Latino's make up 13% of the US population now. They have now passed blacks as the #1 minority group in the USA, yet they only make up 2% of the Ohio popualation.

 

Do you think drawing more hispanic's to Ohio maybe a key to keep our state healthy as far as diversity and the economy.

 

Oh btw Latino women are the most beautiful women i've ever seen..;)

As a Latino,  most Latinos I know, as with blacks, have a preception that portions of the midwest are extremely racist and unwelcoming and in many of those areas there isn't a diverse Latin population to "latch" onto.  Some of the biggest things I hear are, certain places do not "embrace" diversity. for example, Parades, Latino heritage month, Puerto Rican Day Parade, entertainment brought to the city. (ie a Latino series at playhouse square), shown in a positive light in the media, state, city elected representation, teachers in schools, etc.

 

In Cleveland proper there is a decent Cuban, pr, Mexican & Brazilian population and growing central american population, Lorain had a HUGE puerto rican population,  yet many don't have "direct access" to the city from their home country which leaves Cleveland (NEO) of the map.  In addition, the perception of city as not being welcoming or open to other learning another language has it downfalls.

 

For instance, people use the word "hispanic" when in actuality they should be using the word "latina/o".

 

I think NEO can gain population like Miami, southern texas, s. cali if we had a Public Relations strategy.  Ethnic populations build up neighborhoods.  In addition we should be marketing ourselves to germany, Hungary, Argentina, Caribbean, Mexico, Italy, poland, Israel, asian, Persian & middle east countries using existing residents and using our technological and medical power to lure smart thinkers, entrepreneurs and corporations here.

 

sigh

well growing up in a uniquely multi-ethnic ohio city of over a third hispanic population i can tell you for one thing that it most certainly prepared me for working in inner-city new york city. so yeah it helps build a better world view for ohioans.

 

i believe not just pan-hispanic immigration will help ohio, but any and all immigration at all will help breathe life into stagnation. ohio or at least parts of it should actively seek residents from around the world. what better place to start than our own hemisphere of the world where we all share so much history in common --- central and south america and the islands?

 

well growing up in a uniquely multi-ethnic ohio city of over a third hispanic population i can tell you for one thing that it most certainly prepared me for working in inner-city new york city. so yeah it helps build a better world view for ohioans.

 

i believe not just pan-hispanic immigration will help ohio, but any and all immigration at all will help breathe life into stagnation. ohio or at least parts of it should actively seek residents from around the world. what better place to start than our own hemisphere of the world where we all share so much history in common --- central and south america and the islands?

 

 

Ohio City/Tremont/Detroit Shoreway are very representative of NYC or DC, San Fran in terms of urban living and racial makeup.  Rich/Poor, Young/Old, New Condos/Refurbs/Older Homes, Straight/Gay, Male/Female, White/Latin/Black, Resident/Visitor attractions, etc.

 

In that area there is a sense of strong communities and a sense of "we can do or be anything"  & "accomplishment" as opposed to some areas of cleveland  - burbs included.

 

I also felt this in the "new" central neighborhood when I drove around.  I was shocked at how nice the homes and the park area are.

My feeling is that this could be a key population to improving Ohio.  Some of our cities have this terrible black/white dynamic going on, that makes it feel really backwards.  Immigrants historically have revitalized regions they move into.

 

It seems that many of the Mexican and Central American immigrants migrate to historic houses with low rents.  This is why many have settled in Hamilton.  Unfortunately, Hamilton's paper has letters to the editor almost everyday in which natives complain about the "illegals".

http://www.journal-news.com/news/content/news/stories/2005/11/03/HJN1103commvoice.html

 

I say come to Cincinnati's West Side and enjoy good solid housing at good prices!

It seems that many of the Mexican and Central American immigrants migrate to historic houses with low rents.  This is why many have settled in Hamilton.  Unfortunately, Hamilton's paper has letters to the editor almost everyday in which natives complain about the "illegals".

http://www.journal-news.com/news/content/news/stories/2005/11/03/HJN1103commvoice.html

 

I read the Journal everyday and have read many ignorant statements from what I believe is the older population. Although Hamilton has a real downtown, high density housing, and the 12th largest population in Ohio, the city still has a suburban mentality. For some reason, a percentage of the population is scared of minorities. Read Hometown, a book written about the city in the 70's when the city struggled with busing of African Americans,etc., Hamilton has a past of racial tensions. I sometimes pick up a lady for church who lives in the heart of the east avenue neighborhood, where the hispanic community has moved in. She is 89 and lived in the same house her whole life. She watched as crime slowly rose, blacks moved in, the neighborhood began to deteriorate and then lately hispanics have started to dominate the area, so her views about minorites are not too PC. Not that this justifies anything, but people who have lived through the changes are the primary source of the racism. The collapse of industry, aging of housing, etc. are not even considered as factors. Luckily, groups from Miami Hamilton and social organizations have formed to uplift the minorities and stop the discimination. This was hurt drastically by the rape, and I am almost glad to see that the father was arrested for drug dealing, some of the whites need to realize their own race has some pretty corrupt members causing the same trouble as a small percentage of the minorities are. i remember seeing some crime stats that showed that white crime in the east avenue area was just as high percentage wise for whites and since whites make up over 89% of Hamilton and hispanics make up just over 2%, well no need to explain.

As a Latino,  most Latinos I know, as with blacks, have a preception that portions of the midwest are extremely racist and unwelcoming and in many of those areas there isn't a diverse Latin population to "latch" onto.

 

Very good observation and I agree. This is the reason I think the percentage of Latinos in southern Ohio is so low. It also has political implications. Toledo has had many city councilmen/women who are Latino (inlcuding the two-term openly gay Louis Escobar). I'm guessing after the elections, two to four of the city council seats will be Latino in Toledo! I'm not sure how the other Ohio cities are doing, but I would imagine that Toledo's support of the Latino community is a reason the city and metro has an exploding Latino population and the highest percentage of Latinos of any larger metro in Ohio. There are historical reasons too, mainly migrant workers working the fields of the corn belt, and you will find barrios way out in the country (Delta, Defiance, etc.) in Northwest Ohio because of this. I would wager the same about Chicago and Illinois.

 

As for tolerance, it seems that many view southern Ohio as hostile and not accepting of diversity in a larger sense (and I agree somewhat with this thought based on who I know from the Greater Dayton and Nati, and Southeast Ohio). I think a lot of it has to do with the "Big Red Machine" working its magic on Southern Ohio and a lack of powerful minorities in politics.

 

Uh...no. 

