Hello Urban Ohio Community, I have an idea.  Lets do something.  Sure we debate the pro's and con's of development and lack of it.  Some of us go to public meetings and report back.  Some of us take pictures.  Some of us just troll.  I don't know about you but I have had enough.  Big things start small... just ask Sam Miller from Forest City about his first deal and you will see what I mean. 

 

My idea: Urban Ohio Development LLC

An LLC for the advancement of cities in Ohio.  Heres the jist.  Whomever wants in puts forth whatever they want/can: $20 or $2,000.  Doesn't matter.  When we have all parties and moneys tabulated: issue percentage of company based on investment.  We decide on a board to supervise the budget and manage any money and decisions.  Buy a cheap house in Cleveland... fix her up and rent it out.  Expand our business line of credit and do it again.  We can decide what to do with any proceeds, charity or something... I really could care less.

 

What I am getting at is this: I am 21 years old and have been a member of this forum since I was 15 and not much has changed and I am sick of it.  I want to stay here and raise a family one day and this city just slips more and more away from me.  I want to get out and meet some of you... not just taking pictures and laughing it up.  But actually DOING something, putting a nail into a floor board, fixing the city one F*cked up house at a time.  This would be a side project so nobody is expecting to get rich off this obviously but the possibility for a small residual income could be there... At the end of the day if you just want to bash my idea then please don't post.  You are the reason this city sucks.

FE,

 

There's a whole lot that goes into starting an LLC, obviously.. Not to mention legalities, goal setting/visions, pay...agian not a bad idea.

 

Also, if you remember, this thread was started about 2 years ago..http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,11988.0.html

 

Other people had ideas of being tour guides, bringing in companies, bringing in immigrants, etc

 

BTW I don't think this "city sucks" by any means, nor do most people who post on here.  You ended your post in the worst possible way....delete your last two sentences and you're golden.

Ferrari, I have PMed you before about starting an art project, but you never responded to my message.

 

Are you serious about starting this now?? I would be interested in discussing the possibilities of something like this further, for sure.

I'd like to find out more about this: specifically how it would be established, organized, and rolled out. 

I'm interested in collaborating with you guys on such a project or something to enhance the city, be it an art project or the development of pocket parks and whatnot. I have experience in purchasing properties and know a lot of people with the city, midtown, etc. who can assist.

I'd be in on this totally.  I've been looking for a place to put all my extra money! Ha! But actually I'm a licensed architect so in terms of doing drawings or getting permits or doing design on rehabs or things like that I'd be willing to do some pro bono work.  Let me know, don't let this fall by the wayside.  We all have talents on here and if we put them together we could be one hell of an organization.  And by the way my wife started her own business, and developers that we work with start a new one every day, I'm sure somebody here would have the expertise to help with that.  It may even be a non-profit group...

YOU'RE AN ARCHITECT?!  SHUT UP!  What is your area of practice?

Sounds like a fun idea.  There are many bargains out there and it would give us all something constructive (no pun intended) to do!

I'd be interested in helping with this cause, both monetarily and via time/resources.

This does sound interesting and I don't think there is much required to start an LLC.  I have done it.  It was a few years ago, but if I recall correctly, all you have to do is fill out some paperwork for the secretary of state and name officers.  I started an LLC without any legal assistance.  I would also be interested in this as an investment, I don't have a ton of money, but I would be willing to put some together.

I would be down for investing in this if we can gather some serious dedicated people to get it going so keep me on the list. I live in California but born in Cleveland and have always loved the place.

I plan on doing something similar to this in the coming years, once I've built up some capital, here in Cincy...although it won't be with other forumers most likely (no offense).  In a nutshell I think it's a great idea.  Good luck.

I think this is a great idea and you couldn't pick a better time to find fix 'em up's. I'd like to start something like this in Toledo in the near future. I'm a carpenter and I spend a lot of time in Cleveland, so I'd be interested in helping this thing get off the ground ( I don't have a lot of spare cash right now, but I could contribute my carpentry skills :-))

No offense dude, but there's no need to wait for others.  You can nail those boards (literally) like joining Habitat for Humanity.  Find out, and show up at neighborhood cleanups.  What happens then, is you network and build relationships with CDC's and residents.  Who knows, you could even join an established CDC and make a REAL difference because they have the money.  Doing it yourself or with a small group of people is difficult.  You need to do a lot of research, obtain the right information, and have quite a bit money to invest in repairing a home with people that you trust.  I have some experience in community development...it's very difficult and you will encounter many unknowns that will complicate a project.

