So what riot is this at OU? 500? You knew OU wasn't going to let Kent State steal the spotlight this year...

 

The weird thing is 2008 was one of the largest, yet calmest Palmerfests ever. Everyone just had a good time and there were only about a dozen fights. There were less than a dozen arrests I think too. That's not bad for 10,000 kids who have all had way too much to drink. What made this year different? No clue, but something changed at OU. My brother said it was pretty ugly. I honestly don't know if I can defend that school anymore. This kind of crap just happens too often. It seems to get worse every year. The sad thing is Six Fest will probably be a repeat of last year. It's next weekend. I imagine the police presence will be huge. They won't be hiring drunken football players for security this year (at least I hope not).

 

The partying at OU is excessive. There were four fests/block parties last week alone. If the kids didn't drink so damn much on a daily basis, I'd argue these things wouldn't happen.

 

Riot police shut down Palmerfest

Dave Hendricks • Web Editor • [email protected]

 

Riot police shut down Palmerfest Saturday night after revelers lit several fires and attacked firefighters and police officers who arrived to extinguish the blaze.

 

At midnight, more than 40 officers from the Ohio University Police Department (OUPD) and the Athens Police Department (APD) sat near Rollerbowl, 28 Palmer St. About 8,000 people - give or take 2,000 - attended this year's alcohol-soaked bash, according to Athens police.

 

MORE AT:

http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=28288

F*cking pathetic. Im all for having a good time and all and am set to graduate this summer from college. Since when is it ever ok to throw objects at police and firefighters?? Dont anyone say im being over sensitive or any other b.s., but if your gonna have a party then go ahead, but i dont see any need to light sh*t on fire and wouldnt get any enjoyment at throwing beer bottles/cans at people trying to protect you and keep you safe. They need to shut this stuff down, if this was going on anywhere else outside a college campus this would be making headline news and you would see a lot worse coming out of it. Theres noway it could happen but i wish they could charge each and every person who threw anything at the police. First kent state, now OU, somethings gotta be done.

You've been silent lately, how's the job hunt?

 

Good, of course MTS will ask why you're not working 4!!!!  Good luck on finding something in your field.

OU is turning into a joke of a school.  How is an employer supposed to take someone from OU seriously when all you hear about is kids burning shit in the street?  I'm in college now, and none of those videos look fun in the slightest.  Those scenes are exactly the reason why I knew I had to go to school in a city, where there is more to do than hang out in a street in some Appalachian town burning my couch.

Dang!  If this stuff happened in Ann Arbor, it would be the end of the world.  I don't think we even have riot police, or at the very least the gear for this type of situation.  Yet we manage to have big block parties, and the party cups scattered about the next day are the biggest concern of the event.

I went to OU and graduated recently. These fest are fun for about an hour in the day, and really start to suck in the evening. All of block parties were peaceful, no problems. There is a strong jackass contingent in Athens, as we can all see. Underage drinking is an issue at every school. Every school is a  "party school" in some ways. Put a mass of 18-21 year old people in small tight-knit community; they're going to drink. I'm certainly not defending the people who throw things and cause violence. There's no excuse for that.

 

If you want to get that drunk, go to a bar. There's something like 25 or 30 less than a mile from that street. That's an entire different discussion.

 

I found a good job about 6 months after I graduated, in Ohio also :wave: Got a great education there. Solid art program. Being concerned about a schools "academic reputation" in terms of job prospects is a joke. They're hiring you and your skills; not a rioter, philanderer, etc...

It's hardly a joke.  If it was, why would people care so much about going to top ranked schools/programs.  Getting an English degree from Harvard or even less famous cliche schools like Northwestern, Georgetown, etc. appears (and is) much stronger than an English degree from Ohio University.

It's hardly a joke. If it was, why would people care so much about going to top ranked schools/programs. Getting an English degree from Harvard or even less famous cliche schools like Northwestern, Georgetown, etc. appears (and is) much stronger than an English degree from Ohio University.

Because they are diluted. It still comes down to your personal abilities. Just my thoughts.

Anyone caught or positively identified as throwing anything at police, or starting fires in this mess should be banned from Ohio public colleges for a period of 10 years.

For once, DanB and I agree on something. And the kids/parents don't get their money back from the colleges so the schools can recoup some of the money spent on having to police that kid.

