Upon reflection of "foruming" for eleven years on SkyscraperPage along with various other websites, I've come to an unscientific conclusion that Ohio probably has the worst ex-pats/"quitters" (;)) I've ever seen.  Folks on SSP and here know exactly who I'm talking about who come from this state, move to another state, and trash Ohio like they know it (even though they haven't lived here in years).  Sure, other states (Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc) can say that but not to the degree this state has seen.  At least Michigan has the hand-thing and Pennsylvania can just hide behind New York's sprawl.  Plus, both of those states have wonderful marketing departments while this state puts...Great Wolf Lodge...as an attraction.

 

This, on top of the fact that the entertainment industry isn't helping in their promotion of the state.  There are countless "celebrities" from Ohio that you'd NEVER know were from here because they NEVER mention it.  Think about it.  The only people off the top of my head that are "true" Ohio boosters are Nick Lachey, Bow Wow, and Drew Carey!  D-list celebrities!  Why isn't Halle promoting the state?  Carmen?  Sarah Jessica Parker?  Ted Turner?  Spielberg?  Clooney (he lived in Indian Hill for Christ sakes)?  Katie Holmes? Martin Sheen? ANY Sheen? The countless musicians this state produced? Even Paul Newman left!  Hell, I'll take Hugh Downs!  Though I despise Matthew McConahaughaghay or whatever his name is, at least he is always positive and representing Texas.  I would kill to have someone like that for this state.

 

Now the ex-pat thing isn't obviously true for UrbanOhio as we have some wonderful ex-pat forumers that are always interested in Ohio in a positive, respectful way.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be on UrbanOhio but start their own site "OhioSucks.com"

 

My question to you folks is this: Why?  Perhaps it's because they are all brainwashed via the media to believe the state sucks and thus stuck in a constant negative zone from age 8?  Maybe it's because they are mostly from boring suburbs and rag on the city since they know nothing about it and leave for "greener pastures" only to diss it as a running joke with their friends?  Or perhaps it's because there are so many different "Ohio's" within this state, there's no state unity and therefore a lack of pride?  I have no idea.

 

But what I CAN say folks is that I've traveled four continents, all fifty states, and a majority of the Canadian provinces to know that this state doesn't "suck" and we take so many things for granted here.  We have so many major cities, mid-sized cities, and small towns, we really don't know what to do with them all!  A Chillicothe in Ohio may be deemed as "bumf#ck" by Ohioans but put it in Wyoming or Illinois and it's a Cheyenne or a Galena.  Sure, we have our issues all over the state but my suggestion is that next time you hear an ex-pat "diss" Ohio, give them a good ole' fashion ColDay b!tchslap!

I think Ohio suffers from a lack of a singular "identity," which ironically is a function of its strengths: its economic and geographic diversity and central location. Pennsylvania, by many accounts is as--if not more--diverse with its industrialized north and west, its Appalachian south and its east coast east, but each of these regions has such a strong identity that expats will self-identify by the area of the state as opposed to Pennsylvania in general. But back to Ohio...

 

I think, in the absence of the strong identity, Ohio is subject to a generic, almost provincial, condition of Midwesternism (I know Columbus suffers from this). It's not much to identify with, and once you leave it, I imagine it's very easy to leave behind.

How many ex-pats from major Ohio cities even identify themselves as being from "Ohio", rather than as being from Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, etc.?

 

I grew up in Northern Kentucky just outside of Cincy, and I've always identified myself as being from Cincinnati. The fact that Cincinnati happens to be located within the state of Ohio has very little bearing on my identity as a Cincy-area native. Aside from changing planes once in Columbus and passing through Cleveland a few times between Chicago and the east coast, I've never even spent much time in Ohio outside of the Cincinnati area.

I think it has more to do with the psychology than actually experience.

 

People like to bash the city/state they moved from. It's reassuring.

 

People also like to "put down" a city they they're visiting, and inflate the overall impression of the city they're currently residing in - while visiting another city.

 

We want to know we're right in the decisions we made. On a much smaller scale, it's like buying an Accord when you were once torn between buying the Accord or Camry. After going with the Accord, people will look for reviews or ratings that makes the Accord a better choice. So, if two cities were the options (instead of vehicles) you'll go with crime ratings, nightlife, schools, economy, maybe its Downtown, etc ...

