2 hours ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

 

KJP, would you be more in favor of commuter rail lines connecting these areas or light rail? Would commuter rail lines would have more potential for additional capacity? I guess I am just not certain the complete difference.

 

For example, is Barta considering commuter rail line between Oakland and San Francisco?

 

Thanks for your question. First, BART has built a heavy-rail transit line that extends the SF-Fremont line to North San Jose, just shy of downtown, and expects to start service at the end of 2019. It will be extended into downtown San Jose as a subway and through to the Santa Clara Caltrain commuter rail station.  http://www.vta.org/bart/

 

Second, some clarity on definitions. BART is a heavy rail transit line. Same classification as Cleveland RTA's Red Line. Same as Chicago's elevated. The "heavy" refers to the extent of design and construction of the right of way. Heavy rail lines typically do not have any grade crossings. Their electrical supply is often from a third-rail (GCRTA's Red Line is a rare exception). The station platforms are high-level, offering level boarding. Because of the design, they are faster than LRT.

 

Light rail includes the likes of Cleveland RTA's Blue/Green lines, Pittsburgh's T, Cincinnati's streetcar, Buffalo's Metro, etc. Cleveland's light-rail cars are actually heavier than its heavy-rail cars. So again, the right of way design is the tell. But even this is muddied. Pittsburgh and Buffalo LRT's operate in subways with high-level boarding and as streetcars as well.

 

But the fastest form of urban rail transit are commuter rail, the only one that can be classified and regulated as a railroad. And its trains are the only kind that can run in mixed traffic with freight trains. And that is the best option for linking those four Ohio routes.

 

Regional commuter rail can be started out with a very limited frequency of service, with a train or three inbound to a central business district in the morning and a similar number returning from the CBD to outlying areas in the afternoon/evening. That's how Toronto's first GO Train commuter rail service started out in the late 1960s, with just a handful of peak rush hour-only trains. Today, GO Train runs 21 hours a day, from 4 a.m. to 1 a.m., every 30 minutes off-peak and every few minutes in peak travel hours. And soon GO Train will electrify five of its routes, operate on dedicated tracks (no freight trains), and run every 15 minutes off-peak and every few minutes peak -- basically operating like a heavy-rail transit route.

 

Edited December 21, 20186 yr by KJP

51 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Thanks for your question. First, BART has built a heavy-rail transit line that extends the SF-Fremont line to North San Jose, just shy of downtown, and expects to start service at the end of 2019. It will be extended into downtown San Jose as a subway and through to the Santa Clara Caltrain commuter rail station.  http://www.vta.org/bart/

 

Second, some clarity on definitions. BART is a heavy rail transit line. Same classification as Cleveland RTA's Red Line. Same as Chicago's elevated. The "heavy" refers to the extent of design and construction of the right of way. Heavy rail lines typically do not have any grade crossings. Their electrical supply is often from a third-rail (GCRTA's Red Line is a rare exception). The station platforms are high-level, offering level boarding. Because of the design, they are faster than LRT.

 

Light rail includes the likes of Cleveland RTA's Blue/Green lines, Pittsburgh's T, Cincinnati's streetcar, Buffalo's Metro, etc. Cleveland's light-rail cars are actually heavier than its heavy-rail cars. So again, the right of way design is the tell. But even this is muddied. Pittsburgh and Buffalo LRT's operate in subways with high-level boarding and as streetcars as well.

 

But the fastest form of urban rail transit are commuter rail, the only one that can be classified and regulated as a railroad. And its trains are the only kind that can run in mixed traffic with freight trains. And that is the best option for linking those four Ohio routes.

