Hi, just wanted to see if there were any takers in wanting to discuss how to abate problems such as unnecessary, obnoxious, or excessive noise in a neighborhood....  littering, graffiti, and many other quality of life issues that follow the path of the 'broken window theory' If there is such a thread, please disregard, but if not, I am looking for those who would actually be willing to get pro-active on such issues.

 

My expertise is in the area of abating unnecessary, purposefully initiated, and excessive, noise issues. I have a wealth of knowledge and experience on that topic, (not by choice!) in how it socially, physically, (property values) environmentally, and economically can and will ruin any given place... Yet, ironically, by most, it is seen as a mere nuisance issue, and often not thought about at all...but that could not be farther from the real truth.

 

Quality of life issues can be a bit more specific than general crime issues. (I know there is a thread on that) This thread can discuss more about preventions and specifics, so I don't get accused of going off topic.

 

So, if any of this sounds interesting, let's talk.

 

I guess it depends on where you live.  When I have issues that really annoy me I just walk over to my councilmans house and tell him what I think!  When I wrote him in the past, I would copy the previous ward 6 council person since she lived in the Larchmere district.

 

Also, getting involved and communicating with the various city services in your area, your community development board along with neighboring apartments, SF home owners and businesses helps create a net of security, that works together to improve the quality of life.

Come here to NYC and see if you can rid Washington Heights and Inwood of their noise issues. If you do, you'll get a Nobel Prize.

 

Booming car stereos, illegal fireworks, drag-racing motorcycles, gunfire, Mister Softee ice cream trucks, car alarms, street thugs hanging out in parks and on the sidewalks screaming at each other, you name it. It happens at all hours of the day and night, but is especially bad on weekend nights during the summer. Our local police precinct is absolutely worthless, and our local Community Board and elected officials are ineffective.

 

All that, combined with the obscene cost of living in this city, would have me running back home to Cincinnati in a heartbeat if I didn't have a good job here.

Come here to NYC and see if you can rid Washington Heights and Inwood of their noise issues. If you do, you'll get a Nobel Prize.

 

Booming car stereos, illegal fireworks, drag-racing motorcycles, gunfire, Mister Softee ice cream trucks, car alarms, street thugs hanging out in parks and on the sidewalks screaming at each other, you name it. It happens at all hours of the day and night, but is especially bad on weekend nights during the summer. Our local police precinct is absolutely worthless, and our local Community Board and elected officials are ineffective.

 

All that, combined with the obscene cost of living in this city, would have me running back home to Cincinnati in a heartbeat if I didn't have a good job here.

 

Nobody told you to move up there with those damn Platanos!  Speakers in teh windows blasting merengue & Bachata!  Call immigration on their a$$e$, that will quiet them down for a while!  LOL

 

Since i've been in NYC, WH has been infested with crime and city services that turn a blind eye to the crime that is right in front of their face.

I wish I could say it was just Washington Heights and Inwood, but it's been a consistent problem in every NYC neighborhood I've ever lived in. WaHI is by far the worst, though.

 

Many locals seem to dismiss it, saying "Well, that's life in the Big Apple" as if that somehow excuses it. Same with all the other frustrations and irritations of living in this city.

 

Crappy service and poor selection at your neighborhood grocery store? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Thugs hanging out in front of your building and won't go away? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Paying four figures for a rundown, shoebox-sized apartment in a marginal neighborhood? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Well, pretty soon I'm hoping I can tell the Big Apple to kiss my ass.

I wish I could say it was just Washington Heights and Inwood, but it's been a consistent problem in every NYC neighborhood I've ever lived in. WaHI is by far the worst, though.

 

Many locals seem to dismiss it, saying "Well, that's life in the Big Apple" as if that somehow excuses it. Same with all the other frustrations and irritations of living in this city.

