SCPA project receives a boost

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jerry Stein

Post staff reporter

 

The Greater Cincinnati Arts Education Association said Thursday that it had raised enough money to meet its portion of the estimated $52 million needed to construct a new School for the Creative and Performing Arts in Over-the-Rhine.

Jan Leslie, communications chair for the all volunteer association, said she couldn't disclose the amount the group had raised. But previously, the Cincinnati Board of Education said the association had to raise half the cost of the project by this month for it to go forward as scheduled.

New arts school more than 90% funded

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Meagan Pollnow

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - Corporate donations helped the Greater Cincinnati Arts and Education Center raise more than 90 percent of the money needed to build a new arts school here - an integral piece of a redevelopment plan around Washington Park, the group announced this morning.

 

The private foundation raised more than $23 million for construction of the new School for Creative and Performing Arts, and an additional $3 million to establish an "artistic excellence" fund to attract world-class instructors and to pay for equipment.

I was going to post this today, but then I found that you already had posted it.

 

How did I miss it?

 

Anyway, I will add that I read today that it will take 12-18 months to design and put together the new plan and then probably another 2 years to build. So it looks like we're looking at 2007 at the earliest.

For some reason, channel 9 was reporting that construction would begin Monday. That can't be right since they are changing the site. Surely they will have to redesign it and there are bldgs. and lots that will need to be acquired. They did have a plan for the bldg. which was going to be next to Music Hall, but I assume that will now be discarded.

I didn't read through the whole article. Where in OTR is this going to be built?

This is great, $52million that sure is a high priced school I looked at the cincinnati public schools plan and that school by far is the most expensive.

I didn't read through the whole article. Where in OTR is this going to be built?

N of Central Parkway between Elm and Race. That is to say--just south of Washington Park.

Planned public arts school cost to escalate

Could increase $10M because of inflation, rising steel prices

 

By Jennifer Mrozowski

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

Construction costs for the planned Cincinnati public arts school in Over-the-Rhine are expected to increase by as much as $10 million, bringing the price tag of the district's biggest-budget school to an estimated $62 million.

 

School officials blamed inflation, rising steel prices and other construction costs.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050930/NEWS0102/509300385/1058/NEWS01

Planned public arts school cost to escalate

Could increase $10M because of inflation, rising steel prices

 

Meanwhile, the fund-raising group has pledged to raise an additional $5 million beyond the $26 million it has already committed.

 

"We would not have agreed to it if we had not thought it was feasible," Klinedinst said. "We want to see the school built."

 

The group has secured pledges and funding of $22 million, he said.

 

Some of us may have issues with their design, but I certainly congratulate them on raising so much in private funds for a public school.  Kudos.

 

I actually like this building, it fits better than what I was expecting. I didn't find any other rendering here grasscat, but I could have a bad eye.  :laugh:

I have been trying to make sense of this thread, but the multiple names/plans and my lack of knowledge of the area is making it confusing.

 

Are these statements true?

1. The plan to build Washington Elementary would take out the 22 mentioned and photoed historic structures.

2. Renovating Rothernburg would keep these buildings, but CPS isn't going back and forumers want condos.

3. The proposed parking gargage will go over a surface lot, not take any buildings.

 

Can you answer me this?

1. What do we lose on the SCPA site?

2. The SCPA is still planned south of Washington Park correct?

3. How many SCPA's does CPS operate?

4. Is there any chance a school might still be built on Wash park?

5. How is the deal "falling through"?

I'll take a stab at answering these:

 

True or False

1. The plan to build Washington Elementary would take out the 22 mentioned and photoed historic structures. True.

2. Renovating Rothernburg would keep these buildings, but CPS isn't going back and forumers want condos.  True, most likely.  The CPS seems set at building at Mercer Commons despite the uproar.  Most forumers would prefer condos at this historic site.

3. The proposed parking gargage will go over a surface lot, not take any buildings.  The answer to this is not clear.  The original plan called for demolition, when the new SPCA was to be built alongside Music Hall.

 

1. What do we lose on the SCPA site?  The concern is that we may lose the greenspace that spreads out to the north of the school.  A developer could build on the site, removing one of the nicest parks in Over-the-Rhine.

2. The SCPA is still planned south of Washington Park correct?  Yes.

3. How many SCPA's does CPS operate?  At least two:  the current SPCA and the smaller Schiel Primary School for Arts Enrichment.

