Ohio Smoking Ban

May 2, 200718 yr

Oh my, that is so dirty.

Giggity.

May 7, 200718 yr

From the 5/3/07 PD:

Watch out for cranky smokers

Enforcement of ban begins today

Thursday, May 03, 2007

Harlan Spector

Plain Dealer Reporter

A statewide ban on public smoking starts today, and this time they really mean it.

The state begins enforcing provisions of Issue 5, the law approved by voters that forbids smoking in workplaces and public buildings.

The law took effect 30 days after the November election, with no means of enforcement.

As a result, about half the Cuyahoga County bars and restaurants followed it -- more restaurants than bars, health inspectors said. Chain restaurants fell in line. The popular night spots did, too. The neighborhood saloons, the egg and coffee joints in many cases didn't.

From the 5/3/07 Enquirer:

Judge: Smoking not a 'right'

Decision clears the way for statewide ban to take effect today

BY DAN HORN | [email protected]

A Hamilton County judge refused to block enforcement of Ohio's indoor smoking ban Wednesday, clearing the way for the law to take effect today.

Common Pleas Judge Fred Nelson refused to block enforcement of the law after concluding Ohioans do not have a constitutional right to smoke or to own businesses that permit smoking.

"There is no fundamental right ... to smoke in public," Nelson wrote in his decision. "This court declines to fabricate such a right."

The ruling is a blow to a group of bar and restaurant owners who sued last year to stop enforcement of the ban, which prohibits smoking in enclosed public places or in businesses with employees. Voters approved the ban in November.

From the 5/3/07 Youngstown Vindicator:

With smoking ban in place, private clubs await a ruling

A preliminary hearing on that issue is set for later this month

By ANGIE SCHMITT

VINDICATOR STAFF WRITER

YOUNGSTOWN — Today, local health agencies statewide will begin enforcing the smoking ban enacted in December. For now, however, private clubs such as the AMVETS in Vienna will have to pack away their ashtrays and wait.

A provision of the statewide smoking ban that allows smoking in private clubs is under assault by an organization that represents Ohio's bar owners.

A Franklin County Common Pleas judge ruled the Ohio Licensed Beverage Association's challenge of the exemption for private clubs "demonstrated a substantial likelihood of success." He issued a temporary restraining order Monday forbidding private clubs from smoking until the matter can be debated further at a preliminary hearing May 14.

From the 5/3/07 Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

Lights out for smokers in private clubs

Joe Medici | The Chronicle-Telegram

For more than a month now, members at private clubs throughout Ohio have been lighting up, thinking they were safe from the statewide smoking ban.

That all ends today.

After a trade association of Ohio�s bar owners succeeded Monday in temporarily removing an exemption from the state�s smoking ban for their rivals at private clubs, however, officials at the clubs are looking at what they consider a bleak future.

From the 5/3/07 Tiffin Advertiser-Tribune:

Enforcement of statewide smoking ban to start today

By Zachary Petit, [email protected]

Starting today, a lit cigarette in the wrong place could be the smoking gun that earns local businesses everything from a warning letter to a $2,500 fine.

Finalizing a key part of the process that began when a majority of Ohio residents voted for cleaner air in public establishments during the 2006 elections, enforcement of the statewide in-door smoking ban is set to begin today.

Ohio Department of Health spokesperson Kristopher Weiss said his organization has received about 18,000 reports of alleged violations since the ban took effect Dec. 7, and overall, the ODH is pleased with the progress of the law that was completed more than a month before its deadline.

May 7, 200718 yr

From the 5/4/07 PD:

Smokers welcomed to Ritzy, airy lounge

Hotel heats, furnishes relaxing outdoor area

Friday, May 04, 2007

Patrick O'Donnell

Plain Dealer Reporter

Would you like a mint with your smoke, sir? Or a newspaper with your cigarette?

Smokers get the full white-glove treatment at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel near Cleveland's Public Square.

Smokers have a full plant-lined smoking lounge, which opened Thursday. It holds a sofa and two chairs, small tables and even a bowl of bright, shiny apples. Entryway bell staff hover nearby with a tray of mints, water and papers.