 

Crappy service and poor selection at your neighborhood grocery store? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Thugs hanging out in front of your building and won't go away? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Paying four figures for a rundown, shoebox-sized apartment in a marginal neighborhood? "Well, that's life in the Big Apple."

 

Well, pretty soon I'm hoping I can tell the Big Apple to kiss my ass.

 

LMAO!

Well, my City Council-creature just resigned today, presumably in light of forthcoming federal corruption charges. Maybe his replacement will pay more attention to neighborhood quality-of-life issues instead of running a criminal enterprise.

Maybe its you?  You do complain quite a bit!

Well, complacency on these issues nationally has been a big part of the reason they are allowed to escalate. Those who have been conditioned to think "that's just the way it is" become a part of the problem. On excessive/unnecessary noise issues specifically, there is always something you can do. I would suggest first, to begin to become educated and well informed on the issue. The best sources are www.noisfree.org www.noiseoff.org and www.lowertheboom.org Read these sites thouroughly, then if you have an issue, solutions can be discussed.

 

The less accountable people who do not know how to behave in communal settings are held...the lower the standards become by not only themselves, but to their peers as well, and when that happens, the result is "weell..that's just how it is"  Granted, nothing will be perfect, but in many places, we have a long way to go just to get back to average and acceptable behavior, if you have someone pelting you with unwanted sounds.

 

If you do have a specific noise issue, I can share my ideas on how I have been successful in abating such. It is a long and grueling process. If you live in New York, I suggest contacting Richard Tur with Noiseoff. I started the thread for those interested in real solutions which can be discussed in a mature fashion...and not to get on and simply gripe about it. There are some people who really need help with such an issue and I am willing to offer what I know works within the confines of national, state, and local law.

Maybe its you?  You do complain quite a bit!

I don't blame him.  If I was a NYC resident, I would complain as well!

You think Washington Heights is bad? Try living in the East Village. Friday and Saturday nights are a nightmare. I think every 18-25 year old in the tri-state area comes here, clogging up the sidewalks and becoming drunken louts behaving like it’s some sort of decadent theme park of overpriced clubs and bars built for their pleasure, having no concept (or, in truth, not really caring) that people actually live here! God forbid you should bump into them (okay, deliberately. It’s more fun that way) trying to get from point A to point B.  But my greatest wish would be to reverse the non-smoking laws that went into effect for bars a few years ago. No, it’s not enough to jump hurdles over the idiots who crowd the entrances, but it just adds to the challenge to not get singed with burning ashes from a dozen cigarettes being carelessly tossed onto innocent passersby...and oh, yes, we sure could use another hookah bar, one to two per block are not nearly enough!

bah. you guys are all a bunch of whiny pikers. you got nuthin.

 

try living in clubland aka the meatpacking district.

 

not to mention on a busy major cross street/intersection thats between two police precincts.

 

street noise. i embrace you. i accept you. louder please.

 

 

    Most street noise comes from cars. Getting away from cars will reduce most of the noise.

 

    The suburban model does this by reducing density. Only one car on the street every 20 minutes leaves most of the day quiet.

 

    There are other ways to do it in an urban setting, such as placing a park in the center of the block surrounded by buildings. The buildings will help reduce the street noise.

 

    Placing motorways in a depression one level below the street is definitely better than placing them on overpasses one level above the street.

Unfortunately, it's a bit late for those measures in neighborhoods that are already established. :)

 

I do agree the physical layout of the city makes a big difference, though. I lived in Chicago for a long time, and I didn't find the street noise there to be nearly as bad as in NYC. Part of the reason, of course, is that the lower cost of living allowed somebody in my salary range to live in a nicer neighborhood. But even expensive Lincoln Park (where I lived for a while) had plenty of street noise issues on the major avenues.

