Ohio Smoking Ban

February 10, 200718 yr

From the 2/7/07 Newark Advocate:

Newark's smoking hut to be removed

By KENT MALLETT

Advocate Reporter

NEWARK -- The city's environmental health director has ordered the Licking County commissioners to remove the smoking hut from the rear of the county administration building.

The commissioners received the order Friday in a letter dated Jan. 26 from Harry Ballinger, the city's director of environmental health. The letter stated the city health department had received complaints about the location and construction of the smoking hut.

Smoking regulations approved by Ohio voters Nov. 7 and that took effect Dec. 7, prohibit smoking in virtually all indoor public places as well as outside near the entrances to public places.

February 10, 200718 yr

From ThisWeek Upper Arlington, 2/8/07:

No big changes expected with state smoking ban

Thursday, February 8, 2007

By CHRIS BOURNEA

ThisWeek Staff Writer

When enforcement of the statewide smoking ban begins later this year, local residents and business owners aren't likely to see much difference from the ban that the city of Upper Arlington enacted in February 2005.

"The good news is, the one Upper Arlington passed is very similar to the state law," said Franklin County health commissioner Susan A. Tilgner, whose agency is responsible for enforcing the Upper Arlington ban.

February 10, 200718 yr

From the 2/9/07 Hamilton JournalNews:

Smoking ban still up in the air

While many places follow the rules, some flout law

By Christopher Magan

Staff Writer

Friday, February 09, 2007

There are two types of establishments in Butler County since a voter approved smoking ban went into effect — places that once allowed smoking and places that still do.

The Ohio Department of Health is still working out the rules for the indoor smoking ban that won't be enforced until spring.

Since it went into effect two months ago, many businesses are abiding by the regulations to remove ashtrays, post no-smoking signs and prohibit smoking. Others have decided to flout the law until enforcement begins.

"We cannot legally enforce the law until the rules are in place. That is why some businesses are not following the law," said Jay Carey, spokesman for the department of health.

February 10, 200718 yr

Lesson learned for future smoking bans

Ohio...a few weeks after the law is voted on, only the people who voted for it actually follow the law

Chicago...An immediate ban on restuarants, a two and a half year wait until all taverns, bowling alleys, etc are subject to the ban. Most of my customers were against the ban when they were debating it. Now that it is still nearly a year away, most are ready for it, some are actually waiting for it.

February 10, 200718 yr

gary nolan sounds a lot like joe jackson's tirade: http://www.joejackson.com/smoking.php

This from a guy who sings about everything giving you cancer.

As an aside, I know several people who have met Joe Jackson, and all agree: behind the scenes and up close and personal, the man is an absolute prick.

But then, I've always been a much bigger fan of Tito.

February 10, 200718 yr

I'm more of a jerome man myself.

February 12, 200718 yr

Smoking proving to be a tough habit to break

Lacking enforcement of new law, some bars still allow patrons to light up

By KYLE KONDIK

If indoor smoking has been banned in Ohio, why are people still lighting up in bars all over the county?

In approving State Issue 5, or “Smoke Free Ohio,” in November, Ohio voters agreed to end indoor smoking in nearly all enclosed public places.

But, thanks to an agreement between Ohio’s Department of Health and Ohio’s bar and restaurant owners, the state agreed not to punish any person or business that broke the law.

C'MON KYLE, YOU KNOW YOU WANNA!!!!

February 14, 200718 yr

From the 2/12/07 (UT) Independent Collegian:

UT enforces smoking ban

IC Staff

Issue date: 2/12/07 Section: News

Last December, voters chose to ban something about which a lot of people have mixed feelings - smoking.

Last election's Issue 5 called for smoking regulations. When passed, the Ohio Revised Code Chapter 3794, which became officially effective on Dec. 7, 2006, banned smoking in public places and places of employment. The regulations also called for "No Smoking" signs with the telephone number 1-866-559-OHIO (6446) on them for reporting violations to be posted at these locations.

February 21, 200718 yr

From the 2/17/07 Lima News:

Health officials hoping for smoking ban cooperation

BY BART MILLS - Feb. 17, 2007

LIMA — It may be another two months or more before rules are in place to deal with Ohio’s new smoking ban, but area health officials are preparing to play their part.

