95 Mulberry is being offerred at sherriff sale on 1/3/2013. The building has had orders on it going back to 2002.  Opening Bid is 4993.72. Architecturally a very interesting structure and a good candidate for restoration. It is historic eligible.

 

According to the auditiors website the property is 3264 Sq feet, 10 rooms 6 bedrooms.

http://hcsheriffssale.blogspot.com/2012/12/95-mulberry-st-cincinnati-oh-45202.html

I haven't gotten to read all of the posts on the forum but this looks like a good place to start.  My boyfriend and I are looking for a historical home in the Cincinnati area.  Primarily Avondale, North Avondale, OTR... and others similar to them.  We like the idea of Avondale because of recently announced grant money moving into the area.  However, I'm confused about that.  I've been told it's going to restoration companies and other times I've been told some is also going to individuals in the community.  If anyone had information about this or could explain it?!?  Anyway, we are young and I would love to have a historic home to renovate.  I did part of a renovation of a community center as my Girl Scout Gold Award project and loved it!  I know this would be a much larger scale and could use some tips or if anyone knows where to take classes or just anything at all I would appreciate it! We need a little (or a lot) of direction to get use started and hopefully the areas we picked will follow!  Like I said, we are young (25) and not much other than starting careers going on and feel we are able to take a chance in a "up and coming" neighborhood since it's just us and our dog with no intensions of children anytime soon!  Thanks!

You may be able to take on this house before they demolish it:

 

Mary Wolfe House at 965 Burton Avenue in Avondale is slated for demolition. Hannaford designed. Listed on the National Register.

 

 

Public Nuisance Hearing on January 25 at 1pm.

It will be a sad day when they demolish 965 Burton, but I'm afraid it's inevitable.  The immediate neighborhood is far too deteriorated to justify the work and money necessary to get it back into shape.  I did some very brief research a few years ago when it was on the market.  My conclusion: it's certainly not a project for anyone without significant resources and experience in historic renovation and restoration.

Do you think it'd worth it to stabilize it so it doesn't deteriorate further.. until such time as one might have greater resources available for the restoration work? What do you estimate it would cost for stabilization? and restoration?

It's on the National Register and was designed by Hannaford, so I would absolutely prefer that it be stabilized.  Unfortunately that is a really, really rough street.  Given that the house is almost 9,000 square feet and has sat neglected, incurring water damage and vandalism for the better part of a decade, I'd ballpark (very, very, very roughly) that it would cost tens of thousands just to stabilize and in excess of a million dollars to fully rehabilitate.  Note that I've never been inside, but I've driven past and walked around on a few occasions.  I'd be surprised if much of the historic interior remains intact.

 

I cannot envision an individual investing this kind of money to live in that neighborhood.  Preventing the demolition of 965 Burton will require a non-profit or wealthy benefactor interested solely in the preservation of a historic landmark.

 

If you're interested in some fascinating history about the house and the land it sits on, check out this blog post.

http://diggingcincinnati.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-missed-named-national-register-house.html

I have always been curious about the house located at 992 Marion (at the corner of Marion and Dakota in North Avondale). 

 

The building is quite large and ornate.... does anyone know any history of this place? Or where to find out?

965 Burton would be a major loss to preservation. The house has been off and on the market for the last 4 years. The current out of state owner paid way too much during the real estate boom and thought he'd have cash cow. Last I heard they wanted about 90K for it. Ive seen it and stabilization costs, just stabilization, will be 250-350K. It needs a roof, soffit and gutter reconstruction. The house also is missing its original staircase which could be recreated. Much original detail is missing because it was a nursing home for many years.

 

Actual final cost for a period restoration to secretary of interior standards is likely between 1.7 to 2 million.

 

My best scenario for the house would be to use it as a training center for historic preservation trades people or for some group like CPA and say the builders association to partner with a non profit and do a decorator show house out of it and then make it a decorative house museum and hope that renovation that is starting over there picks up and 'someday' it could be sold with protective covenants.