From the 5/4/07 Enquirer:

Owners learn smoking rules

Health officials aim to 'educate first' as law goes into effect

BY JON NEWBERRY | [email protected]

Cincinnati and Hamilton County public health officials briefed business owners on the state's new no-smoking rules on Thursday - the first day the rules were in effect - and tried hard to put to rest any concerns that they'd be on a witch hunt for violators.

The intent is to "educate first and enforce second," said Ken Sharkey, spokesman for the Cincinnati Health Department.

From same:

Smoking ban has bar owners, patrons glum

Some will take business elsewhere

BY QUAN TRUONG | [email protected]

Greg Varacalli, the owner of Anthony's Cigar Bar and Grille in West Chester's Voice of America Center, said Thursday he'd rather be an outlaw than follow a rule he fears will run him out of business.

Enforcement of Ohio's indoor smoking ban officially began Thursday. But this coming weekend, Varacalli is seeing to it that cigars will be smoked at his bar.

"It's such a screwed-up law, there's got to be some civil disobedience," Varacalli said. "I want one more weekend for these guys. Come Monday, we'll be good citizens and follow the law; but we're gonna be outlaw smokers this weekend."

Varacalli said he picked up the phone Thursday and turned himself in to the Ohio Department of Health, knowing full well the consequences.

Link contains photos. From the 5/4/07 Blade:

OHIO INDOOR SMOKING ORDINANCE

State begins enforcing ban; action fails to clear for those opposed to law

By JULIE M. McKINNON

BLADE STAFF WRITER

Beyond the closed side door at Good Times Sports Bar & Grill on Jackman Road, Bruce Stafford and Michael Miller played pinball, drank beer, and smoked freely - and legally - on a partially enclosed patio.

A few miles away, soon after a group with smokers left Delaney's Lounge earlier than usual, a man who declined to give a reporter his name for fear of being penalized for defying state law searched the Alexis Road bar for a place to put his cigarette's ashes before lighting up.

Link contains photos. From the 5/4/07 Canton Repository:

Smoking ban clears the air in local bars

BY KELLI YOUNG

REPOSITORY STAFF WRITER

CANTON Cheri Suter propped her flip flops on the top of the Freeway Tavern's bar and leaned back into the black swivel chair. She marveled at how one day - and one new law - changed the Navarre Road SW bar overnight.

Wednesday, the tavern's 10 swivel chairs were filled with patrons who drank beer, smoked and joked with each other. On Thursday - the first day the statewide smoking ban was enforced - the Freeway's doors displayed "No Smoking" signs, and a melon-smelling candle replaced ashtrays on the bar.

Link contains a photo. From the 5/4/07 News-Herald:

No ifs, ands or butts

Many fuming over new law

By: Sandra M. Klepach

[email protected]

05/04/2007

Ashtrays were washed and stacked for safekeeping Thursday behind the bar of Gunny's Hall in Mentor.

The hope among members of the private veterans' club was that they'll return in time for the groundbreaking of a building extension May 14.

Rudy Baitt, commandant and Vietnam veteran, said he'd even be content with a "smoking section" - a concept now legally forbidden for all other bars and restaurants as of Thursday, the first day requiring the voter-approved smoking ban to be enforced.

The language of the law initially exempted groups such as the Veterans of Foreign Wars halls or Elks Lodges. But a temporary restraining order will now last at least until the morning of the Gunny's groundbreaking, when a Franklin County judge will determine whether the language is fair.

In the meantime, designated outdoor smoking areas marked the front and rear of the hall Thursday.

"A lot of comments are, 'Why did we invest the money ($11 to $26) to join the private club, then?' " Baitt said. "We were almost legal, but then they came up with something else.

"When we fought in the war, we fought for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and some of us are dedicated smokers," he said. "We're abiding by the law, but we don't think it's fair."

From the 5/4/07 Ashtabula Star Beacon:

Don't think about lighting up

MARK TODD

Star Beacon

JEFFERSON - - Contrary to reports, Ashtabula County's health department will not ignore public smoking offenders who cross their path, Health Commissioner Ray Saporito said Thursday.

However, inspectors will be checking for compliance with the new law primarily among clients the county routinely examines, such as restaurants.