I'm a Michigan Ex-pat and so are a lot of my friends (obviously since it doesn't seem there are many left up there) but there isn't a person that left up there that wouldn't go back if they could. I'd say that at least 95% of the people i know from there love it and if they could find a job they'd be back.

 

I do know that Martin Sheen used a UD mug on The West Wing a bit.

 

I know Jeff Daniels is a huge Michigan booster and is in a lot of the economic development commercials for the state.

 

Does Ohio struggle because of the fight between the major cities for dominance?

 

Does Ohio struggle because of the fight between the major cities for dominance?

 

I think so. When you have so many metros of 1-2.4 million people so close together, each one seems less special. Cincinnati is percieved as very similar to Pitt; Columbus similar to Indy, etc. It's like how Baltimore is so underrated on the east coast. There's so many great east coast cities and even though it's a great city, it's not Philly, NYC, D.C or Boston but if it were in the middle of nowhere-Nevada people would be like WOW! Baltimore is an urban oasis! ..and the locals would take so much pride in it.

Well that depends on what part of Ohio. Columbus' job market is usually fine and Cincinnati's is usually stable but if you ask me, ex-pats from Cincinnati have a LOT of reasons to stay attached to the city. Cincinnati really has a culture all of it's own. The food, the events/traditions, the uniqueness of the neighborhoods. Cincinnati is really distinct whereas Columbus-as great as it is, is just a microcosm of everything mainstream.

I'm a Michigan Ex-pat and so are a lot of my friends (obviously since it doesn't seem there are many left up there) but there isn't a person that left up there that wouldn't go back if they could. I'd say that at least 95% of the people i know from there love it and if they could find a job they'd be back.

...

 

I concur.

I think much of Ohio’s identity crisis comes from the fact that although it has many medium-sized big cities, there is no one big, big one, like Chicago, which is a center of much national attention (and not only due to Oprah! lol). Let’s face it, if you take Chicago out of Illinois, what’s left? Whereas if you remove one of Ohio’s big “C” cities, you still have two others. Geographically-challenged New Yorkers (which includes just about all of them) think Ohio is vast farmland, despite knowing that major league teams exist there, and among some of the more culturally aware, top notch arts institutions; although I occasionally encounter East Coast people who have traveled to Ohio and they report being pleasantly surprised about how much they ended up liking the state and how much it had to offer. Even during the last campaign, a New York Times reporter wrote a piece (I tried finding it, but alas no success yet) on the political and cultural diversity of Ohio--how it's actually five different "states"--seemingly surprised by such a finding! The media on either coast perpetuates stereotypes about "flyover" country that are hard to debunk. I think the ultimate insult to Ohio is when someone from New Jersey (or Staten Island) starts casting stones :wtf:; I mean, have you ever been to those places??

I agree with every post so far.  I would add that Ohio is fashionable to bash, in a way that just never happened to non-Detroit Michigan.  I don't know exactly how it began, but I would attribute a lot of it to 60s-70s anti-Cleveland humor that was never effectively addressed.  If people had instead done that to Texas, the Texans would have marched across state lines and started randomly punching people in the face.  Not us.  We meekly laugh as if we're in on it, then sidle away.  When steel and automotive took a dive in the early 80s, that's probably what extended the scorn to the rest of Ohio.  Suddenly, other states had a bunch of angry Ohioans moving in.  Their tales of woe established Ohio as backward and hopeless.

I'm a Michigan Ex-pat and so are a lot of my friends (obviously since it doesn't seem there are many left up there) but there isn't a person that left up there that wouldn't go back if they could. I'd say that at least 95% of the people i know from there love it and if they could find a job they'd be back.

...

 

I concur.

 

Which brings back to my point of "Does Ohio have the worst ex-pats."  It's true I find many Michiganders proud of their state (even the stupid little hand thing) and would go back if it weren't for the economy.  Hell, there's even intrastate pride between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia supporting each other (and in turn, bashing Harrisburg).  I generally won't find that with ex-pats and Ohio.  Most ex-pats I meet are like "I'll never go back to Ohio!"  "Ohio?  It's cold, old, and boring!  I love Raleigh!"