 

Chicago's street grid outside of the Loop is arranged so that major arterial streets are spaced every half-mile, with residential side streets filling in with 4 blocks in one direction and 8 blocks in the other. These side streets tend to have dense foliage, which helps block noise from the arterial streets, and alleys run between the blocks so that garbage trucks are mostly kept off the side streets. (The alleys also keep the streets free of unsightly utility lines, garbage cans, and garage entrances.) Back on some of these side streets, you can be up to 1/4 mile away from a major avenue and hardly hear anything except crickets chirping.

 

Here in NYC, the city is generally laid out with major avenues running every block in one direction, smaller side streets running perpendicular, no alleys, and very few street trees in some areas. As such, you're never more than a half-block away from some major commercial strip, and because there's no alleys between the streets, your apartment building often buts right up to the building on the next block. It only takes one inconsiderate neighbor to ruin the quality of life for people in several buildings.

 

There are many things about NYC that are better than Chicago, but in terms of noise and general quality of life, Chicago gets it right. That said, a neighborhood like Cincinnati's Mount Lookout of my hometown of Fort Thomas has been looking very appealing to me lately.

It can be just as noisy in suburban areas where incessant anal lawn care obsessives are constantly running some gas powered something. The more we sprawl (many moving because of noise..US Census Bureau-among the number one reasons people move) the more the noise follows. Suburbia is far from peaceful, overall, by a long shot. Again, if you have any specific excessive/unnecessary noise issue. please see the best sites and organizations: www.noiseoff.org www.noisefree.org www.lowertheboom.org (specific for boom cars and illegally modified exhausts) Hope this helps.

I would kill for short term/residential permit parking in front of my house.  But the City of Cleveland is all like "Oh, we only do that in Little Italy".  So, yeah, we're working on it with Councilman Cimperman.....

 

But the reason why I say this is that family members of residents of the CMHA Bohn Building use the streets of our neighborhood for their own personal parking lot.  Sometimes they return to their cars in the wee hours of the morning in a very loud fashion.  Other times, they just leave their cars in front of our houses 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  I'm getting to the point where I'm very tempted to report them abandoned after the 72 hours.

 

So, you're probably thinking "You live downtown, you asked for it!", but downtown is getting more and more residental, and the city needs to make it residential-friendly.  People and their guests all over downtown (and the city of Cleveland as a whole!) should be able to park somewhere near their house or building without being displaced by people with which they have no association.

 

I guess I'm just more peeved because this is clearly cheating of the system (or lack thereof).  With so many d@mn unutilized surface parking lots on the nights and weekends, why can't the City strike up a deal with the lot owners for guests to legally park in them when they're not being used???

 

Anywho, that's my only downtown quality of life issue thus far. 

 

EDIT:  I should also mention people that work downtown park all over our streets during the day as well..... also for free.

 

 

"Suburbia is far from peaceful, "

 

so is exurbia.  Once you get a little farther out from the city center, recreational airplane noice becomes an issue.  All these little county airports house a number of small private planes.  Their owners like to go out and 'circle" the area all day long on Saturday and Sunday.  Not sure why they do this, but they just fly around the same compact place for hours and hours.  You can be 5 miles from an airport, but if the pilot targets your area, you are out of luck. 

okay L in G, you win, Wash Hts is noisier than the E. Vill (a little)!

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03102008/news/regionalnews/no_rest_in_wa_shh__ington_hts__101261.htm

 

NO REST IN WA-SHH!-INGTON HTS

By REBECCA ROSENBERG and ERIN CALABRESE

 

March 10, 2008

 

Not even the dead get peace from honking horns and idling buses in Washington Heights, which has led the city in overall noise complaints since last July.

 

 

Poor things!  lol

Does 311 even DO anything about noise?? LOL.

The only thing a 311 call does is create a paper trail. If a particular nightclub (for example) has a major history of noise complaints to 311, it could become a factor when that business goes before the community board to get approval for an expansion or to renew their liquor license. So 311 may not solve an immediate noise problem, but it can be helpful in dealing with a long-term nuisance.