A law that bans smoking in many locations in Ohio was approved by voters in November, but enforcement didn't officially start until Thursday. Ashtabula County has officially notified the state that it isn't up to the task of completely policing the new law.

May 7, 200718 yr

From the 5/5/07 PD:

No-smoking law debuts with unusual complaints

Saturday, May 05, 2007

Harlan Spector

Plain Dealer Reporter

You might expect some bars and veterans clubs to test Ohio's anti-smoking law.

But the Stark County Dental Society?

A complaint against the medical group is among the more unusual ones made to the Ohio Department of Health the first two days the smoking ban was in full force. Someone also turned in a local health department in western Ohio.

Link contains photos. From the 5/5/07 Blade:

Ohio smokers make run for border

Michigan bar trade upticks as Buckeye State ban takes hold

By JULIE M. McKINNON

BLADE STAFF WRITER

The signs at Michigan Tavern in Bedford Township, where most of the parking lot's vehicles sported Ohio license plates, said it all: "Wanna smoke? Come to Michigan. We'll take your business."

Various bars across the state line from Toledo have had an increase in business since Ohio instituted a smoking ban in most public buildings, especially as officials started enforcing the law this week, employees say.

And Ohioans say they have no choice but to cross the state line, where there is no such ban unless they just want food, a quick drink, or can lounge outside where smoking is allowed at their neighborhood's bars.

From the 5/5/07 Marion Star:

The cost of smoking just went up

By JOHN JARVIS

The Marion Star

MARION — Shortly after noon on the first day of enforcement of the statewide smoking ban, the Marion City Health Department received its first complaint of a violation.

Sandy Bridenstine, environmental health director, said the department would send a letter of notice to the establishment where the violation allegedly occurred, and do a follow-up investigation in about a week.

“We’re not going to go out right away if we get a call about smoking,” Bridenstine said Thursday. “We’re not going to go out there that minute. We have so many programs that we’re working on. We have not hired anybody to be a smoking inspector. We’re working with the staff we have.”

May 10, 200718 yr

Smoking ban: No firestorm

Few local complaints, no violators identified

BY LIZ LONG & JON CRAIG | [email protected] & [email protected]

May 10, 2007

COLUMBUS - In the first week enforcing Ohio's public smoking ban, the state Health Department has received nearly 1,500 complaints - including about 175 in Southwest Ohio.

Along with dozens of bars and restaurants, the list of places allegedly allowing illegal smoking included auto dealerships, Music Hall, a gymnastics facility, even a cancer research facility.

But it could be months before anyone is fined, according to Health Department officials, because state law allows smokers and businesses at least 30 days to contest a complaint. Plus, they get a warning on the first violation.

From the 5/8/07 News-Herald:

Air cleared

Health district hears complaints at dawn of smoking ban enforcement

Sandra M. Klepach

[email protected]

05/08/2007

Since Thursday, the Lake County General Health District has fielded only nine smoking complaints against five different establishments in Willoughby, Mentor and Mentor-on-the-Lake.

The proprietors, five among thousands of similar establishments, now have 30 days to dispute the complaints or accept their punishments - for the first offense, warning letters.

May 16, 200718 yr

From the 5/10/07 Times-Reporter:

Deal with it

Smoking ban leaves no option for bar owners

By KYLE KONDIK, T-R Staff Writer

Carol Hill, part-owner of New Philadelphia’s Maurer’s Grill, doesn’t mince words on how she would write Ohio’s new indoor smoking ban.

“If you don’t want to smoke, stay the hell out,” Hill said. “It’s just nonsense, really.”

May 16, 200718 yr

From the 5/11/07 Youngstown Vindicator:

Howland bar owner will fight smoking ban

Trumbull officials have sent violation letters to three workplaces, including GM.

By ED RUNYAN

VINDICATOR TRUMBULL STAFF

WARREN — The owner of Leon's Sports Bar and Grille says he doesn't plan to go down without a fight in his battle with authorities who are trying make the patrons of his establishment stop smoking.

"I want to contest all of this," said Richard Kelsh, owner of the state Route 46, Howland, business, which was one of three that were sent letters of violation this week by the Trumbull County Health Department. The letters say the three violated the state's new Smoke-Free Workplace law.