965 Burton would be a major loss to preservation. The house has been off and on the market for the last 4 years. The current out of state owner paid way too much during the real estate boom and thought he'd have cash cow. Last I heard they wanted about 90K for it. Ive seen it and stabilization costs, just stabilization, will be 250-350K. It needs a roof, soffit and gutter reconstruction. The house also is missing its original staircase which could be recreated. Much original detail is missing because it was a nursing home for many years.

 

Actual final cost for a period restoration to secretary of interior standards is likely between 1.7 to 2 million.

 

My best scenario for the house would be to use it as a training center for historic preservation trades people or for some group like CPA and say the builders association to partner with a non profit and do a decorator show house out of it and then make it a decorative house museum and hope that renovation that is starting over there picks up and 'someday' it could be sold with protective covenants.

 

 

Since so little of the interior remains, could the restoration be turned into a renovation and significantly reduce the cost?  A high quality modern interior inside that handsome stone exterior would be amazing!

A renovation, rather than a restoration, is more economically feasible. Given that we are talking about a structure that has been significantly altered and unfortunately resembles very little of what it once was, except for its exterior facade, and in a location that is still not that great, it is hard to persuade someone to invest over a million to do a proper restoration.

 

Conducting a full-blown restoration may also hamper its ability to be sold, especially if the costs are astronomically high for a residence that borders Avondale and some of the worst streets in Cincinnati. A more contemporary restoration, like with most houses, enhances its ability to be sold and can be done for a much cheaper cost.

 

If anything, basic repairs to the roof, gutters and exterior, along with the gutting of the interior to the studs, would be much preferable. At least shell it out.

Probably a good idea (in the short term, but given the property market movement I am seeing, and the levels of restoration, closeness to Xavier, if you are going to do it, doing it right makes sense.

 

Big obstacles are finding deep pockets. If you could do the project as a decorator show home ( donated time and materials) you could keep costs down. St Margarets Guild up in Indy for example ,does an annual decorator show house, Kips bay is another. There are ways to do it right. I am not convinced you can write the neighborhood off. I could see the apartments demoed and new infill condos for example. the existing housing stock in the area has quality.

 

 

965 Burton and 400 Forest were actually the two we were looking at (we literally walk neighborhoods with our dog and look for the crappiest cool house) and are trying to partner with the Avondale Counsel to see funding options.  I was thinking because we're young and the "professional" type that just maybe we would inspire others to look at the area as well.  We both enjoy the preservation of history and are not too worried about the current state of a neighborhood.  Just as long as it has plans to turn around.  I may have taken a peak at the inside and it would be a total renovation.  I didn't know the likely hood of any of the those restoration show being a possibility to apply?  I know that neither of the houses are currently on the market but Forrest is in foreclosure from it's records.  It's just a dream at this point but we figured while we were young and can still do things ourselves we might as well look into it! 

965 Burton and 400 Forest were actually the two we were looking at (we literally walk neighborhoods with our dog and look for the crappiest cool house) and are trying to partner with the Avondale Counsel to see funding options.  I was thinking because we're young and the "professional" type that just maybe we would inspire others to look at the area as well.  We both enjoy the preservation of history and are not too worried about the current state of a neighborhood.  Just as long as it has plans to turn around.  I may have taken a peak at the inside and it would be a total renovation.  I didn't know the likely hood of any of the those restoration show being a possibility to apply?  I know that neither of the houses are currently on the market but Forrest is in foreclosure from it's records.  It's just a dream at this point but we figured while we were young and can still do things ourselves we might as well look into it! 

 

I've done a lot of renovations through the years on homes ranging from the 1870's to the 1960's.  965 Burton would be a daunting task for a first timer.  DEEP pockets can overcome almost anything however.,,,,  I mean DEEP.

