's too predictable. I thought Mt. Adams or Northside would be your favorite. Pleasant Ridge is a lot like Mt. Lookout in the sense that it doesn't try hard and caters to neighborhood residents. I think I like P-Ridge a little more though (not just because I lived there for 3 years). I miss Gaslight Cafe, The Dubliner and Pleasant Ridge Chili's gravy and cheese fries :x
May 7, 200916 yr The 'challenging' aspect of these photos (which are great), is that the quality of the built environment far exceeds the quality of the economic activity in nearly all of them - PRidge and East Walnut Hills most prominently.
May 7, 200916 yr Haha, Atlas, I didn't realize this was your thread until I got to the last pic. Great idea for a thread. Mt Lookout Sq is still my favorite...I don't care what anybody says. Wtf? Why? Great thread Greg. Cincinnati has the best NBDs! It's cute, and I like the way the streets come together to form it instead it just being a wide street. And the shops aren't all uppity and boring like Hyde Park. I like shopping in Northside, but there's not any sort of "square" there. Also, I think Mt. Lookout Square is oriented more toward the neighborhood residents than anything. It's where you can trot down from your house to go to the bank, get some snacks at UDF and eat at the neighborhood pub. It's not trying to impress or attract anyone who's not from the neighborhood. That's why it's my favorite. I love Mt. Lookout Square too, it has all the right ingredients of a good NBD. -There's nightlife (The Stand, MLT's, Millions, Muz's) and on any given weekend night you'll see lot's of people out walking/stumbling around. -There's restaurants that cater to neighborhood people (Zips, Bettas, Ramundos, Lucy Blues, Dancing Wasabi, RuThais), -a UDF -Upscale restaurants catering to a hip crowd (Aqua, Nectar) Plus there's tons of services that neighborhood people need (butcher, bank, gym, coffee shop, vet, toy store, etc.), and there's even a jazz club (Redmoor). It's definitely a well rounded place, and a nearly 24 hour NBD. I would hesitate to call HP boring, though. Uppity, perhaps, but it's definitely not boring.
May 7, 200916 yr Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon).
May 7, 200916 yr Where the hell's Cheviot? :wink: Props, this is a good thread idea! edit: nevermind, they are thier own city I guess, even though they represent the CPS!
May 7, 200916 yr Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon). Really? I only drove through it once, but I thought is was probably the closest thing to suburbia in the city. Kind of bleak....maybe I'll get out of the car next time and explore. Regarding Pleasant Ridge vs Mt Lookout. I just did some walkthroughs via pictures and Google and it seems like they're about the same business-wise. But the setting of Mt Lookout is much more quaint. I'll be sure to check out Pleasant Ridge in person though when I visit next month.
May 7, 200916 yr I like College Hill, but it's really suffering from the effects of crime. Crime in that neighborhood has spiked in recent years, and many once-stable businesses in the NBD have moved out, which is a shame. I think it has the potential to be a very clean and very nice NBD, but it needs further investment and crime reduction to reach that critical mass.
May 7, 200916 yr I agree about Mt. Lookout Square... I've always loved that area. If I end up back in Cincy for grad school, I think Mt. Lookout is probably my top pick for a neighborhood to live in.
May 7, 200916 yr I think Cincy's biggest shortcoming (this goes for every where not just NBD's) is the lack of streetscaping. This includes boring concrete sidewalks, above ground utilities, street lamps on utility poles, and this is the biggest NO STREET TREES! Just look how much nicer Walnut Hills: Peebles Corner looks than West Price Hill. This needs to be addressed across the entire city starting with downtown.
May 7, 200916 yr Agreed... I like the modern light fixtures and traffic signals in the main part of downtown Cincy (they've actually been there since the 70's but seem to have aged well), and I'd like to see them used in OTR, Uptown, and other business districts as well. Brick sidewalks and more trees would also go a long way toward improving the look of the city.
May 7, 200916 yr Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon). Really? I only drove through it once, but I thought is was probably the closest thing to suburbia in the city. Kind of bleak....maybe I'll get out of the car next time and explore. Regarding Pleasant Ridge vs Mt Lookout. I just did some walkthroughs via pictures and Google and it seems like they're about the same business-wise. But the setting of Mt Lookout is much more quaint. I'll be sure to check out Pleasant Ridge in person though when I visit next month. I think you said you drove through College Hill on your way to Jungle Jims? It's possible that what you saw and thought was College Hill was actually North College Hill or even Colerain. College Hill is pretty urban, and has a nice, intact NBD.
May 7, 200916 yr Wow! I'd never heard of Columbia-Tusculum before! Definitely have to check it out next time I'm in town!