Kelsh said he was aware that enforcement of the new law was to begin May 3, so he removed all of the ashtrays inside the business, but it didn't stop all of his customers from smoking. He also posted signs telling people smoking in the business was illegal, but people tore the signs down.

May 16, 200718 yr

From the 5/14/07 Mount Vernon News:

Smoking ban effecting local businesses

By Brooke McCann, News Special Projects Correspondent

Monday, May 14, 2007

MOUNT VERNON — By 58 percent, Ohio voters approved a law in November 2006 to ban indoor smoking in public places. The ban took effect Dec. 7, but because there was not any way to enforce the new law, some restaurants and bars continued to let people smoke inside.

Now the smoking ban has consequences.

The enforcement began May 3, one month ahead of the mandated date, June 7. Businesses and places of employment removed ashtrays and posted no-smoking signs. For those found in violation of the no-smoking rule, there are hefty fines to pay. For the first violation, the business receives a warning. For the second violation, it’s a $100 fine; the third, a $500 fine; and the fourth, a $1,500 fine. The fifth violation carries a fine of $2,500.

That is an expensive risk to take just to smoke, and many business owners aren’t willing to take that risk. Ginny Lane, owner of Rookies Sports Pub and Grill in Mount Vernon, has taken all the ashtrays off the tables and posted no-smoking signs.

May 16, 200718 yr

From the 5/15/07 Dispatch:

Legal case affecting private clubs

Judge extends smoking ban in VFWs

Tuesday, May 15, 2007 3:32 AM

By James Nash

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Without settling the question of whether smoking ultimately will be allowed in veterans halls and other private clubs, a Franklin County judge extended a temporary ban yesterday by one week.

Judge David E. Cain of Franklin County Common Pleas Court will rule on a bid by a trade association of bars and restaurants to keep Veterans of Foreign Wars posts and other private clubs from allowing members to light up.

The Ohio Licensed Beverage Association, the group that opposed the smoking ban passed by voters in November, asked Cain for a full trial to settle the question. The Ohio Department of Health, which wrote the rules excluding private clubs from the indoor smoking ban, wants Cain to rule more quickly.

From the 5/15/07 Warren Tribune Chronicle:

New law is baby sitter for some

By BILL RODGERS Tribune Chronicle

Rick Kelsh of Leon’s Sports Bar and Grill in Howland is ambivalent about the smoking ban, he’s upset that he’s been turned into a ‘‘baby sitter’’ for his customers.

‘‘If it’s fun in Ohio, someone wants to make a law against it ... I’m not going to sit in with a 21-year-old or a 60-year-old (smoker) and say ‘this is bad for your health,’’’ he said.

Kelsh said a Trumbull County health worker caught his bar without the required ‘‘No Smoking’’ signs posted. He was sent a letter of report for the alleged violation. He’s going to contest the report, claiming that his customers have been tearing down the signs.

May 16, 200718 yr

PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS: UP IN SMOKE?

By Scott Ryan Nazzarine, Esq.

“There is no fundamental right enshrined in the Constitution of the United States or in the Constitution of Ohio to smoke in public, and this court declines to fabricate such a right.” So said a Hamilton County Common Pleas Court in ruling on our challenge to Ohio’s Smoking Ban last week, and a phrase oft-quoted in the local media when discussing the case.

But with all due respect to the Court, the problem with this “holding” is that it simply misses the mark on so many different levels: legally, factually, and constitutionally.

The first major problem with this statement is that we NEVER argued that there is a constitutional right to smoke. This was a straw-man argument, set up to burn the instant it came into contact with a smoldering cigarette carelessly tossed upon it. In fact, we consciously and intentionally avoided ever raising such an argument because it is only too easy to reject–courts love to say that there is no constitutional right to do this or that specific act and thus dispose of an argument under a deferential standard before the claim ever has a fighting chance (of course, we libertarians know that the 9th & 10th amendments to the US Constitution mean that ours is a government of limited, enumerated powers and that the absence of a reference to a specific act in the Constitution does not mean that we don’t have that right, but, to the contrary, that the government has no power to regulate that act; however, the courts these days are not too fond of quoting the ninth or tenth amendments–but, alas, that is a subject for another article).