I haven't gotten to read all of the posts on the forum but this looks like a good place to start.  My boyfriend and I are looking for a historical home in the Cincinnati area.  Primarily Avondale, North Avondale, OTR... and others similar to them.  We like the idea of Avondale because of recently announced grant money moving into the area.  However, I'm confused about that.  I've been told it's going to restoration companies and other times I've been told some is also going to individuals in the community.  If anyone had information about this or could explain it?!?  Anyway, we are young and I would love to have a historic home to renovate.  I did part of a renovation of a community center as my Girl Scout Gold Award project and loved it!  I know this would be a much larger scale and could use some tips or if anyone knows where to take classes or just anything at all I would appreciate it! We need a little (or a lot) of direction to get use started and hopefully the areas we picked will follow!  Like I said, we are young (25) and not much other than starting careers going on and feel we are able to take a chance in a "up and coming" neighborhood since it's just us and our dog with no intensions of children anytime soon!  Thanks!

 

A few pieces of advice... 

 

1) select a small house. It's your first time, so the less rooms you have to work on, the better.  Save a "grand old mansion" project for when you have some experience and are ready for kids to fill those extra rooms.

2) find a place that hasn't been redone recently.  Lots of owners fix things the wrong way, and it's often easier to fix something right the first time than it is to correct someone else's mistakes.

3) work from outside-in.  Your first priority should be preventing damage from the elements, so you should address issues with the roof, chimney, windows, foundation, etc. before anything inside. Nothing is more frustrating than finishing a room, only to have it ruined by a leak you were unaware of.

4) hire a pro to do "dangerous" work. This includes plumbing, roofing, and electrical. It's fine to muddle through things like painting and refinishing floors as a first timer, but you should have a pro handle anything that could seriously injure you or your house.

5) if you work downtown, you should also consider Newport or Bellevue. Both have a large collection of small historic houses that are just waiting for someone to restore them.

It should also be good to note that some work, like electrical, needs to be done by licensed technicians in order to pass inspection.

 

Here are some other pieces of advise:

1. Choose an area that may be prime for an increase in value. It's always great to choose a house in a distressed area, but it may not be a positive return on investment of the rest of the neighborhood doesn't follow. Northside was a huge steal for the longest time, but it also has the highest increase in property values. Rehabs typically sell within one to two weeks.

2. Work with the city and do it on the books. A house next to mine is being rehabbed, and they missed a critical appointment with the city for an exterior inspection. The inspector was visibly upset; that's something you don't want to happen.

3. Apply for tax credits, abatements, etc. You can command a higher selling price, sometimes $10k to $15k more, if the house has a city property tax abatement. For instance, instead of paying $1,000 on property taxes, that person may pay $250. That's a huge sell and very easy to apply for.

4. Don't worry about LEED certification or other "green" nonsense. It is sometimes a lot of extra money for very little return. It makes sense to go ahead and make the home as energy efficient as possible. Install new windows; Andersen Windows sells some great units, both wood and vinyl, that are appropriate for historic rehabs. Insulate, insulate, insulate. Exposed brick is cool, but so is a foot of insulation. (In my house, I have exposed brick built-in bookcases, but 1-foot of insulation nearly everywhere else.) New HE furnaces and water tanks (or on-demand units) are always a good bet. But don't go and add solar panels, solar heaters, rain barrels, etc. that not everyone will go for. You may price yourself out of the market, your budget and not everyone will appreciate it.

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2013/07/knox-hill-zahn-row-demolition-would-be.html

 

We have recieved a lot of email from across the state about what an bad use of moving forward monies are for demo. Our engineer has ooffered that if the part of zahn row is demoed (they pulled the sign from the side the land bank has going to sherrif sale in august), that there would be significant structural compromise to the east side of the Overlook projects lot which has the primary access steps and a side patio, The loss of the 24 inch thick stone wall that makes up the foundation wall of Zahn Row would require the construction of  new retaining  wall structure that would cost an estinmated 20-22,000 dollars. A cost the city will have to bear because its the city's demolition action that causes the issue.  The city legal department is being advised as are several legislators in Ohio and of course the feds that brought the lawsuit making the dispersements of these funds possible. In short smart money should be to stop demo.

 

On much brighter news a major problem property owner in Knox Hill has left and has agreed to sell to a responsible individual with proven restoration track record who has done work in the Pendleton area. That home a 1912 Craftsman Bungalow will certainly be  contributing structure post restoaration.