4. Is there any chance a school might still be built on Wash park?  No, a school will not be built on Washington Park.  The park will be enlarged so that it stretches up to 14th Street.  This will be a welcome beautification of the area, in tandem with 3CDC's development efforts.

 

 

 

 

SCPA is the old Woodward high school.  I believe some members of the Woodward family are interred under the allee of trees (newly re-planted) on the school's east side.

I heard on NPR news on my drive/swim home tonight that primarily drawings will be shown of the new SCPA at tonight's meeting. I don't know if there are online minutes of the meeting.

^ There's about a 2-4 week delay between meetings and their minutes being posted since they have to approve the minutes at their next meeting, etc.  I think the most recent one available is October 24.

 

Let the polite disagreeing begin . . . I like; "stainless steel wall surrounding the 750-seat theater on the Central Parkway side that will reflect the sky and surrounding buildings. A curved zinc wall . . .

 

<b>Two school designs unveiled

 

New buildings could also give boost to Over-the-Rhine, Pleasant Ridge</b>

 

By Jennifer Mrozowski

Enquirer staff writer

 

The proposed design of the new Pleasant Ridge School would be environmentally friendly, using more natural lighting and less electric light. Cincinnati Public Schools unveiled architectural drawings for two new school buildings that the district says could help transform the neighborhoods in which they are located.

 

The sprawling, 250,000-square-foot, K-12 arts school in Over-the-Rhine, which will have three theaters inside, is designed to light the neighborhood and serve as an entryway to the budding arts community establishing itself there.

^ I think the new SCPA looks pretty sweet.  It would be a nice replacement to the empty parking lot there now.  It will be a shame to lose the Belmont though...

I will be shocked if they finish it by 2008 unless they plan to break ground soon.

This is the best SCPA design yet.  I am guessing that the view is from the southwest, and that the round theater is at the corner of Elm and Central Parkway.  Though I am interested in the other four facades, which I haven't seen yet.  I also would like to see a site plan, to see how it really works. 

 

"said the arts building is not designed to have a back side"  - where do you put the dumpster and loading dock then?  The architect is right, though, that this site has four important sides, and it is extremely important that all streets are treated as significant.

 

By the way, I also like the Fairview German Language school design.  It is restrained, but modern.  The elevation drawings are much more interesting than the 3-d renderings, which just show the massing and lack detail. 

>Curt Moody, one of the designers from Cole Russell-Fanning Howey-Moody Nolan Architects, said the arts building is not designed to have a back side. "It's designed to look impressive from any vantage point," he said. "It's a gateway building to the neighborhood. It's also envisioned to be a catalyst for redevelopment of Over-the-Rhine."

 

Well Mr. Moody I'm sure is quite the salesman.  They briefly flashed a rendering on 9 last night that showed that the northeast corner of the block will be a fairly large parking lot, covering about 1/5 of the block.  So the two buildings standing there now will be torn down for yet another downtown parking lot.  With that lot taking a chunk out of the north side of teh block, I'm extremely skeptical that the building will look "impressive" from Washington Park.  I'm also suspect of redevelopment "catalysts" (Pres Bush might joke that's a "Yale word") that tear down buildings and displace businesses such as this.  What redevelopment will the new SCPA encourage that it's present building doesn't (except for indirectly causing the Kroger garage and condos to be built, which were controversial)?   

 

This reporter raised no issues, it was an easy clip.  Could a simple bus between the present SCPA and Music Hall not deliver 99% of "studying under" professionals and for a fraction of the cost of building this palace?  Is that what they do presently and if so what, specifically, will tens of millions of dollars do to improve this magical interaction?  Is SCPA pulling out of the Taft Theater?  Why are we building more theaters on Central Parkway when the Emmery has sat unused for a decade?     

           

 

"

It's a gateway building to the neighborhood

Looks like we are going to get the same crap "kroger garage" orfice. These big box developments are ruining OTR. I wouldn't doubt walmart is eyeing a block for a supercenter. Bah Humbug!

I think this looks like a piece of shit.  I don't know if any of you saw the design as it looked in 2003, but it was TONS better.  The architects at least attempted to fit it into its context, and it was a fairly impressive structure.  Then the project switched architects for some reason.  Unfortunately none of those old renderings appears to be available anywhere for comparison.  I hate this new design, but that's my historic preservation bias.  I just feel that too much of the character that has helped spark investment in OTR in recent years is being destroyed....and my hypothesis is that all this demolition and modernist design is going to inhibit, rather than facilitate, economic development.