Link unavailable.

May 16, 200718 yr

Kelsh said a Trumbull County health worker caught his bar without the required ‘‘No Smoking’’ signs posted. He was sent a letter of report for the alleged violation. He’s going to contest the report, claiming that his customers have been tearing down the signs.

Kelsh has a bigger problem on his hands in that it appears he's serving middle schoolers.

May 17, 200718 yr

Some of my observations from out in the field:

The smoking ban has completely upset the normal crowds that particular bars attracted previously. Without a doubt, a PATIO where SMOKING CAN HAPPEN is the PRIME reason why MANY people choose to go to one bar versus another. I was in Athens on Tuesday night...the few bars down there with back patios were crushing the other bars. Specifically, I walked into O'Hooley's and there was hardly anyone in the bar but the back patio was shoulder-to-shoulder. Meanwhile hardly anyone was in neighboring bars. People who would have never been seen in O'Hooley's previously were all about it. All these bars that casually added patios in previous years are now CLEANING UP.

So all you folks out there who don't think Cincinnati bars are losing business over this wake the hell up. They're losing TONS of money.

May 17, 200718 yr

^As your anecdotal evidence incontrovertably demonstrates.

May 17, 200718 yr

Or it could be warm and people enjoy being outside.

From our standpoint here in Lexington, the bars that I frequent are like I described above. The bars that are all indoors are just as crowded as bars that feature an outdoor patio -- whose interiors are just as empty as you described. It's not down to the smoking issue, it's down to choice: you have an all indoor-bar which may appeal to some, or an indoor/outdoor bar where everyone hangs outside during the warmer months.

May 17, 200718 yr

"You have to send 95 percent of the people outside so that the other 2 percent feel better about themselves," Kelsh said, adding that there are probably 3 percent more who don't smoke but don't care whether other people do.

I think this is an exaggeration, but he makes a lot of sense. I think this whole thing about the ban is about people wanting to feel better about themselves. There is absolutely no reason why smoking has to be completely erradicated from society. Why do nonsmokers care if certain places remain for smokers to gather?

May 17, 200718 yr

I know sitwells says they have done 3x the buisness since smoking was banned.

May 17, 200718 yr

um, i read in City Beat that sitwells is closing

May 17, 200718 yr

^Maybe they simply can't handle all the extra business.

We finally really did it. You smoking ban maniacs! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell! ...

May 17, 200718 yr

^Maybe they simpy can't handle all the extra business.

We finally really did it. You smoking ban maniacs! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell! ...

Every time I go there they screw up our order... which doesn't "sit well" with me!

May 18, 200718 yr

um, i read in City Beat that sitwells is closing

What edition of City Beat would that be?? One from like 2 years ago...

May 18, 200718 yr

um, i read in City Beat that sitwells is closing

due to lease issues. they will probably just move again. years ago they where a few blocks up ludlow

May 18, 200718 yr

From the 5/18/07 Dispatch:

STATEWIDE BAN

Smoking is ruled out at clubs, too

Establishments such as VFW must follow new law, judge says

Friday, May 18, 2007 3:38 AM

By James Nash

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Patrons of VFW halls and other private clubs can forget about lighting up, a Franklin County judge ruled yesterday.

Common Pleas Court Judge David E. Cain slapped down the Ohio Department of Health's attempt to carve out an exemption to the state's new smoking ban for the estimated 1,500 private clubs in the state, including VFW posts, motorcycle groups and yacht clubs.

William Seagraves, state commander for the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Ohio, said Cain's ruling flies in the face of the private-club exemption in the ballot issue that passed last November.

From the 5/18/07 Fostoria Review Times:

New law is not blowing smoke

By JORDAN CRAVENS

STAFF WRITER

The torch has been passed.

The Ohio Department of Health has vested the power of enforcing Ohio's recently passed smoking law with individual county health departments in hopes that businesses will begin taking the law more seriously.

Approximately two weeks after the law's new implementation on May 3, the ODH has received 2,297 complaint calls, which get forwarded to county health districts.

