May 27, 200916 yr Truthiness aside, it's illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages. Period. Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. Please cite a source. thanks
May 27, 200916 yr Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. So you think all kids at this graduation party will be under direct guardianship of an adult at the party? Of course that may be the case, but you'd have to be living in a fantasy world if you actually think that it probably will be the case.
May 27, 200916 yr But she knows damn well that she CANNOT and WILL NOT drive under any circumstances once shes had a drink. And if she has then she is to call me if she needs a ride, regardless of time of day or where she is at. That's good, and you know that because you're close to her. If you were inviting 100 kids to a graduation party, I guarantee you that you couldn't know that about each one of them, though.
May 27, 200916 yr http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.69 ORC 4301.69 (E)(1) No underage person shall knowingly order, pay for, share the cost of, attempt to purchase, possess, or consume any beer or intoxicating liquor in any public or private place. No underage person shall knowingly be under the influence of any beer or intoxicating liquor in any public place. The prohibitions set forth in division (E)(1) of this section against an underage person knowingly possessing, consuming, or being under the influence of any beer or intoxicating liquor shall not apply if the underage person is supervised by a parent, spouse who is not an underage person, or legal guardian, or the beer or intoxicating liquor is given by a physician in the regular line of the physician’s practice or given for established religious purposes.
May 27, 200916 yr Truthiness aside, it's illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages. Period. Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. Please cite a source. thanks Here you go: http://www.alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/index.asp?Type=BAS_APIS&SEC=%7BB7EBF080-DB1F-4092-9897-E3F083BB3075%7D
May 27, 200916 yr ^A minor is only allowed to drink an alcoholic beverage if furnished by THEIR parent. Period. You can give your daughter a bottle of Vodka and let them drink it in an hour and no one can do anything about it, but you cannot let their friend have a shot. As for your situation... you definitely shouldn't let your daughter go. But, I also wouldn't try and bust the party, because it's just not worth it. These are the last moments of her high school career, and she won't want to be remembered as the "kid whose dad busted so-and-so's grad party" at every get-together with members of her high school class. If the fact that alcohol was displayed in such an obvious manner, surely news will get to the authorities soon enough.
May 27, 200916 yr I know my cousin who is 17 drinks on the weekends but im not snitching on her, not even to my aunt and uncle. But she knows damn well that she CANNOT and WILL NOT drive under any circumstances once shes had a drink. And if she has then she is to call me if she needs a ride, regardless of time of day or where she is at. What you are missing with your cousin ( at least you didn't mention it) is the time she decides she has had a drink, but won't bother you and accepts a ride from a drunk friend. If something should happen, you unfortunately will have to live with your actions, and explain to her parents why you decided her drinking was ok.
May 27, 200916 yr I know my cousin who is 17 drinks on the weekends but im not snitching on her, not even to my aunt and uncle. But she knows damn well that she CANNOT and WILL NOT drive under any circumstances once shes had a drink. And if she has then she is to call me if she needs a ride, regardless of time of day or where she is at. What you are missing with your cousin ( at least you didn't mention it) is the time she decides she has had a drink, but won't bother you and accepts a ride from a drunk friend. If something should happen, you unfortunately will have to live with your actions, and explain to her parents why you decided her drinking was ok. Yep, sorry i left that part out......She knows not to get in the car with anyone who has been drinking either. I told her id be more than happy to pick her up and anyone else relying on that person to drive them home.
May 27, 200916 yr ^A minor is only allowed to drink an alcoholic beverage if furnished by THEIR parent. Period. You can give your daughter a bottle of Vodka and let them drink it in an hour and no one can do anything about it, but you cannot let their friend have a shot. As for your situation... you definitely shouldn't let your daughter go. But, I also wouldn't try and bust the party, because it's just not worth it. These are the last moments of her high school career, and she won't want to be remembered as the "kid whose dad busted so-and-so's grad party" at every get-together with members of her high school class. If the fact that alcohol was displayed in such an obvious manner, surely news will get to the authorities soon enough. Who cares what those other kids think? That part of our youths' problem today! People are so concerned to "protect" their kids from being singled out by other kids over BS. If I had a dollar for everything, I thought someone else would think of me, when I was a kid, I'd be billionare! Some of you kids couldn't have survived in my day. My grand father would have made you cry everytime he opened his mouth.