 

Hispanics largely have voted Republican and Democratic (thus, the big rift in the past two elections).  If anything, Mexicans in general lean a bit more conservative due to the "family values" instituted in their culture.  If ANY city in Ohio has been on the forefront of "not accepting" and "hostile," it's Toledo in the news as of recent.  Dayton has always been accepting to Hispanics (ironic that Kettering has the area's Latino Festival); the problem with Dayton is...it has no jobs to attract Hispanics.  Cincinnati is attracting Hispanics (particularly Guetemeleans) on the city's west side.  Toledo's Hispanic population clearly stems from Detroit's Downriver access to the Great Lakes ports/NW Ohio farm culture and such.  Cleveland's has been historically more Puerto Rican/Brasilian/etc due to the old LTV/Steel/Lorain/etc.  Southeast Ohio lacks "jobs" for Mexicans to migrate to, thus the agrigarian northern Ohio, which has farms and such, is more attractive for Hispanics.  When have you ever heard a detailed explaination of Hispanics moving to Altoona to work in the coal mines?  Or Mingo Junction to work "for the man every night and day?"

 

The whole idea of Hispanics choosing northern over southern Ohio because of politics is outlandishly silly.  Otherwise, Pennsylvania would be a hotbed of Hispanic growth vs. the more "conservative" Kansas backwashes.  Oh wait.  It isn't.  Rural Pennsylvania (and to an extent, Pittsburgh), like Southeast Ohio, is mostly old industrial rustbelt in which there are no jobs for Hispanics.  Kansas?  Agrigarian and simple.  Food is always needed.

 

So please, leave "Metro Dayton" out of the blindly ignorant comments of "not accepting diversity" shit.

Population and job growth does not rest on any individual group in society; however, it rests in the hands of the policy makers and business leaders of the state of Ohio.  When good economic strategies are in place to attract both jobs and people the state will once again prosper.  But until that time the current powers at be in Ohio will continue to run it into the ground!!!

 

IMPEACH TAFT

IMPEACH CHABOT

IMPEACH BOEHNER......just to mention a few.

As for tolerance, it seems that many view southern Ohio as hostile and not accepting of diversity in a larger sense (and I agree somewhat with this thought based on who I know from the Greater Dayton and Nati, and Southeast Ohio). I think a lot of it has to do with the "Big Red Machine" working its magic on Southern Ohio and a lack of powerful minorities in politics.

 

 

That might be your most ignorant statement yet.  Southwest Ohio isn't perfect but for the most part it is the healthiest part of Ohio in terms of jobs.  Not growth but more sustainment.  While many parts of Ohio are losing jobs (unfortunate), the Cincinnati metro has been fortunate or lucky (so far) to sustain its job base.  We have a growing Indian population and neighborhoods like Lower Price Hill have seen an increase in Hispanics to the area.  I personally think seeing more Hispanics move to the area is a good thing and welcome it.  I know you have an inferiority complex about Cincinnati-Dayton but give it a rest.  We are part of one state.

 

 

Just to put a few facts out to round out the discussion a touch...Hamilton County actually has a higher percentage of foreign born people than Lucas County does - 3.4% to 3.2%.  Overall, Cincinnati and its surrounding counties are pretty much just as diverse as Toledo and its surrounding counties - it's just that Toledo has more Latinos, and Cincinnati has more black folks, but both have about the same percentage of non-Latino whites.  Here's some numbers I pulled from the census:

 

     Foreign Born Hispanic Black White Total Population

Lucas 3.20% 4.50% 17.00% 75.40% 450,632

Henry 1.30% 5.40% 0.60% 93.00% 29,382

Fulton 1.30% 5.80% 0.20% 92.70% 42,919

Wood 2.40% 3.30% 1.30% 93.30% 123,278

Ottowa 1.10% 3.70% 0.60% 94.60% 41,407

Area: 2.73% 4.36% 11.45% 81.60% 687,618

 

     Foreign Born Hispanic Black White Total Population

Hamilton 3.40% 1.10% 23.40% 72.90% 814,611

Butler 2.70% 1.40% 5.30% 91.20% 346,560

Warren 2.30% 1.00% 2.70% 94.70% 189,276

Clermont 1.60% 0.90% 0.90% 97.10% 188,614

Area: 2.89% 1.13% 14.02% 82.67% 1,539,061

 

...and by the way, Lorain County blows Lucas County away on Latino population - it's 6.9% Hispanic in Lorain County, vs. 4.5% in Lucas County.  Now, is that because Lorain County is so much more Blue than Lucas County?  Well, Kerry won Lucas County 60/40...he won Lorain County 56/44...Lucas is bluer than Lorain, but Lorain has 50% more Latinos than Lucas.

 

Sandusky, with a 7.0% Hispanic population, went for Bush 56/44; Franklin, with a 2.3% Hispanic population, went for Kerry 55/45.

 

 

I guess I'd have two questions here:

 

1) Is there any evidence that politics is in any way related to diversity in general, Latino diversity specifically?  I mean, it's easy to assert it, but I see nothing that corroborates it in any way.  Maybe Bush/Kerry is an inadequate measure of the politics asserted - what would work better?  Maybe counties and county groups are too small to see the trends emerge - what would work better?

 

2) What's the mechanism?  How do these politics actually work?  Do Latinos in rural Georgia decide to leave their job so they can live in liberal Rhode Island?  That sounds like hyperbole, but it's not unreasonable - perhaps successful Latinos do gravitate towards more accepting areas (which they measure how?), and then are the key for bringing friends and family with them.  I know of a very large Russian, particularly Jewish Russian community here in Cincinnati - because a couple enterprising folks made it out of the Soviet Union in the 80's, then sponsored a cousin, who brought his brother, who brought his parents, etc., etc...is that how this is working?

If there is any relationship, by the way, I suspect the causality is reversed - that a community grows up somewhere and impacts the politics, not that the politics in any way impacts the initial immigration.  I could be wrong, but I'd love to see something more than assertions on the subject...

yeah i agree with monte. keep in mind there was no mexican population in nw ohio/toledo of any note when i was there in the late 80's other than the rural seasonal migrant workers. the mex population is growing because number one for whatever reasons the mexican pop in the entire usa is growing like mad. so people tend to first immigrate where others have gone before, so nw ohio makes sense. i'd imagine at first it was the migrant workers choosing to stick around (i.e., i knew a few who did and got jeep jobs). also i dk maybe there is some spillover from chicago/detroit.

 

still, this has nothing to do with local toledo politics or alleged racist perceptions of other areas of the state (on that i doubt immigrants are that micro-aware) --- for our neighbor country mexicans especially it's all about jobs jobs jobs and rumors of jobs. so if anything project economically healthier regions like cinci and columbus to get a lot more hispanic peeps and any other ethnic immigration than nw ohio or the rest of ohio in the near future, from reading the news on this site i can see it is happening already.

 

ps -- i have not heard boo about any immigration in ne ohio at all lately since the russian jew migration of a few years ago dropped off. is there news of any new ethnic groups coming to cleveburbialand in any numbers?

 

 

 

I guess I should weigh in here as my partner is a latino (chicano, actually)....

 

Dayton did not have a very large latino community here when he moved here in 1988.  In fact people mistook him for Italian, and during the first Iraq war he was berated by someone on a bus for being an arab. 

 

What latino community that was here was probably proffessionals of various types, like the Indian community is now.  That was our experience or impression when we went to a Hispanic awards dinner (at the invitation of a Urugayan coworker of his).

 

The "immigrant" lower-wage latino in-migration seems to be a newer thing here...

