A knee jerk fed ex response.  Look at the real problem, if you're going get rid of people, start with yourself.  It's got to be a top to bottom review!

---

 

Hagan touts cut in elected offices

He'd consolidate county departments

Monday, May 12, 2008

Joe Guillen

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Cuyahoga County will have six fewer elected officials -- and will consolidate duplicated jobs to reduce spending -- if Commissioner Tim Hagan gets his way.

 

Hagan, who has favored reforming county government, said he is ready to make another push because the current structure is outdated. He said the county's shrinking population and declining government revenue demand a change.

 

More at

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1210581027265890.xml&coll=2

Can you all help a political newbie (as far as Cleveland and Cuyahoga County is concerned -- okay, as far as all politics are concerned) out here?  Hagan always seemed like a good guy.  Is he just as bad as the others, or is he the black sheep in the Comissioner family?

Honestly, I think PLJ is the only commish with sense.  Hagan is a whipping boy.  Dimora is just a fat ass.

Hagan is a whipping boy.

 

Well, at least he's married to a starship captain. :)

 

 

 

 

Thanks. :)

A knee jerk fed ex response.  Look at the real problem, if you're going get rid of people, start with yourself.  It's got to be a top to bottom review!

---

 

Hagan touts cut in elected offices

He'd consolidate county departments

Monday, May 12, 2008

Joe Guillen

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Cuyahoga County will have six fewer elected officials -- and will consolidate duplicated jobs to reduce spending -- if Commissioner Tim Hagan gets his way.

 

Hagan, who has favored reforming county government, said he is ready to make another push because the current structure is outdated. He said the county's shrinking population and declining government revenue demand a change.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1210581027265890.xml&coll=2

 

Still, there are so many elected offices that should not be elected. Who really knows who would make a good coroner or engineer??  We are lucky to have a very good engineer right now, but I have no clue whatsoever if the coroner is doing a good job. 

 

On the other hand, allowing all these people to be appointed also has some great risks.

Interesting article by the PD.. There's a link to the audio in that story.  Reading the article then listening to Dimora talk seem almost totally separate. The reporter is definitely caught up in trying to "catch" Dimora.  The audio starts really slow but then Dimora picks up the pace.  Interesting how Dimora screams he's not running for Commissioner again but it doesn't appear in the story. 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/05/dimora_against_county_reform_s.html

 

Dimora against county reform; says GOP and Plain Dealer in league against Democrats

Posted by Joe Guillen May 20, 2008 20:02PM

Categories: News Impact

Previous story

 

• Dimora criticizes Plain Dealer reporters for asking about court(sic) employee.

Cuyahoga County Commissioner Jimmy Dimora on Tuesday blasted a plan to reform local government, even saying the idea -- proposed by a fellow commissioner -- exposes a plot to dismantle the local Democratic Party that he chairs.

CHOPPED

Tim Hagan:  Republican mole.  Who woulda thought?

 

Every time I see DiMora's "official" picture in the paper, I wonder how he could be smiling in light of the Reagan Administration's latest proposals.  Of course, a current one would contain more chins than the San Francisco telephone directory....

Interesting how Dimora screams he's not running for Commissioner again but it doesn't appear in the story. 

 

I interpreted what he said as meaning that he's not governing with an eye on getting reelected, not that he wasn't actually going to run for reelection (we should all be so lucky).

I did a search and surprisingly could not find a thread on this topic.  Can anyone help me to understand what the issues are here?  I feel like I have picked up bits and pieces here and there such as the main proponents for reform of the county government are the republicans and African Americans are against reform as it would involve redistricting which would potentially lessen the impact of their votes. 

 

I will say this, I am a true and true democrat and I personally don't see any time in the near future that the county will be run by republicans as cuyahoga county is a pretty strong democrat county.  But aren't our democratic leaders in this county making us look bad (i.e. McFaul, Earle Turner (is he an elected democrat?), the commissioners with the "bungling" of the med mart, not to mention the criminal investigation, etc.)?

 

Many of our democratic leaders are coming out against the reform (Jackson, Fudge, etc.).  So I guess my question is, why should I be against reforming the county government?

I am not as well versed as others here on OU of the sins of Cuyahoga County but I am for a reform of some sort. There are too many fiefdoms in the county governmemnt that really don't answer to anyone especially the citizens, this has led to the rampant corruption and waste. I really don't think that it really is a Democratic or Republican issue. The real issue is that the current political machine has been in power too long and they felt they didn't have to answer to anyone because there has been nobody locally seriously challenging for power.

