^i'm not following it too closely, but huh?

^Issue 5 passed, 4 was defeated, unless ONN is wrong.

No; issue 4 is well on its way to passing.

 

Yes on 4 trumps Yes on 5.

 

Thanks for tricking us into f-ing with our state constitution, big tobacco.

 

FU*K!

^I'm watching local coverage and boy are the pretty anchor people confused.

 

FU*K!

 

^ONN acts like it is final, I know 4 trumps 5, but if its final...

http://ohionewsnow.com/?story=sites/ONN/content/pool/200611/997774518.html

Different stations are putting up conflicting numbers. I'm going to bed.

You won't be able to sleep.

Oh yeah? Watch.

This thing went the way everyone knew it would, no on 4, yes on 5.

HELL YES!!!

This is so exciting... I was so worried that people would be confused. I guess I didn't give voters enough credit. They figured it out!

 

Imagine going into any bar you want and leaving without reeking of smoke! LOVES IT!!! :mrgreen:

Ohio Public Education is better than I thought.

 

I wonder if the existance of a second option, 4, caused more people to vote yes on 5, when would have turned it down otherwise. It was kind of sold as an either/or deal in that respect.

This is so exciting... I was so worried that people would be confused. I guess I didn't give voters enough credit. They figured it out!

 

Imagine going into any bar you want and leaving without reeking of smoke! LOVES IT!!! :mrgreen:

 

Me too!!!!  I'd like to add, that hopefully, I will no longer be burned by a cig or have smoke blown UP at me!

As a stalwart member of the loyal opposition, allow me to announce that from this day forward I shall be a two pack-a-day Republican gambler.

 

That is all.

As a stalwart member of the loyal opposition, allow me to announce that from this day forward I shall be a two pack-a-day Republican gambler.

 

That is all.

 

On behalf of your respiratory system and gamblers anonymous.....thank you!

*COUGH* No, thank--big money...Big Money...DAMMIT!--you. *COUGH*

New Years Eve is going to be crazy

Next lets go after trans fats

 

Then SUV's

 

 

Then pesticides

 

 

 

Then red meat

 

 

Then alcohol

then caffeine.......

 

I just think it is a slippery slope when you try to legislate other people's behavior.  Yes, I know about the poor single mother, raising 9 kids who can only get a job in the smokiest diner in the world, making minimum wage and the evil bastards who smoke around her.  But right now trans fats are about to be outlawed in NYC, what will be next?

 

 

Thongs I hope. They don't look good on anyone.

there is indeed a slippery slope, and in fact a more sinister undertone to the whole anti-smoking thing. I've said it before, but "health is duty" was a Nazi slogan. The smoking ban contingent, like the Nazi's, really have nothing to do with promoting health. If it was about health, the same zeal by this contigent would be directed towards the automobile industry and the food industry. The reality is, this is about demonization and removing people from civil society. It is just so convenient that smokers tend to be minorities when it comes to race, class and sexual orientation. Also a greater number of artists and foreigners smoke as well. The last thing we should do is further force socially marginalized people into recluse.

Also a greater number of artists and foreigners smoke as well. The last thing we should do is further force socially marginalized people into recluse.

 

they can still smoke in their homes, cars or the street!

 

this hasn't hurt any other state....it actually improved sales at most restaurants in NYC and i'm hearing the same about NJ.

 

I think this is a win-win...and i can't wait to go out in smoke free ohio!

 

So put your lighters up to that!

 

.....that's all!

From the 11/8/06 PD:

 

 

Sweeping prohibition on smoking is adopted

Wednesday, November 08, 2006

Harlan Spector

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Ohio voters embraced a sweeping public smoking ban Tuesday, while overwhelmingly rejecting a competing measure that would have constitutionally protected smoking rights in bars, restaurants and other workplaces.

 

The victory of Issue 5 and defeat of Issue 4 makes Ohio the 15th state to prohibit smoking in virtually all public buildings. The SmokeFree Ohio law takes effect in January.

 

Read more:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/116297832718990.xml&coll=2

 

they can still smoke in their homes, cars or the street!

 

not if you keep raising cigarette taxes.

 

(though as i have mentioned there is stronger connection between public smoking bans and reduction in smoking levels, than a raise in the price of cigarettes and smoking levels.)

 

You know it just occurred to me, that if Studies hold true, issue 18 will now effectively earn 10-15% less in tax revenue for the arts.

no. everyone should feel welcomed in civil society and be allowed to live a public life; not told to go outside, sit in their cars or their homes alone by themselves

I would argue a ban on trans fats is not the same thing as banning cigarettes from public places....but I don't have the patience.

Speaking of smoking in cars, I have a feeling thats next.

no. everyone should feel welcomed in civil society and be allowed to live a public life; not told to go outside, sit in their cars or their homes alone by themselves

 

thats what "smoke buddys" are for!  In addition, for those of you who smoke trees....yall never do that alone!

I would argue a ban on trans fats is not the same thing as banning cigarettes from public places....but I don't have the patience.

 

The strawman says: People can avoid second hand smoke just like people can avoid trans fats. (but government chooses to legislate on it anyway)

I thought laws were about legislating socially acceptable behavior? You can't have sex in public on a park bench.

I thought laws were about legislating socially acceptable behavior? You can't have sex in public on a park bench.

 

Says who??

So I know that even in places that have passed such smoking ban measures, that some places seem to get around the law legally. I wonder what the exemptions included in issue 5 will yield? For instance in New York, Club Macenudo immediately charges patrons for a cigar - and then they are free to eat, drink, smoke cigarettes if they want to. http://www.clubmacanudo.com/. I also remember in San Diego's Gas Lamp Quarter encountering a number of coffee shops/tobacco stores that permitted smoking.