...and it seems tied to migrant labor.  Toledo has that latino barrio, but it is also the center of a big produce area (including a Campbells Soup plant in Naploeon), which uses migrant farm workers....I know latinos in Sacramento where aware of this because one asked my about "Napoleon" (I guess it sounded exotic).

 

....this migrant farm labor thing -->transitioning to urban jobs (like in construction) probably accounts for Kentuckly becomeing more and more latino...in the farm towns and now also in Louisville and Lexington.

 

@@@@@

 

I do notice something, though, about Latinos in "El Norte" (the Midwest)...they seem to be gravitating to the upper Midwest.  Even smaller cities like Kenosha, Michigan City and South Bend, the Quad Cities, and the Chicago sattelite cities (think "Hamilton") are getting latino neighborhoods.  As are larger cities like Milwaulkee...which has a developing barrio on the south side.  You really dont see a lot of latinos in SW Ohio the way you do up around the Great Lakes coast.

 

@@@@

 

For an interesting discussion of Latinos in the cities (from a bit of marxist pespective, try this book...by the ever-controversial Mike Davis.

 

 

...a review here:

Magical Urbanism

 

"This demographic explosion has ongoing impact on the design of major U.S. cities. Davis contends that Hispanics (who prize home-owning and frequently merge mortgages across multiple owners to achieve it) are bringing redemptive energy to neglected and worn-out spaces in the core of our cities. Latinos “exult in playgrounds, parks, squares, libraries and other endangered species of U.S. space and, thus, form one of the most important constituencies for the preservation of our urban commons.” They glory in plazas and open mercados. Yet they face severe restrictions from zoning ordinances and building codes that favor developers more than individual homeowners and discourage street vendors. In several cities, revitalized by the Hispanic invasion, neighboring Anglos have complained of ‘Un-American hues’ in Hispanic homes and shops, with their tropical pastels and colorful murals."

 

Probably the best Midwestern example of the latino transformation of a city is my own Chicago..it is a site to behold..how this immigration has impacted the city....Little Villiage  and Pilsen are probably the best known examples (drive down Calle Veinteseises , 26th Street, on a Saturday to see how intense this is ).....and one can see this elsewhere in the city too.

 

Though..Chicago has alot of immigration from all over, too.  Even Europeans...the Poles have once again become a very big immigrant community..the city is probably more Polish now than it was when I was living there. Though there was immigratiion in dribs & drabs during the Communist era (with a spike during the Gierek era in the 1970s) Chicago's Polish community was on its way to assimilation before this big new influx after the fall of the iron curtain).

 

 

@@@@

 

- because a couple enterprising folks made it out of the Soviet Union in the 80's, then sponsored a cousin, who brought his brother, who brought his parents, etc., etc...is that how this is working?

 

Yes,thats called chain migration, and thats how immigrant communities grow in the US.  I know thats how my mother got here, via relatives of relatives who immigrated to Chicago after WWI.    And thats probably how you will see the latino community grow in Ohio. 

 

 

 

 

I say come to Cincinnati's West Side and enjoy good solid housing at good prices!

 

LOL...no no...come to Dayton!!!  Dayton needs all the people it can get!

 

 

As for tolerance, it seems that many view southern Ohio as hostile and not accepting of diversity in a larger sense (and I agree somewhat with this thought based on who I know from the Greater Dayton and Nati, and Southeast Ohio). I think a lot of it has to do with the "Big Red Machine" working its magic on Southern Ohio and a lack of powerful minorities in politics. It's kind of like Harvey Milk in San Francisco. It takes a very influential minority to really affect the dynamics of a city. And when I say "influential" I mean that straight white people in the suburbs and wealthier areas actually take them seriously. Toledo's Harvey Milk was Louis Escobar. He is openly gay and Latino, and serves as city council president.

 

Excellent post.  That Louis Escobar can get elect, and whats more stay elected (and move into positions of leadership) does say a lot about the political culture, and perhaps the level of tolerance and acceptance in Toledo.  The city did get a bad press due to the recent riot, but beyond that, this political fact of someone like Escobar being able to survive politcally does provide an alternative impression of Toledo for me....

 

 

 

My take is pretty simple.  A strong economy attracts people, and it attracts people of all backgrounds if it's strong enough.  A growing Hispanic population will be an effect of Ohio's growth, not the cause of it.

My take is pretty simple.  A strong economy attracts people, and it attracts people of all backgrounds if it's strong enough.  A growing Hispanic population will be an effect of Ohio's growth, not the cause of it.

 

You see, Grasscat, it's responses like this that make you an Admin! ;)

^otoh, if you can somehow actively court immigration via publicity or however, the state economy will grow and diversify as well. immigration to america in and of itself builds the economy. it's a two-way street, a good economy yes attracts people, but also the immigrants themselves build up the economy.

 

for local examples, look at the thriving somali cab biz in columbus that spread to cleveland. or the new mega pan-hispanic grocery/tortilla factory that opened in lorain this summer (and has already taken over much of the ne ohio tortilla business). they all started from scratch!

 

immigrants are generally highly motivated and new blood would be nothing but good for ohio economically and otherwise -- it's nothing to sit back and be passive about. the process of bringing in new peoples could be actively courted by local and state politicos, business leaders and religious/ethnic organizations.

 

for local examples, look at the thriving somali cab biz in columbus that spread to cleveland. or the new mega pan-hispanic grocery/tortilla factory that opened in lorain this summer (and has already taken over much of the ne ohio tortilla business). they all started from scratch!

 

immigrants are generally highly motivated and new blood would be nothing but good for ohio economically and otherwise -- it's nothing to sit back and be passive about. the process of bringing in new peoples could be actively courted by local and state politicos, business leaders and religious/ethnic organizations.

 

These immigrants do seem to be pretty entrepeneurial, which is a good thing as one of the engines of job growth is supposed to be small buisnesses and new buisinesses...

I have yet to meet a single person with any ties to migrant workers. Most are Mexican families from Chicago or Cubans. They are not from Detroit and they are not from the farms of Northwest Ohio or Southeast Michigan

 

Thats interesting as one might infer a cause and effect relationship between the latino farmworkers in Toledos' hinterland and the urban latino community in Toledo itself.  Yet you seem to be saying there is a city-to-city migration going on in re Toledo...Chicago being the source.

 

The Chicago area was probably the one first places the Latinos came to in the Midwest...the earliest communities where in the Calumet Region.... East Chicago and Indiana Harbor...they date from when these areas where steel mill districts...from the 1920s.  In the 1950s/60s the Puerto Ricans came, and settled in Humbodlt Park and the Milwaulkee Avenue cooridor, and a bit on the N Side (before the area was gentrified).

 

I think the earliest urban latino community in Ohio was in Lorain, as its mentioned in the 1930s WPA "Ohio Guide".

 

 

 

Oh, where to begin...

 

Colday, my point is that something other than economy is bringing people to northern Ohio. It's not as simple as "it's the economy, stupid." Greater Toledo and Cleveland have weak economies, certainly weaker than Greater Cincy or Columbus. There are not many job oppurtunities in Toledo and Lucas County, that's for sure. Metro Toledo's Latino population also did not come from migrant workers contrary to popular belief.