 

My point is that it's extremely difficult to initiate change on an internet discussion board and get people to contribute money or at the very least show up.  Keep thinking big, but look in the right direction first. 

I agree Hayward.  I would like to see this energy here turned towards something.  But a house, even a single house, is a complex and expensive proposition.  I say that as someone who also has CDC experience.  It's very easy for something unforeseen to put you several thousand under.  And in Cleveland's market, there's little room for profit while making the kind of improvements that would be necessary to truly stabilize the housing stock you might get your hands on, as opposed to just making a few cosmetic improvements.  That's why it takes a nonprofit to do it.  It loses a lot of money, almost always.

Murray Hill, you are correct (my apologies fellow Clevelanders), I was just anticipating the worst...  As for complexity, I started an LLC two years ago, it cost me $125.00 with the secretary of state. 

 

I know its difficult but we could approach the county landbank, layout our plan and I would not be the least bit taken aback if they would give us a DEAL on one of these babies.  I just bought 1823 Woodlawn Avenue in East Cleveland for $2,500.00 and it needs about $5-7k rehab.  Total sunk costs, $9.5k.  Duplex at say even very low rents, 2b/1b at $350... $700 for both.  Cost of house and rehab made in about 1.3 years...

 

Regardless if people want to join I am doing this as a private LLC, all I am suggesting that if people want to attempt to make something happen then lets do it.  Whether that be we all call up habitat for humanity or make our own LLC it doesn't matter. 

 

Hayward, I already have begun.  I called the East Cleveland City hall and asked them to set up a time to go over my vision for Woodlawn Ave (I want to buy the whole half of the street).  My main problem is this, you say go to the CDCs etc and thats all well and good but you forget these people are beurocrats.  Red tape, take FOREVER, chronism, inside deals... I don't have the patience nor the tact to deal with people like that for more than 5 minutes. 

 

X, I understand your point and I agree.  I must say though, nonprofits are exactly that... they aren't sharks like me or most private companies... takes a shark to make it in these waters!

 

Perhaps I will just post a thread detailing some referbs I take on and maybe if enough people see that with the right discipline and due dilligence, it is possible to do this as a hobby and make it happen.

 

At the end of the day I don't really want to go through established organizations because they had their shot and they have shown their incompetence.  (kind of like democrats in cuyahoga county, corrupt rats)  These clowns can go blow someone else's money, I will manage mine and I assure you I will have better returns.  Time will tell. 

 

So who all is at least willing to sit down and have a meeting to discuss this?

 

 

p.s. i am not opposed to a non profit designation with proceeds going to support good causes... throw out ideas.

Jpop, you are right I did suggest an art project.  That was when I was juggling going back to school... but now that finances have led me to drop out of Ohio State, that is no longer an issue.  :)  Thanks for keeping me honest!

I would like to look into something like this but think it may be tough in terms of logistics.  Chris and I are located in the southern end of the state and I don't believe Shawn has the time to be involved with a project such as this which requires alot of time and effort. 

First and foremost, I think you're onto something good - there are a lot of things to hash out, and I don't know that UrbanOhio should be an official endorser but at the very least - it can serve as a venue to help recruit for the effort.

 

"At the end of the day if you just want to bash my idea then please don't post."

I don't know if it's a generational thing or what, but I've noticed that sometimes a forumer will post something - sometimes idealistic, sometimes really uninformed and the moment someone steps up and says "sounds great but did you know that _______?", they get criticized for being a "naysayer" and "the reason this city sucks" when in reality they're simply pointing out potential obstacles or stark facts as to why their idea may or may not work. It's one thing if that person says "your idea's stupid - no one would support that in Cleveland"; but when someone provides statistical facts as to why there's not sufficient market demand for say, a 100-story office tower on Public Square, or perhaps gives a list of potential issues for a project like the one you're suggesting - the last thing you should do is shut out legitimate criticism. 

As they say, "If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people.  If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you."

 

I like your thinking though and wish I had the resources to be a part of it.

NOTE TO ALL READERS: you are placing too much weight on my original posts' last sentence.  It was meant as a buffer from the usual diatribe that usually becomes of these idea based threads.  I appreciate your sentiments RE: mayday et al and too be fair I SHOULD have opted for a more mature and professional closing if I wanted my idea to be taken seriously.  That being said, we all make mistakes so let that be a lesson I will not have to be taught again.

