OK, so some people got a bit carried away on the original thread and GOT MY THREAD SHUT DOWN.  Maybe we can all stay a bit more on topic this time around.  The topic of graduating into a job recession is worth discussing, since many on here are in college....

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30564000//

 

Caps, gowns and a reality check

The class of ’09's job search may be longer and less lucrative than in past

 

A few highlights from the article (emphasis mine)...

 

“We went from the hottest job market for graduating seniors in 2008 to the most competitive and coldest job market by Jan. 1, 2009,” said Lee Svete, director of Notre Dame’s career center. “It was like you turned off the spigot.”

http://www.amny.com/media/acrobat/2009-05/23136028.pdf

I couldn't cut and paste this article.  It came up as garbage on the screen.

I've been out of school for over a year and haven't been able to find anything.  :-( I've considered going back to school but I am not sold on the idea that spending all that extra money (i.e. accumulating that much debt) will pay off.

 

When you say you haven't found anything, do you mean a job or a job in your field?

Article today on msn about this year's college grads....

 

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-1940-College-Internships-First-Jobs-What-the-Class-of-2009-Will-Earn/?sc_extcmp=JS_1940_home1&SiteId=cbmsnhp41940&ArticleID=1940&GT1=23000&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=ae68a5c88ac8498793462b68c270b838-297258760-wm-6

 

What the Class of 2009 will Earn

 

from the article...

 

The National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) released another round of discouraging data in early May. Fewer than one in five graduates who are looking for jobs have found one, and employers are planning to hire 22 percent fewer graduates this year than they did last year.

 

To date, the average job offer to a 2009 graduate with a bachelor's degree is $48,515, down about 2 percent from last year, according to NACE. (Parents who got their first jobs in the early 1980s had it slightly better. The average job offer for the Class of 1982 was $22,450 -- or, adjusted for inflation, $49,485).

 

If you scroll to the bottom of the article, it shows several recent grads, their jobs and salary....

 

Funny thing... none of these grads are 23 or 23 years old.  All are 24 or 25.  Wonder what that means?

 

And none of the people highlighted make the average.  The closest one is a social worker in Miss.

 

 

48g seems INCREDIBLY high

48g seems INCREDIBLY high

 

By Ohio standards, yes.  Actually, by any standard, I think it's high.  But the article pointed out that this is the average for those who got job offers before graudating, which tend to be engineers and CS people.  The remaining 80% can be expected to get starting salaries much lower.  Look at the people highlighted at the bottom of the article... most have starting salaries in the 25-35k range.

I think it was on here that someone said they knew some college graduates in Toledo that were making over a 100K right out of college.

^I'll add my personal experience.  Graduated in December '08 with a Mechanical Engineering degree from UD and a 3.5 GPA.  Accepted an offer for a Cleveland area manufacturing company in October '08 to start in January '09.  Almost immediately after accepting they pushed the start date back to June.  I went out and got a part time job at a fast food place (only work I could find for only 6 months).  A couple weeks ago I was told the start date has been pushed back again until December '09.  Of course this news comes with no guarantee I'll start in December... extremely frustrating.

 

So, I'm back on the interview circut and have found the job market incredibly tough right now.  I applied at Osborn Engineering and learned that they had received over 200 applications in only 3 weeks.  Eaton had received over 270 applications for a single opening in only 2 weeks.  I have several friends that have had offers revoked or start dates pushed back.  Unfortunately for us graduates it's not a good time to enter the job market, but if you can get in somewhere you could climb the corporate ladder faster than normal when business picks back up.

The pharmacists from UT just out of school are making very close, if not over 100k

But then they are pharmacists, just a bunch GDPC's.

The pharmacists from UT just out of school are making very close, if not over 100k

 

Pharmacy is a pretty sweet gig. Demand for their services is only going to go up as people like you get older   :wink:

 

The thing about pharmacy is, aside from cost of living raises, that's what you'll be making your entire career. Not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination, but I think I can do better.....eventually. I'm either an idiot or dillusional. Maybe both.

I'm dating a girl right now that just graduated in pharmacy.  She's landed a job and making $110,000 a year + a sign on bonus + tuition reimbursement.  Seriously, the sign on bonus is about what I'd make in one year with an entry level planning job (that I have yet to get)

 

The only problem that she told me is that you don't get much of a choice as to where you want to go.  Sure these jobs are in demand, but the vacancies in the most interesting cities get filled quickly.  So although we both dream of ending up in Chicago, it's difficult to make the switch between workplaces.

 

I have a very promising lead for an entry level planning job that I hope to get in Detroit.  Hopefully it comes soon because my lease is about to end, and I don't have much left in my checking account. 

