When the quality of your reporting can't attract readers attention you have to resort to exagerated and attention grabbing headlines.

 

I'm glad this project is still going to happen, I just hope they don't take my house to build a new road when Fairfield becomes un-drivable.

mmmmm surface parking

i love how they use acreage to make it more impressive than the banks...when the banks will probably be signifactly larger as far as density is concerned.  they probably include the marina in that figure.

 

i hope this project succeeds.  the more the merrier.

They called it a "metropolis" because it's a stupid play on words with Manhattan Harbour. It's just a lame journalism pun. They all do it, and there's no value judgment about the project being made. (Also, the headline rarely written by the author. It's usually done by an editor with minimal grasp of the story.)

 

Do you guys think that Manhattan Harbour will have a significant positive impact on property values in Dayton? Or will the project be too segregated to have a gentrifying effect on the neighboring property?

 

My general impression of Dayton is that it's extremely cheap and rundown. However it seems to lack elements of hardcore blight - in other words, simple cosmetic improvements could yield massive increases in value.

^ I think you hit the nail on the head. Dayton is generally in very bad shape, but I would still call it "working class" and actually mean it.

 

There will likely be significant opposition to the new residents as Daytonites are very insular (no bad Kentucky jokes please). But there is still a lot of decent housing stock, and Dayton, like all of the river cities, is very, very, very dense. I think Dayton can definitley be gentrified as long as they end up building the large amounts of retail and restaurants that they say they're going to. If it's just condo's and apartments, then probably not.

 

I can see Dayton reaching the point where Bellevue is at right now within ~10 years of Manhattan Harbour coming online.

i love how they use acreage to make it more impressive than the banks...when the banks will probably be signifactly larger as far as density is concerned.  they probably include the marina in that figure.

 

i hope this project succeeds.  the more the merrier.

 

As much as I love project density, I'm not sure that Manhattan Harbor needs it, whereas The Banks definitely does.  Dayton is far enough down the river that I think it's okay to have a few surface lots, etc, because the land demand is relatively low.  Plus, there are people who want a more surburban style life, and if we can give it to them near the urban core (in Dayton) instead of in ex-burbs like Union, so much the better.

 

Do you guys think that Manhattan Harbour will have a significant positive impact on property values in Dayton? Or will the project be too segregated to have a gentrifying effect on the neighboring property?

 

Assuming that the project happens as planned, I think it will help neighboring properties.  NOTL has done wonders for property values on the east end of Newport, despite failing to reach some measures of success.  As long as Manhattan Harbor is the kind of place people want to be near, it should help the neighborhood.  After all, there are people out there who would rather buy a small brick house and fix it up for $150k rather than buy a $300k condo, and there are plenty of those within a few blocks of this project.

Koreans interested in Dayton project

 

The 1,800-home Manhattan Harbour development planned for the banks of the Ohio River has attracted international interest.  The South Korean technology firm LG CNS has signed a memorandum of understanding with Manhattan Harbour's developers to be part of the project, the developers said at a public meeting Tuesday night in Dayton.

 

The particulars of the deal haven't been ironed out, but the firm would bring cutting-edge technology to the development and the rest of Dayton, said Terry Chan, president of C&M Investment Group, which is developing Manhattan Harbour.

 

Read full article here:

http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090616/NEWS0103/906170345/

wow, more  good news.. i was just on the site 2 days ago trying to imagine how all of this will fit...

^^ Great news.

 

I completely forgot about this project. lol

Is this the same LG that made my tv?

 

I had all but given up on this project. After the new developers stopped updating their blog a few months ago I had assumed it had been put on hold indefinitely. Glad to hear it's still moving along.

I might just be interested in living there...

WNKU's Steve Hirschberg talked about the project with developer Terry Chan, CEO of C&M Investment Group

 

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wnku/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1519888

Officials optimistic on Manhattan Harbour

By Scott Wartman, Kentucky Enquirer, October 30, 2009

 

DAYTON, Ky. - A recent meeting with state officials has the developer of Manhattan Harbour in Dayton and city officials optimistic they will get approval for a state tax incentive and will be able to start major construction soon.

