February 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, ucgrady said: I really hate this quote from Paul Muething in his opinion letter: "Ensure that trust fund earnings could only be used to “rehabilitate, modernize, or replace existing infrastructure” and could never be used for the construction of new infrastructure improvements." So if we can't use it to extend the streetcar, build caps over FWW, build bike infrastructure or improve streetscapes and pedestrian safety... it's just going to be used for rehabbing roads. This would be my main hang-up in voting for/against this. I don't live in the city limits but if I did, I'd be against it for this alone. If the trust fund could be used to pay for the operating expenses for Metro or a new rail transit system it would be another story.
February 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: I think the business/political aim is to further reduce the city earnings tax by removing the .1% that was added for capital expenses back in 1987 or 1988. This would mean a total reduction of the earnings tax from the 2.1% that existed for decades back to the 1.7% it was at in the early 1970s, prior to the formation of Metro and its .3% earnings tax. Current earning taxes in the region: Columbus 2.5% Dayton 2.25% Norwood 2.0% Blue Ash 1.25% Mason 1.12% Covington 2.45% Newport 2.5% If anything we need an earnings tax increase to the 2.1% it was at before 2020. Tax cut will defund our services even with the sale.
February 12, 20232 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 12, 20232 yr I think the whole NS is dangerous schtick makes little sense. Whether the city sells the railroad or keeps leasing it NS will still be the operator. Just like always.
February 13, 20232 yr 23 hours ago, DEPACincy said: I think the whole NS is dangerous schtick makes little sense. Whether the city sells the railroad or keeps leasing it NS will still be the operator. Just like always. I don't think they realize that no other company would ever be able to use the line, and that there would never be anyone else to bid on it.
February 13, 20232 yr The argument I've seen is that "Norfolk Southern would now be in charge of upkeep on the line and look how bad they did up in Northern Ohio", but its not like the city of Cincinnati is sending maintenance workers down to LaFollette Tennessee to fix issues, right?
February 13, 20232 yr Ten years ago, 47 people died in Quebec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster Didn't get much coverage, different company than N-S.
February 13, 20232 yr I think the fact that Norfolk Southern doesnt own it means that they have to be more careful than if they had full ownership. You take care of a car more if its leased than if you own it outright. And I think the concerns about the safety of Norfolk Southern, with 2 derailments in Northern Ohio in the past 5 months, it is a genuine concern and one that is rightfully being brought up. Former lawmaker Tom Brinkman sues Cincinnati over railway sale documents Quote Tom Brinkman, a former Republican state lawmaker, is suing the city of Cincinnati in the Ohio Supreme Court, seeking to have the court make the city turn over certain public records related to the sale of the city-owned Cincinnati Southern Railway.
February 13, 20232 yr I have also heard there are genuine concerns that State Lawmakers wont go along with the rule changes in the Ferguson Act.
February 13, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, stashua123 said: I have also heard there are genuine concerns that State Lawmakers wont go along with the rule changes in the Ferguson Act. I think the main opposition in the statehouse would come from R's who don't want D cities to have money as well as reps from other parts of the state who don't want Cincinnati to become more competitive with an even lower earnings tax than the other C's.
February 13, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Lazarus said: I think the main opposition in the statehouse would come from R's who don't want D cities to have money as well as reps from other parts of the state who don't want Cincinnati to become more competitive with an even lower earnings tax than the other C's. I think using the sale to lower our already low earnings tax even lower isnt the best idea considering all of the liabilities the city has after ARP runs out.
February 13, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, stashua123 said: I think using the sale to lower our already low earnings tax even lower isnt the best idea considering all of the liabilities the city has after ARP runs out. I agree, but I imagine that the promise of lower taxes is a carrot that they'll dangle, even though a .1% reduction in the earnings tax is an irrelevant savings, even for a very high earner.
February 13, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, stashua123 said: I think the fact that Norfolk Southern doesnt own it means that they have to be more careful than if they had full ownership. You take care of a car more if its leased than if you own it outright. And I think the concerns about the safety of Norfolk Southern, with 2 derailments in Northern Ohio in the past 5 months, it is a genuine concern and one that is rightfully being brought up. Former lawmaker Tom Brinkman sues Cincinnati over railway sale documents The fact that Tom Brinkman is leading the opposition should tell you it's a great idea for the city to sell.
February 21, 20232 yr East Palestine disaster prompts questions about sale of Cincinnati railroad to Norfolk Southern Quote For the most part, Cincinnati city council members didn't say much about the disaster and its effects on the possible sale until The Enquirer asked. In fact, at least one of them, immediately after getting an email from a reporter, told a lobbyist for Norfolk Southern Corporation The Enquirer was asking questions about the viability of the sale. --- Six members of council, including Councilwoman Meeka Owens, who is chairwoman of city council's climate, environment, and infrastructure committee, responded to questions. The others were Jeffreys, Keating, Harris, Victoria Parks and Seth Walsh. Jeff Cramerding, Scotty Johnson and Vice Mayor Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney did not respond. --- It's unclear who alerted Norfolk Southern about The Enquirer's questions but a representative of the company reached out to The Enquirer asking what The Enquirer was working on. The Enquirer made a public records request for communications related to its questions, but the city has not responded.