May 27, 200916 yr Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. So you think all kids at this graduation party will be under direct guardianship of an adult at the party? Of course that may be the case, but you'd have to be living in a fantasy world if you actually think that it probably will be the case. Do I think every child at that party will have their parents present and accounted for? Of course not. I never said or implied that. What I did say is that it's legal for a parent or guardian to supply alcohol to a minor, so long as that minor is their child.
May 27, 200916 yr I know my cousin who is 17 drinks on the weekends but im not snitching on her, not even to my aunt and uncle. But she knows damn well that she CANNOT and WILL NOT drive under any circumstances once shes had a drink. And if she has then she is to call me if she needs a ride, regardless of time of day or where she is at. What you are missing with your cousin ( at least you didn't mention it) is the time she decides she has had a drink, but won't bother you and accepts a ride from a drunk friend. If something should happen, you unfortunately will have to live with your actions, and explain to her parents why you decided her drinking was ok. Yep, sorry i left that part out......She knows not to get in the car with anyone who has been drinking either. I told her id be more than happy to pick her up and anyone else relying on that person to drive them home. What does she do the day you're drunk, can't or shouldn't drive?
May 27, 200916 yr Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. I actually had a brain fart, and what I should've typed was "It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages IF said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult." But I'm sure you figured that out. Actually I think you were right the first time. Either way, only kids whose parents are there serving them could legally have alcohol, and they each would have to be served by their own parent.
May 27, 200916 yr I know my cousin who is 17 drinks on the weekends but im not snitching on her, not even to my aunt and uncle. But she knows damn well that she CANNOT and WILL NOT drive under any circumstances once shes had a drink. And if she has then she is to call me if she needs a ride, regardless of time of day or where she is at. What you are missing with your cousin ( at least you didn't mention it) is the time she decides she has had a drink, but won't bother you and accepts a ride from a drunk friend. If something should happen, you unfortunately will have to live with your actions, and explain to her parents why you decided her drinking was ok. Yep, sorry i left that part out......She knows not to get in the car with anyone who has been drinking either. I told her id be more than happy to pick her up and anyone else relying on that person to drive them home. What does she do the day you're drunk, can't or shouldn't drive? Ill find her someone then. If im out theres always someone who hasnt been driving, and if thats the case ill have them drive me to pick her up, then give them 20 bucks or buy them a couple rounds next time were out.
May 27, 200916 yr Why is this difficult? It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages UNLESS said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult. I actually had a brain fart, and what I should've typed was "It is NOT illegal to furnish minors with alcoholic beverages IF said minors are not under the direct guardianship of the adult." But I'm sure you figured that out. Actually I think you were right the first time. Either way, only kids whose parents are there serving them could legally have alcohol, and they each would have to be served by their own parent. This is what I get for trying to post while working. I have no idea what happened, but I think I misread what I originally posted, corrected, read it again and saw that it was correct the first time, blah blah blah... But yes, you are correct. Is it likely that every child's parent is present, okaying their children's alcohol consumption? No, probably not. But it would be legal. That was my main point.
May 27, 200916 yr Do I think every child at that party will have their parents present and accounted for? Of course not. I never said or implied that. What I did say is that it's legal for a parent or guardian to supply alcohol to a minor, so long as that minor is their child. Correct, but that doesn't really apply to this situation.
May 27, 200916 yr I stand corrected in light of the law cited. I can't wait to see the snapshots of everybody getting shitfaced with their respective legal guardians. PARTAY!