 

Heaven forbid I move home with the PARENTS!!! :whip:

Jon, 24

TV news reporter

Mattydale, N.Y.

$25,500

 

Jon, get out of the news industry as fast as you can.....

 

Mattydale is a suburb of Syracuse, NY.  Syracuse NY has Syracuse University (SU), which has the Newhouse School of Communication, considered the top Media school in the country.  Jon undoubtedly interned at a local TV station while attending SU.

 

-oh, and SU is priced like an Ivy League school - $35K/yr to attend undergrad ($20+k for tuition alone, and that was when I left 5 years ago!)

 

Mattydale is kind of a lower-priced neighborhood.  But unlike Toledo, rents in Syracuse are pretty high comparred to salaries.  So he probably lives at home. $25k/ will allow you to take a girl out on an occasional date if you live rent free, otherwise, forget it.

 

It's my belief that most TV reporters get paid squat and move around a lot until they land an anchor position. It's a rather prolonged training period of low pay and high competitiveness.  You basically suffer for many years for the hope of one day hitting the jackpot - not that being a TV anchor is all that big a jackpot.  The pay still aint great, and the hours are out of sync with the rest of society.

I graduated in Spring of '08 from Ohio University after finishing up my student teaching (my last course) the previous fall. Had to take some time off to pay for that 3-4 month stint of not working at all. My major was Art Ed., and that market in particular is dead in Ohio. Something like 5 full time jobs in the State, and a few 1/2 time last year. This years is not much better last time I looked.  I worked as an adjunct at Stivers School for the Arts in Dayton, substituted and finally found a full time job at Wright-Pat last December, though not exactly in my area. Going to school in Ohio to be a teacher is frustrating, unless you are Science, Math, or Special Ed; you will be hard pressed to find anything. I heard they want to extend the minimum retirement age for teachers also. That will keep the market dead for more years to come. I need to find out how to renew a 2 year provisional teaching license while not actually teaching in a Public School. I'll be pissed if I have to go back to school to keep that current. I won't if that's the case. No jobs in it.

 

I feel bad for the people I graduated with and the new grads this year. It was bad when I was looking, but now its awful. Alot of my friends are without work and barely scraping by, and they have degrees in a variety of fields. Most have moved out of Ohio and Dayton and will never return here to live/work. I read a report online somewhere that said the South and West will recover from the recession, but the Rust Belt looks bleak. I find that hard to believe but that's alot of people's perception of Ohio and the region.

 

Ohio has always produced too many teachers for a lot of reasons. Ohio, Western NY, and a couple places in the Great Lakes area produces an outsized percentage of the nation's teachers. At one time, Ohio and a couple other states produced north 50% of the nation's teachers.

 

The only problem that she told me is that you don't get much of a choice as to where you want to go. Sure these jobs are in demand, but the vacancies in the most interesting cities get filled quickly. So although we both dream of ending up in Chicago, it's difficult to make the switch between workplaces.

 

Yes, it seems like pharmacists get into it to work at the big hospitals in NYC but end up at the West Union Kroger in Adams County. Not that it's a bad job or lifestyle, but if you are single and want to go out and meet people...

I don't know if they go from NY to Adams Cty, but a bunch that I know ended up with Walmart. The smart ones are either teaching at another Pharmacy school or doing interesting things in the drug industry away from counting pills (writing for medical journals, medical sales).

^

I will actually be finishing pharmacy school next year (May '10). All of those "other pharmacy jobs" you mentioned are great, but working for a retailer, like Wal-Mart, actually pays the most. People think that all we do in the retail setting is count pills, but we are also responsible for catching drug interactions, we have to make sure the patient knows why they are taking the medication, and how to take the medication.

 

Anyways, since this thread is about graduating in an economic downturn, I can say that everyone I know in the medical field is not really worried right now. However, if things do not improve I am sure that even doctor's, nurses and pharmacists will have a hard time finding work.

We kid the pharmacists because some are jilted lovers of pharmacists - oh the pain.

I feel bad for the people I graduated with and the new grads this year. It was bad when I was looking, but now its awful. Alot of my friends are without work and barely scraping by, and they have degrees in a variety of fields.

 

Same story here. I'm a spring '08 grad from OU as well. Pretty much everyone I graduated with is long out of Ohio save for a handful in Columbus (they found jobs there). The thing is, even before the depression, almost everyone I knew from OU moved out of Ohio. The problem was there long before this happened, but I'd imagine our state is exporting more college grads now than at any time in its history.