What a damn shame. To think that it went from something that the Dean of Students attended one year to this. I say let the police department bill OU for the event, then have OU tack it onto student fees for the next year

The kids may complain about excessive force, but they got off easy. Firefighting equipment was standing by, and there are few devices that can clear a street like fire hoses. They're mostly non-lethal, but not entirely; depending on the pressure used, they can deliver a cold drenching or knock the wind out of you and send you flying. Aimed low, they can mow down a mob by knocking people's feet out from under them, sending them sprawling in a torrent of cold water.

OU is such a joke.  A pathetic school (no offense to anyone that went there) that I believe tried building a reputation as a school in the middle of nowhere that is fun to go to, and let it go to far.  All the kids pictured above were probably 100% more responsible when they were in high school.  That's what's sad. 

"I saw a kid's phone on the street (and went to get it), and the police said, 'get out of the way' and then hit me with his horse," said Matt Puma, a University of Cincinnati freshman

 

Here is another problem. I know a few people who go to OU and ive been randomly asked/told throughout the semester that i should come down for Palmerfest. While OU is completely responsible for what happened at the weekend, how many other students were there from other schools and made the situation worse?

The riot looks like it was a sausage fest.

Good, of course MTS will ask why you're not working 4!!!!  Good luck on finding something in your field.

 

Sounds like No. 4 would be on the clean up detail at palmer fest.

 

That looks like a hot phuckin' ghetto mess!

 

I bet non of these juvenile delinquents thinks about the cost after the fact!

 

All those kids and homeowners who let kids in, should be billed for the services!

Great to see Palmerfest regaining its stride. It seemed to be losing momentum after the big crack-down in 2004, the year when I lived on Palmer St., and they had 3 police officers stand in every yard the whole day and night.  Yet the police were caught licking whipped cream off a coed's leg at the house sponsored by Bacardi.     

 

This crowd looks way bigger than I remember it ever being when I was there, the shot of 50 kids on that one roof alone attests to that. It's a shame about all the cell phone cameras though, kids are never going to be able to riot in peace again, and there's not much in this world that really hits the spot like a good old-fashioned couch fire. 

"I saw a kid's phone on the street (and went to get it), and the police said, 'get out of the way' and then hit me with his horse," said Matt Puma, a University of Cincinnati freshman

 

Here is another problem. I know a few people who go to OU and ive been randomly asked/told throughout the semester that i should come down for Palmerfest. While OU is completely responsible for what happened at the weekend, how many other students were there from other schools and made the situation worse?

 

The story is the same with Michigan State's Cedarfest.  People come from all over, sometimes causing the situation to escalate if they have no real incentive to respect their peer's hometown

"I saw a kid's phone on the street (and went to get it), and the police said, 'get out of the way' and then hit me with his horse," said Matt Puma, a University of Cincinnati freshman

 

 

It would be interesting to see how Mr. and Mrs. Matt Puma Sr. handle this!

"I saw a kid's phone on the street (and went to get it), and the police said, 'get out of the way' and then hit me with his horse," said Matt Puma, a University of Cincinnati freshman

 

 

It would be interesting to see how Mr. and Mrs. Matt Puma Sr. handle this!

 

It's funny how the Police are always the bad guy's on college campuses.  You always have some goofy college kid complaining that they used force on them.  Well, maybe if you weren't 20 yo and drunk, you would have realized you told the cop to "F" off.   

^Have you ever been tricked or had a friend tricked by the police?  They pull that crap all the time, then lie about it, and that's who the judge believes in court. 

 

 

 

^Have you ever been tricked or had a friend tricked by the police?  They pull that crap all the time, then lie about it, and that's who the judge believes in court. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I believe that many times people put themselves in situations where they have to be put in check by police. 

 

So many kids these days have a "right to entitlement" attitude or the type of attitude where they say and do anything in their parents home(s) and that attitude flows outside the home.  Those kids think that they can speak to people any way they want.  That is a big part of the problem.

 

In my mind (20 year old mind), I wouldn't be caught at an "event" like this. Why?  Because it spells trouble!  and the last thing I would have wanted was my parents coming to Columbus to get me out of trouble.

 

The story is the same with Michigan State's Cedarfest. People come from all over, sometimes causing the situation to escalate if they have no real incentive to respect their peer's hometown

well, Cedarfest hasn't existed since the 1980's but the point does remain.  When a party like this one gets a reputation for being a huge blow out then people come from all sorts of places and do a lot more damage than the kids at the school. I witnessed this happen at MSU in the late 90's early 00's.