 

If the state approves Dayton's tax-increment finance district in December, construction on a 2,000-home-and-commercial development in front of the floodwall along the Ohio River could start in early 2010.

Manhattan Harbour project gets a boost

 

By Scott Wartman • [email protected] • December 10, 2009

 

 

DAYTON - Local leaders celebrated a $198 million tax incentive approved Thursday by the state for the $1 billion development planned for the Ohio riverfront.

 

"I don't think there's any question this is the most important event in Dayton in 100 years," said Dayton City Administrator Dennis Redmond. "It could be one of the most important events in Northern Kentucky."

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091210/NEWS0103/912110364/1001/BIZ/Manhattan+Harbour+boosted

Newest article at UrbanUp:

 

Manhattan Harbour

$448 million in TIF for a $1 billion project. 

Yeah, I'm not for sure if $448 million is the final total or what. Different news articles contradicted themselves, and it was only until I ran across one that I found information about the city/county TIF that was separate from the state TIF.

Suit claims developer tried to defraud Sanitation District 1 of millions

 

By Jim Hannah • [email protected]  • March 11, 2010

 

NEWPORT - Sanitation District No. 1 claims the original developer of the Manhattan Harbour project on the Dayton riverfront tried to defraud SD1 of up to $3 million.

 

The district, which provides sewage service for most of Northern Kentucky, filed a lawsuit Wednesday in Campbell Circuit Court against developer DCI Properties-DKY of Cincinnati and contractor Coppage Construction Company Inc. of Independence.

 

http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100311/NEWS0103/3120351/Sewage+suit+cites++3M+fraud

There are obviously two sides to every story, but if this is true, these guys should burn!

Sounds kinda like the time my mom gave me 5 bucks for ice cream at Kings Island, and it only cost three-fifty so I pocketed the change.

 

The Sewer District got played, but I don't feel sorry for them. One would think they would be the ones in charge of contracting the new pipe, not the developer. When you put public infrastructure improvements under the control of for-profit corporations, of course they're going to be naughty.

 

Or maybe SD1 knew about the volume discount the whole time, and were scheming for some kickbacks? The possibilities are endless.

I think the developer and general contractor were in over their heads on this one.  That kind of short-changing happens all the time on smaller projects, but to try to pull that on a extremely large public project is simply moronic.  Coppage Construction and DCI must have been desperate to recoup any money they can on a project that is about to fail.

 

I am pretty sure this will be close behind Kenwood Towne Place and Newport Pavilion for our local landmarks of the "Great Recession"

"Coppage Construction and DCI must have been desperate to recoup any money they can on a project that is about to fail."

 

Really? How can you judge that based on one sided arguments in an article?

Really? How can you judge that based on one sided arguments in an article?

 

This is easy to get away with on a smaller scale, but they got caught. I can't believe they would try to pull this off on such a public project. In my opinion, DCI was stuck with the unexpected cost of installing the new pipe, so they skewed the numbers to pretend the material cost was much greater than it actually was and that would help lessen the cost of installation. It is a sad but true part of the commercial construction world that occasionally takes place.

 

Once again, this is just my opinion, but when I read the article yesterday I totally understood what they tried to pull off. They were either greedy, desperate, or both!

>Really? How can you judge that based on one sided arguments in an article?

 

This is a huge, complicated project.  With new construction on the much simpler Riverside Drive lots having slowed to a trickle, and plenty of similar product unoccupied and on the market, if you think this project is going to get off the ground in the next five years you're a fool.   

 

 

 

^ I think you're probably right. BUT there are always variables that could change the game. What if oil creeps up steadily? What if the trend towards city living is actually generational and not a life-cycle trend? Who knows.

 

I wonder if Korea is still in the game?