"If there are people complaining, tell them to stop. You live in New York, but you should probably live in the suburbs," said Liz Houghton, 22, who grew up in the suburbs and now lives in the East Village, where she visited Coyote Ugly early Saturday.

 

 

Honestly, when I see articles like this with morons condoning excessive or unnecessary noise to justify the anti-social behavior of a few...and at the same time totally disregarding the right of someone to have peace in their OWN home, it again and again just reaffirms the fact those justifying the behavior  have no credibility through the eyes of the better percent who get what it means to live in a communal setting. I switch off instantly to that kind of ignorance and disregard.

 

Those who are the loudest rarely if ever see themselves as loud or making a problem. The world will not revolve around their desire to act like they're entitled to behave however they wish and drag everyone else into it. It is not an anarchy. And, I am talking about going beyond the level of what can be considered tolerable noise levels in any area. They always hang themselves in a court of law if this stuff is ever disputed.

 

This culture of loud and rude......where being rude is made to look cool and imposed on everyone whether they want it or not, is pervasive. It is because too many people keep insisting they have some kind of "right" to impose their behavior on everyone else, no matter where they are and when  ("I'm entitled") that makes it pretty much impossible to escape the kind of stupidity that drags everyone else into someone else's self indulgence to be overly loud. Instead of the noisemaker telling someone to 'go move' Why doesn't that person instead....learn some common manners? Oh, I guess it is easier to be stupid.

 

Perhaps this is why the noisiest areas produce the highest percentage of kids with learning disabilities. (Actually true fact..see WTO noise reports) Hmmmmm.. What cost will that levy on society in the future? Just look at the World Health Organization's reports on noise and its impact to the human body.

 

Like I said, if anyone really wants to get the low down on negative economic, social, physical and environmental impacts of acoustic assault, go to the websites I listed above. Learn about the "flight or fight" response which is cited by audiologists. Some of these people may want to actually give their noise addicted, audio over-stimulated ear canals an enema...and discover the joy in actually experiencing thought and the sounds of peace for a change.

 

BTW... I am investing in stocks in the hearing aid business, because this country is on the verge of a plague of deafness in people at very young ages. Its already happening and its costly. I party...have partied...have been loud...But you just have to know when enough is enough and not to forcefully drag the entire neighborhood into it.  Some people have families, jobs, and actually NEED the simple human basic right/need of a restful night's sleep.  God I must be selfish to want that!

 

B.t.w... Anyone who has an extreme noise problem and wants help in abating it, please email me off forum. I started this thread for those who may have a real problem with such ongoing issues, and who are seeking real solutions and which avenues to take to achieve them.

 

Thank You

Very interesting thread. I feel for you in Washington Hts. that sounds like a hellish existance noise wise.

I think part of the problem with "hot spots" like meat packing and EV, is the majority of residents are renters and the businesses in those areas have a larger voice and deeper pockets.

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

 

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

 

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Trust me... I have said/pondered  "Hmmmm" So many times to the thought of finding Paul Kersey!  :whip:

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

 

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Lawd!

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

 

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Lawd!

 

okay, since the goal is to reduce noise we'll use silencers.

I do a presentation talk on noise issues/quality of life for block clubs, if anyone is interested, just drop me a line. For the specific problem of booming vehicles with the 'audio terrorism' weapons disguised as stereos, I have a 24 minute pod cast interview with an expert on the damages of that kind of sound (low frequency coupled with vibration)

 

Just let me know.. I'll be happy to get it for you!

 

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Lawd!

 

okay, since the goal is to reduce noise we'll use silencers.

 

EVD with a gun.  Scary!

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Works for me. I've got a clear view shot of Broadway from my fire escape. I figure you'd only have to take out two or three troublemakers before everybody else gets the message.

what we really need are vigilantes :shoot:

 

Works for me. I've got a clear view shot of Broadway from my fire escape. I figure you'd only have to take out two or three troublemakers before everybody else gets the message.