 

I have not developed an opinion yet about the proposal floating around about a single elected county executive and a elected council. 

Cuyahoga County reform backers looking for money

by Mark Naymik

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 4:00 PM

 

The group of public officials and civic leaders behind the effort to restructure Cuyahoga County government are scrambling to raise money.

 

The group, which includes county prosecutor Bill Mason and Parma Heights Mayor Martin Zanotti, has raised just $20,000 as of Tuesday. The group is soliciting from civic leaders another $35,000 by Friday and an additional $50,000 by early July. It hopes to raise at least $100,000 to collect the 45,000 voter signatures needed by mid July to get the reform plan on the ballot.

 

More at

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2009/06/cuyahoga_county_reform_backers.html

 

I am not as well versed as others here on OU of the sins of Cuyahoga County but I am for a reform of some sort. There are too many fiefdoms in the county governmemnt that really don't answer to anyone especially the citizens, this has led to the rampant corruption and waste. I really don't think that it really is a Democratic or Republican issue. The real issue is that the current political machine has been in power too long and they felt they didn't have to answer to anyone because there has been nobody locally seriously challenging for power.

 

I have not developed an opinion yet about the proposal floating around about a single elected county executive and a elected council.

 

I agree with your sentiments. 

 

I believe that democracy requires participation, or money will talk louder than We The People.  The current corruption scandal probably went on for as long as it did because not enough people thought they could make a difference, didn't vote, didn't pay attention to commissioners' and committee meetings, etc.  How do we get people to be engaged in their governance?

 

Someone once said that any time you have a representative who represents more than about 5,000 people, the people in that district lose the feeling that they have an advocate for THEM, someone that they can personally talk to who will go to bat for them and their problems.  Can anyone cite any research along this line to back that sort of thing up?

 

Regardless of what that number is, I think that is the kind of feeling that will make people want to hang on to THEIR government in Solon or Lakewood, etc.  How do we create a more efficient form of government in a metropolitan area like Cuyahoga County or greater Cleveland metro such that everyone will still "feel" that there is someone who will go to bat for them personally on an issue and also will encourage more citizens to be engaged in their government?  That seems to be a difficult challenge.

 

We could create a large legislative body with small-district "representatives" and former-city/suburb-type-area "senators" that works with an elected executive.  But paying all of those people could be expensive, and if it's too big does your voice really get heard?  And would there still be too much local-interest-only focus?

 

Or maybe there should be some things that should remain very local and other things that will be delegated to the larger region -- zoning, transportation, and economic development come to mind as regional issues.  What local issues would remain?  School maintenance?  Which streets get paved with the road budget provided by the regional government?  I'm really not sure how such a system would work.

 

Again, how do we create a more efficient form of government in a metropolitan area like Cuyahoga County or greater Cleveland metro such that everyone will still "feel" that there is someone who will go to bat for them personally on an issue and also will encourage more citizens to be engaged in their government?

I haven't found the thread (if it exists) about the proposal to elect a county legislature of sorts, along with the county executive and prosecutor. 

 

I'd change it to electing solely the legislature/council.  They select the executive, who has to have either a masters in public or business administration or at least four years service as a mayor or city manager for an entity larger than 5,000 population. 

 

Out of the suburbs in my pre-move area, the one that's best run is clearly Bedford, which has a city manager form of government. 

 

I'd also make a somewhat radical proposal.  Add two members to the county council.  They are elected by those who paid income and/or property tax in the county during the previous year, but do not live in the county.

The county is concerned that the change under Issue 6 will be super expensive to make.  I was told upwards of about half a million dollars.  That's in a time when the county is really struggling and making cuts all over. 

 

Positions that will go from elected to appointed will be paid double what they are now.  So that positions like the coroner and engineer will parallel what they are in other counties.  I was told that we can likely expect to pay an appointed coroner just short of $200k a year, as opposed to the current $80k or $90k.

 

Also, there's no space in the county administration building for council members to have their own offices.  Eleven councilmembers would share only two staffers.

 

I'm planning to vote no on Issues 5 and 6.  This needs to be more of a citizen-driven, grassroots effort whereby the people of this county have the opportunity to voice their opinions.  I feel like we should take the time to do this right instead of change for the sake of changing.