It is important to note that this project has taken just over two years to get to this stage, and the size and scale of the Harbour is vastly larger than anything on Riverside. But it is good to note that the orignal developer - who developed significant projects on Riverside Dr ironically - is prepping the site for phased development. He knows -- along with everyone else, that a total buildout now is going to be a waste. Site prep, which will take over a year to complete and is the most complicated part of the project, can proceed under a recession as he has a significant amount of TIF to draw from. I wrote specificantly on my article at http://urbanup.net 

>he size and scale of the Harbour is vastly larger than anything on Riverside

 

Exactly, it's much more of an all-or-nothing enterprise because the utilities are all brand new.  They probably just tapped into existing stuff on Riverside Rive.  It's probably $50 million up front just to build the first condo at Manhattan Harbor. 

 

This development isn't going to really work for people who actually have jobs.  The travel time between this site and I-471 at rush hour is simply too long.  So while this area might be physically closer to many of this region's jobs, it is no closer time-wise.  It think that this limits it, much more so than Riverside drive, to being attractive to trust funders and retirees.

 

 

 

Well, he does have the option on two high-speed ferries between the Harbour and downtown Cincy, so that will be interesting if it gets off the ground... probably more feasible on total build-out.

This development isn't going to really work for people who actually have jobs. The travel time between this site and I-471 at rush hour is simply too long. So while this area might be physically closer to many of this region's jobs, it is no closer time-wise. It think that this limits it, much more so than Riverside drive, to being attractive to trust funders and retirees.

 

Which is exactly why I've never understood this project.  There's no good way to get from that side of Dayton to, well, anywhere.  Unless they're hoping for a new bridge at some point in the distant future, coming and going at this place seems like it would be a total pain in the rear.

I think the 10-20 minutes it takes to drive between this location and the I-471 bridge will get old very fast.  Add to that the occasions when the bridge itself is backed up, and I think a lot of people will be cursing themselves.  And there's no way they're going to be able to start a regular ferry service until this thing is more than half-occupied, otherwise it would be an enormous financial drain. 

 

I do think that this is a great place to live otherwise, but again, I don't see it as having huge advantages over Riverside Drive.  It does have a real neighborhood business district nearby, but probably too far to walk for most people.  If you're getting in the car anyway, Riverside Drive is close to Mt. Lookout Square, Hyde Park Square, O'Bryonville, and downtown. 

 

 

I guess it would be annoying, but considering folks are willing to drive from Mason to Downtown . . . people do the oddest things.

There's no good way to get from that side of Dayton to, well, anywhere. Unless they're hoping for a new bridge at some point in the distant future, coming and going at this place seems like it would be a total pain in the rear.

 

Reconnect Torrence from Columbia Parkway down to Riverside Drive and then build a bridge over to KY. Well, I could do without the bridge...

I think you'd see some resistance from Ohio in any bridge plan, since the bridge would clearly favor development of KY's riverfrontage to the detriment of Riverside Drive.  Also, that curve is a significant navigational challenge, so the Army Corps of Engineers might require a bridge with an unusually long center span in order to keep piers well outside the navigation channel.  I think they could and should definitely charge a toll on any bridge in this area. 

 

 

 

 

 

Due to the curvature of the river, such a span would be financially infeasible since it would require a main span length that would require either a cable-stayed variant or an arch. A conventional (and cheaper) cantilever just wouldn't do. I believe there could be sufficient demand for a bridge in the future on total build-out, but there isn't the population density in Dayton. Bellevue residents can easily take the Newport crossings, and it is only a matter is blocks to get to Dayton.

 

I know the KYTC is studying options for KY 8 for total buildout of the Harbour. One of them is the elimination of all on-street parking, but that's not favored at all in both affected communities. There may be rush-hour parking options implemented.

I know it is not at this development per se, but what about a bridge across from Lunken airport or somewhere in that vicinity. I still like Jmech's idea about an Eastside tunnel as the best option for that whole side of town.

IF Cincinnati begins to re-densify for various global reasons, I think we'll see much more thought and intensity to infrastructure all around the basin. But for now this is all speculation.

I've always thought that DT and Covington should be linked by a real subway tunnel, not a bridge over by the Clay Wade, which would bypass Covington's downtown.  Think about one line diverging south to I-75 from Covington and another heading east under the Licking River with stations at Ovation, NOTL, and two beneath Fairfield Ave. in Bellevue, then surfacing in Dayton and running either on that main drag or into this development and along the river. 

