I walked passed the other night, and from the north side of 6th street, the thing is that massive blank wall is incredibly forboding. It is also incredibly dark (although that may be because the building is mostly abandoned.) All the interesting features of the hotel can only be viewed from above. This is weird but I also feel like the sheer equal-and-opposite mass of it keeps me from looking up at the Cincinnatian Hotel, which is detailed and interesting, when on Vine south of 6th St.  I understand that the Terrace Hotel is a landmark but it does seem to have some legitimate urban issues with it, even if activated at street level. Right now it creates a low activity zone between Vine and 84.91.

 

I would be for activating the wall in some way, taking advantage of the fact it is a massive blank wall. Rock it if we're going to keep it. Perhaps do a permanent block long  Lumenocity style projection show of P&G and Macy's commercials. If that's not practical at least put up video boards on the corners as Ryan suggested. It would certainly give that area (the heart of our downtown) more of a Times Square or Shibuya feel to it. May help with Race St. retail corridor too.

 

 

Actually I really like the idea of a giant video board on the 6th and Vine corner. You'd be able to see it all the way down 6th St. including by the CAC, Aronoff and all the fancy restaurants. Would feel very big city.

Wouldn't even need a permanent video screen (or permission of the owners  :wink) to add some interest to that corner if i've learned anything from Luminosity.

Maybe the Miro that used to be inside can be projected onto the exterior as a moving mobile?? We can do it!!!! Not me necessarily, but this city has the talent to.

Just looked at it again for the first time in a while, that moving would be trippy.

Something needs to be done with this building. Right now it is really masking the recovery of economic activity in the CBD (or unmasking the fragility of the recovery?) The area around 6th and Walnut has a lot of high end activity going on, and this building creates a dead zone barrier that makes that activity seem like an island. If you think only about the parts of the building (the three stores) that are active and imagine away the rest, it would look like a small low density strip mall in the heart of downtown.

 

This concept seems interesting for the Terrace Plaza: http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/30/craft-brewery-theater-scouting-cincinnati-for.html

 

But the Terrace Plaza probably does not meet that business's selection criteria because it's within three miles of the theater at Newport on the Levee. (It also seems to be looking for an auto-oriented location? Hope people are using designated drivers.) Interestingly enough I think a location as part of a mixed use development along Liberty St. or Central Parkway might be far enough away from the Levee to qualify.

What if we projected a giant horizontal game of Plinko on the side of the building where the puck starts at 6th and Vine and "falls" towards slots located at 6th and Race. It would definitely engage passerbys (but might encourage street gambling too.) Maybe you could add some kind of smartphone interaction where you could win promotional prizes from local companies.

 

if this idea seems out there, it's because the building was designed to do something (stand apart from the street) that's the direct opposite of our ideas about urbanism, so it's going to take a lot of creativity to reconcile this! Definitely not as easy as saying "oh we'll make it mixed use with upper story residential and ground floor office/retail" like most of our historic buildings lend themselves to.

 

EDIT: the Plinko idea may sound dumb but I bet it would be super popular with tourists and visitors, we need to think of ways to turn this building from a liability to an opportunity.

^ You could throw in an occasional ad from sponsors in order to pay for the projection. It'd be like a scene out of Blade Runner, which is fine by me.

Projections are definitely an interesting choice, and one I'd support. It doesn't necessarily help humanize it during the day, but a combination of some simple architectural changes in conjunction with something as Bill described could make a world of difference. I still think simply opening up the entire second floor to be glass would be enough to bring the scale down to a more reasonable size without completely destroying the historic modernist nature of the building. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would strike a balance between preservation and creating an urban asset (something this building has never been).

Legal proceedings regarding the Terrace Plaza Hotel: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/02/16/judge-could-soon-approve-terrace-plaza-sale/80446258/

 

The historic Terrace Plaza Hotel in Downtown Cincinnati may be sold soon if a plan from the property's court-appointed receiver is approved.

 

Prodigy Properties wants Judge Steven Martin to accept a $7 million bid from Madison Realty Investments on the 15 W. Sixth St. property, according to a report filed in the Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas. Jeff Lane, a Columbia Township-based principal of Prodigy Properties, said no one has filed to challenge the sale and it was the only bid obtained on the property.

 

A court hearing to confirm the sale is scheduled Feb. 26.

Not that it means anything, but there have been people walking around and inspecting the roof all day. A couple guys in hard hats hanging from the mechanical structure, a couple of suits taking pictures and they have been in and out all day. Hopefully this means someone is buying it (for redevelopment and not demolition...)

^ Looks like a small makeshift office has been set up as well. Here's hoping for some more good news for downtown.

Does anyone know the bizarre change that occurred? 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/21/battle-over-downtowns-former-terrace-plaza-hotel.html

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing too bizarre IMO. One of the owners went in at night and changed the locks.