May 27, 200916 yr There really is no "right" or "wrong" thing to do in this situation. And your picturing a child dying in a DUI as a result of you not telling anyone is a bit melodramatic, wouldn't you say? You can't control what other people do, and it's really not your business what they do. Control your own daughter as you wish, but don't think you have to be the moral authority for everyone else. And MTS, just because you grew up in a strict household doesn't mean that every one that didn't has inferior morals, or an inferior up bringing. What I usually do in a situation like this is to do what I would want another parent to do if my child was involved. I don't care if anyone is embarrassed, but I would praise any other adult for preventing my child from doing something stupid.
May 27, 200916 yr now that we have it spelled out in black and white, err or make that black and uo-style light blue (coming soon to a sherwin-williams store near you :wink2: ), the law clearly says you cannot serve alcohol to minors. nice try, but the exceptions do not apply here.
May 27, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? :roll: :roll: :roll:
May 27, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? ::) ::) ::) Edale, how can there be adult supervision at a public park. If the kids get a hold of some hooch, they're not going to do it in the main space the party is being held (at least I hope these kids aren't that stupid). They are going to go someplace else in the park. what is your definition of a "formal party"? don't even try to bring gay marriage into this. You're comparing mangos to kiwi fruit! Lets review. Kids being served alcohol regardless of venue is illegal.
May 27, 200916 yr ^Agreed it's illegal. That's why I said from the beginning that DanB is completely correct in deciding on whether his daughter can or cannot go. I just think this is generally making a mountain out of a mole hill. Stop trying to play moral authority, and let these highschool graduates aka ADULTS and their parents make their own decisions, and live with their own consequences. I would think that a person who seems to always advocate personal accountability/responsibility would share this view... I know that gay marriage and underage drinking are two completely seperate issues, but the premise of getting involved in other people's business and strict adherence to the law is the same.
May 27, 200916 yr ^Agreed it's illegal. That's why I said from the beginning that DanB is completely correct in deciding on whether his daughter can or cannot go. I just think this is generally making a mountain out of a mole hill. Stop trying to play moral authority, and let these highschool graduates aka ADULTS and their parents make their own decisions, and live with their own consequences. I would think that a person who seems to always advocate personal accountability/responsibility would share this view... I know that gay marriage and underage drinking are two completely seperate issues, but the premise of getting involved in other people's business and strict adherence to the law is the same. Not all high school graduates are adults. ;) Hence, why it's important for Dan to make sure that there is no underage drinking by speaking with the parents.
May 27, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? ::) ::) ::) Edale, how can there be adult supervision at a public park. If the kids get a hold of some hooch, they're not going to do it in the main space the party is being held (at least I hope these kids aren't that stupid). They are going to go someplace else in the park. what is your definition of a "formal party"? don't even try to bring gay marriage into this. You're comparing mangos to kiwi fruit! Lets review. Kids being served alcohol regardless of venue is illegal. False.