 

This solves the problems with the suspension bridge and solves the issue with not being able to expand the 5th St. bridge for streetcars.  Hard to believe but the route just described is about 3.5 miles from Covington to Dayton, with a little more than two miles of tunnel.  Also hard to believe, but the distance between 5th St. in Covington and 5th St. in Cincinnati is exactly one mile. 

 

 

 

I know the KYTC is studying options for KY 8 for total buildout of the Harbour. One of them is the elimination of all on-street parking, but that's not favored at all in both affected communities. There may be rush-hour parking options implemented.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine that Bellevue would want four lanes of traffic running through their NBD, not to mention the reduced parking.

I've heard a vicious rumor that the private land in this development has been foreclosed upon.

^I heard the same news several months back

And to add to the mystery I just found out they are trucking dirt from the casino site downtown to the Dayton riverfront!

is this area to the right of the proposed development, looking down from Ohio that is? and is is Bellevue or Dayton? 

hmmm.....

Dayton, Ky., dreaming big about Manhattan Harbour

Vision for riverfront: Single-family homes, high-rise condos, luxury apartments and businesses

 

A waterfront development boasting luxury living is gaining steam as the city of Dayton enters into a new lease for Manhattan Harbour marina.

 

East End-based developer DCI Properties has been moving and filling ground to make way for the long-awaited Manhattan Harbour development, a 73-acre multi-use complex on Dayton’s waterfront. Now, WDG, Waterfront Development Group, also of Cincinnati, has agreed to enhance the city-owned marina just east of the project to create a top-scale destination for residents and visitors.

 

“This is looking promising for Dayton,” City Administrator Dennis Redmond said Wednesday.

 

The city and WDG forged their partnership Aug. 7 for the operation of the marina at 1301 Fourth Ave. and development of 9.6 acres just to its west.

 

WDG has not announced plans for the 9.6 acres yet.

 

Cont

New Phase of Manhattan Harbour Moves Forward, but Committee is Stunned by Lack of Green Space

 

 

After years of looking at a rendering of the ambitious Manhattan Harbour project that will reshape Dayton, Kentucky's riverfront, members of the planning and zoning committee expressed surprise this week that the green space in the rendering will not translate to actual green space for the community.

 

"I was thinking more like Bellevue Beach Park with grass right down to the river," said committee member Lynn Adam on Tuesday night. "This is not what is going to happen down there."

 

http://rcnky.com/articles/2013/10/17/new-phase-manhattan-harbour-moves-forward-committee-stunned-lack-green-space

All they have to do for green space is make fake hills.  Presto.

$400M riverfront project (finally) starting construction: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

For eight years, developer David Imboden has stuck with his plan for a massive development along the river in Dayton, Ky.

 

Now, construction of the first single-family homes in Imboden’s $400 million project, Manhattan Harbour, will start in January.

 

“This will be the best, world-class waterfront development in the country,” Imboden said. “There will be nothing like it anywhere.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/12/04/400m-riverfront-project-finally.html

Will be good for core region adding that many new units and homes.  Part of my fiance's family is from Dayton KY, and I'm a little curious what the people who live there feel about this project.  That area is more lower middle class from my knowledge, and I can see them having issues with crazy expensive new houses and buildings in their neighborhood.  We'll see how that works out.  It will be interesting to see this progress, especially since you can see this area from the lookout in Eden Park.  The view will be forever different.

$400M riverfront project (finally) starting construction: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

For eight years, developer David Imboden has stuck with his plan for a massive development along the river in Dayton, Ky.

 

Now, construction of the first single-family homes in Imboden’s $400 million project, Manhattan Harbour, will start in January.

 

“This will be the best, world-class waterfront development in the country,” Imboden said. “There will be nothing like it anywhere.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/12/04/400m-riverfront-project-finally.html

 

I wish him well. those are some pricey homes and not much spec development so we shall see.

I'm more worried about access than the disparity in housing prices. The only easy way in and out of Dayton is route 8, which already backs up throughout Bellevue every day.