 

You neglected to mention something.  Toledo area is a large agricultural area.  Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton, Akron, and Cleveland are not almost entirely surrounded by good soils and agragarian fields.  Toledo's position near Detroit (who has a wonderful Mexican community in which, yes, Toledo DOES have influence from) and agragarian roots in NW Ohio appeal to Mexicans.  It is all about economics; it's just economics have different fashions.

 

That may be true in other parts of Northwest Ohio, but metro Toledo's Latino community is a recent addition to the metro. There were hardly any Latinos in 1980. There is a serious amount of immigration right now in all parts of the metro. Most I know come from other countries or Chicago.

 

Now ask yourself...why?  Why would a Mexican family want to move to TOLEDO, OHIO?  Well...let's see.  Jobs in the "fields"... is certainly possible.  Perhaps the connection between Chicago and Detroit, two largely Hispanic Midwest cities.  Did I mention agricultural roots?

 

When I graduated my high school in 2003, there were only 30 or 40 Latinos in the whole school (out of 1200 students). When my brother graduated in 2005 that number was well over 100. That's a huge difference for just two years. South Toledo, Maumee, and Monclova are having the most growth right now, and I have yet to meet a single person with any ties to migrant workers. Most are Mexican families from Chicago or Cubans.

 

Cubans?  Oy.  My high school I believe had over 200 Hispanics and I graduated in 2001.  Relevancy of that, I have no idea.

 

They are not from Detroit and they are not from the farms of Northwest Ohio or Southeast Michigan.

 

They were certainly a big factor for Mexican families moving to Toledo (as the surrounding countryside might have other families in which they knew previously before; or they have relatives and/or friends in Detroit).  Why the hell else would they move to TOLEDO, OHIO?  Their social stances on unionization?  Hardly.

 

Toledo and Lucas County are an economic and moral wreck. There is no way that "family values" supporting Latinos are coming to a county where the economy reeks like it does in Lucas. I think we are near rock bottom NATIONWIDE for economic growth. The people of Lucas County hardly espouse any family values or such nonsense. I guess having such high rates of AIDS, drug dealing, and Bloods and Crips chapters numbering in the hundreds is attractive to religious people?

 

That is precisely my point.  It has nothing to do with "morals" or "politics."  It's all about the money.

 

I would wager Toledo has the some of the worst morals of any large metro in Ohio (being so close to Bowling Green doesn't help).

 

I'd put Dayton and Columbus over Toledo, on that one.  Dixie Avenue alone...oy...

 

It's even in the wealthier suburbs. As far as I know, the wealthiest and most conservative parts of Greater Cincy and Dayton do not have strip joints, Asian spas, and whore houses. In Toledo, they do.

 

Incorrect, sorry, Toledo is no exception.  Diamonds is one of Ohio's most prestigious strip clubs and it's smack in the middle of suburban Centerville, a decently "wealthy" suburb that is moderately conservative.  Springboro had one for awhile; blah blah.  Then again, I don't see Ottawa Hills having "whore houses" and such (unless it's by UT)...

 

Think beyond the notion that Toledo is a typical rust belt city. It's done things that other similar cities have not. Louis Escobar represents this to the fullest. I'm not saying that the political power of Latinos in Lucas County is everything to do with it, but probably it plays a big role. I'd like to ask you this: Would you rather settle in a city where blacks hold political power or one where such things are rare or never happen?

 

Neither.  I'd pick the city that has power given to all of its residents.  And Toledo isn't a city where blacks don't hold political power; they make up over 30% of the city (as the majority of blacks in Metro Toledo are well within Toledo city limits).  So Toledo ain't "different" than any other Ohio city in that regard.

 

Like I said, something other than jobs or "family values" are bringing people to Lucas County, because we suck major ass in those departments.

 

Look around Toledo for a second.  What do you see?  What is across from the mosque off I-75/475?  Hmm...gee...I wonder what is attracting them.  And to take it a step futher...it's clear that the Mexican community in Toledo has a presence...so why wouldn't they "tell their friends" and set up shop?  They did it in west Cincinnati, west Columbus, west Cleveland...oueste baby!

 

But really, Delta, Defiance, Sandusky, etc. are the places related to agriculture. You will see barrios there of familes who are all connected to agriculture in some form. There is a long history of Latinos (much longer than Toledo's) in the argicultural parts of Northwest Ohio.

 

Bingo.  And guess where Toledo is?  It ain't Central Ohio...

 

And just so you know, my comment about Southern Ohio (not just Dayton) is based only on experience. I've done diversity seminars down here and in Toledo and there some very noticeable differences in the kind of racist comments I hear. It's great if you haven't experienced this, and I hope you never have to. I also have never been called a "honky" in Toledo, but have heard it in Cincinnati. To me, that sounds like there could be more racial tension. Like I said, I've seen things all over southern Ohio (with the worst in Southeast, not Greater Dayton or Cincy) that I haven't seen in Toledo. Maybe just bad luck on my part, but the fact I've spent most of my life in the Toledo area makes me think there could be a difference.

 

Toledo is one of the VERY few cities (none in Ohio, actually, besides Toledo...okay...and Belpre once) I've ever been to where somebody has actually called me a "nigger."  Not "nigga" or "nigger" in a joking form, but "nigger" as in "get the hell out."  It was on my trip back from my job in Detroit on I-75 near the "wonderful" Jeep Factory.  Now am I going to sit here and stereotype Toledo because I was called a "nigger?"  No.  I'm not a twit.  But I also know that people's viewpoints can change due to what they've seen and such.  I naturally presumed (after the incident) that Toledo was some backwater town with racists (and talking to my friends from Toledo and "Fo-town" [Fostoria, apprently], Toledo isn't "good" for blacks) and ignoramaces.  Hell, I even went to a meeting here at OSU to talk about "Racism in Northwest Ohio" with three Libby High School graduates (why did I go?  Free pizza).  Now again, am I going to sit here and say Toledo is Ohio's most racist city?  Deep down inside, I certainly feel that (from what I've heard and experienced first-hand) but in reality (or superficially), no.  Racism is everywhere and no where in Ohio has exceptions. 

 

Nowhere.

 

All right, so Toledo hates Nazis and has a gang problem.

 

Take it further.  "Toledo has Nazis and has a gang problem with angry black members."  That isn't exactly something to be proud of.

As a Hispanic (Puerto Rican) in Ohio, it has been interesting to watch the Latino population grow locally and around the state.

 

As far as the original topic goes, I'm going to signore most of the posts, as they've degenerated into a "you're wrong, no you're wrong" squabble, but I will say that Grasscat's response...

 

A strong economy attracts people, and it attracts people of all backgrounds if it's strong enough.  A growing Hispanic population will be an effect of Ohio's growth, not the cause of it.

 

...answers the question best.

 

Hispanics will continue to migrate to Ohio as long as the opportunity remains present, and those that currently reside in Ohio are successful in establishing working lives in the state, as they will recommend others move here.