 

Re: celebrities as prime examples.  Halle Berry owned a mansion in Wisconsin for Christ sakes (marriage with Milwaukee-native Eric Benet).  She could've easily owned a condo in Lakewood, invested in downtown Cleveland, or at least set up shop in Bay Village...but she chose Milwaukee.  Subtle stories like that is the reason I bring up this topic.

I agree with every post so far. I would add that Ohio is fashionable to bash, in a way that just never happened to non-Detroit Michigan. I don't know exactly how it began, but I would attribute a lot of it to 60s-70s anti-Cleveland humor that was never effectively addressed. If people had instead done that to Texas, the Texans would have marched across state lines and started randomly punching people in the face. Not us. We meekly laugh as if we're in on it, then sidle away...

 

It's the polite midwesterner in you (Ohioans). When someone bags on Detroit I always push back. This is a defining difference between Detroit and Columbus; good or bad, Detroiters will tell you what they think of you, whereas Columbusites can be polite to the point of being rude.

No and in my experience it is the complete opposite of what is being stated above.

 

By the way, Drew Carey still owns a house in Cleveland and is often here.  I could give you many more examples (both celebs and us common folk).  Simply disagree with the general tone of this thread.

I agree with some of the main points of the posts so far, however in my experience of living out of state (5.5 years in Dallas, TX) and travelling out of state, most of the people I met from Ohio living elsewhere had fond opinions/memories of Ohio.  Most people would get excited when I would tell them I was from Cleveland and we'd end up talking about things we enjoyed about Ohio...and frequently discuss how we'd like to go back (which I did 3 years ago). 

 

I realize there may not be many famous national cheerleaders for Ohio, but in terms of general public ex-pats I don't think the perception is poor.  Honestly, it wasn't until I moved back to Ohio that I encountered the pessimistic attitude from Ohioans.

 

 

I agree with every post so far. I would add that Ohio is fashionable to bash, in a way that just never happened to non-Detroit Michigan. I don't know exactly how it began, but I would attribute a lot of it to 60s-70s anti-Cleveland humor that was never effectively addressed. If people had instead done that to Texas, the Texans would have marched across state lines and started randomly punching people in the face. Not us. We meekly laugh as if we're in on it, then sidle away...

 

It's the polite midwesterner in you (Ohioans). When someone bags on Detroit I always push back. This is a defining difference between Detroit and Columbus; good or bad, Detroiters will tell you what they think of you, whereas Columbusites can be polite to the point of being rude.

 

I don't know about that.  A Dayton person will snap your head off real quick and we all know how boisterous/defending Cincinnatians and Clevelanders are.  Even Toledoans.  Columbus is probably the most lax attitude in the state.

But will a person from Cinci or Cleveland or even Dayton defend their home to an outsider? I'd draw a parallel between Dayton and Toledo and Detroit based on industrial working class edginess, which is completely absent in Columbus. Take away the whole OSU thing and Columbus's attitude is lax to the point of being catatonic.

Especially an outsider.  Now, the Cincinnati, Cleveland, or Dayton person may rag on their own city to each other (re: here at UrbanOhio) but if somebody else from somewhere else speaks ill, you better watch out.  Perhaps it's the blue-collar nature of it?

 

And to be honest, Detroiters are some of the nicest people in the world (especially the City of Detroit).

^Detroiters ARE nice, but only because they don't make a big deal out of trying to be nice (or not appear rude). But back to the expat thing, take the hypersensitive Cinci vs. Cleveland dynamic out of the equation and I'll bet you'll see a Cincinnatian or Clevelander let a general slight against the state of Ohio stand. I mean, look at some of the problem people in the north or south of the state have rooting for OSU because it's in Columbus. The lack of intrastate cohesion is what leaves the whole state vulnerable in an interstate context. An Ohioan will defend his CITY long before they'll defend his whole STATE.

That's really what I'm getting at.  Cincinnati, Dayton, and Cleveland will defend their home (meaning, the city of...) but they'll bash Ohio all day long.  And that leads to, as you say, a lack of intrastate cohesion unfortunately.  Kind of like a row of houses on a street that don't care about the neighborhood, just their house.