Ohio voters approved a state-wide ban on smoking in public places in November. The law was meant to go into effect a month later, but a delay in drafting the actual rules for enforcing the new restrictions prompted many smokers and businesses to ignore the restrictions.

February 21, 200718 yr

From the 2/20/07 Defiance Crescent-News:

Some SMOKERS Are FREEZING

By BECKY MARTINEZ

[email protected]

A fairly new law has a group of individuals -- Ohio smokers -- are heading outside regardless of the below-zero temperatures.

"I've been smoking for 40 years, to have to stand out in the cold in order to smoke is crazy," said one Defiance County employee who wished to remain anonymous.

He stated he knows it is his individual choice to smoke, but feels like a freedom has been taken away. "I don't drink. My cigarette is just as relaxing to me as a beer is to someone who drinks. When I have stress, I want a cigarette."

February 21, 200718 yr

This was in the Sunday New York Times.

Op-Ed Contributor

Smoke and Rearview Mirrors

By GARY NOLAN

...

In fact, William Osteen, a federal district court judge in Greensboro, N.C., who has ruled both in favor and against the tobacco industry, vacated this study’s findings, recognizing that it was junk science.

...

The tobacco industry, in concert with those sons of bitches in the oil industry, have put millions of dollars into developing the message of "junk science" to disparage and denigrate the work of real scientists. One tobacco-funded think tank actually made a point of funding anti-global-warming propaganda along with their pro-tobacco propaganda just so that it would not be so obvious that their dirty hands were on it. The anti-global-warming propaganda was catastrophically more successful than their pro-tobacco bullshit. This was documented on NPR's "On The Media" (my favorite show).

Yeah Dolan. You are either a co-conspirator or you are a FOOL.

February 21, 200718 yr

One wonders if liquor licenses couldn't be put at risk by the willful violation of a state law...I have no idea what goes into getting a liquor license or getting it taken away, but I wonder if that might not be a way to proceed in enforcing this until enforcement is both finalized, and then litigated and truly finalized...

February 21, 200718 yr

^methinks the Licenses Board would be overstepping their boundaries by rescinding liquor licenses for tobacco violations

also, "willful violation of a state law"? seems a little harsh for a misdemeanor. I mean, by that logic you could take a liquor license for a bar owner littering on the sidewalk.

February 21, 200718 yr

^methinks the Licenses Board would be overstepping their boundaries by rescinding liquor licenses for tobacco violations

also, "willful violation of a state law"? seems a little harsh for a misdemeanor. I mean, by that logic you could take a liquor license for a bar owner littering on the sidewalk.

Did a little digging (mostly here, and then looking up specific code here), and a liquor license holder has to have his license renewed annually. The Division of Liquor Control may refuse to renew that license for different reasons, including if:

the applicant....Has operated liquor permit businesses in a manner that demonstrates a disregard for the laws, regulations, or local ordinances of this state or any other state;

the place for which the permit is sought....Does not conform to the building, safety, or health requirements of the governing body of the county or municipal corporation in which the place is located

I don't know if the smoking ban counts as a health requirement, or if it does, if the fact that it references only the county/municipal corporation would dodge that requirement - but it seems like flaunting the smoking ban would qualify as demonstrating a disregard for the laws or regulations of this state...

February 21, 200718 yr

i still maintain my previous post.

February 21, 200718 yr

Given that I haven't heard anyone mention this before, I expect that the Division of Liquor Control and the entire executive branch of Ohio's government agrees with you...I was just speculating was all...

February 21, 200718 yr

Given that I haven't heard anyone mention this before, I expect that the Division of Liquor Control and the entire executive branch of Ohio's government agrees with you...I was just speculating was all...

I believe secretly that the Board of Licenses is mocking you right now!

But seriously:

1) I doubt the Liquor control board would be this "proactive" or "activist"

2) by the time they could get the ball rolling on some type of uniformed approach to backhandedly dealing with tobacco violations, the rules for tobacco violations would be in place

3) How much documentation is available of tobacco violations occurring during this "bizarro non-enforced" phase?

February 22, 200718 yr

I'd be surprised to see Liquor Control get involved in shutting down establishments; I've noticed that they tend to be a little on the "pro-bar" side of certain issues.