 

I can't imagine a party of 10,000, although i suppose this is actually small potatoes when compared to the tailgating Saturdays at many Big 10 schools.

^Have you ever been tricked or had a friend tricked by the police?  They pull that crap all the time, then lie about it, and that's who the judge believes in court. 

 

Simply put, stay out of the police's way when they are trying to calm an altercation.  It will save you alot of trouble.  They have a job to do, and they don't need drunk 20 yo's getting in their way.  And no, I'm not a cop, nor do I know any.   

^Have you ever been tricked or had a friend tricked by the police?  They pull that crap all the time, then lie about it, and that's who the judge believes in court. 

 

Simply put, stay out of the police's way when they are trying to calm an altercation.  It will save you alot of trouble.  They have a job to do, and they don't need drunk 20 yo's getting in their way.  And no, I'm not a cop, nor do I know any.   

 

I agree.  and I'm not a cop either, but I did sleep with one for 10 years.  lol

^Have you ever been tricked or had a friend tricked by the police? They pull that crap all the time, then lie about it, and that's who the judge believes in court.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I believe that many times people put themselves in situations where they have to be put in check by police.

 

So many kids these days have a "right to entitlement" attitude or the type of attitude where they say and do anything in their parents home(s) and that attitude flows outside the home. Those kids think that they can speak to people any way they want. That is a big part of the problem.

 

In my mind (20 year old mind), I wouldn't be caught at an "event" like this. Why? Because it spells trouble! and the last thing I would have wanted was my parents coming to Columbus to get me out of trouble.

 

Agreed. If you see a fight breaking out, walk away. If you see people around you smoking pot, walk away. If your friends are into illegal sh!t, walk away.

 

You run the risk of getting lumped in with lawbreakers if you hang around with them. Put yourself in the police's shoes. They will round up everyone to ensure peace is restored and then sort them out. Things always go wrong and you could end up getting charged because one of your "friends" may claim you did something just to save his own ass, or a witness swears they saw you doing something illegal.

 

You know how you make sure that doesn't happen? -- stay as far away from the illegal crap as possible. As you walk away, you will suddenly feel safe, secure and smart.

There's no way i'd take part in something like that. In situations like that I believe police have every right to do whatever it takes to solve the problem, especially when things are being thrown and profane things are being yelled. Hopefully some of those kids learn to mature and grow up a little. Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

 

Try telling that to Marius Pontmercy!

There's no way i'd take part in something like that. In situations like that I believe police have every right to do whatever it takes to solve the problem, especially when things are being thrown and profane things are being yelled. Hopefully some of those kids learn to mature and grow up a little. Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

I've seen situations go from bad to worse.  Most of the time i wouldn't blame the cops, but sometimes they really can push things along.  I've seen some peaceful celebrations get broken up by cops and teargas and measures way beyond what was needed.

 

Kids are going to be kids.  That doesn't mean that they can cause property damage and that the police need to just let people get hurt.

There's no way i'd take part in something like that. In situations like that I believe police have every right to do whatever it takes to solve the problem, especially when things are being thrown and profane things are being yelled. Hopefully some of those kids learn to mature and grow up a little. Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

I've seen situations go from bad to worse.  Most of the time i wouldn't blame the cops, but sometimes they really can push things along.  I've seen some peaceful celebrations get broken up by cops and teargas and measures way beyond what was needed.

 

Kids are going to be kids.  That doesn't mean that they can cause property damage and that the police need to just let people get hurt.

 

Sorry I don't agree.  Would those "kids" do that on their parents property/neighborhood?  That's just an excuse, period.  And if this was an event where the majority in attendance were minority students, can you imagine the head lines?  The media would make that out to be a "riot".

There's no way i'd take part in something like that. In situations like that I believe police have every right to do whatever it takes to solve the problem, especially when things are being thrown and profane things are being yelled. Hopefully some of those kids learn to mature and grow up a little. Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

I've seen situations go from bad to worse. Most of the time i wouldn't blame the cops, but sometimes they really can push things along. I've seen some peaceful celebrations get broken up by cops and teargas and measures way beyond what was needed.

 

Kids are going to be kids. That doesn't mean that they can cause property damage and that the police need to just let people get hurt.

 

Sorry I don't agree. Would those "kids" do that on their parents property/neighborhood? That's just an excuse, period. And if this was an event where the majority in attendance were minority students, can you imagine the head lines? The media would make that out to be a "riot".