 

Regional commuter rail can be started out with a very limited frequency of service, with a train or three inbound to a central business district in the morning and a similar number returning from the CBD to outlying areas in the afternoon/evening. That's how Toronto's first GO Train commuter rail service started out in the late 1960s, with just a handful of peak rush hour-only trains. Today, GO Train runs 21 hours a day, from 4 a.m. to 1 a.m., every 30 minutes off-peak and every few minutes in peak travel hours. And soon GO Train will electrify five of its routes, operate on dedicated tracks (no freight trains), and run every 15 minutes off-peak and every few minutes peak -- basically operating like a heavy-rail transit route.

 

 

What a great explanation, thanks so much KJP. I wish so much we had more progressive leadership in Ohio, we have so much potential with commuter lines between our great cities. Someday I think we get there, but I don't think much changes in the next few years with our current leadership. Got to keep pushing!

 

Also, I think a commuter rail between Cincy and Dayton would be great. Especially for stops in the middle areas of the metros like Sharonville, West Chester, up through Dayton, etc. There is a lot of interlap and there could be even more if leaders put their collective energy together for a bit to make it more of a priority.

 

In Cincinnati, we get hounded about text messages between council members and and people calling eachother evil, our mayor saying form-based codes are "scary" and people blaiming streetcar operating costs for a $19 million dollar deficit. Money does all the talking to distract from the real issues in our region, and everyone is afraid to tackle the problem for fear of messing up.

 

That's the Trump effect, any bump in the road to substantial change (talking about spending money in a meaningful investment), gets blown out of proportion by the other side who runs the papers and media (Enquirer). I do hope some day we can get past all this

@KJP- Any insight on if they're looking at Ohio?  

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2018/12/12/virgin-high-speed-train-florida-travel-orig.cnn

No, but we at All Aboard Ohio have reached out to them to make them aware of the opportunities here.

 

New $60M contract will bring delayed East Side Access closer to completion

 

The project is now aiming for a 2022 completion date

 

By Ameena Walker  Jan 11, 2019, 12:06pm EST

 

 

It’s been a while since we’ve had any updates on the MTA’s ambitious East Side Accessproject, a plan that seeks to connect Long Island Railroad (LIRR) trains with Grand Central Terminal. In 2014, it was announced that the project’s completion would be delayed until at least 2023—14 years later than initially planned— and would come at a cost of $10.8 billion, which is $6.5 billion over its initial budget estimate. But it appears that the MTA is looking to make progress on the project and bump up its completion date.

 

In October, Skanska was awarded a $60.2 million contract by the MTA to begin construction on a new tunnel for the project this spring. The firm will be responsible for excavating 20,000 cubic yards of soil to make room for the 800-foot tunnel that it will build, and ultimately connect to the LIRR’s network of tunnels. The contract also contains two additional options to install new tracks and switches. During the excavation, temporary supports for the nearby 39th Street Bridge will need to installed.

 

Skanska is aiming to wrap up construction by mid-2021 and hopes that LIRR service will begin service to Grand Central Terminal by the end of 2022.

 

 

 

more:

 

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/1/11/18178418/east-side-access-skanska-construction-contract-completion-date

 

 

 

boomba! mta and amtrak reach agreement for four new stations in east bronx and mnrr service to penn via the hellgate bridge and east side access. it moves to the design phase soon:

 

https://pix11.com/2019/01/22/mta-reaches-agreement-with-amtrak-on-metro-north-east-bronx-expansion-project/amp/

Here's a pretty factual account of Baltimore's attempt (killed about 4 years ago) at building an extensive rail system. The lesson seems to be that with Baltimore's topography buses (instead of subway) aren't the answer. 

 

In Baltimore, the downtown consists of often discontinuous, mostly narrow streets which are unsuited to bulky modern buses. (Think Philadelphia, but less organized.) Adding buses to the traffic just makes a bad situation worse.

 

https://www.citylab.com/perspective/2019/01/baltimore-bus-relaunch-mta-transit-ridership-larry-hogan/579934/

 

New construction videos have been posted by the California HSR Authority. 