May 7, 200916 yr I think Cincy's biggest shortcoming (this goes for every where not just NBD's) is the lack of streetscaping. This includes boring concrete sidewalks, above ground utilities, street lamps on utility poles, and this is the biggest NO STREET TREES! Just look how much nicer Walnut Hills: Peebles Corner looks than West Price Hill. This needs to be addressed across the entire city starting with downtown. Peebles Corner just had its utilities buried a few days ago after the first phase of a streetscaping project was completed about 2002, IIRC. Main Street in OTR had its streetscape reconstructed a while back, and its utilities were buried. The same is occurring right now along Vine Street south of Liberty. To an extent, the streetscape is being reconstructed along Ludlow at Clifton, although the utilities are not being buried (yet). The reason that I received when I asked the same question is that there is a very hard rock directly beneath the surface of many neighborhoods, that makes it cost prohibitive to bury the utilities initially. If additional monies are granted later, like at Peebles Corner, then they can be buried with little mess.
May 7, 200916 yr In Mt. Adams, St. Gregory Street is scheduled to have overhead utilites buried. It should be starting soon I think. They have cut down some trees I think in preparation.
May 7, 200916 yr So these areas have an acronym! I always called them "commercial corridors" or "commercial strips" or "downtowns". The NBD makes a lot of sense. You have the CBD and then you have those. I make it a point to visit these when visiting a city. I think going this route gives one the best way to experience a city and since Ohio cities tend to lack lots of tourist sites anyway (which I think is a good thing) these are the way to go. I can't imagine anyone having a bad impression after doing this. I've still got plenty to visit in Cincinnati. I've been to Clifton, Mt. Adams and Hyde Park. Bond Hill and West Price Hill are both way too car oriented and it's obvious that it's not helping either.
May 7, 200916 yr Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon). Really? I only drove through it once, but I thought is was probably the closest thing to suburbia in the city. Kind of bleak....maybe I'll get out of the car next time and explore. Regarding Pleasant Ridge vs Mt Lookout. I just did some walkthroughs via pictures and Google and it seems like they're about the same business-wise. But the setting of Mt Lookout is much more quaint. I'll be sure to check out Pleasant Ridge in person though when I visit next month. Not quite sure where you're getting this. I am sure you're mistaken. Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon). College Hill has always been one of my favorites, and is actually a large focus of my thesis. Unfortunately, the a contributing building was torn down because of a recent fire. The building really added to the presence of the district when heading south, giving a great termination vista when the road curves. Now, the feeling is diminished, as the building was replaced with some random trees. Cincinnatis NBDs are full of so much potential its ridiculous. After going to Minneapolis, and hearing my fellow planners complain how Cincinnati doesn't have this or that, I really realized what can be done and what a great sense of place can be created in a city without a ton of great aesthetics (Minneapolis, IMO). Cincinnati has the aesthetics and the great feel, it needs investment to really elevate these NBDs to a whole new level. In Minneapolis, an otherwise bland strip of buildings, a place called 'Eat Street' is a thriving area despite being relatively unappealing aesthetically. If Cincinnati could tap into that energy in these NBDs, something truly special could be done here, taking it far beyond what a lot of other cities of similar size offer.
May 7, 200916 yr I'd say with the NBD's we may have a curse of riches. Probably half of all neighborhoods in the city have potentially excellent NBD's, unfortunately that means the businesses and the investment is spread around. There are couple that have gained escape velocity, while others battle to just to keep their heads above water. I will say that PRidge NBD problem is that it is mostly a two-income neighborhood. NBD need business during the day, which was traditionally mothers and children, which Hyde Park and Mt. Lookout still have and PRidge hasn't for years (probably the 60s).
May 7, 200916 yr The reason that I received when I asked the same question is that there is a very hard rock directly beneath the surface of many neighborhoods, that makes it cost prohibitive to bury the utilities initially. If additional monies are granted later, like at Peebles Corner, then they can be buried with little mess. I recently spoke with an Over-the-Rhine business owner and was told that another obstacle is that in many urban areas when you cut down into the sidewalks to bury these utilities you are cutting into basements/storage areas connected to the building fronting the street at that particular location. This is fine, but the owner must come up with the resources to secure their building so that it is not exposed during the construction process. If that can not be done and an agreement can not be reached then it's a no go.
May 8, 200916 yr The reason that I received when I asked the same question is that there is a very hard rock directly beneath the surface of many neighborhoods, that makes it cost prohibitive to bury the utilities initially. If additional monies are granted later, like at Peebles Corner, then they can be buried with little mess. I recently spoke with an Over-the-Rhine business owner and was told that another obstacle is that in many urban areas when you cut down into the sidewalks to bury these utilities you are cutting into basements/storage areas connected to the building fronting the street at that particular location. This is fine, but the owner must come up with the resources to secure their building so that it is not exposed during the construction process. If that can not be done and an agreement can not be reached then it's a no go. In Cincinnati, and in many other urbanized areas, basements or coal storage areas (for heating systems) were often constructed under sidewalks as a cheap method to provide storage to various businesses -- upon a business owner requesting it. As was the case with the Vine Street project (and the 4th Street project in Huntington, W.Va.), those storage areas needed to be removed before the project could commence. The owners of the storage areas needed to secure it -- as you noted, but the cost was borne by the property owner as the storage facility was on city property and it was up to the discretion of the city engineer if the underground units could stay or go. When burying utilities, then it is 100% probable that the storage areas must be removed since they are typically right under the sidewalk.