May 19, 200718 yr

um, i read in City Beat that sitwells is closing

due to lease issues. they will probably just move again. years ago they where a few blocks up ludlow

Thats right...I've heard that before. For some reason I was thinking Kaldi's in my head even though he clearly said Sitwells.

May 19, 200718 yr

Kaldi's is closing? Again?

May 20, 200718 yr

^No

May 20, 200718 yr

From the 5/18/07 Greenville Daily Advocate:

Charitable giving hurt by ban

Bob Robinson

Managing Editor

GREENVILLE - Five out of six charitable organizations have said their business is down due to the smoking ban.

And less business means less money for their charities.

Glenna Despinette of the American Legion said their income is definitely down since they had to drop smoking.

May 20, 200718 yr

From the 5/19/07 Springfield News-Sun:

Smoking ban enforcement fires up

Private clubs must comply with law, rules judge, and that means no more smoking at Moose Lodge.

By Kelly Baker

Staff Writer

Saturday, May 19, 2007

Based on the way in which the Ohio smoking ban was presented to voters who approved the measure in November, many people thought private clubs would be exempt from the law, a local club administrator said Friday.

But after a judge ruled this week that private clubs must comply with the smoking ban, Moose Lodge administrator John Hayes said his more than 1,000 members have little choice but to comply.

From the 5/19/07 Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

Veterans snuff out cigarettes, and they‘re not happy

Bette Pearce | The Chronicle-Telegram

ELYRIA — Even nonsmoking members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 1079 in Elyria are burning mad about a Franklin County judge’s recent ruling that private clubs can’t allow smoking.

The veterans and relatives of veterans who were gathered at the hall Friday afternoon for conversation and beverages left their cigarettes in purses and pockets.

“It’s a real kick in the butt,” 72-year-old Korean War veteran Henry Wilson, a smoker, said laughing.

From the 5/19/07 Dispatch:

Mulch, cigarette butts a bad mix

Half a dozen fires reported recently

Saturday, May 19, 2007 3:35 AM

By Gavin Off

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

The fire started as Kathy Meadows sat down to eat a plate of spaghetti.

Within minutes, the flames climbed up the shrubs outside her kitchen window and spread to her apartment's vinyl siding.

"It was a horrible, frightening thing," said Meadows, 61. "It looked like it was coming in."

May 21, 200718 yr

um, i read in City Beat that sitwells is closing

due to lease issues. they will probably just move again. years ago they where a few blocks up ludlow

Thats right...I've heard that before. For some reason I was thinking Kaldi's in my head even though he clearly said Sitwells.

I posted the City Beat article from May 20 here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=9981.570

May 21, 200718 yr

I took this photo last night at an Ohio bar that will remain nameless in order to prevent a $500 fine:

Well nice knowing you all. No doubt I'll be dead this time next year thanks to that second-hand cigar smoke.

May 21, 200718 yr

Why is it soo hard for people to just go outside to smoke. I guess I'll hear the typical response of its more convinient...yada yada yada. You know people wear gloves when preparing food at restaurants, and wear hats. I guess thats too much of an inconviniece on the workers right?? I guess some people just do things in spite of the law. Thats class.

May 21, 200718 yr

It's not hard to go outside to smoke. It's a matter of lazyness. People don't want to stop smoking because its too hard, they don't want to follow through with a commitment, they are too busy, etc. The excuses are one and the same. I've heard this from so many people when the Lexington smoking ban went into affect.

And you know something? They still complain and whine about the same crap.

About the bar closings. Too bad for them, but anyone will pull up an article about a bar closing, equate it to the smoking ban, and you'll have a following -- whether it is true or not.

May 21, 200718 yr

>Why is it soo hard for people to just go outside to smoke.

Why is it soo hard for people who don't like smoking to not go to places where people smoke? Maybe because they're grossly exaggerating the risks and how much it irritates them. You know what? I hate techno. So I don't go to places that play techno.

And the other thing is all these radio ads on Ohio radio stations. This is a bar before smoking. This is a bar after smoking. Who the hell is paying for these ads? KENTUCKY BAR OWNERS, THAT'S WHO.