 

Here we an especially ostentatious bit of construction necessary to maintain freight rail access to a business of some type:

 

Not only is a ton of concrete and steel necessary to build and outfit the trench, there is a gigantic barrier wall in between HSR and freight rail to prevent a derailed freight train from falling into the HSR trench. 

 

 

 

 

That is lunacy!   Would have been cheaper to just build a concrete/steel barrier gate to keep a slow-moving freight train moving to a siding from crossing the high-speed tracks at-grade! 

The recurring forces causing track displacement at such a rail-to-rail crossing would have been too risky. On the Northeast Corridor, for example, a mere 1/16th of an inch displacement in the rail's alignment will knock over drinks in the lounge car. And that's at 135 mph. At 200 mph, such a minor displacement would be dangerous.

 

Some of this is also a matter of liability as well as the shipping demands of freight customers who can't wait until the overnight hours for freight access. That's why Cleveland's Red Line was built with numerous elevated crossings of industrial sidings. However, I believe none of those sidings are active anymore.

trump is taking very brief, very excellent notes on that wall

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 20196 yr by KJP

It's unclear what is actually going on.  I'm not going to speculate at this point. 

If the project doesn't end up reaching LA and San Jose at the very least, it's going to be a huge embarrassment and will forever be held up as an example of why HSR "won't work in this country." If they can just focus on completing the initial segment, maybe a future congress will be willing to provide federal funding to build the additional segments and connect the nation's 2nd and 12th biggest MSAs.

Or, at least it will be held by conservatives that California showed that a public sector-led high-speed rail project doesn't work. Even though most places in the world had the public sector initiate and sponsor their HSR projects. The Texas project is still very much alive, construction starts next month for the West Palm Beach-Orlando portion of Brightline (granted, it will max out at speeds of 110-125 mph but I'd take that in a heartbeat in Ohio), Texas' project looks good, and look for Brightline to build from Victorville to Las Vegas -- at least at the outset.

 

Oh, and there's a little corridor in the Northeast where 160 mph speeds in Maryland, New Jersey and Massachusetts will be routine very shortly. If Connecticut DOT could get their act together and raise the speeds between New Rochelle and New Haven, from 60-80 mph to 100-160 mph, they could finally get the New York to Boston run time down to 3 hours or less. Oh, and then there's the story of a few tunnels and bridges in New Jersey and Maryland....

22 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

It's unclear what is actually going on.  I'm not going to speculate at this point. 

 

I'm ready to speculate. 

 

It looks to me like this vague announcement by the governor means we're going to see a redesign of the NoCal and SoCal approaches.  We'll see the 30~ mile Palmdale deviation removed and HSR south of Bakersfield made to parallel I-5 so as to avoid any major tunnels.  The whole Palmdale plan was a setup for HSR to Las Vegas.  So saving money on CAHSR simply passes the buck and perhaps permanently dooms HSR to Las Vegas. 

 

The situation in NoCal is much more interesting. 

 

I suspect that we're going to see a return to the Altamont Pass routing that was originally envisioned for CAHSR in the 2000s.  The official decision to switch to the Pacheco Pass alignment was made around 2008.  So we're likely going to see an abandonment of plans for the 13-mile tunnel between Gilroy and Medera.  The gigantic high-speed wye will not be built either.

 

Instead of joining Caltrains at Gilroy, HSR will enter the Bay Area via the Altamont Pass and join with an electrified Capitol Corridor somewhere in the east bay and then travel under the bay in a new 4-track Transbay Tube.  Two tracks for BART and two for HSR/Capitol Corridor/Caltrains. 

 

We'll see Caltrains and the Capitol Corridor combined so that newly electrified trains can travel in a loop between SF, Oakland, and San Jose on both sides of the bay.  We'll see new commuter trains from Stockton and Modesto travel at 125mph into Transbay.   