February 27, 200718 yr

I'm still pretty upset about the smoking ban, and its been enforced for a while. People say you get used to it, but I can't imagine... and I'm really not a heavy smoker. I still really wish smoking was significantly reduced from public places, but not completely erradicated.

I honestly feel like with a ban this strict, it isn't a rational health issue. No smoking within 25 feet of an entrance? Only stand alone tobacco stores with 80% revenue coming from tobacco? anywhere with a roof and three sides? Violation reports by hotline? C'mon. It's like people don't want to ever look at a smoker and people believe smokers should be punished. I wish we'd ban driving in public or at least move all entrances and sidewalks 25 feet from the road, but we can't always get what we want.

February 27, 200718 yr

I just can't wait for uniform enforcement to begin.

February 27, 200718 yr

We have to wear uniforms, too ?

I wouldn't put it past the anti-smoking crowd.

Who are, apparently, in the majority.

February 27, 200718 yr

We have to wear uniforms, too ?

I wouldn't put it past the anti-smoking crowd.

Who are, apparently, in the majority.

don't worry...they'll be fabulous!

I hear the state of Ohio has commissioned Marc Jacobs to create a line of flame retardant clothing that will also be sold as "specialty items" in major department stores.

February 27, 200718 yr

"No smoking within 25 feet of an entrance?"

Maybe because the cancer-stick crowd (not you specifically, but your co-horts) tend to congregate in one area, right next to the door so the rest of us have to walk through the resulting deathcloud to enter/exit our building.

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Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram

February 28, 200718 yr

"No smoking within 25 feet of an entrance?"

Maybe because the cancer-stick crowd (not you specifically, but your co-horts) tend to congregate in one area, right next to the door so the rest of us have to walk through the resulting deathcloud to enter/exit our building.

I'm fairly sure the wording is "may not reasonably re-enter", but what do I know, I'm not a doctor

February 28, 200718 yr

In the places that try to enforce the smoking ban, is there a problem with people trying to take their drinks outside with them when they smoke?

Just wondering if some bars have had to hire extra staff

February 28, 200718 yr

^ It seems like places with patios don't mind, but only if its railed off from the sidewalk. There are a couple bars I've been to that don't have a patio railed off and they won't let you take your drinks out - but if there's cover they'll let you re-enter without paying cover twice. Who knows? the law is so ridiculous no one really knows what to do.

What I'd like to know is what about patio or deck bars used during the summer? Will you be able to smoke at those? because I think the law could be interpretted to not allow this, but I'm not sure.

February 28, 200718 yr

^ It seems like places with patios don't mind, but only if its railed off from the sidewalk. There are a couple bars I've been to that don't have a patio railed off and they won't let you take your drinks out - but if there's cover they'll let you re-enter without paying cover twice. Who knows? the law is so ridiculous no one really knows what to do.

its not about being ridiculous, its about not getting busted by liquor control for a violation, and facing subsequent fines & suspensions of licenses. Liquor licenses are very specific as to where drinks can be served, i.e. only on your property, only on your patio if you paid the extra fees, blah blah blah

February 28, 200718 yr

this isn't so very different then when NY started it smoking ban. As I stated, and i think MRNYC even chimed in, it takes a few months for it to really hit home, but after the first summer, folks will know the "do's and don'ts"

Almost all the same issues we've discussed here were the same "bitchin' complaints'" New Yorkers had.

February 28, 200718 yr

^ It seems like places with patios don't mind, but only if its railed off from the sidewalk. There are a couple bars I've been to that don't have a patio railed off and they won't let you take your drinks out - but if there's cover they'll let you re-enter without paying cover twice. Who knows? the law is so ridiculous no one really knows what to do.

its not about being ridiculous, its about not getting busted by liquor control for a violation, and facing subsequent fines & suspensions of licenses. Liquor licenses are very specific as to where drinks can be served, i.e. only on your property, only on your patio if you paid the extra fees, blah blah blah

I meant its ridiculous, because I don't think its clear where you can smoke. Business seem to let people take drinks and smoke on patios, but come summer when there's table service I don't know if you'll be able to smoke on patios. They could be interpreted as places of employment.