^Detroiters ARE nice, but only because they don't make a big deal out of trying to be nice (or not appear rude). But back to the expat thing, take the hypersensitive Cinci vs. Cleveland dynamic out of the equation and I'll bet you'll see a Cincinnatian or Clevelander let a general slight against the state of Ohio stand. I mean, look at some of the problem people in the north or south of the state have rooting for OSU because it's in Columbus. The lack of intrastate cohesion is what leaves the whole state vulnerable in an interstate context. An Ohioan will defend his CITY long before they'll defend his whole STATE.

 

actually, not all ex-Detroiters are so enamored of their city. I worked with a woman a few years ago from Hamtramck who basically had nothing nice to say about the area, and was just as happy to get out. She was an older person (even older than me!) who had left Detroit in the late 60's (or early 70's) but had lived there through college--at Wayne State. So I don't think it's so easy to generalize.

Having lived in Hamtramck for 10 years I can say that there are a lot of very pissed off second generation Poles there angry at life because of all those foreigners who moved to their city. That said, those foreigners are some of the nicest, hardest-working people I've ever known.

well, most states have something that they're proud of. In Michigan people are proud of Detroit (toughness, grit, determination, blue collar, etc), they're proud of the lakes and all the wildlife and outdoors stuff that there is to do, on the west side of the state they're proud of being Dutch (i think).

 

Here in Ohio it seems that people are defined by their cities.  i don't know why that is, but that's what i've seen.  And there are great things about the cities that people don't know about until they're there, so it's unlikely that people from the East Coast would ever know about them.  Maybe Ohio does have the worst Ex-pats because no one considers themselves an Ohioan.

I agree and disagree with many of the points already made.  Here's what I will add:

 

I lived in NC for 7 years and really did not hear that much, good or bad, when I told people where I was from.  It was when I moved back that people here constantly questioned my choice - "why in the world did you come back" comments were common.

 

I do believe there is too much in-fighting between the 3 major cities and that creates a problem.  People from Cleveland sometimes view Cincinnati as middle-america boring, appalachia, whatever you want to call it, and that C-Bus is irrelevant outside of being the state capital and home of the Buckeyes.  Many people from Cincy and C-Bus think Cleveland is nothing but ghettos and abandoned factories - just another Detroit.  Everybody rags on Dayton, Youngstown and Toledo.

 

Ohioans will unite to take on outside criticism.  But here is the problem as I see it.  We will only unite if the criticism is lobbied at Ohio as a whole.  If someone from another state picks on Cleveland, Cincinatti will not come to its aid.  Rather, they will either join in or say nothing at all.  In fact, I think some from C-Bus and Cincy actually get a kick out of outsiders making derogatory comments about Cleveland and vice versa (including a lot of forumers here).

 

There is simply too much competition between the cities.  We need to embrace that we are one of four states with 3 metro areas in the top 40 - Florida, Texas and California being the others.  We need to encourage each other's growth and prosperity, not wish against it.

Cincinatti

 

That'll be quite enough of that. Don't let this happen again  :shoot:

Cincinatti

 

That'll be quite enough of that. Don't let this happen again :shoot:

 

You're on Urban Ohio .... learn to spell it! ;)

When a Cincinnatian (mainly suburban Cincinnatian) is living in Cincinnati, they're quick to criticize their own city ...

 

 

When the Washington Post wrote this whole article about Cincinnati Chili, every native that lives in D.C. now came out of the woodwork ... "I'm from Cincy... I miss it ... Oh you're from Cincy? Yeah, what part? ... I want to go back and visit... I know how to make this chili ... Cincinnati is a great city" ...

 

The responses were one after another. Boosterism at its best.

 

How does one explain this type of behavior ... it's very awkward.

And for an unscientific case for proving my point... http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=170283

Everyone who leaves Ohio seems to b#tch about the weather. The crazy thing is that are plenty of states without such negative attitudes that have worse weather than Ohio (Michigan, the whole Upper Midwest). For God's sake, is there anything good about Chicago's weather?