 

My own take on the issue is somewhat different, since as a person of Puerto Rican descent, the vast majority of Puerto Rican immigration stateside happened decades ago, and most ended up settling in the Cleveland, Youngstown and Dayton areas. Currently, the vast majority of Hispanics entering Ohio appear to be Mexican, with the majority settling in Columbus and Toledo. Central and South Americans seem to be partial to the Cincinnati area though can be found really in just about every major metro area in Ohio. I definitely think its a demographic that can help Ohio's major cities thrive, but cultivating a large Hispanic population alone won't be the solution to a declining population.

Of course Toledo's first Latinos were migrant as Lucas County used to have much more of an agriculture, but today- no way does farming bring Latinos to Lucas (Wood possibly). Almost 2/3 of Toledo MSA is Lucas County. Toledo hardly had any migrant workers compared to other parts of Northwest Ohio, sorry. They are coming from all over, not just farms in Northwest Ohio- many are from other countries entirely.

 

I don't think you are getting what I'm saying.  They aren't coming FROM the farms in Northwest Ohio.  They are coming to Northwest Ohio for the FARMS.

 

Like I said, it's NOT all about economics. How the hell can you prove economics are bringing Latinos to Lucas County? Like I said, the economy is a joke, and THERE are hardly any jobs left in the agricultural industry in Lucas County. The agricultural stuff is going away fast. Besides the fact agriculture doesn't bring immigrants today like it used to. "Jobs in the fields"- you have to be kidding? That's a pretty weird stereotype for urban immigrants.

 

Have you ever heard of the term "commuting?"  There is an area of Columbus called Lincoln Village in which landscapers (mostly Mexicans from Oaxaca) go to the surrounding communities and rural areas to landscape.  Ditto with the Mexican population near Grove City helping out farms.  They don't LIVE in the rural areas of Northwest Ohio (nor do they have to; though Toledo can be rural too :D) but simply can WORK in them, which is relatively close in distance from the city.

 

Your argument would work if Toledo actually had a sizable Latino population in 1980 (back when there was more agriculture), but it didn't. Most have come since 1990, well after agriculture started leaving Lucas County. This new population is largely first generation, not second and third generation migrant families. Now of course today since a large barrio has been established, that has accelerated growth. I don't think there is much connection between Toledo's Latino areas and the farms of the Delta or Defiance area.

 

Again, re-read what I said above.  I'm not saying ALL the Mexicans that live in Toledo (or even the majority) work on a farm.  I'm saying the reason that BROUGHT them to Toledo WERE because of agricultural opportunities (which Metro Toledo STILL has plenty of, using your "Toledo doesn't sprawl that much" arguement from a previous thread).

 

And yes, Ottawa Hills has smut just so you know. UT does of course factor into it. btw, a strip joint is much different from an Asian spa :-D

 

Yes, I know.  Even Springfield has Asian spas.

 

My point about political power is simple. Lucas County has a ton of powerful Latino politicians- some other places in Ohio do not. We also have many powerful Arabs and of course blacks too. This is damn important to local minorities, regardless of where they're from. It's a lot like Harvey Milk in San Francisco. It takes leaders like this to solidify a community. I would wager that Lucas County's large Arab community is related to this too. The powerful politicians that are Arab and Latino represent acceptance by the white majority. I feel that DOES make a difference. Why would any Arab or Latino immigrant want to settle in a county with a terrible economy unless they knew they had just as good a chance of getting what's left as the white people do?

 

What on earth?  Acceptance becasue they are in a community?  Hardly.  In some cases, it's forced (re: New York's harsh institution in the 1950s, where blacks were in the gov't yet only because they had a powerful say in Manhattan's Uptown).  One can live in a city of the most diverse population yet still not be a very "accepting" place (in some cases, it can backfire into anger; case in point today, Paris).  I'm not saying "lily-white > diversity;" not by any means; I'm saying acceptance does not equate with "who's in politics."  The reason why Mexicans (I wouldn't say Latinos, because Latinos is a more broad definition; we are mostly talking about Mexicans) and Arabs would move to Lucas County over, say, Auglaize, would be because of the historical ties to that group.  Much like Bosnians in St. Louis; or Somalis in Columbus; etc.  Is St. Louis "accepting" simply because it has a Bosnian population greater than most cities?  No.  But it does mean that Bosnians that are looking for places in the US to settle will probably look at St. Louis moreso than other cities, due to the numbers. It's almost self-segregating, to an extent.  Interesting.

 

The whole acceptance thing. It DOES take the support of the white majority (almost 75% of Lucas County) to elect these minorities to positions of power. I ask you this: Would San Francisco be as inviting to gays had there never been a Harvey Milk? Again, I bring up the importance of Louis Escobar (or Judge Flores, Sherrif Telb, etc.)

 

Is it acceptance or is it really politics?  I mean, do the white people in Lucas County REALLY give a damn if Joe Asim is Arab?  Would it matter more if he were a Democrat?  Race takes a backseat to politics or political views, in times.  The point being, acceptance isn't really the issue, as I'm sure there have been racists in the South that have voted for Republican blacks...I'm talking to you Alabama...

 

It's always easy to say "it's all about the money," but that's very shallow and simplistic.

 

Much like your essays on southern Ohio and "Toledo having the ____ in Ohio?"  Right.

 

There are many more factors. In Lucas County, it is not about money, but about acceptance and power. If it was outright about moving to a place where jobs were readily available, Lucas County's foreign-born population should be close to 0%.

 

Again.  Again.  and Again.  Lucas County is near/in agragarian rich fields.  Thus, it was an initial attraction for Mexicans.  Nothing to do with "acceptance or power."  They just GAINED it because they were able to settle and establish their own community.  Much like blacks in the early 20's moving to northern cities.

 

Nice stereotype.

 

Why thank you. 

 

You obviously didn't follow the local media coverage afterwards. Guess what? there were a lot of whites arrested. White gang members in Vistula and LaGrange were quoted numerous times saying the riot was supported by almost everyone in these integrated ghettos.

 

So Toledo embraces all races when it comes to gangs.  How...umm...Detroit.

 

Of course many national news outlets tried their damndest to avoid showing this (they need to scare white suburbanites). In general though, the Bloods and Crips of North Toledo are indeed mostly black. What's amazing is that there was such a multi-ethnic support of the riot in Toledo despite being led by black gangs. Not a single Nazi there was even from Toledo!! They came from Virginia.

 

Ah, but the question is...WHY did they come to Toledo from Virginia (if they were all from Virginia)?  What made Toledo on their radar?  The ethnic melting pot of Northwest Ohio?  Riiiiight.  The quoted "gang problems" of Toledo?  Hmmm...

 

The general consensus of everyone (especially whites) in Toledo was "Let's shank these fuckers."

 

That would be the consensus of everyone in EVERY Ohio city over 80,000 (ok...so Parma...dunno...).

 

People rioted because of the police "protecting" the Nazis when all anyone wanted to do was beat them. There are some very funny pictures online of black Toledo police officers standing in front of the 8 Nazis to prevent their beating. You can imagine what kind of anger this caused in a 16-year-old Crip.