 

"Exempt from the smoking restrictions certain locations, including private residences (except during the hours that the residence operates as a place of business involving non-residents of the private residence), designated smoking rooms in hotels, motels, and other lodging facilities; designated smoking areas for nursing home residents; retail tobacco stores, outdoor patios, private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business"

 

I'm most interested in what was meant and intended for about "family-owned and operated places of business". It seems that a lot of smaller bars are family owned and operated. Would they be exempt?

there is indeed a slippery slope, and in fact a more sinister undertone to the whole anti-smoking thing.

 

Here we go again.

 

I've said it before, but "health is duty" was a Nazi slogan.

 

Again with the Nazis...

 

The smoking ban contingent, like the Nazi's, really have nothing to do with promoting health.

 

Yes, it does: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061012190032.htm

 

If it was about health, the same zeal by this contigent would be directed towards the automobile industry and the food industry.

 

These industries are heavily regulated:

 

http://www.dot.gov/

http://www.fda.gov/

http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome

 

The reality is, this is about demonization and removing people from civil society.

 

No, it's not.

 

It is just so convenient that smokers tend to be minorities when it comes to race, class and sexual orientation.

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

Also a greater number of artists and foreigners smoke as well. The last thing we should do is further force socially marginalized people into recluse.

 

Honkey please.

I would argue a ban on trans fats is not the same thing as banning cigarettes from public places....but I don't have the patience.

 

The strawman says: People can avoid second hand smoke just like people can avoid trans fats. (but government chooses to legislate on it anyway)

 

I'm George Bush and I approve this fallacy.

I'm most interested in what was meant and intended for about "family-owned and operated places of business". It seems that a lot of smaller bars are family owned and operated. Would they be exempt?

 

Nope. Here is the wording for that exemption:

 

© Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter.

huh, interesting and odd. thanks for that wording.

So if a place becomes private and charges a $10 annual membership, would it then be legal to smoke in this establishment?

^ A good workaround. Many cities have "club" liquor licenses for establishments with paid, registered membership. Perhaps said club's bylaws could include a smoking clause.

 

Dream a little dream...

I hope church property would be exempt too. I know that at St. Edward, they always let the ladies smoke in the cafeteria during bingo nights. 

we'll end up just like salt lake city!

 

its either that or I join the elks lodge

I like this story's lead paragraph.

 

Voters send a message: no ifs, ands or butts in Ohio

 

Thursday, November 09, 2006

Harlan Spector

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Despite confusion over two smoking issues on the statewide ballot, voters delivered clear messages - one with a raised thumb and the other with an altogether different hand gesture.

 

That assessment came Wednesday from supporters of the successful American Cancer Society campaign to ban public smoking. The cancer society's SmokeFree Ohio issue won decisively, while Ohioans voted 2-1 against the Smoke Less Ohio campaign waged by the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.

 

Link unavailable.

we'll end up just like salt lake city!

 

its either that or I join the elks lodge

 

Welcome to the herd, brother.

Some said the lopsided vote was repudiation of the North Carolina tobacco company's $5.4 million effort to constitutionally protect smoking rights in Ohio.

 

"It's giving them the finger and saying to the cigarette companies, 'Go somewhere else,' " said Dr. Derek Raghavan, chairman of the Cleveland Clinic Taussig Cancer Center and an outspoken anti-tobacco advocate.

 

Thank you.

we'll end up just like salt lake city!

 

its either that or I join the elks lodge

 

You act like Ohio and Utah are the only states with smoking bans. Here is a list of States that have smoking bans, Florida, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington State, with many cities and counties across the country as well.

we'll end up just like salt lake city!

 

its either that or I join the elks lodge

 

You act like Ohio and Utah are the only states with smoking bans. Here is a list of States that have smoking bans, Florida, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington State, with many cities and counties across the country as well.

 

Florida & Georgia??  Did they just pass legislation at this tuesdays election?

I thought Ohio was the 15th state. Ragerunner lists 17 besides us. Who knows.

Rage Runner have you ever been to salt lake city?

 

there is an extremely large private club scene to get around the state's restrictive liquor laws. Twenty dollar handshakes still do work.

 

thank you, and good day.

we'll end up just like salt lake city!

 

its either that or I join the elks lodge

 

You act like Ohio and Utah are the only states with smoking bans. Here is a list of States that have smoking bans, Florida, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Washington State, with many cities and counties across the country as well.

 

Most of those smoking bans are quite watered down and don't really amount to much. Ohio is the 12th state to enact a smoking ban that prohibits smoking in bars and restaurants as well as in all workplaces.

I think most folks agree that:

 

1) There ought not be a Board of Dietary Review, to which one must submit his weekly meal plan for approval before he can receive his Junk Food Credit quota card

 

...and:

 

2) Even if heroin were legalized, rules against shooting up on school playgrounds are not the herald of the Iron Fist of the Imminent Fascist State.

 

Somewhere between those two extremes, there's a line.  Where ought the line be drawn?  Personally, I think drawing it about where Issue 4 would have drawn it is more reasonable, and I voted appropriately.  But I cannot believe this is some fundamental principles issue - this is about drawing lines in a gray area.  And on such an issue, man do the "fundamental principle" arguments get tedious.

 

I feel like I lost this one, despite not being a smoker anymore - but Jesus am I glad the debate's finally over.  Nothing is more frustrating than people talking past each other...