 

Just call INS/DHS on them.  I guarantee there are some illegals up in there.  >:D >:D

 

Try being a bouncer with these kind of immature bastards. I can't stand kids these days, especially college kids. They are absolutely the most self-centered, ignorant, intolerant excuses for human beings to come along in ages. Living in Athens, you certainly saw it in spades. But it is spreading everywhere in America- the douchebag plague. This whole country is turning into New Jersey. People just don't know how to behave in public anymore.

 

But still, if you want nightlife, you've got to have noise. It goes hand-in-hand. Kids want a loud drunkfest. It makes it easier to hook up, and like most things in America, sex comes before everything else. It's tough for older people to understand just how self-destructive/trashy/annoying these younger generations have become. Spend some time with them in their natural environment and that's all you'll really see- rampant immaturity in the 20-something crowd, worse than most teenagers. And since the alcohol industry is going to single-handedly save our economy, get used to it. People drink more in a depression. The only thing consumers will always consume is alcohol. I'd say this culture is going to get worse before it gets better. You've now got a huge percentage of unemployed kids who are drinking away their stress. They make my life a living hell some nights.

 

How old are you???

 

 

Dr. Njaim preaching the same old sermon yet once again.  sigh.

^24. Nice graphic.

 

But basically, I think people need to realize that they need the nightlife to survive since it's brining in revenue to the city. That's why many police departments and councilmen are avoiding a crackdown. It does seem like there is less enforcement since the depression started.

 

Probably along the lines of Prohibition being repealed. Dare I say we may see a change in legal drinking age? I think there's a thread on it, but it hasn't been updated in a while.

You're 24 and hating on College Grads?  :wtf: :wtf:  Lawd.

 

You have enough self incriminating post here on UO, to be called a big fat hypocrite!  LMAO

It's a balance issue. How much of the noise is good for the economy versus how much is bad for the economy?

 

Yes it is about balance...and right now, there is hardly balance for a growing number of citizens. I have been somewhat vague on my posts, because I will not get on here and lecture with stats, and articles and references to illustrate what I am saying. That is why I requested offline contact.

 

I also created this thread for people who want to do something about these issues..NOT for people to defend/debate their right to be an imposing self indulgent idiot. (not saying that to you)

 

I would be glad to provide you with a thorough education on this topic, but first you should read the websites I have provided. But here is something to wet the appetite: (I should let you know that I have researched these issues for many many years, so you're not talking to someone brandishing blank statements that cannot be backed up) According to the US Census Bureau, excessive noise is among the top reasons people move out of a neighborhood....(taking their tax money with them, creating sprawl) and this goes for ALL ages and many walks of life.

 

Noise assault is not something that exclusively offends the 'old' ....as many younger people have this unfounded misconception. (but even if it did?? Is that logic to suggest we should not give a crap about the elderly?) It actually ends up driving vitality OUT of any given area, in the LONG run. I will also add that such neighborhood issues, coast to coast, are causing police departments to have to field a barrage of citizen complaints, spending valuable resources on what used to be smoothed over with a simple "please respect the neighbors" request by a neighbor. But when that is requested, 9 out of 10 times it is met with indifference and an "I can do what the BLEEP I want" attitude.

 

Ask any police department what their number one complaint is, and noise disturbances will be right at the top, if not THEEE top. Additionally, municipal councils all over have to spend countless public dollars on redrafting and revamping noise ordinances simply because we now have to make laws to remind people to have common sense and manners, that somehow they were never shown to begin with. So acting-- -just basically respectable to most people---to them, becomes something they are conditioned to think is an encroachment on 'their rights' So, stupidity is levying a huge cost on communities all over. And finally, according to the data I and thousands in the "pro-quality sound-scape" movement (anti-noise pollution) receive on a daily basis from news streams, police departments, articles, etc... Each month, in this country alone, someone is either shot, beaten, or stabbed over a noise incident--and the victim is usually the person who simply requested their neighbor tone it down a bit. Maybe he/she has a child needing sleep. Maybe it is a parent who works in health care and needs a good night's rest to perform the best they can on their job. Whatever the case, it is a growing problem.

