1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

I don't think it's that weird that the call centers were in another city. I've noticed that were you send your utility bills is almost always in a town not served by or not the HQ city of the company. Like, AEP bills go to Canton or something, Vectren bills go to Cincinnati or something, Columbia Gas bills go to Cleveland or whatever, maybe Duke Energy bills go to Akron? It's weird.

 

edit: OK, AEP bills go to Pittsburgh and Columbia Gas bills go to Cincinnati despite both being Columbus-based companies.

It makes for longer hikes for those intending to take up pickforks and torches perhaps? That, or they are just looking for a cheap labor pool regardless what region it happens to be in.

 

That's like the old trick where 25% of states mail their taxes to the IRS to a Cincinnati PO Box but the IRS is really in Covington. But to save on labor costs Columbia Gas and AEP could put their facilities in Obetz, Groveport or on Columbus' West Side where the same jobs don't pay nearly what they do in Dublin/Worthington/Westerville, Downtown or Grandview. I don't think Cincinnati is quite like that where the same job doing the same work in Milford, Blue Ash or the CBD pays 40% more than it does in Beavis. Maybe Pittsburgh is though. Like jobs closer to Mt. Morris pay half as much.

Edited January 17, 20196 yr by GCrites80s

15 hours ago, edale said:

I went to an urban putt putt golf course in San Francisco this past weekend. Seems like something like that would be a good fit for the windowless portion of the base. The problem is, there are plenty of individual users that could take some of this space, but it's very hard to think of a single tenant, or multiple smaller tenants, who could fill the whole thing. BTW, does anyone have floor plans for these bricked up floors? Are the floors largely wide open since it was formerly a department store, or are the spaces broken up into smaller rooms?

I was hoping for an urban miniature golf course in that little might be a park but I think it's owned by CRC north of Panino.

As legal battle over Terrace Plaza mounts, the building is literally falling apart

 

Last fall, a chunk of the building fell off, striking a car that was driving down West Sixth Street. Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley said the city is pursuing the owners of the building, JNY Capital, to fix the building, which the Cincinnati Preservation Association calls “the most important Modernist building in Cincinnati” and “the most progressive hotel of its day.”

 

“We’re aggressively going after them for negligence and putting people at risk, literally almost getting three people killed,” Cranley told me. “This is a real public hazard.”

Developer asks for judgment in Terrace Plaza lawsuit

 

The Indianapolis-based real estate developer that had plans for a massive overhaul of the Terrace Plaza is asking a federal judge to make a partial summary judgment to unwind the transfer of the former downtown hotel.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/01/30/developer-asks-for-judgment-in-terrace-plaza.html

The Business Courier is running a poll about what you think should happen with the Terrace Plaza--preserve or tear down and redevelop.

Since when was tear it down a suggestion anyone brought to the table? Great poll....

The leading questions in that poll make me sad. 

Yeah, it was not a great poll question. Tearing it completely down has never been proposed as far as I know.

Historic Conservation Board just approved local landmark status for the Terrace Plaza in a 5-1 vote.
 

 

This would provide protections to the building should someone propose a renovation that modifies the exterior or proposes demolition. City Council still needs to approve of this for it to be adopted. I'm not certain, but Planning Commission may also have to approve it before it goes to council. I know they have to approve proposals for historic buildings being renovated or demolished, but I'm not sure if they have to approve the designation.

Terrace Plaza should get historic designation, panel recommends

 

The former Terrace Plaza Hotel, Cincinnati’s most prominent Modernist building, should be landmarked by the City Council, the city’s Historic Conservation Board recommended Monday in a 5-1 vote.

 

The board heard about an hour of testimony and debate before taking its vote. The final decision will come from the Cincinnati City Council, but first, the city’s planning commission will have a hearing on it and make a recommendation.