 

Even better news is the acquisition of the Gertrude Holtz house on Fairmount Ave. That house a 1890 victorian sits on three lots, has a restored tin roof and nice gardens. The gardens are being restored now and its hoped that a new 4 color preservation paint job and recreation of the original front porch will begin in the next few weeks.

 

The stabilized restored exterior home, will then be resold with a protective deed covenant that requires the exterior be maintained to preservation standards, and that it remain a single family. Interior design is up to the owner but interior renovations must take place within 24 months.  The home is 1800 square feet 3 bedrooms 1 1/2 bath with a full basement. It will need ubstancial interior restore including mechanicals. However there is much intact woordwork and the staircase/stairhall area has some unusual "moorish "design, lincrusta wallpaper.

 

So even though Knox Hill is fighting the city on one front, we are saving on two other fronts. Blight DOES NOT have to equal a bulldozer.

Backers: Tax credit 'incredible' for historic buildings

Historic buildings benefit from state program

Jan. 15, 2014 

Written by Bowdeya Tweh

 

 

Abandoned but not forgotten, some of the region’s oldest buildings are getting new lives as office and retail space, apartments, bars and restaurants – and remaking neighborhoods in the process.

 

It’s the result of a state tax credit that promotes the preservation of historic buildings and makes otherwise complex and economically daunting projects possible.

 

Tuesday, supporters of the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit program visited Cincinnati to tout the 7-year-old program that’s helping cities redevelop their urban cores.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20140114/BIZ/301140122/Backers-Tax-credit-incredible-historic-buildings?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

Kurt Reiber, President and CEO of the Freestore Foodbank, representing the owners of 1606-1608 Walnut Street, the Corwine Foundation, has applied for a Certificate of Appropriateness to demolish these structures for a surface parking lot. These properties are located within the Over-the-Rhine Historic District.

 

A pre-hearing conference has been set for Tuesday January 21, 2014 at 9:30 A.M. in Suite 720, Centennial Plaza Two, 805 Central Avenue.  The purpose of this pre-hearing conference is to provide interested parties with an opportunity to review the project and to ask questions prior to the hearing on January 27, 2014. No decision on the application will be made at the pre-hearing conference.  At other times, plans are available for inspection in Centennial Plaza Two, Suite 700, 805 Central Ave.

 

This hearing is being held pursuant to the regulations set forth in Chapter 1435 (Historic Structures, Sites, and Districts) of the Zoning Code of the City of Cincinnati. Information requests and communications should be directed to the staff person and office listed below.  Individuals with disabilities who need reasonable accommodation or special modifications to participate should contact the Secretary, in Suite 700, Centennial Plaza Two, 805 Central Avenue 352-4888 in advance.

These two wonderful buildings: http://goo.gl/maps/5725a

Freestore has not been a good neighbor to OTR :/

People need to come out in full force to prevent them from demolishing these buildings. This would be a travesty with all of the redevelopment happening in OTR. Freestore must realize it is now or never to demolish these buildings.

The Freestore is totally out of touch with OTR.  These buildings have value. Value as historic, neighborhood assets.  Value as housing for the people they serve.  Or maybe value as income, if they developed them for profit.  They should definitely not be allowed to benefit from their neglect.  When they bought these buildings years ago, they were run down, but still had roofs and windows.  The Board of Directors should be prosecuted and fined, not rewarded for their neglect.

This is exactly why we need to at least start exploring the idea of more of a land-based property taxing scheme, so that property owners can't benefit from demolishing buildings in favor of surface parking.  As it is, even derelict buildings are more valuable than vacant land or parking lots, so the tax burden is reduced if they're demolished.  It's a perverse situation, one the city should be doing everything it can to reverse since it reduces the tax base, but sadly it's not on hardly anyone's radar.  I certainly have little confidence that the current administration would be open to any sort of reform along these lines.  Heck, I'm surprised they haven't tried to roll back the progress that's already been made on form based codes, let alone historic preservation.  If Freestore wanted to demolish the buildings in order to build something new, then we can have a constructive conversation about it, but for surface parking in the middle of OTR?  That shouldn't even be up for consideration. 

^Is that a city, county, or state thing?