 

The media did describe it as a riot.  Revisit the title of the article posted.

 

I've never seen one quite like that.  It was just getting bad at OSU in the mid 90s when I was there.  At first it was just a few porches on one street, then each riot got a little bigger.  My view on the police in these things goes both ways.  They do need to contain and control what's going on.  They're expected to. 

 

The problem is that they often escalate riots and make potential allies into enemies by randomly attacking.  I got maced in the face, repeatedly, while attempting to walk home down High Street one night.  I was sober and had nothing to do with the goings on.  And that was far from being the worst thing that happened to someone innocent during what was a tiny little riot, judging by the modern OU scale.

 

It stinks to see this annual riot problem having grown and expanded since then.  I had hoped what I saw was isolated and stupid.  Now it's the norm at so many schools.  Unreal.  As distrustful as I am of campus area police, there's just no way they precipitated all this.  Kids are getting dumber and more hostile. 

There's no way i'd take part in something like that. In situations like that I believe police have every right to do whatever it takes to solve the problem, especially when things are being thrown and profane things are being yelled. Hopefully some of those kids learn to mature and grow up a little. Causing a riot and burning things in the middle of the street is going to get you nowhere.

I've seen situations go from bad to worse.  Most of the time i wouldn't blame the cops, but sometimes they really can push things along.  I've seen some peaceful celebrations get broken up by cops and teargas and measures way beyond what was needed.

 

Kids are going to be kids.  That doesn't mean that they can cause property damage and that the police need to just let people get hurt.

 

Sorry I don't agree.  Would those "kids" do that on their parents property/neighborhood?  That's just an excuse, period.  And if this was an event where the majority in attendance were minority students, can you imagine the head lines?  The media would make that out to be a "riot".

 

The media did describe it as a riot.  Revisit the title of the article posted.

 

 

It would be a riot of different proportions.  Sorry I should have been clearer.

 

 

Sorry I don't agree. Would those "kids" do that on their parents property/neighborhood? That's just an excuse, period. And if this was an event where the majority in attendance were minority students, can you imagine the head lines? The media would make that out to be a "riot".

You don't agree with what? that kids are going to be kids? that the police have to step in sometimes to keep people from damaging property and hurting themselves and others? or that the police can go to extreme measures and escalate a situation?

 

I was at Michigan State when there were riots.  There's much too much to the story to go into here.  I didn't participate and the first ones were bad.  Then the police started breaking up regular parties and going into peaceful celebrations and causing some real problems.

 

The cops needed to break up this party with 10,000 people.  Yeah, i'm sure they did.  But if that story about them busting in a kid's window and knocking down his stuff because he's playing a song that they don't like? well, that's going too far.

 

 

Sorry I don't agree.  Would those "kids" do that on their parents property/neighborhood?  That's just an excuse, period.  And if this was an event where the majority in attendance were minority students, can you imagine the head lines?  The media would make that out to be a "riot".

You don't agree with what? that kids are going to be kids? that the police have to step in sometimes to keep people from damaging property and hurting themselves and others? or that the police can go to extreme measures and escalate a situation?

 

I was at Michigan State when there were riots.  There's much too much to the story to go into here.  I didn't participate and the first ones were bad.  Then the police started breaking up regular parties and going into peaceful celebrations and causing some real problems.

 

The cops needed to break up this party with 10,000 people.  Yeah, I'm sure they did.  But if that story about them busting in a kid's window and knocking down his stuff because he's playing a song that they don't like? well, that's going too far.

 

What does "kids are going to be kids" mean?

 

 

To me, that is an excuse said/given about 18 to 23 year old ADULTS.  You know better, rather, you should know the difference between right and wrong, period.  If you don't know, then possibly your parents did a piss poor job of giving you the necessary "common sense" skills to move forward in life.

 

Why, rather, what is the point of actively participating in a destructive event like this?  Would you do this on your parents block?

 

I would be interested in hearing what the parent(s) of the kids visibly identifiable have to say?

 

The police just randomly started breaking up regular parties?  Humm.  Could it be that the actions early cause concern and that those hosting and attending parties now must suffer the consequences of previous hosts/partiers bad decisions?