I'm planning to vote no on Issues 5 and 6.  This needs to be more of a citizen-driven, grassroots effort whereby the people of this county have the opportunity to voice their opinions.  I feel like we should take the time to do this right instead of change for the sake of changing.

 

I am very confused by 5/6.  I feel that the current system isn't that bad, just some of the people in it are.  CD is there any negative to voting down both of these proposals? 

^ If 5 and 6 both fail, it's back to the drawing board with reform. 

 

I have a feeling that 6 is going to pass, though.

Now that 6 has passed, who does everyone want to see run for county executive?

 

I am hoping for Chris Ronayne.  Any other ideas?

I'd was thinking PLJ, but Ronayne would be great.

 

My other thought is that I'm not happy that this new arrangement will inject more parochialism into our political process via a county ward system- I would have preferred at large councilpeople. 

 

Otherwise, I like it.

I would have voted no if I had a vote, but the "ward" system made sense vs at-large.  You can't have all the representatives coming from one city.  The outlying cities in the county need representation.

^too late now, but a mix of at large and ward reps is what I would have liked.

 

 

That's OK too.  And it's not too late, they can always modify it.

yeah this can definitely be tweaked over time... but I think it is a HUGE step in the right direction.

In my opinion, the true advantage to the new plan is a more spread out representation.

 

Otherwise, if people thought that they were 'kicking out the bums' with this plan, they will be highly surprised. I'm sure we'll see a lot of familiar faces come January 2011 when this is all in place. PLJ could be back. I can see William Denihan throwing his hat in the ring, since he has the experience and doesn't stink of corruption.

 

There will also be a salary issue. The sum of the present commissioners' salaries will be less than the sum of the Executive Board's salaries.

I could definitely see Ronayne running.  One of the reasons why he didn't run for mayor this time around was that his wife is expecting, and he wanted to spend time with her.  I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to run, and I would more than likely vote for him.

Today's PD editorial cartoon actually gave me a little chuckle:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2009/11/humpty_dumpty_had_a_great_fall.html

 

 

The way I viewed Issue 6 was a better system of checks and balances for the County.  The 3 commissioners simply had too much unchecked power/discretion.

For anyone who's interested, you can sign up to be part of the charter transition process here:

 

http://charter.cuyahogacounty.us/

 

I hope we have more than a few UOers that take part in the process.  There are quite a few creative, pro-urban, and most importantly, informed people on this board!

Here are the new county council districts:

http://www.boe.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_boe/en-US/CountyCouncilDistricts.pdf

 

Pretty ridiculously shaped, if you ask me.

Here are the new county council districts:

http://www.boe.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_boe/en-US/CountyCouncilDistricts.pdf

 

Pretty ridiculously shaped, if you ask me.

 

Why are Cleveland Hts and Shaker Hts in two different wards?

 

And that East side outer ring screams "keep the racially diverse suburbs away!"  and lets bolster them to gain voting power.

 

I dont like this one bit!

I've been really anxious to see this.  Not sure what to make of it yet... further consideration required.  It's really hard to tell if Shaker Square is with the heights or with the hood.  That's an awfully squggly border.

I've been really anxious to see this.  Not sure what to make of it yet... further consideration required.  It's really hard to tell if Shaker Square is with the heights or with the hood.  That's an awfully squggly border.

 

SS is in Ward 9, but that "hood" comment is uncalled for.  Many people wouldnt appreciate you calling their neighborhoods "hood".

People often call my neighborhood "hood," including the guy who panhandles me as soon as I walk out the door.  Besides, I think "hood" is a Latin term... I used to get offended about it myself, but what good does that really do? 

 

Federal election law may require majority-minority districts.  That means there will be majority-majority districts as well.  If you're the minority in your district, it is highly unlikely, by design, that you will ever be elected.  Still... I wish it weren't so blatant.  I was hoping for something more like pie pieces radiating from downtown.

Euclid and Beachwood in the same zone...they are kind of similar.  Kinda like a cheetah and a parakeet are similar

 

I also can't believe Cleveland Hts, Shaker Hts and Univeristy hts are in 3 districts!  Doesn't CH and UH share a school system, or is it just community services.

 

Either way, I think the people of the heights are going to have more seats at the table than every other community.  It will be a very Heights centered county government.

People often call my neighborhood "hood," including the guy who panhandles me as soon as I walk out the door.  Besides, I think "hood" is a Latin term...