 

The landmark designation would add another piece of intrigue to the future of the massive, International-style building at 15 W. Sixth St., which was the first major Modernist structure built in the city after World War II. Its ownership is currently disputed in a case in U.S. District Court, with Indianapolis-based developer Anderson Birkla trying to wrest control of it from New York-based JNY Capital. Meanwhile, the city has slapped JNY Capital with nearly $59,000 in fines for code violations, which its attorney, Brad Kaplan, said the firm is addressing. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/02/25/terrace-plaza-should-get-historic-designation.html

The Union Carbide building in NYC, also SOM is slated to be torn down and replaced. I wonder what New York preservationists have to say about that project? It's a stunning building, unlike TPH, which now unfortunately may continue to deteriorate.

8 minutes ago, Yves Behar said:

The Union Carbide building in NYC, also SOM is slated to be torn down and replaced. I wonder what New York preservationists have to say about that project? It's a stunning building, unlike TPH, which now unfortunately may continue to deteriorate.

 

The current owners stated at the HCB meeting that their current plans for the building don't involve major changes to the facade. Why would this designation prevent it from being renovated? A plan can always be approved despite exterior changes, it just needs to go through one more layer of scrutiny. 

 

Honestly, if you are proposing and multi-hundred million dollar renovation of a building, the HCB approval of your plan is the smallest problem you'll face.

1 hour ago, Yves Behar said:

The Union Carbide building in NYC, also SOM is slated to be torn down and replaced. I wonder what New York preservationists have to say about that project? It's a stunning building, unlike TPH, which now unfortunately may continue to deteriorate.

 

There is a summation of that in this NYT Opinion piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/opinion/union-carbide-building-manhattan.html

 

Quote

The news prompted two immediate responses. The first was an outcry by preservationists. That part was predictable; what is surprising this time around was their wistful sense of resignation. Instead of campaigning to save the building, critics are already wading through its ruins, lamenting an earlier age when corporate skyscrapers married design precision with extraordinary material beauty and symbolized the collective spirit of a surging society. No battles will be waged over this building, which is not protected by landmark status: Everyone knows it is a goner.

 

I would say with Terrace Plaza, the situation is different. This building represents a movement struggling to find its footing near the end of the art-deco era. There is plenty in the design of the building to reflect the style and grace of that era. Still, the elephant in the room for me is the 7 stories of the windowless brick facade, which is just bad urbanism, regardless of architectural expression.

 

Sure, landmark designation will help prevent demolitions but it could also constrain efforts for rehabilitation. 

I think this designation is good but also keep in mind that it doesn't prevent the developers from doing anything. I just adds another approval that the developers need to get, as @ryanlammi noted. If the developers come back and say they want to cover the brick section with Times Square-style video screens because that's the only way they can make the project work financially, I guarantee City Council would approve that plan.

 

20 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

City Council still needs to approve of this for it to be adopted. I'm not certain, but Planning Commission may also have to approve it before it goes to council. I know they have to approve proposals for historic buildings being renovated or demolished, but I'm not sure if they have to approve the designation.

 

The Planning Commission will vote on the historic designation, however it goes to City Council whether the Planning Commission approves of the designation or not. If Planning does not approve of the designation then City Council has to muster six votes to affirm the designation. If the Planning Commission does approve of the designation then only five Council members are needed to affirm the designation.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/25/terrace-plaza-owners-reveal-design-team-for.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

 

 

Terrace Plaza owners reveal design team for historic redevelopment

 

The owners of the Terrace Plaza Hotel property in downtown Cincinnati have assembled a design team for a “top-to-bottom” renovation of the historical property.

 

The planned renovation of the building at 15 W. Sixth St. will be led by the Terrace Plaza’s original architectural firm, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP, according to a news release from attorneys representing JNY Capital, which purchased the building in August 2018. GBBN will partner with SOM, along with a team of Ohio-based preservation specialists.

 

Ezra Unger, CEO of JNY Capital, said he thinks the people of Cincinnati will be “thrilled” with the plans.

 

“The Terrace Plaza is a distinctive part of the Cincinnati skyline and its redevelopment is long overdue,” Unger said in a news release. “We’ve put together an incredible team of design experts who will breathe new life into one of the most important Modernist buildings of its time.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/25/terrace-plaza-owners-reveal-design-team-for.html

 

This is great news, hopefully this one sticks. I feel like the fact that SOM is involved should help ease historic preservationists worries, as the original architect they should definitely respect the original design and why it's important as their first hotel ever.