The police were interfering with peaceful gatherings, as a matter of policy, 15 years ago in Columbus.  The policy was called "in loco parentis" or in place of your parents.  You had to have an official guest list and you had to have a reception desk in your front yard surrounded by caution tape in order to have a "legal" party within a certain radius of campus.  That stopped nothing and created an Orwellian vibe.  I like to believe later riots could have been avoided if the police had come out and apologized for getting out of hand a few times, for letting the young guys run a little too loose, but everyone stood their ground.

 

The problem is that they often escalate riots and make potential allies into enemies by randomly attacking. I got maced in the face, repeatedly, while attempting to walk home down High Street one night. I was sober and had nothing to do with the goings on.

 

 

I can imagine the situation.  The police have a situation where students are causing trouble.  You come walking down High St. completely sober and innocent of the situation.  The policeman probably confronted you, not knowing anything about you, and instead of being polite, making it clear you are not involved, yes sir, no sir, I will leave right now sir; he probably told you to leave the area immediately and you probably got in his face accusing him of bothering an innocent person. 

 

I doubt that you were casually walking down the street and a policeman maced you in the face for the fun of it.  I would support macing them all and letting the judge sort it out.

What does "kids are going to be kids" mean?

 

 

To me, that is an excuse said/given about 18 to 23 year old ADULTS. You know better, rather, you should know the difference between right and wrong, period. If you don't know, then possibly your parents did a piss poor job of giving you the necessary "common sense" skills to move forward in life.

 

Why, rather, what is the point of actively participating in a destructive event like this? Would you do this on your parents block?

 

I would be interested in hearing what the parent(s) of the kids visibly identifiable have to say?

 

The police just randomly started breaking up regular parties? Humm. Could it be that the actions early cause concern and that those hosting and attending parties now must suffer the consequences of previous hosts/partiers bad decisions?

Well, kids (and i have yet to meet a 21 year old i'd consider to be an adult...more like an adult in training) are going to do stupid things. They're going to follow each other and they're going to party when allowed.  Would they do this at home? certainly not, but at home they're not surrounded by thousands of their peers.  Giant parties happen peacefully all the time (tailgating) and it's unfortunate that some drunks ruin it for the rest.

 

The issue becomes if the police actions are not in line with the expectations of the crowds. If they go and break up fights and make arrests in units where they are leaving most of the partiers alone they can be quite effective and even appreciated by the revelers.  however, if they strongarm it can lead to very ill feelings.  When they create an Orwellian atmosphere (as described by 327) you're basically asking for more trouble.

 

These kids are going to party.  They're going to blow off steam because of where they are and who they are with...or - kids are going to be kids.  There are right and wrong strategies for dealing with it.  The wrong way may be effective in the immediate aftermath, but can lead to animosity and more violence later on.

No excuse.  My kids would have walked away from that situation.  They have in the past.  It is NEVER the fault of the police.  No matter what a policeman asks, be it to turn down the music or leave the area; the direction MUST be followed.  If not, you suffer the consequences, whether you were in the right or not.

Of course Dan, you got me, it was really just me being a punk.  Of course.  I forgot you were standing right next to me at the time.

 

For everyone else, here's what happened:  They typically roped off the High Street sidewalks with steel cables on weeknights.  This facilitated making each side of the street one-way for pedestrians.  In European fashion, you went forward on the left side of the street.  I had been at a friend's house on Norwich and was heading to my place on High at 9th, so I was traveling south on the east side of High.  I was right about where Sully's (Skully's?) used to be, that double-decker arrangement they've since tore down.  It was so crowded, Manhattan like, so all you could do was go with the flow of the people around you-- southward.  It's like this every Saturday.  Not a problem.  At this point I have no idea there's a riot or any such madness.  The actual riot was a block east or so.

 

Everyone in front of me starts screaming and running back toward me.  That doesn't compute, because it's supposed to be one way.  Once I'm at the front of the crowd, I can see a cop who's talking ineffectually into a bullhorn.  He's swaying back and forth like a lawn sprinkler.  My face hurts.  I can't see.  I realize why everyone had turned around, and I follow them, back into the oncoming traffic.  Soon there are more.  Several other cops herd us to a location just down a side street and all of us are maced individually before being allowed to disperse.  No one ever touched me or threatened me with any violence beyond mace.

 

Dan, I support someone macing you.  Every minute of every day.  We'll sort it out afterwards.

What does "kids are going to be kids" mean?