Looks like there is a decision, does anyone have full access to the site?

 

EXCLUSIVE: U.S. bankruptcy judge rules in former Terrace Plaza hotel case

Apr 27, 2016, 12:39pm EDT

Tom Demeropolis

Senior Staff Reporter

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

A U.S. bankruptcy judge has ruled in the battle over the former Terrace Plaza hotel in downtown Cincinnati.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/27/u-s-bankruptcy-judge-rules-in-former-terrace-plaza.html

Anyone behind the paywall want to let us know what the outcome was?

Beth Buchanan, U.S. Bankruptcy judge for the Southern District of Ohio, ruled April 26 that a receivership sale of the 20-story building at 15 W. Sixth St. can move forward in Hamilton County Commons Pleas Court. A confirmation of that sale is scheduled for April 28 in front of Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Steven Martin.

So does anyone know what that means in terms of potential redevelopment?  Sorry, I need to get access to Biz Journals, badly.

On this article all it really says is that they are allowed to sell it in a bankruptucy sale, so these owners are getting out of it.

 

Hopefully whoever buys it is a comitted developer with a solid plan.  But until it is sold and to whom, hard to tell what will happen

This is a good thing. The property was sold in the state receivership to a qualified buyer who bought the debt held by the partners, who were shady,and had their own problematic bankruptcy case. So the Bankruptcy Court had to first bless this and now it can proceed in the receivership.  My understanding is that the future owners have an appreciation for the history of the Terrace Plaza and are looking to renovate it accordingly.

The Business Courier has a neat slideshow of photos of the interior of the building: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/27/get-a-look-inside-the-former-terrace-plaza-hotel.html

 

 

Does anyone recall if this building has any on-site parking?

Does anyone recall if this building has any on-site parking?

 

No onsite parking. Just the valet for the hotel.

I wonder if you could adapt the podium (starting with the third floor) into parking. No windows required for that use.

I could see that working. Maybe they could even work out a deal with to use that big curb cut on Race (is that for Macy's?) so we wouldn't need another.

This photo of the office floor shows a pretty wide open layout with a lot of space between the columns, which makes it seem like it'd be pretty flexible. But I have no idea if the structure can support the weight of a floor full of cars.

Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

 

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.

Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

 

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.

 

Whoa! I had no idea. Very interesting!

I was just thinking that same thing.  We moved into this old office which is actually an old house in E. Walnut Hills and it was a law office and they left all their law books on the second and third floors along with desks, etc.  You would not believe how heavy all those law books were when we moved them.  I think I broke my back doing it almost, had to use a cart to wheel them down the stairs.  It was about 50 boxes worth and I swear each box was 100 lbs. at least.  Then you add in as well we got all these filing cabinets and they are so flipping heavy, and to think in a big office setting that is fairly densely packed, I can't imagine the weight some floors have in those office towers downtown.

 

All that said, that would be great if a really good developer lands this and let's hope they are creative and put something forward that is really neat.

 

If worst comes to it, IMO, you can always place a call center type office on that blank landing they make up some video boards or something unique like murals on the big brick walls.

Something as simple as building out a frame (to leave the brick intact as to appease historic conservation standards which I'd be in support of) that has a surface that you could hire ArtWorks to create a mural on and you've taken an uncomfortable blank space and turned it into something that would be a draw for the public to go see since it would be such a massive piece of artwork.

 

I still think the second floor should be opened up though to create a double height commercial space since the ground level is uncomfortably short. Modernizing the storefront, creating a gigantic mural that wraps three sides of the base, creating a unique apartment complex in the tower, and opening the rooftop/bar thing (the circular element) to the public would be an ideal situation in my mind. The base could either house offices or a garage and it would work either way.

Fun fact, the load conditions one designs for in a parking garage are less than office floors generally. Filing cabinets, bookcases, desks, etc. are all very heavy. Even moreso than a car typically is on a per-square-foot basis.

 

That being said, I don't know if that same statement holds true for something of this age and how it compares to modern standards of construction of parking garages, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was more than capable of handling the load of a parking garage.

 

Whoa! I had no idea. Very interesting!

 

It goes against what you'd expect but makes sense when you think about it. As a "for instance" I drove a 2005 Hyundai Sonata for a couple years during grad school which takes up 95 square feet of space. It weighed 3,400 pounds empty. That's 35.8 lbs/square foot.

 

I currently own about 100 books, the largest of which weighs 12 pounds (it's a tad large) but it's pretty easy to see how quickly just the weight of something like books can easily surpass 35.8 lbs/square foot.

 

I just looked up a typical 4 foot tall filing cabinet with a footprint that's 1.8 square feet and it has a holding capacity of 68 lb.s per drawer times 4 drawers equals 151 lbs/square foot just for stuff in it. That doesn't even include the weight of the cabinet itself. A room with the dimensions of a typical parking space (10' x 20') with these lined up could potentially be holding nearly 4.5 tons of dead weight at any point in addition to the weight of people, accessories, etc.