Oh, and don't get me started on the old school buildings (one dating from 1905) that are being torn down in Pleasant Ridge, my old neighborhood, to make room for the new school.  The old buildings are the single most impressive piece of the built environment left in PR, and they're being torn down essentially because 40 moms got together and threw a fit to CPS about the school moving to Kennedy Heights.  Where was the voice of the other 5,000 or so residents of the neighborhood?

What is with the light sabre on the front of the building? There are many of those "Gateway spotlights" all over town and none of them are operating anymore.

Just a heads-up....

 

Local12 Newsmakers is going to be talking about the new SCPA with the architects on Sunday.  Apparently they're going to have some kind of animated renderings available.

 

It sucks though because Sunday is Christmas.  It might be something worth taping.

I love OTR, it's history and potential. I know some of the buildings, and therefore the fabric, exist only because it has been largely ignored these many years. I am thrilled with new ventures, but even for how cool this building looks, it, like the Gateway Condos, doesn't really blend or 'pick up' the environs much.  I know that SCPA needs to move, I am all for it, while worrying about the Woodward HS bldg., but why can't this architect work in the Belmont bldg for example?  The Art Academy faced the very same situation SCPA has, and look at their great solution.

 

Finally, as the moving vans go across 12th street from the old SCPA on Sycamore to the new on Elm, they will drive right past one of the forgotten gems of our city & OTR, the Emery Theatre (originally Emery Auditorium).  It is visually plain but acoustically nearly perfect.  It seats 2000+, but sits there mouldering away.  I now the stage is smallish and the back stage area insufficient, but why is this being ignored?  Some of the development $$ might go a long way to bringing this into the mix. Most cities would kill for an assest like this.  It's not like a 300 seat old movie house, it is a major structure.  I am sad for Mrs. Emery, wherever she is.

Personally I prefer them to not try to match the current OTR architecture.  It seems like when that's attempted you get something that looks cheap and uninspired. 

I can see your point, but I worry that if every new structure (and hoping there will be many of these over time to fill in all of the blanks in OTR) has it's own unique architecture it will begin to look chaotic.  Maybe major projects like SCPA can go their own way, but smaller works like a new store, or condo, be more in line with it's surroundings.....

Yea, you might get something like the current UC mis-mash, so I can see what you mean. 

Some of the potential that you speak of in OTR comes with a time table.  These buildings will not stand forever and the question is what can be done to attract development and investment into OTR before these buildings are dropped.  Infill housing is one of the quickest ways to draw more dollars into an area.  Even Gateway will ultimately serve as a catalyst to surrounding buildings and they will be rehabbed, Vinyard homes helped push Mulberry, and we would not be talking about Washington Park now if it were not for the proposed construction over there.  The architecture of new construction can be debated all day with no concensus, however no one can argue against the catalyst affects of infill and its effect on surrounding historical structures.

Sweet, this should be another kick ass addition to downtown.

 

New SCPA building OK'd

Called catalyst to revitalizing Over-the-Rhine

BY ALLEN HOWARD | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

 

A new home for the nation's first public kindergarten-to-12th-grade arts school - which supporters say should provide a boost to Over-the-Rhine's revival - got the go-ahead Monday night from the Cincinnati school board.

 

The $62 million School for the Creative and Performing Arts, which will replacing the existing one at 1310 Sycamore Ave., is the first created by a private-public collaboration.

"The building also has been designed to fit into the neighborhood's architecture"  Are you kidding!!!! 

 

I have no problem with this building.  Ill give cole + russel the benefit of the doubt that it will be more sensitive than the rendering is portraying.  But dont tell me this building matches the existing architecture!  I sure hope they arent tearing anything down for this though.

^ There currently is a big surface parking lot there, although I believe there are a few buildings on the corner of 12th and Race.  I just wonder what the drop inn center will do with themselves.  Considering that sex offenders are not alowed within 300 yards (correct me if I'm wrong) of a school building.

<i>Sweet! The Post, as usual, has more details</i>

 

<b>The new SCPA Board gives final approval</b>

 

By Mary Ellyn Hutton

Post music writer

 

The Cincinnati school board has given final approval to a new $62 million School for the Creative and Performing Arts.