 

Even if the brick base changes substantially, if it's the original architecture firm proposing those changes it somehow seems more palatable, like they are signing off on the changes (even if the original designer herself is gone). 

It will be exciting to see the day when the macys store is fully redeveloped again (hopefully into a new tower), and the Terrance plaza hotel fully redeveloped and reactivated. 

This project has had many owners, architects, and designs. Lets just keep our fingers crossed they can properly enclose the building and save it from the elements. 

Would love to see a rooftop bar. Would definitely make it the highest in the city. 

21 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Would love to see a rooftop bar. Would definitely make it the highest in the city. 

Both the Hotel lobby level outdoor area and the top Gourmet Room level are amazing spaces. I cant wait till they can be redone and shown off for their amazing potential. From the gourmet room level the Cincinnatian Hotel is WAYYYY below you and looks so tiny, plus there are great views everywhere but directly south.

 

Quote

Is Terrace Plaza Hotel better or worse nearly a year after Cincinnati filed public nuisance claim?

 

As developers battle in court over who owns the Terrace Plaza Hotel and the city awaits trial on its public nuisance case, city officials say the iconic building is deteriorating and significant code violations remain.

 

"All of the conditions that led the city to file the public nuisance lawsuit, the falling of the concrete, the cracks, all those things still exist,” said Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley. "The current owner is clearly letting the building deteriorate and not investing anything.”

 

Also:

 

Quote

"All they got to do is fix it. You know, spend money. It's worthless,” said Batsakes owner Gus Miller, who has sold hats to presidents and celebrities for 69 years.

 

Thanks for the insight, Gus.

The shady dealings of the building selling has angered alot of people in this city. At least Birkla has spent the time, money, and due diligence in order to invest in the property properly. To have the property sold out from under you while you were under contract is messed up. He has a track record of sticking to plans and go through with projects. This umbrella company in NYC just seems like someone buying property to hide money...

5 hours ago, taestell said:

 

Also:

 

Turn the base into band practice spaces.  

On 1/29/2020 at 2:59 PM, savadams13 said:

This umbrella company in NYC just seems like someone buying property to hide money...

The group out of Brooklyn also has a design for the building that they can implement once the court ruling is complete. Their design is done by SOM (original designers) that doesn't destroy the building's history. That being said, I also hate how long the legal proceedings are taking. Cranley getting involved certainly doesn't help the deal look legitimate. 

On 1/31/2020 at 11:27 AM, Largue said:

The group out of Brooklyn also has a design for the building that they can implement once the court ruling is complete. Their design is done by SOM (original designers) that doesn't destroy the building's history. That being said, I also hate how long the legal proceedings are taking. Cranley getting involved certainly doesn't help the deal look legitimate. 

Is this design anywhere on the internet? Curious to see SOM's renovation of their own work.

On 2/3/2020 at 9:52 AM, surpriseitsminh said:

Is this design anywhere on the internet? Curious to see SOM's renovation of their own work.

They haven't made the design public yet, I believe they're waiting until the litigation sorts itself out before they release anything. However, I've seen their design and was impressed with the historical sensitivity and their reasoning behind design/programming decisions. They also seem relatively far along. What they produced goes beyond just a rendering or a rough layout. 

That being said, the characterization of JNY as "buying property to hide money" is pretty ignorant. To me, they seem very invested in making the project happen. Anderson Birkla kept kicking the can down the road and not finalizing any deals, so JNY capitalized on their inactivity and snatched up the property.

What’s the chances Of this become fast tracked since the millenium is now out of commission?

On 2/4/2020 at 12:23 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

What’s the chances Of this become fast tracked since the millenium is now out of commission?