 

Sounds like one big love fest.  They should've stayed at home.

 

And I of course did not stereotype Nati based on that one incident. It took getting to know hundreds of people in the area to see the broader picture. I learned everything about Ohio's regional divides from running diversity seminars. The attitude differences from different parts of the state are AMAZING. Like I've said before, the microcosm of America.

 

Yes, ditto.  I've heard many opinions and such as well.  I've even HOSTED seminars dealing with racism in the state of Ohio and believe me, Toledo is no acception when dealing with racism.  Again, the whole state deals with the same shit.  Only blind boosterism would show "attitude differences in different parts of the state."  The WHOLE state of Ohio has an attitude, which we all need to correct.

 

BTW, Northwest Ohio outside of metro Toledo is VERY racist. It also is conservative and red to the bone. Luckily, over half of Northwest Ohio's population is in metro Toledo.

 

Metro Toledo was one of the most racist metropolitan areas I've ever experienced.  I actually saw no difference between Metro Toledo and, say, Lima.  Then again, Lima is hood as hell...but hey...I'm just making stereotypes, right?

And for something to think about, conservative, backwater Kansas and Oklahoma have a sizable Mexican population and are not growing.  Declining.  Gone, even.  Yet they still have a sizable Mexican and are probably increasing in size.  Now why is that?  WHY is "conservative" Kansas beating, say, multi-ethnic Toledo haven, which is just as job-loss prone and just as dead, in Mexican numbers? 

 

Gee by golly, I don't know ColDayMan! 

This thread elswehere at Urban Ohio is probably relevant:

 

legislation against illegal immigrants @ the state and county level

 

While economics is a pull factor, don't discount a  conservative political climate that uses the police power of the state to discourage immigration...they say illegal immigration, but if this means police hassling anyone who looks illegal, well....

 

 

The whole acceptance thing. It DOES take the support of the white majority (almost 75% of Lucas County) to elect these minorities to positions of power. I ask you this: Would San Francisco be as inviting to gays had there never been a Harvey Milk? Again, I bring up the importance of Louis Escobar (or Judge Flores, Sherrif Telb, etc.)

Is it acceptance or is it really politics?  I mean, do the white people in Lucas County REALLY give a damn if Joe Asim is Arab?  Would it matter more if he were a Democrat?  Race takes a backseat to politics or political views, in times.  The point being, acceptance isn't really the issue, as I'm sure there have been racists in the South that have voted for Republican blacks...I'm talking to you Alabama...

 

I wouldn't compare Escobar to Harvey Milk too much, as the political situations where pretty different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and I will not be responding to this thread again.  Why bother?

Columbus, along with Minneapolis, I believe was designated by the federal government to accept Somali refugees fleeing the country. Only in the Northland area of Columbus does the Somali population really have any clout, as they seem to have congregated in that area.

This is slightly off-topic but this past weekend in Athens I was witness to the first racially malicious incident I've been witness to in a long time.  I was at a lame party on the balcony above Baron's Men's Shop with a group of people, including one of my friend's friend's, who is Indian.  He is an Athens native, the son of a professor and has no accent.  Anyway some idiot walked off the balcony with his girlfriend but before heading down the steps turned to this guy and said "Has anyone told you you look like Kumar?".  The Indian guy said square back to him "Yeah I get that all the time".  He hadn't been talking to him earlier and didn't know him at all.  This came out of nowhere.  I was only half paying attention and it took me a second to realize what just happened.  Well the guy and his girlfriend left and the girlfriend had one of those looks on her faces of girls who fear their boyfriends/husbands.  I couldn't believe how well the Indian guy came back from that.  He didn't let it ruin his night.  I would have gone after the guy with a couple of the other guys (although these guys were generally a bunch of wusses I was with and my back's messed up right now) if he had wanted us to but he totally shrugged it off.  I thought the incident was pretty significant because even though it was just an insult, that stuff almost never happens amongst college students, even when drunk.  He was drunk and I think it was his subconscious speaking. 

 

I was talking to a mixed girl once when I was really drunk (what one of my friends used to call having my sway on) and asked her if her mom or her dad was black and she got so offended she walked out of the bar (Lucky's) and hasn't talked to me since.  I was just making conversation and it either came across the wrong way or she's really sensitive about it.  Obviously when you aren't messed up you have better judgement of what to talk about and how to talk about it.  But this dude last weekend was intentionally malicious, no doubt about it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^I'm not seeing what you are getting at. I didn't see Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, so maybe that is why I don't have a clue.

hmmm.

 

my funny perspective in this thread is how even today lorain has an equivalent total pop of latinos as toledo or columbus --- even funnier since lorain has lost like 30k since my day and the others of course are quite large cities. damn rusty factories were good for something besides firey red skys and orange soot all over the house!

 

but really the topper and funniest of all is reading and eating my leftover tamal y pollo con morros y cristos.  :laugh:

 

Here is something that heckles found out about immigration. from SP.

 

 

Here's a few metro areas to look at statistically.

 

Houston, TX:

http://www.censusscope.org/us/m3360/chart_race.html

 

As you can see, only 45,000 of the 1 million people who settled in Houston were caucasian between 1990-2000. Barely 120,000 were african american. The vast majority are hispanics which are primarily immigrants.

 

The "old south" region with cities like Charlotte, Atlanta are growing less because of immigration, but the trends are still there:

 

Charlotte, NC:

http://www.censusscope.org/us/m1520/chart_race.html

 

As you can see, fully 60,000 of Charlotte's growth over the past decade was hispanic in nature, which is a good portion.

 

Atlanta, GA:

http://www.censusscope.org/us/m520/chart_race.html

 

When you look at Atlanta a great deal of its increase in population (over 1/3rd) is hispanic in nature.

 

Tampa, FL:

http://www.censusscope.org/us/m8280/chart_race.html

 

Same situation, only hispanic immigration counted for roughly half the total growth.

 

Not all hispanic numbers are clear, its true a number of the hispanic population has been born here and moved elsewhere in the nation, but its still predominantly immigration at this point.

 

If these numbers are any indication, Pittsburgh is not growing because of lack of immigration incentive.

 

The best example is Chicago.

 

http://www.censusscope.org/us/m1600/chart_race.html

 

Chicago grew almost entirely because of hispanic immigration, and in fact caucasian numbers dropped between 1990-2000.

 

Pittsburgh would be better served by setting up foreign business marketing in places such as Asia, Eastern Europe, and Latin America to promote itself outside our own boundaries. Maybe the city should bargain to bring several foreign consulate offices to the city and setup marketing shops in cities like Santiago, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Shanghai, Tokyo, Moscow, Cape Town, etc.

 

This is why very successful cities like Toronto are what they are - they are immigration points.

Pittsburgh would be better served by setting up foreign business marketing in places such as Asia, Eastern Europe, and Latin America to promote itself outside our own boundaries. Maybe the city should bargain to bring several foreign consulate offices to the city and setup marketing shops in cities like Santiago, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Shanghai, Tokyo, Moscow, Cape Town, etc.