 

UPDATE: This is not easy, I almost closed on a property in East Cleveland, 1823 East Woodlawn Ave... I went to the E. Cleveland Dept of Housing, VERY NICE PEOPLE (THANK YOU: Velma Knight, Anthony Houston, Duane Felix) they were very receptive to new faces in the "game" and were more then happy to give me ALOT of pointers.  Anyways, the property was declared a public nuisance and the previous owner had just been given 30 days to appear in front of them. 

No wonder I found it on Craigslist for almost nothing... back taxes, public nuisance... lead paint!  Haha!  I know this will  not be easy but I am determined.  I will continue to update and when people see my success I am confident we can get enough people/resources to make it happen.  Thanks for your advice UO community.  Keep it coming.

P.S. the previous owner who tried to screw me was Donna Tullar from InvesTuscon LLC from Arizona... don't to business with those schemers.  I will make A POINT of being there the day her company is called before E. Cleveland Housing Dept... bring some pop corn and enjoy the fireworks.

P.S. the previous owner who tried to screw me was Donna Tullar from InvesTuscon LLC from Arizona... don't to business with those schemers.  I will make A POINT of being there the day her company is called before E. Cleveland Housing Dept... bring some pop corn and enjoy the fireworks.

 

I would add to this that it's best to not do business with any out-of-town entity.  Most everybody (with a very few exceptions) who bought troubled property while living elsewhere was looking to flip their "investment."  Stay far, far away from these folks.  Far better to purchase from a local, although this provides no guarantee, either.

 

Second piece of advice: Partner with a CDC in the neighborhood where you want to invest.  Better yet, find a good CDC first (regardless of the neighborhood) and then find the house.  Hayward is right when he advises building a relationship with a CDC.  They have folks who make a living helping folks like you.  For the kinds of property that you seem to be seeking, I'd check in with the eastern Cleveland CDCs: Northeast Shores CDC (covering Collinwood), Burten Bell Carr CDC (Central), St. Clair Superior, Slavic Village, or Fairfax Renaissance.  Have a sit-down with the real estate/development directors of these places and get to know them.  They'll be tons of help.

 

(EDIT: Just read what you said regarding CDCs.  They aren't usually "bureaucrats."  In fact, they are there to help cut through the red tape.)

NOTE TO ALL READERS: you are placing too much weight on my original posts' last sentence.  It was meant as a buffer from the usual diatribe that usually becomes of these idea based threads.  I appreciate your sentiments RE: mayday et al and too be fair I SHOULD have opted for a more mature and professional closing if I wanted my idea to be taken seriously.  That being said, we all make mistakes so let that be a lesson I will not have to be taught again.

 

UPDATE: This is not easy, I almost closed on a property in East Cleveland, 1823 East Woodlawn Ave... I went to the E. Cleveland Dept of Housing, VERY NICE PEOPLE (THANK YOU: Velma Knight, Anthony Houston, Duane Felix) they were very receptive to new faces in the "game" and were more then happy to give me ALOT of pointers.  Anyways, the property was declared a public nuisance and the previous owner had just been given 30 days to appear in front of them. 

No wonder I found it on Craigslist for almost nothing... back taxes, public nuisance... lead paint!  Haha!  I know this will  not be easy but I am determined.  I will continue to update and when people see my success I am confident we can get enough people/resources to make it happen.  Thanks for your advice UO community.  Keep it coming.

 

I am not trying to crush your dream, but want to ask.

 

Are you sure you're prepared for this??? 

 

The above - even to me - sounds like a lot of work.  You must have the $$$$ to be prepared for anything.  If there is lead paint, I bet there are other issues from that era you'll need to deal with.  I bet the wiring, pluming and utility connections are is a mess and I'll bet there is rodent infestation.  You most likely need to gut and update the kitchen, bathroom and install new water heater and heating/cooling systems.

 

Did you go with a Realtor, loan officer and contractor who specializes in dilapidated homes?  What is the current value of homes on that block and withing a five block radius?  What is the most expensive home in that radius?  What is the condition of the homes/lots adjacent to the home you're looking at?

 

I'm not trying to crush your dream but give some guidance.  You have no idea what you're getting into, until you crack open a wall.

FerrariEnzo, I love what you're doing.  I'm a little peeved because some friends and I were hoping to get in there first, but more power to you.  Each person doing this in EC will be better off having more people do it-- largely because of the radius issues MTS just mentioned.  Realistically I may never get to.  But I'm glad you are and I hope more do.