May 28, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? ::) ::) ::) Edale, how can there be adult supervision at a public park. If the kids get a hold of some hooch, they're not going to do it in the main space the party is being held (at least I hope these kids aren't that stupid). They are going to go someplace else in the park. what is your definition of a "formal party"? don't even try to bring gay marriage into this. You're comparing mangos to kiwi fruit! Lets review. Kids being served alcohol regardless of venue is illegal. False. Then please tell me the name and location of any venue that can serve alcohol to minors? And please no juke joints or moonshine palaces that you folks down in southern ohio feel is apart of your culture. :-D
May 28, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? ::) ::) ::) Edale, how can there be adult supervision at a public park. If the kids get a hold of some hooch, they're not going to do it in the main space the party is being held (at least I hope these kids aren't that stupid). They are going to go someplace else in the park. what is your definition of a "formal party"? don't even try to bring gay marriage into this. You're comparing mangos to kiwi fruit! Lets review. Kids being served alcohol regardless of venue is illegal. False. Then please tell me the name and location of any venue that can serve alcohol to minors? And please no juke joints or moonshine palaces that you folks down in southern ohio feel is apart of your culture. :-D Like I've mentioned about a million times now, a parent can give alcohol to their kid. Ergo, it's NOT illegal to furnish alcohol to minors, albeit in some situations. Oh, and churches. :)
May 28, 200916 yr Whatever, there seems to be a gap here (be it generational, difference in upbringing, etc.) and it doesn't seem like people will agree on this. Most grad parties aren't "wild drunk fests" with 100 kids, Jam40jeff. I don't know how or why you're making that assumption, but it doesn't seem very valid. At least at this party there will be adult supervision, and the kids will be in a contained space. Kids are going to drink regardless of whether or not they're at a formal party, and I think it's better that kids have place where parents will be to drink rather than just drinking in a parking lot, or even worse, drinking in a car while other kids drive. And it really surprises me to see all this support of blind support of the law, and getting involved in other people's business in defense of strictly upholding laws. This is the same tactic that people use to ban gay marriage. An issue that really isn't anyone's business except the individuals involved is suddenly made a public issue because of what the law says. I guess all of you are in support of not letting gays get married because it's currently against the law, right? ::) ::) ::) Edale, how can there be adult supervision at a public park. If the kids get a hold of some hooch, they're not going to do it in the main space the party is being held (at least I hope these kids aren't that stupid). They are going to go someplace else in the park. what is your definition of a "formal party"? don't even try to bring gay marriage into this. You're comparing mangos to kiwi fruit! Lets review. Kids being served alcohol regardless of venue is illegal. False. Then please tell me the name and location of any venue that can serve alcohol to minors? And please no juke joints or moonshine palaces that you folks down in southern ohio feel is apart of your culture. :-D Like I've mentioned about a million times now, a parent can give alcohol to their kid. Ergo, it's NOT illegal to furnish alcohol to minors, albeit in some situations. Oh, and churches. :) but that complete contradicts the law that was posted, sans churches.
May 28, 200916 yr http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.69 ORC 4301.69 (E)(1) No underage person shall knowingly order, pay for, share the cost of, attempt to purchase, possess, or consume any beer or intoxicating liquor in any public or private place. No underage person shall knowingly be under the influence of any beer or intoxicating liquor in any public place. The prohibitions set forth in division (E)(1) of this section against an underage person knowingly possessing, consuming, or being under the influence of any beer or intoxicating liquor shall not apply if the underage person is supervised by a parent, spouse who is not an underage person, or legal guardian, or the beer or intoxicating liquor is given by a physician in the regular line of the physician’s practice or given for established religious purposes. Read the highlighted & bolded section from the section of the Ohio Revised Code posted by 327. It explicitly states that any prohibitions on the consumption of alcohol does not apply if the underaged person is supervised by a parent, overage spouse, or legal guardian.
May 28, 200916 yr If I didn't know better, you would think I was drinking! How in the hell did I miss that?!
May 28, 200916 yr Moonlight is absolutely right that if a parent is present, then the kids may drink alcohol. I don't think this applies to the original topic though.
May 28, 200916 yr Moonlight is absolutely right that if a parent is present, then the kids may drink alcohol. I don't think this applies to the original topic though. I'll correct that for you: if a parent is present, then THEIR kid(s) may drink alcohol.
May 28, 200916 yr Sorry, that's what I meant. The kids of that parent may drink. The reason I say that doesn't apply here is because I would place a large bet on most of the kids at the party not having one of their parents present.
May 28, 200916 yr Sorry, that's what I meant. The kids of that parent may drink. The reason I say that doesn't apply here is because I would place a large bet on most of the kids at the party not having one of their parents present. Exactly.