 

Ohioans have to deal just miserable enough winters to depress people, but not so miserable that it becomes a badge of courage like in Western NY or Michigan or Minnesota and hot, humid, gross summers but again not so oppressive that life has adjusted to it like completely a/c'd Texas or the slow pace of New Orleans or the 'dry' heat of Phoenix. I think Ohio's weather seems to ideal to annoy people rather than trigger fond thoughts. It also hurts our tourism since we lack the escape potential from the heat as northern Michigan can, but our winters are too unpredictable to really have a truly cold weather culture. Ohioans love our falls and springs but they too are unpredictable, which is why I think so many Ohioans find the Upper South to be a draw. They give up the winter for a longer hotter summer but a longer fall and spring. 

Having lived a good portion of my life in Michigan I can tell you that I loved the area I grew up in which was Grand Rapids on the west side of the state. The entire Lake Michigan shoreline is absolutely amazing. However, the farther east I got when traveling, the less and less I liked the state. Aside from whats left of its older building stock, Detroit does absolutely nothing for me....

 

I think we all have a soft spot for where we grew up. Mine is right behind my frontal lobe, just east of the hypothalamus.

I would die in the South. I hate heat and humidity.

Having lived a good portion of my life in Michigan I can tell you that I loved the area I grew up in which was Grand Rapids on the west side of the state. The entire Lake Michigan shoreline is absolutely amazing. However, the farther east I got when traveling, the less and less I liked the state. Aside from whats left of its older building stock, Detroit does absolutely nothing for me....

I think we all have a soft spot for where we grew up. Mine is right behind my frontal lobe, just east of the hypothalamus.

 

Yeah, i think that that's true, that we all have a soft spot...and it's true that being in Ohio most people here will be more sensitive to the comments that are made about Ohio whether they're by Ohio ex-pats or not.  I know that people on the west side of Michigan have little love for the east side and people from the east side thing that westsiders are all a bunch of Dutch hicks (and they'd be right).  Another thing about Michigan ex-pats...if they're from the west side of the state (specifically Kalamazoo and the surrounding area) they're much more drawn to Chicago than Detroit.

 

I don't think that happens in Ohio.

 

 

 

Another thing about Michigan ex-pats...if they're from the west side of the state (specifically Kalamazoo and the surrounding area) they're much more drawn to Chicago than Detroit.

 

I don't think that happens in Ohio.

 

I disagree.  Toledo has a strong connection with Detroit, as does Youngstown with Pittsburgh... mostly related to sports though.

^ So true.

I disagree. Toledo has a strong connection with Detroit, as does Youngstown with Pittsburgh... mostly related to sports though.

I can see that.

On a similar note, I know many folks in Windsor, ON will root for the Wings over the Leafs. In fact, a few of my friends from there who moved to Toronto would wear their Red Wings jerseys to work and around town game day. Brave souls those guys.

Isn't that how it is in Hamilton, ON? so many fans of Buffalo there?

 

Does anyone really care what Youngstown thinks?

Ohioans have to deal just miserable enough winters to depress people

 

The Dayton Gloom.

 

.

But I agree with the thread parents' premise.  I've noticed it a lot on the Dayton Daily News comments boards from expat Daytonians who trash their former home with a disturbing glee.  Skyscraperpage is a bit more sophisticated in its trash talk....yet, even I (not a big fan of Ohio in general and Dayton in particular) felt the need to defend the state from some of the negatives.

 

You don't see that that much from former Kentuckians, whether from Lexington, Louisville, or out in the state. And of course ex-Chicagoans are quite proud of being from there.

 

 

 

 

I think Toledo's continued stability as a city points to the fact that it isn't all about economics. If a city manages to be workable community then folks will make sacrifices to stay apart of that community. Detroit boomed too much after WWI and the mass numbers of people that flowed in overwhelmed the historic community. The Russian industrial boomtowns had similar problems with the added bonus of a totalitarian state. Economics can crack apart the community but it doesn't always.

I think Toledo's continued stability as a city points to the fact that it isn't all about economics. If a city manages to be workable community then folks will make sacrifices to stay apart of that community. Detroit boomed too much after WWI and the mass numbers of people that flowed in overwhelmed the historic community. The Russian industrial boomtowns had similar problems with the added bonus of a totalitarian state. Economics can crack apart the community but it doesn't always.

but what makes Toledo a more viable community than Detroit? i know that a huge issue in Detroit was the number of people from the south that moved up to take the jobs in the plants that required little education during and following the war.  With them came the racial tension that makes the Detroit area one of the most segregated communities in the country, even today.