 

:wtf:  ::)  :wtf:

^ Good point Punch, the overall heights representation is pretty darned good.  And consider that the entirety of ward 6, from Independence up through the 271 corridor, only gets one rep.  The urban west side, including Lakewood, gets two, compared to Parma's one.

 

Overall, my count is 6 predominantly urban wards vs. 5 predominantly suburban.  I had feared the oppposite.  So on those grounds alone, I guess I like the map.

Euclid and Beachwood in the same zone...they are kind of similar.  Kinda like a cheetah and a parakeet are similar

 

I also can't believe Cleveland Hts, Shaker Hts and Univeristy hts are in 3 districts!  Doesn't CH and UH share a school system, or is it just community services.

 

Either way, I think the people of the heights are going to have more seats at the table than every other community.  It will be a very Heights centered county government.

 

School districts, which is why I too thought that was odd.  But Univ. Hts, is much smaller (in population) than Shaker Hts. and Cleveland Hts.  Some people in S. Euclid attend CHUH schools.

^ Good point Punch, the overall heights representation is pretty darned good. And consider that the entirety of ward 6, from Independence up through the 271 corridor, only gets one rep. The urban west side, including Lakewood, gets two, compared to Parma's one.

 

Overall, my count is 6 predominantly urban wards vs. 5 predominantly suburban. I had feared the oppposite. So on those grounds alone, I guess I like the map.

 

Agreed.  The inner city along with the inner ring suburbs will have good representation according to this map.

It's been kind of fun reading about the various candidates throwing their hat in for the council seats or the county administrator position.  But lord help us if Michael Troy Watson gets many votes from District 11 10 [thanks 327] (East side of Cleveland, East Cleveland, Cleveland Ht.s).

 

From Cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/05/as_filing_deadline_looms_four_new_candidates_emerge_for_cuyahoga_county_council.html):

 

He blames a "vast Jewish conspiracy" for the loss of his law license, the loss of the radio program and a pile of financial judgments and liens against him over the last decade. Watson listed more than $2 million in liabilities when filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2004.

 

"I've stepped on the establishment's toes, and some of these toes happen to wear yarmulkes," said Watson, who hosts two programs on public-access television. "They've decided this guy is dangerous to the Jewish community. And they have tried to destroy me."

 

If elected, Watson said one of his top priorities is to arm residents. He said he is a certified gun trainer and would like to establish a county program that helps senior citizens buy guns.

 

I guess all you have to do to run is sign up, so should be no surprise it attracts a few nut cases.

I think that's District 10, and I don't think this guy has a chance there.  Or anywhere.

It's been kind of fun reading about the various candidates throwing their hat in for the council seats or the county administrator position.  But lord help us if Michael Troy Watson gets many votes from District 11 (East side of Cleveland, East Cleveland, Cleveland Ht.s).

 

From Cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/05/as_filing_deadline_looms_four_new_candidates_emerge_for_cuyahoga_county_council.html):

 

He blames a "vast Jewish conspiracy" for the loss of his law license, the loss of the radio program and a pile of financial judgments and liens against him over the last decade. Watson listed more than $2 million in liabilities when filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2004.

 

"I've stepped on the establishment's toes, and some of these toes happen to wear yarmulkes," said Watson, who hosts two programs on public-access television. "They've decided this guy is dangerous to the Jewish community. And they have tried to destroy me."

 

If elected, Watson said one of his top priorities is to arm residents. He said he is a certified gun trainer and would like to establish a county program that helps senior citizens buy guns.

 

I guess all you have to do to run is sign up, so should be no surprise it attracts a few nut cases.

 

From someone I know:

He put the "crazy" in "crazy".  Bad for business and for development.

 

I just found the cuyahoga county charter transition meetings on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/user/cuyahogacounty#g/a

scroll down to lower left corner and click on

County Charter Transition Playlist

Not the most exciting, but I did learn that the new council shall decide and approve the number of staff they feel they need.

The example given on the video I watched stated that if they determine they each need five staff and they themselves approve it - 55 new county employee positions are created.

I am sure there are other nuggets of information on these videos that can help us ask our candidates the right questions in deciding who we will vote for.

I'm digging this back out.  Had some family in town for the weekend and was telling them about the upcoming elections for County Exec & the different wards.  My uncle asked me if I thought it was really going to make a difference.  I think it will but it will take some time of course. 