May 28, 200916 yr I agree with you... Really the question is: What should DanB do? 1. Let his daughter go 2. Call the parents for more info and decide from there whether to let his daughter go 3. Do not let his daughter go and do nothing more 4. Do not let his daughter go and inform other parents 5. Do not let his daughter go and inform the authorities I'm honestly not sure what to do. (for full disclosure, I'm 22) If the kids are dumb enough to put that on the invitation, they deserve to have the cops bust their asses. Therefore, I'd go with option 5.
May 28, 200916 yr I agree with you... Really the question is: What should DanB do? 1. Let his daughter go 2. Call the parents for more info and decide from there whether to let his daughter go 3. Do not let his daughter go and do nothing more 4. Do not let his daughter go and inform other parents 5. Do not let his daughter go and inform the authorities I'm honestly not sure what to do. (for full disclosure, I'm 22) If the kids are dumb enough to put that on the invitation, they deserve to have the cops bust their asses. Therefore, I'd go with option 5. Call the parents. This isn't rocket science. Call the kid's folks and find out the real story. If everything seems kosher, let the daughter go the party. DanB can even stick around for a while to make sure it's going as planned.
May 28, 200916 yr I do believe, any adults at this party would be liable for allowing minors to drink.
May 28, 200916 yr I do believe, any adults at this party would be liable for allowing minors to drink. Whoever supplied the alcohol is liable, yes. Did you call the folks?
May 28, 200916 yr Issues of alcohol in a park aside, for this party to be on the straight-arrow legal beagle up-and-up, parents would need to be teamed up with their own children every minute alcohol was being consumed. I honestly don't know how much fun that would be for anyone, and that's putting it baby shampoo gently.
May 28, 200916 yr He should show up with Arnold Shwartzeneger and bust some heads! NO...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIfuaUTH9Y4
May 28, 200916 yr All this talk of alcohol and public parks had got me feeling nostalgic. Anyone in the Cincinnati area know of the train track bridge(s) in Ault Park? We used bring cases of beer up there all the time. Ah, youth.
May 28, 200916 yr I do believe, any adults at this party would be liable for allowing minors to drink. yes. assuming the adults are aware and in on it, all adults present. both criminal and civil. something like this would be a lawyer's wet dream.
May 28, 200916 yr DanB should rent a cop uniform and go over to the park, confiscate all the booze and go back home to have his own party.
May 28, 200916 yr I have a similar moral dilemma. I received this email and an unsure what to do: Subject: Abogado De Justicia-Contact my Attorney. From: "Mrs Augusta Hermina Sies"<[email protected]> Date: Tue, March 24, 2009 2:36 am To: Hello Dear, My warm greetings to you. Do take this email as a contribution to fake(Spam). This is not an easy task due to my health condition and that is the main reason why I contacted you after viewing your profile from the international directory. Not actually that you are the best with my intellectual grading but I was driven to contact you from the innermost being. And that was my main reason for getting to you. Please do not be offended and I will understand completely if you cannot be of assistance to me. My name is Mrs.Augusta Hermina Sies; I am a dying woman who has decided to donate what I have to you for humanity services. I am 57 years old (Netherlands Citizen) and I was diagnosed for cancer for about 2 years ago immediately after the death of my husband who has left me everything he worked for and because the doctors told me I will not live longer than some weeks because of my health. I decided to WILL/donate the sum of $1,500 000 (One million, five hundred thousand dollars) to you for the good work of humanity and also to help the motherless and less privilege and also for the assistance of the widows.I wish you all the best and may the good Lord bless you abundantly and please use the funds well and always extend the good work to others. Here is the Contact information of my Attorney below: Abogado De Justicia Notario & Tribunal Mr.Daniel Juan Phone:+34-687-665-538 Email:[email protected] and tell him that I have WILLED $1,500 000 (One million, five hundred thousand dollars) to you and I have also notified him. I know I don't know you but I have been directed to do this. NB: I will appreciate your utmost confidentiality in this matter until the task is accomplished as i don't want anything that will jeopardize my wishes. From Mrs.Augusta Hermina Sies
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