In L.A. you could smoke on any patio, and what they determined a patio was far less restrictive than Ohio. I went to several restaurants that had a glass wall and door to a "patio", but their patio's were identical to the indoor space of the restaurant, had four walls, and beams across the top. At nicer and upscale places, and poolside no one around complained about the smoke, and servers are very gracious about bringing ash trays if you ask for one. California's ban is much less restrictive than Ohio's, and there you can really get away with an indoor ban that doesn't inconvenience smokers at all, because it never really gets cold outside.

February 28, 200718 yr

well in reality, it isn't clear.

give the "rules committee" time to make the enforceability aspect, and the State Dept. of Health does take input on the regulations.

Have you taken the time to call them and ask for a very clear definition of where and when you can smoke?

March 3, 200718 yr

From Business First of Columbus, 2/26/07:

Some puffers burned to discover hotels stubbing out smoking rooms

Business First of Columbus - February 23, 2007

by Brent LaLonde

For Business First

The statewide smoking ban that went into effect in December allows hotels to designate up to 20 percent of its sleeping rooms as smoking rooms, but it's becoming more difficult to find a hotel room in which to light up.

Two major nationwide hotel chains - the Westin and Marriott International, which includes Marriott, Renaissance, Courtyard by Marriott, Residence Inn, SpringHill Suites, TownPlace Suites and Fairfield Inn - went smoke-free in 2006 in their combined 2,300 hotels. The Marriott chain made the move in September, just weeks before Ohioans voted to ban smoking in nearly all public places.

March 3, 200718 yr

From the 2/27/07 Marietta Times:

Area still adjusting to smoking ban

By Brad Bauer, [email protected]

A public hearing set for today in Columbus on Ohio’s indoor smoking ban is just another step toward enforcement and is not likely to lead to exceptions for businesses, a local bar owner said.

March 3, 200718 yr

From the 2/28/07 Dispatch:

OPPOSITION BY SMOKERS, BUSINESS OWNERS

Tempers flare at hearing on Ohio’s smoking ban

Wednesday, February 28, 2007

James Nash

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

A last-ditch fight against the state’s antismoking law became so heated yesterday that two proponents of the law left a hearing early for their own safety.

The State Highway Patrol advised the two American Cancer Society representatives to leave the Ohio Department of Health hearing because of threats from some in the crowd, said Wendy Simpkins, spokeswoman for the society.

With just weeks remaining before businesses face penalties for violating Ohio’s new statewide smoking ban, dozens of smokers and business owners fought yesterday to throw out all or part of the law.

March 3, 200718 yr

Both from the 3/2/07 DDN:

Despite ban, many bars allow smoking

By James Cummings

Staff Writer

Friday, March 02, 2007

DAYTON — State law has prohibited smoking in places of business since Dec. 7, but you wouldn't know it by walking into some local bars.

A visit to eight randomly selected bars one evening last week found only three enforcing the smoking rules Ohio voters passed by a large margin last fall. The other five still had ashtrays on the tables and did not display "No Smoking" signs.

Mid-April likely date for smoking-ban rules

By James Cummings

Staff Writer

Friday, March 02, 2007

DAYTON — Though the law against indoor smoking officially took effect in December, the Ohio Department of Health has not established rules for enforcing the law.

Kristopher Weiss, a spokesman for the health department, said the rules will be in place by mid-April if everything goes smoothly during the next few weeks.

March 3, 200718 yr

I find that the more drunk people are, the less they care about smoking laws. People smoke in clubs/bars all the time. Personally it doesn't bother me.

March 4, 200718 yr

I find that the more drunk people are, the less they care about smoking laws. People smoke in clubs/bars all the time. Personally it doesn't bother me.

Yeah, well the more I have to drink the less I care about the ban. Occasionaly after 6 drinks or so I'll light up without thinking. Sometimes they tell me to put it out, other times they don't.

March 4, 200718 yr

I find that the more drunk people are, the less they care about smoking laws. People smoke in clubs/bars all the time. Personally it doesn't bother me.

Yeah, well the more I have to drink the less I care about the ban. Occasionaly after 6 drinks or so I'll light up without thinking. Sometimes they tell me to put it out, other times they don't.