 

On the rejecting legit criticism issue, I don't think that's exactly what was meant here.  There are many times that those "in the know" assume naievete on the part of lesser posters when it may be wildly inappropriate to do so.  It's not so much that people are dashing our ill-informed dreams, it's that we may not be so ill-informed at all, and we would appreciate if that issue kindly vanished.  There may be more than one way to look at a single situation, certainly one on which modern professionals disagree.  Rebuilding the inner city is one of those situations. 

When I think of an UrbanOhio project, I visualize something involving 1) positive marketing campaigns of cities and neighborhoods, or 2) some kind of forum events where a developer or public official will have an informal dialogue with us city enthusiasts.  Ideas like those seem to coincide with UO moreso than physical development.

 

I'd recommend working with a CDC, too.  They'll likely have a sense of what kind of housing is available for a reasonable price because they know their neighborhoods inside and out and are aware of special incentives and how to get them.  They may also be able to connect you with potential buyers or at least help you market your project.  And they can help you navigate the city process and advocate you for in the community and at city hall. 

 

If you meet with a CDC, I'd suggest having yourself together and bringing as much info as possible.  CDCs get a plethora of dreamers coming in that have grand ideas, but no way of accomplishing them.  For you to be armed with a budget (and possibly a pro forma), scope of what needs to be done (and maybe a rough estimate if you're using a contractor), and marketing plan will set you apart from the rest and make them more inclined to spend their scarce time helping you.  But just a heads-up...some may provide technical assistance for free, but others might want to enter into a partnership agreement and collect a small fee when the house is sold.

 

Good luck!

Keep me abreast when the plans/organizations are solidified. I would like to invest

Me too.  I'm flat broke now, but as soon as I am able I would like to get involved.

I like the idea. I would opine that it's a topic to keep active in discussion and planning. The big reservation in a forum setting like this is basically having too many cooks in the kitchen. As far as Urban Ohio grassroots plan, I'd expect that a non-profit enhancement project (think community garden for example) would be more likely to succeed than a for-profit LLC venture. I personally would be interested in both and will keep a look out for updates.

 

An interesting thought that I had after reading this post is the idea that some of the heaviest discussion that goes on here is restaurant related. Wouldn't it be interesting to imagine an Urban Ohio grassroots restaurant or some sort. Think of the possibilities and all the great reviews we'd get from eachother.

A few things to consider on a dilapidated house: bringing it up to code. Many times, when you get a house for next to nothing, it's been left to rot and decay for several years. Like what kinda stuff? Gas lines that froze in the winter, copper pipes stolen by thieves, broken windows, and the list goes on. If the house doesn't have any external problems, that's also not a free ride. Sometimes houses look great on the outside and the inside is a whole 'nother story. Foreclosure's on the sheriff's sale are off limits inside, so many times, it's a buy at your own risk sort of thing. One house I almost bought in Brecksville looked amazing on the outside. When I did my research, I found out it had 25,000 worth of mold damage that had been taken care of, but then the owner bankrupted in the middle of the mold rehabiliation, leaving a large house completely stripped of floors.

 

With that said, buy the right house, do the right work, and you're in the go. You have picked a neighborhood that has potential AND is currently not up many people's alley's. That leaves you with a great deal, but also, it leaves you with the potential for a lot of work.

A few things to consider on a dilapidated house: bringing it up to code. Many times, when you get a house for next to nothing, it's been left to rot and decay for several years. Like what kinda stuff? Gas lines that froze in the winter, copper pipes stolen by thieves, broken windows, and the list goes on. If the house doesn't have any external problems, that's also not a free ride. Sometimes houses look great on the outside and the inside is a whole 'nother story. Foreclosure's on the sheriff's sale are off limits inside, so many times, it's a buy at your own risk sort of thing. One house I almost bought in Brecksville looked amazing on the outside. When I did my research, I found out it had 25,000 worth of mold damage that had been taken care of, but then the owner bankrupted in the middle of the mold rehabiliation, leaving a large house completely stripped of floors.

 

With that said, buy the right house, do the right work, and you're in the go. You have picked a neighborhood that has potential AND is currently not up many people's alley's. That leaves you with a great deal, but also, it leaves you with the potential for a lot of work.

 

Just what I said earlier.  It's going to be a challenge.

Well, I already own a building in Detroit-Shoreway that needs 3 of 4 apartments rehabbed!  I would love to work out some sort of arrangement with anyone interested to invest time, money, skills, etc. for a very generous ROI once an apartment gets rented! 

 

I'd even like to get a trade school involved and have them practice on it!

Just sell it to the DeLeva's....they own the rest of the street as it is.

Oh, don't think they haven't inquired!  They weren't real happy when we bought it.