May 21, 200718 yr

It is inconvenient to go outside and smoke when:

1. The weather is bad

2. You can't take you're drink outside with you (because there is only a public sidewalk and no patio).

3. You are at a bar to watch a game or some other event.

4. You'd rather not stand outside alone on a dark street late at night.

5. You pay cover to go in a place and then when you go outside you have to get a verbal agreement from the bouncer to let you reenter.

6. You've been a good patron of local businesses as a smoker, and now you are suddenly made to go outside.

The people who don't want to go outside and smoke aren't lazy. I don't have a problem not smoking in classrooms, shopping malls, hospitals, etc. It's just that bars are different and should be places where people relax and enjoy themselves. Most people drink because they enjoy it - not because they are addicted or mean to cause car accidents. Most people smoke because they enjoy it - not because they are addicted or mean to hurt those around them. But bars aren't "healthy" places anyway. No one has to go to a bar and no one goes there to be "healthy". I guess it isn't a right to smoke in a bar, but is it a right to go to a bar anyway?

Looking back at the time after December 7 when many businesses started complying with the law, it seemed like everyone was satisfied. By and large most places did not allow smoking to satisfy nonsmokers, and then there were a few vestiges hanging around to satisfy smokers. I really wish we could have had a situation like this permanently. Issue 5 was way too strict. Did it offend nonsmokers when a few places continued to allow smoking even though they clearly had a choice not to go there?

As for people breaking the law being classless. I'm sorry but the law is classless. It is rude and make people go outside and smoke. I find it very tacky to tell an adult what to do and what not to do in places and times of leisure. I get belittled for smoking all the time by aquaintences and strangers. Frankly, I can't believe that people have the gall to do this. People have no inhibitions in being critical toward strangers who smoke. It's honestly very sad and clearly something people do to make them feel better about themselves.

I don't mean to be pretensious, but I've traveled extensively and often first class. I've stayed at certain hotels, dined at restaurants, drank at bars, and been in people's homes that could be considered authorities on class and service. In my experience these places (whether there wasn't or was a smoking ban) have most accepting and accomodating of smokers. The people around you at these places don't ever flinch, stare, or wave their hands in front of their faces either.

May 21, 200718 yr

I wonder why NYC hasn't crumbled into ruins by now because of their smoking ban?

May 21, 200718 yr

Oh shock, here is something if you don't like being outside in the dark, or if its raining and they do not provide awnings.

Don't smoke! Surely you can hold your internal urges until you can find a suitable location to smoke. Perhaps it can even be an incentive to wean yourself off of this deadly habit! What a shock.

The same complainers are the first one to post articles about how smoking is great for business, how bars suffer and close, and all that. But it's easily refuted, as pointed out just a few threads up. Give it up, it's not changing, it's quickly becoming the norm across the nation.

May 21, 200718 yr

I wonder why NYC hasn't crumbled into ruins by now because of their smoking ban?

and i think we've officially become redundant for the 11th time on this thread (vulp et all included)

May 21, 200718 yr

This whole thread is redundant! As much as some say that the bars are "suffering"....seems as all the ones I have been to lately that DO NOT smoke seem to be doing just as well if not better than before the ban...I just get a kick out of all the "boo hooing" going on here...

May 21, 200718 yr

You tell 'em JDD

May 21, 200718 yr

This whole thread is redundant! As much as some say that the bars are "suffering"....seems as all the ones I have been to lately that DO NOT smoke seem to be doing just as well if not better than before the ban...I just get a kick out of all the "boo hooing" going on here...

I'm too lazy to go back and find it, but I predicted back in I think August of '06 that we would be inundated with a million articles of boo-hooing (directed at Newspaper X, not Grasscat).

I'm not saying I want an award, just that the only press coverage will be devoted to joe schmoe's bar and how he has lost so much money to the mysterious bars that allow smoking.

May 21, 200718 yr

^ point taken

May 21, 200718 yr

I would guess that bars would do a larger after work buisness after the ban. People generally don't mind comming home at 2am and smelling like smoke, but people really hate comming home at 7pm smelling like smoke.