 

Ohio exports so many grads. We've many good schools; not so many jobs. I was really close to some teaching positions for Chicago Public but without experience it's tough. Those were rough schools I interviewed for. Would have been exciting and stressful. Maybe in a few years I take a crack at the teaching job market again. Teaching is so much fun and very rewarding. The pay really isn't bad if you know how to budget. Just like any situation.

Ohio has always produced too many teachers for a lot of reasons. Ohio, Western NY, and a couple places in the Great Lakes area produces an outsized percentage of the nation's teachers. At one time, Ohio and a couple other states produced north 50% of the nation's teachers.

 

Very true. Alot of my friends from Ed classes are in Texas, Florida, all over the states. The brutal market for teachers in Ohio is something you don't realize in school and is very hush hush. I wasn't an Education student as much as a BFA student. Took mostly art classes and then the core Education requirements for a license as well Art Ed Methods. Sucks my program got cut in the budget right after I declared. Oh well, it's in the past.

I honestly don't think Columbus is much better off than the rest of Ohio, especially if you are just starting out. My friends there are having very little luck.  Has there been an Ageism discussion? I wonder what everyone's ideas on that are.

Just for reference, April unemployment rates in the Ohio Big-3, per the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

 

Cincinnati: 9.1%

Cleveland: 9.0%

Columbus: 8.2%

 

Oh, and those upstart sunbelt cities we're always jealous of?

 

Atlanta: 9.1%

Charlotte: 11.4%

Dallas: 6.6%

Houston: 6.3%

Jacksonville: 9.2

Las Vegas: 10.4%

Memphis: 9%

Miami: 8.5%

Nashville: 8.7%

Orlando: 9.7%

Phoenix: 6.8%

Portland (ok, not sunbelt, but still often put on a pedestal): 11.6%

San Diego: 9.1%

Tampa: 10.1%

 

Folks, this recession is hitting hard EVERYWHERE, which is why I think we are probably actually seeing a slow-down in the Ohio "brain-drain" right now.  And despite perceptions, maybe we aren't as bad off in Ohio, at least at the moment, as we think we are. 

 

After all, there's always Detroit: 13.6%

 

(Source: http://blog.cleveland.com/business_impact/2009/06/long-metro-unemployment.pdf)

I'm a Chemical Engineering major at Akron.  Most kids I know have something lined up before they graduate, be it through a co op or plans for grad school.  The chair of our department told me that 97% of our graduating seniors have jobs lined up before graduation. 

 

I'm willing to relocate somewhere if I need to, but I'd love to stay in Cleveland if I had the opportunity to.

^Most of the people I know had jobs lined up too (at Dayton they claimed 99% of engineers had jobs before graduation)... then many of them had offers rescinded or start dates pushed back.  In this recession you can't get comfortable after you get a job offer like I did.  Keep interviewing and keep all your options open.

People think that all we do in the retail setting is count pills, but we are also responsible for catching drug interactions, we have to make sure the patient knows why they are taking the medication, and how to take the medication.

 

I can believe this, as I am frequently asking my pharmacist questions about meds, including OTC ones.  Plus, they have to deal with the public and insurance companies on a regular basis.  I figure that alone is problem tough work.  I don't see them as just pill counters.

One of the important points to take from the latest messages, is to major in something useful.

^Or use your education and start a small business.

^We have to remember the amount of manufacturing jobs lost during the 2001 recession.  Cleveland gained 100,000+ jobs during the 90s, only to lose 80,000+ manuracturing jobs during the 2001 recession.  Another note is that health care did not become the leading industry in Cleveland until after that particular recession.  Part of the reason Cleveland isn't doing as badly as before is definitely because of the loss of manufacturing in the region from past recessions. 

^^ Dayton has had a strong auto presense as well, but it's fading now.

 

GM had an assembly plant in Morraine (Chevy Trailblazzer) that recently closed.

GM Delco Electronics is headquartered in Dayton, I think.

There are still a number of current/former GM parts plants in the area.

There are some Honda suppliers as well since I-75 is not that far from the Marysville assembly plants.  Most of these are north of Dayton, but probably count in the MSA.

 

And then there are a lot of machining shops in Dayton, which are probably tied in to some degree with the auto industry.

 

What keeps Dayton going is the air force base, of course.  That is a steady employer, with a large number of off-base support and research companies tied to it.

 

It's hard to imagine Wright-Patt closing, but just think for one brief nano-second what that would do to Dayton.  On second thought - don't even go there.

 

 

Dayton of course has UD and Wright State, whose combined size is roughly half that of OSU, but nevertheless are solid employers. 

 

By comparison Michigan's situation is a mess, with neither Michigan or Michigan State being located in Detroit. 