Music Hall & Union Terminal stuff

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/01/16/foundation-chief-cincinnati-donors.html

 

The Greater Cincinnati Foundation and the Carol Ann and Ralph V. Haile Jr./U.S. Bank Foundation announced this week that they are creating a task force to study Union Terminal and Music Hall, what needs to be done to fix them and how to pay for it.

They appointed former Procter & Gamble CEO Bob McDonald to lead the panel.

This is exactly why we need to at least start exploring the idea of more of a land-based property taxing scheme, so that property owners can't benefit from demolishing buildings in favor of surface parking.  As it is, even derelict buildings are more valuable than vacant land or parking lots, so the tax burden is reduced if they're demolished.  It's a perverse situation, one the city should be doing everything it can to reverse since it reduces the tax base, but sadly it's not on hardly anyone's radar.  I certainly have little confidence that the current administration would be open to any sort of reform along these lines.  Heck, I'm surprised they haven't tried to roll back the progress that's already been made on form based codes, let alone historic preservation.  If Freestore wanted to demolish the buildings in order to build something new, then we can have a constructive conversation about it, but for surface parking in the middle of OTR?  That shouldn't even be up for consideration. 

 

Does the freestore, or any other non-profit, pay any city property tax?  And the city can only control the city's property tax millage, which is a very low percentage of the overall property tax paid by city property owners.  Even if the city's property tax *doubled* for vacant lots, it might still be a lower overall property tax burden for owners.

 

The way property taxes are calculated is very complex, and very few people actually know how it works and could recommend a solution. 

 

That's a good point about non-profits.  Of course it doesn't mean they should be immune from civic responsibility.

I’ve always wondered if there was a way the city could slide something into the zoning code for certain overlay districts that would specifically prohibit demolition for parking. That way whoever applies for a demolition permit would need to also submit some type of plan or narrative stating what the building will be replaced with.

 

That wouldn’t stop people from demolishing a building just to have a vacant lot, but I think that’s a lot less common than demolition for parking.

 

 

Time lapse of the demolition of Wilson Memorial Hall on UC's campus.

I always think of demolition as just knock it down and clean it up.  There's clearly planning, technique, and skill at work.  Great video.

Did anybody make it to the hearing yesterday? 

I saw on FB about 12 people spoke up in opposition to the Walnut St demos. The next meeting has been postponed.

just hearsay.

Sacrifice OTR history for more parking?

Jan. 22, 2014 8:37 AM 

Written by John Johnston

 

 

In Over-the-Rhine, old buildings are plentiful, but parking is scarce. So should some of the former be sacrificed to make more of the latter?

 

It’s a question that goes to the heart of an issue that will be considered by the city’s Historic Conservation Board and involves buildings owned by the Freestore Foodbank.

 

The vacant buildings, at 1606 and 1608 Walnut St., were built in 1880 and are examples of the Italianate architecture for which the Over-the-Rhine Historic District is nationally known.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20140122/NEWS01/301220059

Parking in OTR is scarce? 

Maybe 3CDC can offer the FreeStore some parking spaces in one of their 300-space parking garages.

Seriously, parking in OTR is not bad, and last I checked there's a massive surface parking lot across the street attached to a bar that's open 3-4 day per year.  Sell these buildings to someone who wants to rehab them and cut a deal with Grammers to use their parking lot. 

Parking in OTR is scarce? 

 

I lived half a block south of these properties on Walnut and never once wasn’t able to find a spot to park on the street. Although it’s a sketchy looking street, 15th is always empty (and has a police camera aimed down it, anyway). The only time it was hard to find parking was when the Free Store gave away Thanksgiving turkeys, but 10 spots isn’t going to alleviate that, anyway.

 

I’m not a fan of the director’s rhetoric, either. It’s a good point that every $1 they spend on a building is $1 worth of food that could go to someone, however providing food is only their primary mission; it doesn’t alleviate them of their other responsibilities. In this case, they have a responsibility to be respectful of their neighbors and community.