Six drinks? In one night? whoa!

March 4, 200718 yr

^i call those weekdays

March 4, 200718 yr

^i call those weekdays

damn man...do you have a liver? One drink and im buzzed, two and I've gotta major hangover.

March 4, 200718 yr

Practice, practice, practice...

March 4, 200718 yr

Practice, practice, practice...

I had one REALLY bad drunk/hangover experience. I vowed, that it would never happen again, so I decided not to drink after that.

March 5, 200718 yr

^QUITTER!!! lol Six drinks is nothing for a night out....Hell come the 17th I'll have that many before marching in the parade! But maybe us Irish firefighters have some sort of a drinking problem......

March 5, 200718 yr

^QUITTER!!! lol Six drinks is nothing for a night out....Hell come the 17th I'll have that many before marching in the parade! But maybe us Irish firefighters have some sort of a drinking problem......

I'm ½ latin, we can cocktail!

Man, if you experienced the "morning after scenario" that I had, You'd never drink again either!

My skin is crawling just thinking about it.

March 5, 200718 yr

I'm as guilty as the rest of you but:

Back on Subject, Please

March 5, 200718 yr

^Whoa. SOMEBODY'S a mean drunk...

March 7, 200718 yr

From the 3/4/07 Marion Star:

State's rule makers hear debate on smoking

Hearing airs opinions on regulation plans

He said he's seen studies that indicate that approximately 30 percent of bars go out of business within two years of a smoking ban being implemented.

Doesn't nearly one third of all bar/restaurant ventures fail after two years anyway? (or some other comparable statistic).

Put out a quality product, and maybe you should worry less.

March 7, 200718 yr

It has no merit.

--

STUDY: SMOKING BAN NOT HURTING EATERIES, BARS

Source: Jim Warren, Herald-Leader Staff Writer

Lexington's public smoking ban has not economically harmed the city's restaurants and bars, a new University of Kentucky study asserts. The study, appearing in the February issue of Tobacco Control, an international peer-reviewed science journal, is based on employment data and openings and closings in the bar and restaurant industries in Lexington and six contiguous counties during 64 months before the smoking ban went into effect in 2004, and 14 months after that

Published on February 13, 2007, Page B2, Lexington Herald-Leader (KY)

--

Earlier studies concluded that the number of smokers dropped (31% in Lexington alone) and that no businesses have been affected. I can publish the full article here if you all are interested.

March 7, 200718 yr

seicer, I'm sure joe bar-owner could find a study that says exactly the opposite.

Just like I could find a study that shows second hand smoke actually decreases the chances of lung cancer. Yes, it was an outlier, but when it comes to statistics theres always a chance for anything you want to prove, you can find/construct a study to reach your conclusions. (no, i'm not calling your study an outlier, I'm just arguing its the nature of bars/restaurants to fail at extremely high levels, ergo any study trying to quantify the effects of smoking bans on closings is bunk.)

March 7, 200718 yr

Well, it depends on who is doing the study. A woman in West Virginia claimed that according to a study, 71% of Kentuckians smoke on a regular basis and were 'lying' to help deflate the study's numbers. I'd trust a University of Kentucky study over some woman's claim in this case -- but yes, any study can refute another.

I think some people are just trying to use smoking bans as an excuse for their poor performance. Take for instance Katie's Korner Kafe here in Ashland. It nearly went under a few years back not long after it opened -- the owners had to reduce their hours from 24/7 to something more along the lines of a typical business. They went back to 24/7 soon afterwards and now they are complaining again about their bad business -- but this time, they are blaming the smoking ban as the primary reason. Not their pathetic scores from the Health Department, or their lousy food, or uncourteous waitresses, or their full support of a smoking ban.

March 7, 200718 yr

I think some people are just trying to use smoking bans as an excuse for their poor performance.

I agree with you there 100%. You run a business, its up to you to adapt to your surroundings/market to make a profit.

Reminds me of a few Downtown Cleveland Restaurant/Retailers blaming parking as a problem (during our construction of the silver line). Well you shouldn't have located downtown you dumbshit, maybe you would have been better off in a strip mall in Parma where you can be surrounded by a sea of asphalt.

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