 

How did the Ohio communities avoid this? (i guess my experience is more Cincinnati and Toledo) Did white flight occur here to some extent?

 

One thing i've noticed about Cincinnati ex-pats...they've brought cornhole around the country. seems like people i talk to on both coasts now know it and play. (although we're all a little more squeamish on the name)

One thing i've noticed about Cincinnati ex-pats...they've brought cornhole around the country. seems like people i talk to on both coasts now know it and play. (although we're all a little more squeamish on the name)

 

And for that they should be shamed.

One thing i've noticed about Cincinnati ex-pats...they've brought cornhole around the country. seems like people i talk to on both coasts now know it and play. (although we're all a little more squeamish on the name)

 

And for that they should be shamed.

 

i'm for anything that allows you to "compete" and drink at the same time.

 

Another thing about Michigan ex-pats...if they're from the west side of the state (specifically Kalamazoo and the surrounding area) they're much more drawn to Chicago than Detroit.

 

I don't think that happens in Ohio.

 

I disagree.  Toledo has a strong connection with Detroit, as does Youngstown with Pittsburgh... mostly related to sports though.

Youngstown also has a strong connection with Cleveland. The sports connection used to be about 50/50 but these days I would say it is about 60/40 leaning towards Pittsburgh. This can be contributed the success of Pittsburgh's sports teams and the Browns leaving Cleveland.

 

I totally agree with Cincinnatus; the negativity from ex-pats is purely psychological. Trashing where they come from reassures them that the place they live now is better, even if it is not.

Re: Toledo versus Detroit. All Ohio cities had the same in-migration of white and black Southerners from the 20s onward, but in all those cities (save maybe Cleveland and Dayton) the new populations never completely overwhelmed the capacity of the city to integrate them into the local culture. Detroit was the massive boomtown that didn't have time to integrate the new immigrants from Europe only to be overwhelmed by the Southern migration. I think the extreme levels of specialization in the auto industry meant the whole city became tied to one culture and the nature of that industry and its unions set the stage for a monumental failure.

 

Even though Toledo was a major auto town, it had other things (as did Detroit but autos became so big) and the crushing experience during the Depression had an effect on the town's psyche. Cincinnati is a river town with a culture that moves at the pace of the big slow flowing river.

One thing i've noticed about Cincinnati ex-pats...they've brought cornhole around the country. seems like people i talk to on both coasts now know it and play. (although we're all a little more squeamish on the name)

 

And for that they should be shamed.

 

i'm for anything that allows you to "compete" and drink at the same time.

 

I'm happy enough with just "drink."

that was an interesting ssp thread. it wasnt all totally just about the weather.

 

one valid observation that struck me was that ohio is too divided and spread out among small and medium size towns and cities and so the big cities are not very vibrant. there is no atlanta, denver or detroit, etc. now i happen to think that ohio's urban/suburban/rural diversity is in sum a big strength, but it is true that the tradeoff is a loss of some visual vibrancy. that is particularly true in a place like cleveland, where many people still remember when it was double its current population. anyway that was an interesting gripe.

 

 

 

 

I disagree.  Toledo has a strong connection with Detroit, as does Youngstown with Pittsburgh... mostly related to sports though.

 

And organized crime.....

Really Toledo only has lost 1/3 of it's 1950's population? That is really impressive given the size of household changes. I will be the first to admit that I don't know enough about Toledo.

 

I just think that people from Ohio, especially the Gen X'ers and younger suffer from hearing about how good the economy used to be in the state up until the 70's. At least in NEO that is. I remember my parents talking about how when they graduated high school if you didn't want to go to college, you could go get a job at a mill or factory with no problem at all and be able to live on that. Especially around Mill towns such as Youngstown, where they are from. Almost all that we have heard growing up the job losses and closings. I believe that we have hit bottom on that for the most part and now are back on the upswing but old opinions die hard especially when a lot of our growth is in small companies that are hidden from the public eye.

 

 

 

 

 

Cincy is even rougher, we look back to the 1850s as the glory days.