 

I live at 15th and Walnut too.  I will say that there are more and more cars on the streets as buildings are getting rehabbed.  Three buildings just opened on 15th and two more are under construction.  That said, I still look out my window daily at the Grammer's parking lot.  It's completely empty all the time.  A deal can be made there.

That said, I still look out my window daily at the Grammer's parking lot.  It's completely empty all the time.  A deal can be made there.

 

They are leasing out monthly spaces in that lot now, I believe through Urban Sites.

The Freestore also has a building on Central across from Music Hall. IDK what that's used for. Ideally, they move to the Homeless Mall© in Queensgate.

I got to tour the restored Rauh house yesterday in Woodlawn (a stone's throw from Wyoming).  Beautifully restored, and a very interesting mid-century modern residence.  Though not at all to my taste, I could appreciate it.  Really a great job all around (including especially by our own jjakucyk). 

After many years of decline there may be an opportunity to save the only raised basement Queen Anne Cottage in Fairmount.

 

The cottage was converted into church many years ago and much of its ornamentation (including its tower) was removed. The church is now offering the building for sale for 40K (will likely sell for far less). This is a unique structure that deserves to be saved and it sits within the planed north expansion zone of Knox Hill. The property sits at the corner of Trevor and Baltimore which will be the North entrance to the Knox Hill Neighborhood.

 

More info about the property is on a recent Blog post I did, here:

http://victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2014/04/wanted-preservation-hero-with-higher.html

 

I have also worked up a possible "after" showing the property redeveloped. There is room for 1 car garage on the site if the shed is removed. I would buy it myself but I have eight homes under restoration in Knox Hill and I cant save them all. This is a huge "cottage" . My fear is if someone doesn't buy it to restore, it will continue its decline as church or worse yet get divided up into apartments

 

You can see the potential.  How old is it?

We believe it was built post 1890 but no later than 1900, this was the time period in which Queen Anne style was popular. Some of the elements suggest that it may be loosely based on some of the Geo Barber plans of the day, If you put the building in its built context as cottage it was a "big" cottage. I believe it can be bought for less.

I lived in Cincinnati in the 1970's and I remember part of the city's historic preservation agenda at the time was to preserve gas street lamps.  I recall maybe there were a few thousand of them scattered around mostly in Hyde Park and Clifton I believe.  At some point I think there was a special assessment to pay the added operating and maintenance costs of the gas light system.  And I recall they burned all day long since it's obviously impractical to keep snuffing them and re-lighting them.

 

Well, that was 40 years ago...I noticed today google street view still shows a lot of gas lamps in areas where I remember them.  So, my question is...what is the current status of the gas lamp system?  Are there still 1,000+of these fixtures in areas like Clifton and Hyde Park?  Are are they still operable and well-maintained? 

A family I knew in Springfield bought a couple for their house in the 60s.

There's a special national historic district specifically for the gas lights.  It's kind of an odd thing since it's not really a "district" per se, but it covers all the lights in it, something like 1,100 of them in 13 different neighborhoods.  Duke Energy maintains them all as far as I know, and in conjunction with much of the gas main replacement that's been going on they've also been replacing the regulators and mantles.  I'd say they're kept in decent condition, though they keep the gas turned down pretty low to save money, so they're not very bright.  I only rarely see ones that aren't lit, and I've never seen one where the glass was broken.  I think the people who have them on their streets are probably pretty possessive about them and are quick to report any problems.  I believe the city even has a special category for gas lights in its customer service system.

 

Now if they'd just extend the love to the yellow island lights, which are almost if not entirely unique to Cincinnati...

 

^Is that really a yellow street island gas light?  Holy cow that is cool!! I lived in Cincinnati from 1972-1976 and I don't recall seeing anything like that.  Maybe I saw them and just assumed they were electric.

 

Anyway, your post above made me think of another question.  What I know about gas is that it is often piped under the street at very high pressures, and normally must go through a reduction valve before it enters your house or a fixture like this.  So where are the reduction valves? 

The light in the picture is electric.  He's just referring to the unique yellow bell that hides the bulb.  A friend of mine pointed these out to me maybe 10 years ago.  I had never even noticed them before, but they're all over town and I really like them.