 

We'll also see much more capacity from the 6-track Transbay Salesforce Transit Center because it will become a thru station rather than a terminal station.  HSR trains will be able to turn on proper tail tracks and/or the 4th & King space.  The 15 minutes needed to turn (clean the trains and change crews) HSR in the terminal station configuration was what was limiting HSR's capacity.  There is only space for two tail tracks on the east side of Transbay Terminal, and they have to curve to avoid traveling out under the Bay.  So it was a less-than-ideal situation, to say the least.   

 

Has there ever been a proposal for HSR from LA to Phoenix, AZ? On google earth it looks like a straight shot between Phoenix and San Bernardino.

36 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Has there ever been a proposal for HSR from LA to Phoenix, AZ? On google earth it looks like a straight shot between Phoenix and San Bernardino.

 

Yes.  CAHSR Phase 2 between LA and San Diego via Riverside is all a setup for Phoenix.  It'll enable a 125mph fully grade-separated entrance into LA AND San Diego for Phoenix HSR. 

 

Somehow the fact that CAHSR's design concessions are a setup for service to Las Vegas *and* Phoenix has somehow been totally overlooked.  It's actually a great justification for federal money since there are interstate commerce issues at play, not the least of which being that Las Vegas only sits 15 miles from the California border, and needs California much more than vice-verse.  

 

Unfortunately, the politics of the region are especially obnoxious.  Arizona has always been a Republican stronghold, and Nevada has a libertarian streak.  So it's tough to get them to meet at the table with California, even though it's all in their collective interests to do so.   

 

Trump now going after the federal grants to California HSR, presumably to BUILD THAT WALL. 

He can try but they've been contractually obligated, assuming Trump even knows or cares what a contract is. 

^He sure has breached a lot of them over the years!

On 2/13/2019 at 7:20 PM, jmecklenborg said:

 

Yes.  CAHSR Phase 2 between LA and San Diego via Riverside is all a setup for Phoenix.  It'll enable a 125mph fully grade-separated entrance into LA AND San Diego for Phoenix HSR. 

 

Somehow the fact that CAHSR's design concessions are a setup for service to Las Vegas *and* Phoenix has somehow been totally overlooked.  It's actually a great justification for federal money since there are interstate commerce issues at play, not the least of which being that Las Vegas only sits 15 miles from the California border, and needs California much more than vice-verse.  

 

Unfortunately, the politics of the region are especially obnoxious.  Arizona has always been a Republican stronghold, and Nevada has a libertarian streak.  So it's tough to get them to meet at the table with California, even though it's all in their collective interests to do so.   

 

 

The XpressWest HSR network was going to interchange with California HSR at the Palmdale station. It would make a lot of sense for them to figure out a way to complete the Bakersfield-to-Palmdale California HSR segment sooner rather than later even if the Palmdale-to-LA segment continues to be delayed.

^They need to dig a relatively short (2~ mile) tunnel between Bakersfield and Palmdale in order to build HSR on this alignment.  So if CaHSR goes back to the I-5 "grapevine" route, Las Vegas rail will not be able to simply go up toward Bakersfield and link in with HSR without building that same tunnel.  Also, there is an issue with the I-5 route and the San Andreas Fault, which might or might not be true. 

 

From what I have read, the Palmdale route means CAHSR crosses the San Andreas Fault on the surface.  If the line is built parallel to I-5, it will cross that same fault in a tunnel.  I am no seismic expert so I don't know if these two items are absolutely true or how much a problem either situation presents.  I do know that BART's Berkely Hills tunnel travels through a fault and the engineers didn't do anything to mitigate the situation and it's known that the tunnel will be destroyed in the event of a major earthquake.  If a train is in there when that happens, then it's lights out. However, that fault is not the one that caused the 1989 earthquake and in fact the tunnel was completely unaffected by that event. 