 

 

To me, that is an excuse said/given about 18 to 23 year old ADULTS.  You know better, rather, you should know the difference between right and wrong, period.  If you don't know, then possibly your parents did a piss poor job of giving you the necessary "common sense" skills to move forward in life.

 

Why, rather, what is the point of actively participating in a destructive event like this?  Would you do this on your parents block?

 

I would be interested in hearing what the parent(s) of the kids visibly identifiable have to say?

 

The police just randomly started breaking up regular parties?  Humm.  Could it be that the actions early cause concern and that those hosting and attending parties now must suffer the consequences of previous hosts/partiers bad decisions?

Well, kids (and i have yet to meet a 21 year old I'd consider to be an adult...more like an adult in training) are going to do stupid things. They're going to follow each other and they're going to party when allowed.  Would they do this at home? certainly not, but at home they're not surrounded by thousands of their peers.  Giant parties happen peacefully all the time (tailgating) and it's unfortunate that some drunks ruin it for the rest.

 

The issue becomes if the police actions are not in line with the expectations of the crowds. If they go and break up fights and make arrests in units where they are leaving most of the partiers alone they can be quite effective and even appreciated by the revelers.  however, if they strongarm it can lead to very ill feelings.  When they create an Orwellian atmosphere (as described by 327) you're basically asking for more trouble.

 

These kids are going to party.  They're going to blow off steam because of where they are and who they are with...or - kids are going to be kids.  There are right and wrong strategies for dealing with it.  The wrong way may be effective in the immediate aftermath, but can lead to animosity and more violence later on.

Sorry, that crap doesn't fly with me, nor did it fly with my parents. Sounds like the case of a bunch of people who are playing "follow the leader".  I just cannot agree.  I cannot imagine, calling my parents to say I'm in jail because I was at a party, turned riot, and the police were called in and I was arrested.  I would need to stay in jail to be protected from my father!

 

People, regardless of age (or any other identifier), need to be held accountable for their actions!

I had a bad police experience, and think their behavior could improve, but I'm with MTS on this generally.  People need to calm down.  Rioting is not part of the college experience, and no one should force it to become part of anyone else's college experience.  Kids are getting way out of hand.  You can't blame police actions for the overall escalation when it's all new kids every few years.

>It is NEVER the fault of the police

 

Like when they cite you when you're doing nothing illegal?  Like when they charge you with OVI when you haven't had anything to drink?  When they put my cousin in jail last year and strip searched her for underaged drinking, merely for holding an unopened beer can? 

 

>It is NEVER the fault of the police

 

Like when they cite you when you're doing nothing illegal?  Like when they charge you with OVI when you haven't had anything to drink?  When they put my cousin in jail last year and strip searched her for underaged drinking, merely for holding an unopened beer can? 

 

Well she was in possession of the can, correct?  She should have known better. 

 

Underage drinking is a huge problem on college campuses.  It was bad when I was in college, I didn't live on campus, but I knew people who did and I heard stories of kids laying the foundation for being functioning alchies!

Possessing a can of beer?  She should have known better?  Sounds like you're talking about a 5 year old kid.  Underage drinking is not a huge problem on college campuses.  Draconian enforcement of unreasonable laws is huge problem for free Americans under 21, regardless of where they live or what they do. 

I'm sure there was more to the story.  I'm sure she talked back or did something untoward the directions of the officer.

Possessing a can of beer?  She should have known better?  Sounds like you're talking about a 5 year old kid.  Underage drinking is not a huge problem on college campuses.  Draconian enforcement of unreasonable laws is huge problem for free Americans under 21, regardless of where they live or what they do. 

 

Please!!

How many cops have you met, Dan?  Even the ones I'm friends with don't act as goody-goody as you describe.  Cops tend to be dicks when there's just no cause for it.  I write some of it off as reaction to a difficult job, but that's really no excuse.  It's something we need to work on as a society.

Possessing a can of beer?  She should have known better?  Sounds like you're talking about a 5 year old kid.  Underage drinking is not a huge problem on college campuses.  Draconian enforcement of unreasonable laws is huge problem for free Americans under 21, regardless of where they live or what they do.  

 

Please!!

 

Take away the senseless age taboo and you'd eliminate most of the binge drinking.  Kids aren't taught to repsect alcohol, they're taught to fear it, which creates a need to "conquer" it.  It's poor parenting institutionalized.  It's been noted by many foreigners that our age-focused approach to alcohol is ineffective.