February 22, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway board reaffirms it backs sale after East Palestine derailment Cincinnati Southern Railway board members said the derailment of a Norfolk Southern train in East Palestine, Ohio, and the subsequent environmental disaster had not changed their views about whether the city-owned railway should be sold to the railroad. The railway trustees, who technically own the railroad on behalf of the city, met for the first time since the Feb. 3 derailment on Tuesday and heard from a local Socialist group, whose members argued the railway should not be sold in light of the tragedy. “Norfolk Southern has shown time and time again a complete disregard for our communities,” said Jimmy Dollard, who said politicians “only care about what’s expedient to their political career.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/22/csr-board-still-committed-to-sale-after-derailment.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 22, 20232 yr So they're trying to say the city needs to sell the railroad in order to protect itself from future lawsuits. Luken's full of it today just like he's been for the last 50 years and his dad was for 50 years. He knows damn well that any judge would dismiss such a lawsuit.
February 23, 20232 yr ^what a ridiculous argument. If you believe that to be true, AND YOU ARE ON THE BOARD, then make sure the new lease makes it more clear that the city is not liable.
February 24, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway sale: Trustees face another lawsuit A former state lawmaker is suing the board of the Cincinnati Southern Railway, alleging that its discussions of a potential, $1.6 billion sale of the city-owned railway outside the public view in 2021 and 2022 were illegal, a position disputed by the city. Tom Brinkman Jr., a former Ohio House member from Cincinnati’s East Side, sued Nov. 21, seeking an injunction against the board preventing it from meeting privately. That was the day of the board meeting in which members voted to sell the railroad. A Hamilton County judge rejected the request, and the board met in open session Nov. 21. But the underlying dispute over the 2021 and 2022 executive sessions remains, with Brinkman and his attorney, Curt Hartman, seeking a declaratory judgment that the board violated the Ohio Open Meetings Act. They seek a $500 civil fine for each violation, plus attorney fees. They also want a judge to “declare invalid any and all resolutions, rules, or formal actions of any kind” that were “the result of deliberations conducted during the course of any of the executive sessions held in violation of the Open Meetings Act.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/24/cincinnati-southern-railway-sale-trustees-face-an.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 24, 20232 yr On 2/23/2023 at 10:46 AM, Dev said: ^what a ridiculous argument. If you believe that to be true, AND YOU ARE ON THE BOARD, then make sure the new lease makes it more clear that the city is not liable. I think he's questioning the very idea that a liability clause can ever be legal in such a lease. Or at least be immune to a costly lawsuit. I have no idea if he's right.
February 28, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway sale: Records show lobbyists said sale would face Statehouse hurdles A lobbyist hired by the Cincinnati Southern Railway Board to help win needed changes to state law to facilitate the railway’s $1.6 billion sale to Norfolk Southern told the city the General Assembly was unlikely to pass a bill last year. “We believe this project, while possible to complete this year, is not probable,” Gregory Lestini, a partner with Bricker & Eckler, a Columbus-based law firm with a lobbying arm, wrote on Sept. 12, 2022 in an email to Kaitlyn Geiger, a lawyer for the city, and Mark Mallory, the former Cincinnati mayor and state lawmaker and a member of the railway board. The Business Courier obtained the email through a public records request for communications about the proposed sale. Lestini’s prediction proved accurate. State Sen. Bill Blessing, R-Colerain Township, held up the needed legislation during the General Assembly’s lame-duck session at the end of 2022. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/02/28/records-lobbyist-railroad-sale-turbulence.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 28, 20232 yr ^ This was always going to be an uphill battle. Even if the numbers make sense, getting it past the legislature (no matter who is in charge) and then having to take it to the voters was always an extremely heavy lift. Part of the reason why the city still owns the railroad is because they have been unable to get voter approval in the past to sell it. So this is nothing new right now.
March 1, 20232 yr On 2/12/2023 at 8:45 AM, KJP said: I don't think they would be able to capture her seat. The way the election is set up, it pretty much allows for at least 1 member of the minority party to be on council. There are enough Republicans city wide to at least capture 1 seat if they all vote for her (or vote at all). She would never get to the top 3 but will always stay in the 7-9 range.