 

I've had the chance to sit and listen to a few candidates speak and I think alot of these ward reps are going to be clueless.  It's going to take them awhile before they realize this is not about bringing jobs or whatever to their little representative region.  If it's going to work at all, it's going to be about creating real change, combining services, creating a system of policies for the entire region, instead of everyone having their own, which pits everyone against each other.

 

So having said all that, I'm still unsure if that will get accomplished and how long it might take.  Many years I'm sure, since alot of people will lose their power as the region becomes more collaborative and combines services. 

 

I'm just curious what everyone else thinks will be the outcome.  Of course corruption should be gone for the near future when the current clan is ousted.  One other thing, many of these races are going to be decided at the primary, especially those in the Cleveland limits, no Republican candidates stand a chance.  The primary is the day after Labor Day, so it's going to be a low turnout.

Can someone explain to me how the ward councilman and respective city mayors will interact on policy?

I've had the chance to sit and listen to a few candidates speak and I think alot of these ward reps are going to be clueless. It's going to take them awhile before they realize this is not about bringing jobs or whatever to their little representative region.   If it's going to work at all, it's going to be about creating real change, combining services, creating a system of policies for the entire region, instead of everyone having their own, which pits everyone against each other.

 

On the contrary, I'm almost certain that the council will end up being about the former, not the latter.  That would be alright if we were merging the County and it's municipalities, but that isn't going to happen.  All we've done is add an additional layer of parochialism to our regional decision making process.

X - I wouldn't be so quick to say "that isn't going to happen".  I've heard the topic discussed enough to know that everyone is aware of it.  10 yrs ago, nobody probably thought we'd throw out the current system and implement a new system.  The same system we're all talking about has been implemented with success in a dozen other cities, with great success.  All it would take is to create a referendum and get it on the ballot.  Once that happened, I think it's anyone's guess if it would pass.  Seems like you're against the new system though so I won't waste any more words on the possibilities.

 

Can someone explain to me how the ward councilman and respective city mayors will interact on policy?

 

The new county council (who serve PART TIME) is going to oversee a portion of the county budget which is basically discretionary income, or about 10% of the entire budget.  I'm sure there will be close collaboration between these new county council members and the respective city mayors/Cleveland city councilmen.  It seems to me that this county council is going to spend more time on policy issues like job training, economic development, finding savings through shared services, etc.

I agree gottaplan.  I have heard several candidates discuss the possibilities of at least some level of regionalism.  The new set up can be very effective... all depends on who ends up in office. 

Cuyahoga County executive hopeful Victor Voinovich urges officials to delay medical mart

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/08/cuyahoga_county_executive_hopeful_victor_voinovich_urges_officials_to_delay_medical_mart.html#incart_rh

Euclid and Beachwood in the same zone...they are kind of similar.  Kinda like a cheetah and a parakeet are similar

 

I also can't believe Cleveland Hts, Shaker Hts and Univeristy hts are in 3 districts!  Doesn't CH and UH share a school system, or is it just community services.

 

Either way, I think the people of the heights are going to have more seats at the table than every other community.  It will be a very Heights centered county government.

 

Unfortunately, yes, but I don't see how that's relevant.  Things like that are hardly ever (rightly so) taken in to consideration when it comes to electoral district on other levels (county, state, etc.).

^ Good point Punch, the overall heights representation is pretty darned good.  And consider that the entirety of ward 6, from Independence up through the 271 corridor, only gets one rep.  The urban west side, including Lakewood, gets two, compared to Parma's one.

 

Overall, my count is 6 predominantly urban wards vs. 5 predominantly suburban.  I had feared the oppposite.  So on those grounds alone, I guess I like the map.

 

I don't see how one small (University Heights) and one medium (Shaker Heights) suburb are going to be able to swing the elections of much larger districts.  Further, I don't know that it makes sense to assume that every resident in those cities is going to be voting for people with some sort of a nebulous "Heights-centric" viewpoint, whatever that even means.  Even if there is a "Heights area" conspiracy to dominate county-wide politics, it wouldn't work, because they would only have three seats (assuming everything else above is true, which it's not) on an 11 seat board.

Slightly different discussion, what's everyone's thoughts on Terri Hamilton Brown's chances in the primary?  I know a few people working on her campaign and they are working even harder since Ed Fitgerald got the party endorsement.  I don't know alot about either candidate but I've heard good things about what she did while at CMHA.  I think it's really going to come down to who can get their people to come out & vote.

 

By the way, I saw Ken Lanci today.  holy crap is he tan.