 

There's a long way to go with the Terrace Hotel building.  First, ownership rights have to be decided in court.  I'm told JNY Capital has title currently, but that is being challenged by Anderson Birkla who had a contract on the property when JNY bought the Seller (brilliant move) and enforced provisions of the contract putting A-B in default and canceling their contract.  A-B has sued for breach of contract and I believe that suit is to be heard in April, but who know how long it will take for a final legal decision.  If ownership gets resolved there are still questions as to whether renovation is financially feasible and if what is feasible will be allowed by City, historic agencies and preservationists.  The building has not been maintained for many years and the water damage has been extensive.  It would be fantastic to bring this building back to life, but can anyone afford to do it? 

Terrace Plaza Designated 11 Most Endangered Historic Place

 

Quote

The Terrace Plaza Hotel is the most important International Style building in Cincinnati and is of national significance. Designed in 1945-46 in the New York office of Skidmore, Owings and Merrill (SOM) and built between 1946-48, it was the most progressive American hotel of its day and the first building by SOM to be widely published. This “push-button palace” included many cutting-edge technologies and was the first high-rise in the United States to have automated elevators and user-controlled AC and phones in every guest room. Pioneering architect Natalie de Blois was the lead designer and went on to design Lever House, Pepsi-Co, and Union Carbide. The Terrace contained spectacular interiors which featured modern art and design by major artists, architects, and designers; indeed, it was acclaimed as the best synthesis of modern art and architecture in America at the time.

 

Mostly vacant since 2008, the 20-story building is being damaged by neglect. Local advocates believe that rehabilitating the Terrace Plaza will not only preserve a key early Modern landmark, but will provide economic benefits for downtown Cincinnati. This pioneering work of modern architecture is threatened by long term vacancy and development challenges. Today this underutilized building in the heart of downtown Cincinnati is deteriorating.  Recent proposals to redevelop the Terrace Plaza range from sensitive restoration of its historic features to plans that utilize only its concrete frame.  Recognition of the icon of modernism will help ensure decisions about its future are guided by an awareness of its national significance.

 

 Learn more about the Terrace Plaza and the other 10 Endangered Places at SavingPlaces.org/11most

 

 

Well this is sad on so many levels. The Terrace Plaza has hit the level of the ruin porn instagrammer tourists. People who make up crap and use the word 'bandos' without irony. I was here a few years back on a tour and it was in empty stripped shape but not vandalized and seemingly turned into a hobo rave palace.The city needs to step in or step away or nothing will be left to save soon.

 

 

Perfect example of internet garbage where they know nothing about what they are exploring

Smash that like button, fam.

dude had a Great Dane. 

I always get excited when this thread is active, hoping to see good news about this building. I really love it. Those people are idiots, I'm so annoyed.

 

Look at this sofa, dude it looks still so nice. UGH, you realize this place used to have hotel rooms with sofa's that transformed into a bed when you pushed a button in 1948??  That Ashley sofa is not impressive you dumb ass.

Edited November 8, 20204 yr by metrocity

9 hours ago, metrocity said:

 you dumb ass.

 

Yeah these are a bunch of pill-popping, train-hopping losers.  Then the blonde North Face girl is somehow in the middle of this not unlike the blonde girl on The Munsters. 

This is thing is even more factually inaccurate than that Subway video that has over 1 million hits or that "Cincinnati: The City That Doesn't Go Anywhere" dude. 

Was walking on Sixth Street today and Terrace Plaza looks terrible. One can only imagine what a visitor to Cincinnati would think

Edited April 25, 20214 yr by thebillshark

1 hour ago, thebillshark said:

Was walking on Sixth Street today and Terrace Plaza looks terrible. One can only imagine what a visitor to Cincinnati would think

There’s been plans to renovate it but last time I I remember there was a lawsuit over who actually owned it or something similar to that. I’d love to see it land some historic tax credits. 

Historic label could kill plans for Terrace Plaza redevelopment

By Tom Demeropolis  –  Senior staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

For five years, Tony Birkla has worked to bring new life to the former Terrace Plaza Hotel in downtown Cincinnati. Now, an effort to give the building local historic landmark designation could squash those redevelopment plans.

 

The Cincinnati Preservation Association submitted a historic designation application for the building at 15 W. Sixth St. in February. The item is scheduled to go before the Cincinnati Historic Conservation Board on March 28.