May 8, 200916 yr When burying utilities, then it is 100% probable that the storage areas must be removed since they are typically right under the sidewalk. 100% probable...what the hell does that mean?
May 8, 200916 yr Ohio, eat your heart out. Thank you...Kentucky? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 8, 200916 yr The reason that I received when I asked the same question is that there is a very hard rock directly beneath the surface of many neighborhoods, that makes it cost prohibitive to bury the utilities initially. If additional monies are granted later, like at Peebles Corner, then they can be buried with little mess. I recently spoke with an Over-the-Rhine business owner and was told that another obstacle is that in many urban areas when you cut down into the sidewalks to bury these utilities you are cutting into basements/storage areas connected to the building fronting the street at that particular location. This is fine, but the owner must come up with the resources to secure their building so that it is not exposed during the construction process. If that can not be done and an agreement can not be reached then it's a no go. In Cincinnati, and in many other urbanized areas, basements or coal storage areas (for heating systems) were often constructed under sidewalks as a cheap method to provide storage to various businesses -- upon a business owner requesting it. As was the case with the Vine Street project (and the 4th Street project in Huntington, W.Va.), those storage areas needed to be removed before the project could commence. The owners of the storage areas needed to secure it -- as you noted, but the cost was borne by the property owner as the storage facility was on city property and it was up to the discretion of the city engineer if the underground units could stay or go. When burying utilities, then it is 100% probable that the storage areas must be removed since they are typically right under the sidewalk. I remember when almost all the buildings in downtown Fort Wayne had sidewalk vaults, sometimes for coal, but often for freight delivery. They had an opening right next to the front of the building with steel doors over it, and a sort of dumbwaiter that would rise to sidewalk level and push the doors open. That was how merchandise was delivered to many stores. You could spot where the sidewalk vaults were by the sections of sidewalk that had glass prisms set into the concrete to let light into the space below. Replacement of deteriorated sidewalks and buried water, sewer, and gas lines over the past thirty years has involved filling in all the sidewalk vaults. The blocked up the openings into the basements and then removed the sidewalks and filled in the space with crushed stone.
May 8, 200916 yr Ohio, eat your heart out. Thank you...Kentucky? Yeah ... that'd be Cincinnati. Hata!
May 8, 200916 yr Great idea for a thread. College Hill is probably my newest favorite NBD (pics coming soon). Really? I only drove through it once, but I thought is was probably the closest thing to suburbia in the city. Kind of bleak....maybe I'll get out of the car next time and explore. Regarding Pleasant Ridge vs Mt Lookout. I just did some walkthroughs via pictures and Google and it seems like they're about the same business-wise. But the setting of Mt Lookout is much more quaint. I'll be sure to check out Pleasant Ridge in person though when I visit next month. I think you said you drove through College Hill on your way to Jungle Jims? It's possible that what you saw and thought was College Hill was actually North College Hill or even Colerain. College Hill is pretty urban, and has a nice, intact NBD. This is VERY possible. I'm coming back down in a month, and I'll definitely have to check out Pleasant Ridge and College Hill. Actually, I just Street Viewed it and I am definitely thinking of North College Hill. I'll be sure to stop next time and check it out.
May 8, 200916 yr I remember when almost all the buildings in downtown Fort Wayne had sidewalk vaults, sometimes for coal, but often for freight delivery. They had an opening right next to the front of the building with steel doors over it, and a sort of dumbwaiter that would rise to sidewalk level and push the doors open. That was how merchandise was delivered to many stores. You could spot where the sidewalk vaults were by the sections of sidewalk that had glass prisms set into the concrete to let light into the space below. Replacement of deteriorated sidewalks and buried water, sewer, and gas lines over the past thirty years has involved filling in all the sidewalk vaults. The blocked up the openings into the basements and then removed the sidewalks and filled in the space with crushed stone. I remember seeing one of those during a Looney Tune when I was a kid and wondering what it was. It wasn't a week before I was walking in Clintonville and got to see one work in real life. It made my day as a tyke.
May 8, 200916 yr I think Cincy's biggest shortcoming (this goes for every where not just NBD's) is the lack of streetscaping. This includes boring concrete sidewalks, above ground utilities, street lamps on utility poles, and this is the biggest NO STREET TREES! Just look how much nicer Walnut Hills: Peebles Corner looks than West Price Hill. This needs to be addressed across the entire city starting with downtown. A ton of cities define themselves with trees on NBD's and/or in many of their neighborhoods, Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland being notables. I personally like the old pictures of Cincinnati when there were no trees downtown, just a concrete city and the accompanying vibe. IMO what's great about Cincinnati is the housing is generally very visible from the street due to a lack of curbside trees, and it adds an urban flavor that makes many of our neighborhoods.
May 27, 200916 yr I think above-ground utilities are fine. It's a much better arrangement for the squirrels. I do love the look of those Cincinnati commercial districts. A streetcar line, with overhead wires and all, would double the appeal of any one of those districts.
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