 

Anyway, the CAHSR haters all say that the system should have been built as originally planned -- as a true bullet train that simply paralleled I-5 all the way from the San Fernando Valley north to the Altamont Pass, with zero stations in the central valley.  If you trace that original route, it's about 40 miles shorter than what is being built (Central Valley cities + Palmdale).  The fact is that at 200mph these extra 40 miles breeze by in 15 minutes and that additional mainline trackage wins the system all of the Central Valley city riders on local trains plus the Las Vegas connection.  Seems like a reasonable compromise to me if it doesn't cost tens of billions more, which it probably doesn't. 

 

So Palmdale wins the system well-over 5 million potential riders (Las Vegas + Bakersfield + Fresno + scattered Central Valley towns).  That's the approximate population of the Bay Area.  HSR-haters can't seem to accept that the residents of the Central Valley are human beings.  The prejudices of coastal Californians toward the Central Valley is pretty damn amazing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So they're going to build HSR's entrance into San Francisco without saying they are:

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article226474345.html

 

 

 

Sadly, 30th Street Station in Philly has lost its iconic flipboard. I don't know why they couldn't have just added a second sign that was ADA compliant. 

 

https://www.phillyvoice.com/30th-street-station-solari-board-amtrak-spit-flap-arrivals-departures-sign-officially-leaving/

They should put that flipboard into a museum.

CAHSR planning continues.  Here we have an updated flyover of the San Jose -> Gilroy -> Pacheco Pass Tunnel -> Wye.  So no contracts have been awarded to build anything seen here:

 

So here is the budget-busting 13.5-mile Pacheco Pass Tunnel and a surprising amount of elevated construction through the Grapes of Wrath. 

 

18 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

They should put that flipboard into a museum.

Well, we do have a Sign Museum in Cincinnati...

2 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

Well, we do have a Sign Museum in Cincinnati...

 

The plan is to house it at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania until they can hopefully get it back up at the station. Though I would be very happy to have it here in Cincinnati. That board always made 30th Street feel extra special, almost like being in a movie. 

Video update of California HSR construction in the Fresno area:

 

France is upgrading its high speed trains.  Interesting video at the link, too.

 

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/02/france-high-speed-rail-new-trains-tgv-2020-sncf-cost-ticket/583624/

On 2/21/2019 at 2:33 PM, ColDayMan said:

They should put that flipboard into a museum.

 

 

news about that from the inquirer:

 

After being taken down from its perch in 30th Street’s great hall, the Solari board was shipped to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg.

 

According to the Amtrak spokesperson, the railroad is exploring the possibility of reinstalling the board as a decorative feature at 30th Street Station

Some very nice new drone footage of California HSR construction in and around Fresno:

 

"Boondoggle!" - BrownTown

Is this the best place for commuter rail news? Boston Massachusetts South Shore line extensions:

 

https://www.patriotledger.com/news/20190422/south-coast-rail-service-could-begin-in-late-2023

Yes. Welcome @Boomerang_Brian! Where are you boomeranging from/to?

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Yes. Welcome @Boomerang_Brian! Where are you boomeranging from/to?

 

I grew up in the area, went to CWRU, started working in Mayfield Heights, and after a couple of years was relocated out to Boston.  I spent a decade out there and then had an opportunity to move back home (here) about four years ago.  It's nice to be back in an area I can actually afford.

 

My first few years in Boston I lived close to the T.  I loved that going to and from work was basically the only time I used my car.  I miss that.

Welcome back! I hope you can find a gig and a home here where you can do that on the Rapid, BRT, etc.

The new Raleigh, NC Union Station is open. So, remember when Cleveland and Cincinnati were big cities, with big-city train stations and Raleigh was Mayberry USA? This is the sound of Ohio being overtaken.....

 

Here's all 11 photos by HDR Consulting

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNZiAqP8NHfWgHRSTuUpNcFgiCAsp9_nQVR-BIv-KQxMjeMe1HvpFNBznwp1U4k2w?key=anR3LUdkMWx5MkJScGRqaHhXRmlhU245a1pyTTlB

On 5/3/2019 at 5:07 PM, KJP said:

The new Raleigh, NC Union Station is open. So, remember when Cleveland and Cincinnati were big cities, with big-city train stations and Raleigh was Mayberry USA? This is the sound of Ohio being overtaken.....