 

This is why very successful cities like Toronto are what they are - they are immigration points.

 

 

100% agree. cleveland had these embassy annexes, but they have closed up shop and left. strive to publicize, build new ties, and get them back! you betcha jackson needs to make some productive international road trips during his new administration.

There is no "historical" Latino community in Toledo. We are talking about something that happened after 1990.

 

You keep saying that - do you have any documentation to back that up?

 

I went hunting for some historical data, and have found this, from the 1990 census.  Lucas County's population was 462,361; its Hispanic population was 15,658.  That's a 3.39% Latino population.  In 2000, it was 4.50% of 450K, which is 20,300ish, about 4,600 more people.

 

Yes, the community has grown, by 33% - but to say the community materialized after 1990 is just false.

 

I pulled down the census's .pdf's on 1980 data, but they don't divide race by MSA, far as I could see.  However, the total Hispanic population in Ohio was 120,002 in 1980, compared with 139,696 in 1990 - it grew by 16% between those two years.  If you'd like to assert that Toledo grew at a significantly faster rate than the rest of the state, I'd be interested to see how you know that - but I haven't seen any numbers to back that up.

 

So, let me make a list:

1) You asserted, without any citations, that Southwest Ohio was less diverse than Northwest Ohio - that wasn't true.

2) You asserted, without any citations, that Toledo's Latino community is a 1990's/2000's phenomenon - that wasn't true.

3) You asserted, without any citations, that Toledo's economy is in the shitter, that there are no jobs there.  With an unemployment rate of 6.5%, that's hardly in the shitter.  Historically, it's not fantastic, but we're not talking about a dustbowl here.

 

So, following all of this, you assert that it's the political climate that has caused Toledo's Hispanic population to boom, without either giving a citation or explaining a plausible mechanism by which that works.  Meanwhile, ColDay's been saying that folks move where they can find work and feed their families, and you say that's too simplistic.  Fine - but please don't be surprised if some folks don't find your arguments persuasive...

Just a statistical point of order....

 

Oklahoma grew 2.1% between 2000 and 2004. Kansas grew 1.7% over the same 4-year period. Ohio grew .9%!!!!!

 

You probably need to look at the raw numbers here as well as a percentage.  Ohio is much more populous than either of the other two states.

 

 

Wow, I hadn't even read these when I wrote the post above:

 

Toledo's Hispanic population almost doubled over the last ten years, and is accelerating.

 

Citation, please?  It may be true, but it would mean a 75% jump in the last five years of those years - it would mean going from an annual growth rate of 2.6% during the 1990's to an annual growth rate of 12%!!!  Could be true, but I'm not going to take it on faith based on your assertion.

 

I said before that Northwest Ohio has places with just as high percentage if not higher percentage of Latinos as Lucas, but their growth rate is not the same.

 

Citation, please?  It may well be that their growth rates are not the same, but I'd love to see some statitics, not just assertions.

 

I'm not trying to be a snot here, but you've been dead wrong way too many times in this thread already for me to take your assertions as facts.

I guess I read this as indicating we southerners were less diverse:

As for tolerance, it seems that many view southern Ohio as hostile and not accepting of diversity in a larger sense (and I agree somewhat with this thought based on who I know from the Greater Dayton and Nati, and Southeast Ohio). I think a lot of it has to do with the "Big Red Machine" working its magic on Southern Ohio and a lack of powerful minorities in politics.

 

But perhaps I read something into that.  I guess reading that Cincinnati is hostile to diversity (without any evidence, again) led me to the unintended conclusion that it was less diverse.  But regardless, what about the other points?

Dude, come on already.  You said Cincinnati is hostile to diversity; since your argument has been that Latinos move to politically welcoming environments, I took it to mean you thought Cincinnati was less diverse, which we both agree is not the case.  Piling up evidence of its supposed hostility to diversity is a bit beside the point.

 

So, would you care to address the other, unambiguously false assertions you've made?  You've dodged them at least twice now...

I guess reading that Cincinnati is hostile to diversity (without any evidence, again)

 

Look, I don't want to bring up the racial profiling, lack of gay support, etc. in that city. I also don't want to bring up the "accidental" deaths of blacks at the hands of police officers or the deaths of police officers at the hands of black youths. It's too negative and too tragic- especially what's said in local media. Much of what's been printed by Cincinnati media is very slanted and negative. I've read some horrible stuff on the Enquirer site from locals.

 

If you really want me to though, I will.

 

 

 

*One jab in, since it's almost too easy*

 

Yes, coming from Toledo, the land of Neo-Nazi marchers, Detroit Jr. syndromes, segregated neighborhoods, and statehood insecurities.

 

*Leaves to go to Red Robin*

Neo-Nazi marchers? wtf. Eight people from outside the city come to talk to the Bloods and Crips and suddenly we're "the land of neo-Nazi marchers." HILARIOUS.

 

Detroit Junior?

 

And there  you go with that segregation bullshit!

 

What's the per capita income of a white man in metro Cincy compared to a black man?

 

Cincinnati has had one of the highest African-American median incomes for Midwest metropolitan areas since the 80's.  Any stat will show that; just look it up on Google.com (for reference). For example:

 

Forest Park has proved a magnet for middle-class African-Americans. The northern Hamilton County suburb became majority black during the 1990s, and black residents there earn a median household income of $51,330, more than the typical white's income of $48,237.

www.enquirer.com (2003)

 

Toledo doesn't even have income to begin with as your two tallest builldings will soon be scrap metel for a house in Oakland County, Michigan.  So please, don't bring up the "income" shit.  And of course I don't have to bring up the segregation bullshit, as I've already bitchslapped you in the last thread concerning that.

 

And you bring up police beatings and such, are you aware that that was ALSO minreported and overexaggerated, much like Toledo's riot?  You DO realize that was the point of my jab, right?  To play media exploitations.  Just like Ohio's supposed lack of diversity.

 

River Viewer, I'm just offering a reason other than "money" for attracting Latinos. What have you done to prove otherwise? Can you prove that having powerful Latino leaders doesn't attract Latinos? Of course not.

 

This isn't about Cincy or Toledo. This is about the Great Lakes compared to the "south". Why are more Latinos settling in cities like Chicago, Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee and not as much in Cincy, Columbus, or more economically healthy areas. Why does Cleveland have so many Latinos and Akron so little. Is there much a difference in economics there?

 

Your first two sentences are nothing more than conjecture, so I won't address them. As far as the Cleveland compared to Akron comparison goes, Cleveland can trace just about all its Hispanic roots to the migration of Puerto Ricans to the area several decades ago (i.e. this happened a long time ago). As far as why they settled in greater Cleveland, one could probably assume it was because of Cleveland's burgeoning economy AT THE TIME (i.e. not now).

 

Toledo can more than likely attribute its large Latino (Mexican) population, like I already said, to the fact that the area is surrounded primarily by farmland, as migrant workers are very attracted to these areas. Toledo's highway access (I-80 and I-75, giving it easy proximity to large Mexican centers like Chicago and Detroit), also could very well be a large factor.  So please, don't bring that "why aren't the Mexicans coming to Cinci-Columbus-Dayton-Coshocton" shit.  It's like asking why Bosnians aren't moving to Flint, Michigan.