 

Birkla, owner of Birkla Investment Group, is still interested in redeveloping the 600,000-square-foot building, but to say giving the building historic designation would be “harmful would be an understatement,” he said.

 

MORE

14 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Historic label could kill plans for Terrace Plaza redevelopment

By Tom Demeropolis  –  Senior staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

For five years, Tony Birkla has worked to bring new life to the former Terrace Plaza Hotel in downtown Cincinnati. Now, an effort to give the building local historic landmark designation could squash those redevelopment plans.

 

The Cincinnati Preservation Association submitted a historic designation application for the building at 15 W. Sixth St. in February. The item is scheduled to go before the Cincinnati Historic Conservation Board on March 28.

 

Birkla, owner of Birkla Investment Group, is still interested in redeveloping the 600,000-square-foot building, but to say giving the building historic designation would be “harmful would be an understatement,” he said.

 

MORE

 

I believe the developer can appeal the historic designation restrictions on a case by case basis correct? I get that the developer is going to need to add windows to the exterior to make it viable for use, and the historic designation would prevent most modifications to the façade. Maybe there's a way to have the HCB pre-emptively allow them to add windows in order to secure financing for the purchase. 

1 minute ago, RealAdamP said:

 

I get that the developer is going to need to add windows to the exterior to make it viable for use, and the historic designation would prevent most modifications to the façade.

With a $3.3 Billion dollar valuation for Griid as they joined the NYSE and them being based in Cincinnati and expanding their blockchain mining I bet they need lots of server room space... like 6 floors of windowless space in downtown maybe? Huge opportunity for branding, downtown presence and name recognition? Cincinnati already has a central chilled waterline company in downtown for cooling so not as much need to create openings in the walls and a steady rent on the lower floors would allow for the upper portion to be redeveloped as hotel/residential again. 

 

14 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

With a $3.3 Billion dollar valuation for Griid as they joined the NYSE and them being based in Cincinnati and expanding their blockchain mining I bet they need lots of server room space... like 6 floors of windowless space in downtown maybe? Huge opportunity for branding, downtown presence and name recognition? Cincinnati already has a central chilled waterline company in downtown for cooling so not as much need to create openings in the walls and a steady rent on the lower floors would allow for the upper portion to be redeveloped as hotel/residential again. 

 

I thought about if those existing windowless floors could be used for a data center, but I don't know if they'd be able to make it work when there's the CyrusOne data center just down the road that's already setup for it. 

 

The two biggest constraints that I know of for mining operations is having enough airflow/cooling and electrical supply. I think the chilled water loop would handle it fine, but the electrical service might not be able to handle it without some decent amount of rework on Duke's side. There's also the issue of where to put the generators and UPS that they'd require for 24/7 operation.

To be fair, I know NOTHING about data mining. I just wanted to point out that "punching windows in the base" isn't the only solution to successful redevelopment if the developer is more creative with tenant type. 

15 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

To be fair, I know NOTHING about data mining. I just wanted to point out that "punching windows in the base" isn't the only solution to successful redevelopment if the developer is more creative with tenant type. 

 

The ideal location and building for mining operations is rows of shed buildings, think like a horse stable just way longer, and near a transmission line and distribution transformer away from any people since the fans drone so much. They also fit snuggly in disused industrial locations, ideally one that needed a ton of power like steel mills.

Historic Conservation Board votes on making Terrace Plaza building a landmark

 

The former Terrace Plaza Hotel, Cincinnati’s most prominent Modernist building, should be landmarked by the City Council, the city’s Historic Conservation Board recommended for the second time Monday in a 5-1 vote.

 

The final decision will be made by the Cincinnati City Council after the city’s planning commission hears the case. There is no timetable for that decision.

 

The board’s vote was the same as a 2019 hearing on the Terrace Plaza at 15 W. Sixth St., in which then-Councilman David Mann submitted a historic designation request. Mann later paused the application and it was never taken up again during the remainder of his City Council term. Only board member Thomas Sundermann voted “no,” the same vote he cast three years ago.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/28/historic-conservation-board-votes-on-making-terrac.html

 

 

City Council voted against historic landmark status.