 

Here's all 11 photos by HDR Consulting

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNZiAqP8NHfWgHRSTuUpNcFgiCAsp9_nQVR-BIv-KQxMjeMe1HvpFNBznwp1U4k2w?key=anR3LUdkMWx5MkJScGRqaHhXRmlhU245a1pyTTlB

 

The inter-state service in NC is pretty solid, from what I've heard.  I have friends that live in Raleigh that take the train to Charlotte all the time for Panthers games, etc.  

It started out with one daily round trip in the 1980s that failed. Then it was restarted as a service that goes from Charlotte to Raleigh to New York. Then they added a Charlotte-Raleigh round trip service and and another one and then another one. The state, which owns much of the right of way, has undertaken a number of projects to ease out curves, add passing sidings and do other things to reduce the trip times bit-by-bit. It shows the evolutionary way that passenger rail services usually develop. For those who expect to see this occur in one big bang they are often disappointed. They seldom  go from nothing into a multi-trip, higher-speed passenger rail service from the get-go.

$1B path train improvements:

 

 

https://abc7ny.com/amp/traffic/path-announces-plan-to-increase-capacity-reduce-delays/5355269/

Looking forward to them extending PATH to the Newark Airport station. Would've been useful during my trip to NYC last month.

Can someone explain why new signals cost $750 million?  Per Wiki, the system's revenue track totals 13.8 miles, so $54.3 million per mile.  

 

 

That struck me too. I hope they're building a whole new dispatching center. Or putting up their own satellite!

Not new news, but I’m sure some of you will find this crazy old plan to “better connect” San Fran and Oakland interesting. 

 

https://m.sfgate.com/local/article/second-bay-bridge-plans-history-freeway-alameda-sf-14018498.php#photo-17722378

 

 

Nishkian proposed building a causeway nearly four tenths of a mile wide stretching across the bay with 2,000-foot-long channels at either terminus. In effect, it was an elongated island, a massive earthen barrier turning the bay south of China Basin and Alameda into a big lake.

On the San Francisco end, a bridge would span the channel. On the Alameda side, tunnels would serve highway traffic and, just as importantly, allow rail traffic from the Southern Pacific mole. The story goes that Reber hated not being able to take a train all the way to San Francisco when traveling from the east. The last stop was Oakland.

 

Nishkian envisioned a 400-foot-wide highway of up to 36 lanes coursing through the middle of the causeway. On either side would be 160 feet dedicated to railroad right of way — four main lines and 70 miles of sidings, according to the Aug. 14, 1946, Chronicle.

 

A little more than 600 feet on each side would be reserved for industrial sites extending 1,600 feet along the causeway. Nishkian figured sales and leases of the rail frontage property would pay for nearly half of the project's estimated $100 million price tag.

 

Ship moorage was not overlooked. Piers would be added on both northern and southern shores.

 

The bridge on the west would have been as wide as it was long (2,000 feet) to accommodate those 36 lanes and the main railroad tracks, and allow room for future expansion. In the east, nine tunnels would worm their way under the channel — six tubes of four lanes each for vehicular traffic to Oakland, one four-lane highway tube to Alameda and two railway tubes.

That would have dissolved into the bay from liquefaction in the first 7.0 earthquake.

A second roadway bridge between SF and Oakland will probably never happen, but the wheels are beginning to turn for a second Transbay Tube.  The most grandiose, but also most likely project will be a two level, 4- track tunnel with two tracks for BART and two for electrified commuter rail + high speed rail. 

 

If the second tube combines commuter rail, HSR, and BART, then it serves many constituencies inside and well outside the Bay Area, and so can secure big-time state and federal funds.  It'll turn the as-yet unused Transbay Transit Center into a through station, dramatically increasing the capacity of the 6-track facility.