 

The new school, the first K-12 arts school in the U.S., as well as the nation's first private sector/public arts school, will be a "catalyst for the revitalization of Over-the-Rhine," Thomas J. Klinedinst, chairman and CEO of the Greater Cincinnati Arts and Education Center, said.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060425/NEWS01/604250354

Thanks moonloop.  I guess that answers half of my question.  I wonder what locations the drop inn center is looking at relocating to.

Awesome news on the relocation of the Drop Inn center.  Getting it away from Washington park can only be a good thing. 

I dont believe they said that it would 'match' the existing architecture, but rather it will fit in and 'complement' it.  That gray area should look nice with all of the brick bldgs. that surround it.  UC has done it on their Main St. development and it turned out quite nice with the other historic bldgs. nearby.

I dont believe they said that it would 'match' the existing architecture, but rather it will fit in and 'complement' it.  That gray area should look nice with all of the brick bldgs. that surround it.  UC has done it on their Main St. development and it turned out quite nice with the other historic bldgs. nearby.

 

I realize they dont mean that it will "match"...but i dont see much compliment either.  i agree that a few of the zinc clad uc buildings look very nice, however, the first building that comes to mind when seeing the theater portion of this project is tangamen which is an absolute disaster.  again, i think the project will be successfull, but from experience i know that the fluffier architectural elements usually dont show up in these marketing renderings.  i will withhold judgment until the project is finished but i definately think this is a good thing.

On a negative note, the news last night (WCPO?) indicated the State of OH is cutting 16% from their contribution to building the new schools which is nearly $32 million - that's two schools!. The reason given was weird, something about the State not paying for certain roof types and something else I can't think of. I hope this doesn't effect the Washington Park school being torn down.

Thanks moonloop.  I guess that answers half of my question.  I wonder what locations the drop inn center is looking at relocating to.

They are relocating some dozen or so residential units that are on the site.  The Drop Inn Center itself, across the street will remain.

The Drop Inn Center is already within 1000 feet of a school (Washington Park Elementary).  Supposedly they do their best to ensure that their residents are not convicted sex offenders.

 

And those recent articles about the new SCPA claimed that the school is negotiating with the Drop Inn Center to find an acceptable solution.

I'm with you, PhattiNati, I don't see how this building is going to complement the existing architecture.  Don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of the new school....I just don't like this design.  Notice that there is no rendering of the new school in context, showing the impact that it might have on the St. John's Church, Memorial Hall, the Park, the First Lutheran Church, and Music Hall.  To me it seems like an ultra-modern hallucination dreamed up by some suburban architect who has never lived close to downtown.  Yes, it's "cool", but when you have a historic district of the national significance of OTR, shouldn't a little more attention be paid to how new stuff will fit in?  I mean, would you ever see this in Charleston? Savannah? New Orleans? Beacon Hill? Greenwich Village?  London? Paris?  Cincinnatians don't seem to realize how unique OTR is nationally, and that it could actually be as successful and prosperous as other tourist destinations.

 

Did anyone see the renderings back in 2003?  At that time there was a different architect, and their design was the best contextual modern architecture I've probably ever seen.  The building totally "fit in".  Then something happened, they switched architects, and we're winding up with something WAY different.  Plus we're losing 5 historic buildings -- for some reason the design team refused to even consider incorporating the old italianate buildings into the new structure.

dglenn those neighborhoods you mentioned are great but there not what we have in all honesty.  We have a good portion of buildings in OTR that are sound enough to be saved but we also have a good portion that don't and shouldn't.  Losing buildings sucks but we've already lost an entire neighborhood.  I can deal with this prospect for change.

From the 4/30/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Designed with arts in mind

The new School for Creative and Performing Arts will be built to harmonize with students' artistic needs and talents

BY JANELLE GELFAND | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

It started as a dream in 1996. Now, 10 years later, a design - partly inspired by the movie "Fame" - has been unveiled for the new School for Creative and Performing Arts in Over-the-Rhine.