 

It's crazy how heavy offices really are. Very unexpected but completely logical when you actually look into how much all that crap weighs.

Yep, the live load for a parking garage is just 40 lbs/sq ft (PSF).  Of course there's pretty high concentrated load factors as well since the weight of a car is sitting on four contact patches that are only about six inches square.  Offices and residential uses are also in the 30-50 PSF range, but corridors, lobbies, or any sort of assembly space easily doubles those numbers.  I recently designed an outdoor deck for a commercial assembly use (think wedding receptions, dances, etc.) and there we used a 150 PSF live load, but even then it's still just 2x10 joists at 12" on center over a 13' span.  Nothing crazy by any stretch of the imagination there. 

This is precisely why I see notes from engineers when we ask them to look over stuff and question some of their input for really typical construction situations. In a house with pretty average sized rooms it seems unnecessary to ever really need 2x12s. I worked on a project recently where a Dining Room was extended 2'-6" out onto two piers and when the engineer looked over everything he suggested 2x10 floor and ceiling joists at 12" o.c. max. It felt like such overkill for something that could easily be handled by much smaller lumber with a typical spacing of 16".

Cantilevers do complicate things especially with wood construction, but that does sound excessive.  The other things is that you need the depth of a 2x12 to get the required R-38 roof insulation in our climate.  Closed-cell foam, or rigid foam above the roof deck, is the only way to get that R-value in less than that depth.  Also, anything less than a 2x10 needs a fire barrier, which can be a problem in a basement if you're trying to save money by not finishing it. 

If you haven't read Caseyc[/member]'s piece from 2009 on the Terrace you should.

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx

If you haven't read Caseyc[/member]'s piece from 2009 on the Terrace you should.

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/01006terracehotel.aspx

 

The inimitable P. Casey Coston

A little different perspective than the usual thanks to a condo being for sale in this building.  Very 'Ship-like' as it sails upstream on 6th street.

 

A little different perspective than the usual thanks to a condo being for sale in this building.  Very 'Ship-like' as it sails upstream 6th street.

 

Beautiful! The restaurant at the top must have some killer views, and the terrace above the hotel proper would offer a great place to spend time as well.

Just curious but are there windows on the south side? If so I wonder if that has had an effect on the redevlopement, being half of the hotel would get very little sunlight and have views of a blank wall.

^ Yeah, there are rooms on the south side as well, though not as many as the north because the elevator core is on the south wall.

Just curious but are there windows on the south side? If so I wonder if that has had an effect on the redevlopement, being half of the hotel would get very little sunlight and have views of a blank wall.

 

Yep there are, though towards the front they face a blank wall. The further west ones are unobstructed. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati,+OH/@39.099616,-84.5176749,193a,20y,47.82h,69.54t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x884051b1de3821f9:0x69fb7e8be4c09317!8m2!3d39.1031182!4d-84.5120196

 

They actually do have windows on most (but not all) of the south side. The west half of the south side does has windows with unimpeded views. And on the east half of the south side, the upper tower "steps back" a bit from the base, allowing those units to still have some light and views towards Vine St. Certainly not the best views, but there will be light. There is a portion in the middle of the building that doesn't have windows, but I think that might be used for mechanicals and/or elevators.

 

Here's a view, courtesy of Auditor's website of the south west side:

 

Here's a view, courtesy of Google Earth from the south east side:

From a quick count from google images, just the southeast side looks obstructed. So about 20 rooms with obstructed views.

 

Would be great for an suspended sculpture/art commission to enliven the vertical volume of the alley and provide privacy/screening. Or... just reprogram 20 of the rooms to provide lounges or upgraded amenities at that part of the floor...

Another view, perhaps the best to get a feel for the location of the windows:

 

great photo JYP[/member]

 

Based on that photo, I actually don't think they had to brick in any windows when the Huntington tower went up.

Never noticed that little leg that sticks out. Kind of crazy, it appears that there was a whole street front of businesses that was removed when they built the Macy's.

In the photo posted by Rabbit Hash[/member], does it say "PENNEYS" on the west side of the building? I knew it had housed a Bond department store, but it's neat to see that JC Penney was also there at the same time. I wonder how the building was split up between Bond and JC Penney. Was it split by floor or did they share the same floors, split east/west?

Bond had two floors along Vine and Penny's had the Race corner. The valet entrance on 6th Street for the hotel is not original to the building and used to be more retail space.

With the Cincinnati Gardens purchased and seemingly headed for demo by the Port Authority, would it be possible for the base of the Terrace Plaza to be renovated to include an ice rink and/or roller derby track? Or would structural load-bearing columns get in the way? This would really mix up the uses downtown which would be good for vibrancy (whether it's economically viable or not is a different story...)