 

Incidentally, Miami University was originally supposed to be in Hamilton County, about ten miles north of downtown Cincinnati.  If it had in fact located there and grown into something like what it is now, Cincinnati would have between it and UC a college population equaling OSU.  Instead they illegally did not set aside land for it in the 1790's and it ended up in Butler County on the Indiana border. 

Incidentally, Miami University was originally supposed to be in Hamilton County

 

Uuhh... everything I've read said it was supposed to go in Lebanon (Warren County).  That's why they built a road from the original state capital (Chilocothe) to Lebanon (now sr 123).  The first group of people picking the site of the school met in Lebanon and decided to put it there.  However, the state did nothing for a year, then approprated 640+ acres in what is now Oxford as land to tax to pay for the school.  The following year the people responsible for Miami U just went ahead and built it on the Oxford land - illegally as you said.

 

Now, back on topic......

 

I think that Universities are not much of an economic engine these days.  They were a hundred years ago, but now most research is conducted by businesses, not universities.  There have been attempts to re-energize Universities with the advent of business incubators often associated with them, but I think that after a decade, the results have been disappointing.

 

If you look at almost any city, you will see that public employment is the major employment of the area  - from city/county government rolls, to Schools systems, to Hospitals, to military bases.

 

As to the point that Dayton is so heavily publicized in the nature of its employment, I always thought that title went to either San Diego or Norfolk.

 

 

 

The road was then built on from Lebanon to Oxford.  It's called Greentree road as it leaves Lebanon to Middletown.  Then it becomes Oxford State road as it passes on the south side of the Armco works.  Then it becomes sr 73 from Excello (sw of Middletown) to Oxford.

 

Miami was originally supposed to be in the Symmes Purchase, in what is now Springfield Township (Tri-County Mall, Glendale, etc.). Symmes was I believe sued for a variety of reasons, and the land for the university was hardly a tertiary, let alone an ancillary concern, and drifted north. UC was a city university before becoming a state university at some point.

UC was a city university until July 1, 1977 when it joined the university system of Ohio.

Law school is a whole different gamble than undergrad. It is also one of the professions that the reality of the work is the furthest from the cultural perception of it. It is a lot of long, hard hours of decidedly unsexy work. The problem with historians and lawyers, is that they want to be the other. Historians look longingly at the law and wish they could have that kind of marketable degree and lawyers look at historians spending all day reading and thinking about the past as the most wonderful thing. I speak as a historian with many lawyer friends.

To me, that was just another example of people making poor choices and blaming "the system".  or at least the author is blaming the system.  I have an idea - don't go to a private, expensive law school if you can't afford it.  Perhaps go to a less expensive, in state public law school.  Or get a job and go part time.  Or don't go.  Any are better than going into loads of debt.

 

I just finished graduate school.  I couldn't afford to go full time on my own and I didn't want to take on any debt.  So I looked into tuition assistance from work.  They offered 10k per year.

 

Now, I could have gone to Case which is probably the best regarded program locally, but 10k wasn't going to cover the cost of even part time tuition.  Same with John Carroll or BW.  So I chose Cleveland St...and got my education for free.

 

The lesson - be smart with the choices you make and take accountability for your life and life decisions.

A lot of colleges start taking away scholarships and financial aid after you start also. Maybe I should have researched it even more but I did plenty of research right after high school and really had no advice from anyone on what to do. I applied to all the colleges I wanted and UD offered me the most aid and made my college tuition slightly higher than CSU's at the time and I thought it was a good deal for college that had engineering since Case was too expensive for me.

 

After the first 2 years though I had to cover about 16 thousand more than initially thanks to 5-8% increases in tuition per year, room and board increases and more engineering charges as well as lower scholarships, including some which were completely eliminated by the school for everyone. If I were to do it again I probably would have just went to CSU instead because they have a decent program would have been cheaper even if I paid the full tuition each year.

 

Hopefully the investment pays off soon because I just graduated and my loans are going start coming in a few months.

 

Anyone have a need for a computer engineer or know of anyone who would..........

I don't know anything about private loans, because I got the Stafford loans.  I lucked out and consolidated in 2001 at 2.4%, or something obscenely low like that.  I went to grad school for free and had a stipend, but I still took out some money for living expenses at 5.5%. 

 

The silver lining to college loan debt is that many are learning at a tender age what a big deal debt is and won't go into debt again after climbing out from under their student loans.  If I had to do it again, I'd have worked for a year or two on a freighter or in the army to save up $30,000 cash before college, put it in a CD or money market, then taken out loans while in school.  That way I'd have had cash when I first got out of school instead of having to charge stuff. 

 

The thing is, when you're in school, and especially when you're in grad school, you think that degree is a big deal. Then you get out and nobody cares and you could have bought a 5 series BMW with that monthly payment.