 

Cincinnati's school board approved the design Monday.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060430/ENT07/604300331/1025/rss05

 

Weedrose, what are you basing your opinion on?  Have you done financial analyses of buildings in OTR which demonstrates that they cannot and should not be saved?  And when you say we've already lost an entire neighborhood, what do you mean?  More than half of the original fabric is still there, not to mention many of the critical pieces of the original German neighborhood: Music Hall (the oldest large Music Hall still in existence), Memorial Hall, the Germania Building, Goodfellows Hall, Cosmopolitan Hall, Moerlein's Bottling Plant, Hudepohl's Bottling Plant, the Jackson Brewery, the Sohn Brewery, Findlay Market, Wielert's Beer Garden, Heuck's Opera House Saloon, the Alms and Doepke building, Woodward High School, Rothenburg School, St. Johannes Church, St Paul's Cathedral, Old St. Mary's Church, St. Paulus Church, Nast Church (the first German Methodist Church in the country), 1st English Lutheran Church, St. Phillipus Church, St. Seraph's Church, the Evangelical Salem's Church, and a collection of 3-5 story tenements with a horizontal and vertical density not to be found anywhere else in the country, outside New York.  Shall I go on?  How about the fact that OTR had the first Turnverein in the country?  And the fact that Levi Coffin had a house that was a station along the underground railroad?  And the fact that Harriet Beecher Stowe lived in the neighborhood?

 

Where else can you find a 19th century German immigrant community this large and this intact?  Can you name me an example?  You're right that OTR is not not quite up there with the places I named, but it could be a significant tourist draw nonetheless.  After all, German is easily the most prevalent ethnic heritage among Americans.  And it just so happens that Cincinnati was one of the 3 or 4 biggest targets for German immigration in the U.S., and that the most heavily concentrated German community in the City is largely preserved.  And you're telling me it's not all that great?

 

dglenn I have conducted some financial analysis on the worth of those structures in their current condition.  You mentioned great examples of some truly wonderful structures and beautiful shells but the neighborhood is more than what you mentioned.  Not everything in that neighborhood is valuable, a portion of those structures should be destroyed (and many should be saved).  The neighborhood would work with a mixture of the old and the new, celebrate history but don't stay locked in a 19th century mindset.

dglenn I have conducted some financial analysis on the worth of those structures in their current condition.  You mentioned great examples of some truly wonderful structures and beautiful shells but the neighborhood is more than what you mentioned.

 

Weedrose, could you share some examples of your analyses on these buildings?  I would be interested to see your findings and how you came to your conclusions.

 

Thanks.

Weedrose, I will give you that there are a few structures that aren't really very valuable to the district, and should maybe come down.  There's a frame structure in the 1600 block of elm; there are a couple on pleasant south of liberty that are so isolated and alone that they may need to be razed to make room for large scale infill; then there are several that have been altered so much that they have lost much of their original character, and are no longer considered "contributing" buildings.  But beyond those examples, I would argue strongly against demolition of anything else.

 

I, too, would be interested to know how you did your financial analysis and came to your conclusions -- especially what assumptions you used.

 

Finally, I agree with you conceptually that the neighborhood could work with a mixture of old and new.  But it would be nice to have an example of a community where that's worked successfully, without damaging the character of the historic environment.  I have yet to come across such a community.  I'd love to hear it if you know of one.

 

 

Mostly, I assumed an 8% CAP for the streets like 13th and 14th around Vine, I don't consider the comp picture around the area to be as strong as say Dayton Street in the West End (pre citylink) where I actually used a 7%.  I used pretty standard valuation techniques overall.  Since I didn't have financial documents from the buildings I assumed 20% vacancy on the soft end to 60% vacancy.  For the land, I used best use valuation.  I also priced in sales around the area that I got from the auditor's site but to do a true valuation I would need Schedule Es, maintenance, rent roll information etc so I had to make some pretty progressive assumptions.  I also depreciated the numbers slightly if for example Music Hall were to move.  It's fairly easy to do.  My friend and I are in the process of starting an LLC to do real estate development and we're definitely interested in being third wavers in the area.   We were looking to acquire a multi-unit in Mt. Auburn but we were dicked around by the agent and there was more extensive damage throughout the structure than we were comfortable with.  About the time we were looking for our building is when I did some comps in OTR.

As for a mixture of the old and the new I would say some good examples locally would be parts of Mt. Adams further, your previous examples of the Beacon Hill area work, a good portion of the original fabric remains but there is a mixture of structures thaat have been equally preserved as well as character fitting property.

Argus is a good software package that would help you to make some of those choices.

well said, I'm impressed.

 

How did you determine hard costs?  What per/SF numbers did you use?  What contractor fee did you assume? 

I ask because once you add up all these assumptions, the definition of "too far gone" can be quite fluid.