May 21, 200718 yr

I can't remember if I said this aloud or typed it here, but:

I think downtown bars will benefit the most from the smoking ban. Having people outside smoking puts more eyes on the street to keep a lookout for crime and acts as a deterance for anyone looking to mug a pedestrain. Also more people out on the street makes the area look more lively. One of the reasons new york is so safe is due to the huge number of doormen keeping a watch on the street 24/7. Having smokers outside a bar until late at night will help keep more eyes on the street and deter crime. Caveat: Downtown Cincinnati is really very safe, but the psycological benefit is important as well.

May 21, 200718 yr

Government to ban smoking during sex

The latest politically correct act of the custodians of our nanny state is going to be to introduce legislation banning smoking during sexual intercourse.

Junior Health Minister Ms. Fanny Nanny said that the Government is concerned about the health risks to both partners. "We commissioned a secret study into sex-related injuries, by men with ladders and binoculars. The result is frightening. 20% of adults who have engaged in sex while one partner was smoking have been injured."

The daft biddy added "It is not just dropping ash burning sensitive parts of the body. Some partners, particularly from East Anglia, forget to take their cigarettes out of their mouth when kissing each other, which probably explains why so many people in Norfolk have ruddy complexions."

She horrifyingly continued "We've had reports of people engaged in more erotic acts of lovemaking burning their partners' bottoms or genitalia. We have no idea how that happened but we want to put a stop to it."

People who smoke while making love will risk a £1,000 fine or up to 3 months in jail.

In recognition of the fact that human hair can act as kindling, there will be a specific exception for slapheads, who will be allowed to puff and pull at the same time with other slapheads.

We tried to interview the Secretary of State for Health, but he was too busy banning something else.

The Campaign for the Right to Atmospheric Pollution (CRAP) said "This is just another senseless attack on smokers. What have smokers ever done to hurt anyone?" We started to answer the question but the spokesman ran off.

David Cameron immediately condemned the new law but refused to say whether a Conservative Government would repeal it. When asked whether he had ever smoked while having sex, he said "I refuse to answer personal questions that have no relevance to my ability to do my job as leader of the Opposition". When asked what his party's policies were, he repeated the same answer.

May 21, 200718 yr

From the 5/21/07 Lancaster Eagle-Gazette:

Business slow at bars after smoking ban enforcement

By TAMARIA L. KULEMEKA

The Eagle-Gazette Staff

[email protected]

LANCASTER - The past two weeks have been somewhat lonely for some local bar owners who are complying with the smoking ban since enforcement took effect May 3.

Jody Wilson thought the lack of business at the Bottle Cap Bar and Drive-Thru was the result of the warmer weather. But the past two weeks have led Wilson to believe that enforcing the smoking ban at her bar has kept patrons - even regulars - away.

"We smoked right up until enforcement began; it's been empty since," Wilson said. "It picks up in the evening some, but not like it used to be."

The Bottle Cap Bar was one of 11 bars the Eagle-Gazette visited between 11:45 a.m. and 2:30 p.m. Thursday.

May 22, 200718 yr

This whole thread is redundant! As much as some say that the bars are "suffering"....seems as all the ones I have been to lately that DO NOT smoke seem to be doing just as well if not better than before the ban...I just get a kick out of all the "boo hooing" going on here...

I'm too lazy to go back and find it, but I predicted back in I think August of '06 that we would be inundated with a million articles of boo-hooing (directed at Newspaper X, not Grasscat).

I'm not saying I want an award, just that the only press coverage will be devoted to joe schmoe's bar and how he has lost so much money to the mysterious bars that allow smoking.

Let's not forget Suzy Snowflake.

That nasty, nasty Suzy Snowflake...

May 22, 200718 yr

Its funny... We have an outdoor patio and we allow people to smoke outside but there are still customers that are disgusted by it and demand they they not be seated anywhere near someone smoking. Nevermind the emissions from constant traffic on Erie ave. right up against the patio.

May 22, 200718 yr

^diesel exhaust, believed to be just as much as a carcinogen as second hand smoke.

May 22, 200718 yr

Might as well go back to the horse and buggy.

Oh wait, the manure...

May 22, 200718 yr

rickshaws?

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