 

Part of the reason it has grown from a legal standpoint, is that when the EPA Office On Noise Pollution Abatement was defunded in the early 80's under the Reagan Administration, it opened the flood gates for many companies who produce items like electronics, exhaust pipes, landscaping equipment, HVAC and more, to basically evade the decibel standards that were deemed tolerable or 'acceptable' for a reasonably peaceful community.

 

There is also an inept notion that floats around these days that associates noise with being 'vibrant' This is another story I love to blow up on how absurd it is, but for now I will just ask.. You mean no city in the world was ever vibrant until we made excessive noise? Even the great ancient Rome enacted one of the first city noise ordinances when chariots would make intolerable amounts of noise late at night as they clattered along brick streets--and so ordinance prohibited such activity at a certain set of hours. (muck like flight path curfews with airports) And remember, 'noise' by definition, simply means: 'unwanted sound' ...and it does not have to be loud to be irritating or offensive, left unabated.

 

Whatever the case someone has with a noise issue, let's get this straight...one's so called 'right' to make excessive noise, does not, and never will supersede someone else's right in their own home to reasonable peace and quiet. (domestic peace and tranquility as granted in the constitution) People who try to defend such stupidity in court rarely win--and in fact, when they try and defend it, it really does the anti-noise pollution movement a BIG favor, as it reveals just how stupid some people really are.

 

There is really little--that many types of unnecessary noise have in anything socially redeeming. And I am not talking about the normal chatter of East 4th Street, so please people, don't throw that in this, as you KNOW the difference between what is inappropriate and over the top......for example..... how is a guy driving by on a motorcycle fitted with illegal exhausts, with a screaming gut wrenching obnoxious bellow noise supposed to enhance anyone's sidewalk cafe meal? Most people want to heave up their lunch or look at that going by with a cringe.

 

The argument 'noise adds economic benefits' is critically weak and is defeated all the time. Normal average levels like E.4th.. that's fine, but again, I think most rational people know what I am talking about. I have seen people try and pose this argument against experts and they make fools of themselves all the time. 

 

Excessive noise is a form of pollution, a public health issue, and has been regulated for very good reasons. The argument it 'has economic benefits'  would be the same as saying 'the river catching fire has economic benefits' Sure, it does for those who have to be paid to clean up the mess, but is that the kind of thing you want to build the economy around? That which is harmful? Just about anything can have economic benefits, but that does not make it right for a communities long term health. Murder has economic benefits in the sale of weapons, but is that what you want driving the economy? 

 

If anyone wants to really debate that with the experts, I suggest contacting Dr. Louis Haggler MD. in Oakland, CA.,  Richard Tur in New York City, and owner of www.noiseoff.org or just look at those websites and see countless articles demonstrating the ill effects that go unseen. There is several years of work associated with studying the effects of noise pollution People who have done such work are not dummies. The group is made up of many credible Drs. Lawyers, Teachers, Scientists, business people, economists, etc.. Check it out.

 

I learned the hard way about this issue, and it opened up my eyes to things I never knew and was shocked to learn. Cannot share it in 10 minutes.

 

The argument that "noise is good for the economy" overall, is simply absurd. Those who educate themselves on this topic will understand why. Noise by itself is a by-product of things we do in a modern economy, but most of it is unwanted sound...as IS the definition of noise.

 

Again..I am not talking about a crowd roaring at a game, a tavern with a concert..and the party scenes where expected noises are contained within a known district. I am talking about anything that encroaches above and beyond what should be humanly expected to be tolerated no matter where you live. Also read about the 'fight or flight' response and how noise assault will result in a sudden rise in blood pressure, adrenaline and aggression.

 

 

www.noiseoff.org