>Oh my God, I live right behind Baron's. This was Saturday, right? I walked by the party on my way out.

 

Well those guys have a party seemingly every day up there.  I would too if I lived there. 

 

>One of my best friends is Indian and got the Kumar comments all the time last year during our frat parties. The funny thing is, he WAS Kumar. His voice sounded exactly like Kumar's

 

This dude doesn't look anything like Kumar. 

 

>I get racial shit non-stop in Athens. You should see the looks I get when I walk home with a black girl.

 

There are black girls in Athens?!

 

>Cops have actually stopped their cars and just glared.

 

Well if you're walking home with a girl around 2 you're going to get stared at in general, if not honked at and cheered on by people on porches. 

 

>Halloween pissed me off too. I went as the Prince of Saudi Arabia and heard a lot of the "Sand nigger" comments. Athens doesn't come off as very accepting compared to some other college towns. Alcohol is a BIG part of this. The racial comments fly when people get wasted. Some are just funny like the ever popular "Fuck yo' couch, nigga" taken from Dave Chappelle, but many times people pry too much into racial things. I've seen many parties where people treat any black kid they meet as the authority on "black" culture.

 

^That seems the roll of any black person in a mostly white setting.  It comes back the other way too. 

 

 

>At parties, I've noticed other things too. More than on one occasion I've been called a Jew. For some reason, a lot of people say I look like a blonde Jew and ask me if I'm Jewish (again people don't do this unless they're drunk). I always respond, "No, Lebanese-Irish, sorry to dissapoint you."

The best thing to do is just laugh stuff like this off. It's all about the context in which things are said. Many times kids don't understand what they are saying (they're too drunk). Tone of voice gives away intent for the most part, but then that old liquid courage can make things sound a lot meaner than they're meant to be.

 

I don't know what's going on at the parties you're at but we had no problems when I was an undergrad at UT and this is the first thing I've been witness to at OU in 3 years.  The first month I was here I heard an APD officer tell a racist joke in the barber shop (the one down by Import House) and so didn't go back.  My hair's now down to my waist.  I don't hear about almost anything bad when it comes to race relations at the bars and parties happening here at OU.  No matter what we're always picking and choosing what we've been witness to to form our opinions.  I'm not going to say the APD is racist or it isn't, because I've seen them pull some nasty tricks on white kids, but I definitely don't think that most white OU students have serious problems with race relations. 

 

 

 

:|

You to ColDay:

Your argument would work if Toledo actually had a sizable Latino population in 1980 (back when there was more agriculture), but it didn't. Most have come since 1990, well after agriculture started leaving Lucas County. This new population is largely first generation, not second and third generation migrant families.

 

That's not true.  "Most" have not come since 1990 - as of 2000, less than 25% of them had come since 1990.  You say his argument would work if the population was "sizable" in 1980, and best I can determine (see above posts), the 1980 population was probably about 2/3rds the size of the 2000 population.  That's plenty to be explained by agricultural immigration followed by chain immigration and natural population growth over 20 years - sounds to me like you're right, ColDay's argument works.

 

If you've got numbers disproving that (which is certainly possible - I don't have a Toledo MSA number for 1980, just a best inference from state growth, and a solid number for 1990), I'm all ears.

 

Look, people move for economic opportunity.  Once there, in an established community, they become a part of the community, even community leaders.  None of that is surprising, we've seen it all throughout our history, in every state and every city since the 1600's.  But asserting that Latinos came to Toledo since 1990, and for reasons of political acceptance - well, that's an interesting theory, but you've gotta give me something more than bald assertions to be convincing, that's all I'm saying.  And when your numbers are wrong, or at the very least suspect and unsupported (they've doubled in 10 years...they've mostly come since 1990...), you can't be surprised when I ask you to support your argument with something other than your assertions.

 

...especially when you assert things like this:

Sure it has a lot of Latinos compared to most of Ohio, but why Toledo first and not Cleveland or Lorain?

Lorain County blows Lucas County out of the water for Hispanic population.  In fact, as of the 2000 census, there were actually slightly more Latinos in Lorain County (20,308) than there were in Lucas County (20,279), despite the fact that Lorain County only has 2/3rds as many people as Lucas County (294K vs. 450K).

 

Really, it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, but you keep on talking.  Please, I'm not looking for much here, I'm just looking for some facts to back up your assertions, that's all.  Maybe show me how Toledo was more accepting during the primary time of Hispanic immigration.  Maybe show me why the immigration can't be explained by economic factors.  Maybe show me how "there are Latino's in power today" had any effect on immigration in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's and 1990's.

 

Or maybe show me any reason to believe that you don't first build an ethnic community, which then gains acceptance and eventually produces leaders; but rather, that you can create an atmosphere of acceptance first, make a few leaders second, and then attract the community.  Anything, please, help me out here...

^thank you, and i already said above that lorain today despite it's 1/3 population loss in this timeperiod still has about as many latinos as toledo and columbus....ah i am but a blip in this discussion!

 

off-topic detour - sorry: i am preping for a walk around harlem tomorrow (saturday) and a photo tour thread, any requests???

^show us some of the old crooknecks of NY.

I just got back from Florence? And i saw quite a few latins down there, even some new ones that just just moved here there Tenn. Wait let me break that down. I saw a couple of Mexicans and the Latino's from Tenn. you can kinda tell from the darker skin color that they were Mexican. Mexican's .Hispanic's and latin's seem to be the same race. But Latin's do not want to be generalized as being Hispanic or Mexican, from what i have read.

People are leaving Tennessee for Italy? Did you take any pics of Florence?

Ky silly..lol

I was just joshing you, the folks from Cleveland don't know Florence Y'all.

I live in Kansas City and I can't begin to tell you how receptive the people here are about latinos/ hispanics.  The population here on the Missouri and Kansas side are both growing  :?, and you couldn't believe the food varieties even super wal-mart and target have out here for the latino/ hispanic population.  Anyways, I do not want to get into politics but I have heard locals & latinos even say that they believe Ohio is a RED state ( whether that's good or bad i dont want to get in to)  Around this metro, which is growing so fast, most of the people say they elect "blue" officials ( I think Kansas & Missouri have either 1 democratic senator and/ or gov....but i'm not positive).  I think there is a misconception about Ohio in that it's not welcoming.  The hispanics here don't have much to say if not anything about Ohio.  In general, Ohio doesn't even appear on their radar.  Cleveland Indians is about the most I get out of the latinos here.  But about the question if Hispanics are key to Ohio's growth, I think people in general moving to Ohio is key to growth, I don't care what race or ethnicity [ I am Asian Indian].  The officials down in Columbus need to understand this & figure out a way to get the crowds moving here rather than the rest of America.

Check out this PDF that shows the increase of Hispanics in Ohio from 1990-2000.

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/atlas/censr01-111.pdf