March 1, 20232 yr 43 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I don't think they would be able to capture her seat. The way the election is set up, it pretty much allows for at least 1 member of the minority party to be on council. There are enough Republicans city wide to at least capture 1 seat if they all vote for her (or vote at all). She would never get to the top 3 but will always stay in the 7-9 range. I think the opposite is true. There are too many unendorsed liberals and leftists on the ballot, which prevents the majority party from maintaining a unified voting block and sweeping the election. If the HamCo Democratic Party ran a slate of clones, then there would be nothing Republicans, or any other party, could do to prevent a landslide. That's a reason why it's sometimes called block voting.
March 1, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, Dev said: I think the opposite is true. There are too many unendorsed liberals and leftists on the ballot, which prevents the majority party from maintaining a unified voting block and sweeping the election. If the HamCo Democratic Party ran a slate of clones, then there would be nothing Republicans, or any other party, could do to prevent a landslide. That's a reason why it's sometimes called block voting. With straight ticket voting you are right, but the odds and ability of that truly happening for city council (which is technically a non-partisan election) is almost nil (although the Dems have done about as good of a job as they could to consolidate over the last few years by making cross party endorsements from the likes of the Charter committee non-starters for the Dem endorsement). When you have 20 candidates running, I think you will always have a Republican. If you minimize the candidates the Dems could sweep. The proposal out a few years back to stagger council terms that failed (thank God) would have likely accomplished that.
March 4, 20232 yr The ballot language in the Transportation budget bill that passed the house reads as follows: "Shall the ________ (name of railway board of trustees) be authorized to sell _______ (name and description of railway or portion of railway being sold) to ______ (name of the proposed buyer) for a purchase price of ______ (amount proposed for the sale), to be paid in ____ (number of installments) installments during the years _____ (years in which an installment will be paid), with the moneys received to be deposited into a trust fund operated by _______ (railway board of trustees), with _______ (municipal corporation) as the sole beneficiary, the moneys to be annually disbursed to the municipal corporation in an amount no less than _____ (dollar amount) per year, for the purpose of the rehabilitation, modernization, or replacement of existing streets, bridges, municipal buildings, parks and green spaces, site improvements, recreation facilities, improvements for parking purposes, and any other public facilities owned by _____ (municipal corporation), and to pay for the costs of administering the trust fund." Just need to fill in the blanks assuming it makes it through the Senate.
March 15, 20232 yr Railroad booted in Senate committee from HB23: https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/15/state-lawmakers-remove-cincinnati-southern-sale-language-transportation-bill/
March 17, 20232 yr Turbulence over Cincinnati Southern Railway sale in the Ohio legislature could derail November vote Legislation needed to allow Cincinnati to sell the interstate railroad it owns to Norfolk Southern has been removed from Ohio’s transportation bill by the state Senate, imperiling a potential November vote on the plan. Negotiations between the two chambers over the bill are ongoing, and the legislation, which would allow the city to sell the railroad and put the $1.6 billion in proceeds into a trust fund that would make annual payments in perpetuity, could be revived before lawmakers adjourn at the end of June. But Mayor Aftab Pureval acknowledged Thursday the political machinations in Columbus are a setback and that without modifications to the Ferguson Act, which allowed Cincinnati to build the railroad in the 1800s, there will be no November vote. “While we are optimistic it (the state law changes) will happen, we don’t know when it will happen,” Pureval told reporters. “It is true that unless the General Assembly reforms the Ferguson Act, it can’t go to the ballot.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/16/turbulence-over-railway-sale-in-columbus-could-der.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 28, 20232 yr Somebody from Kentucky felt compelled to chime in...from what I understand they're completely wrong about Cincinnati's liability in the event of an accident.
March 28, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Lazarus said: from what I understand they're completely wrong about Cincinnati's liability in the event of an accident. Technically, they'll be sued if something happened. Will they lose? In all likelihood, no. There's some expense there in proving you're not party to the claim, and the letter to the editor here leaves out that it's pocket-change.
March 29, 20232 yr It’s back from the dead: https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/28/eleventh-hour-change-ohio-bill-paves-way-2023-vote-cincinnati-southern-sale/
March 29, 20232 yr Ohio legislators tighten requirements for spending Cincinnati Southern Railway sale proceeds Cincinnati would face more-stringent requirements for spending investment earnings stemming from the potential sale of the Cincinnati Southern Railway under legislation moving through the Ohio General Assembly. The Ohio Senate had stripped out needed language in the state transportation bill that would have allowed for the railway’s sale to Norfolk Southern at $1.6 billion, if Cincinnati voters and federal regulators approve it. But members of a legislative conference committee have reinserted it. The transportation legislation is due by April 1 and will need to be approved by both the House and the Senate. Without action by the legislature, the sale will not go to the ballot. The key change in the new proposal, if the balance in a trust fund to be created with the $1.6 billion falls by 25% or more, the city will not receive infrastructure payments until it returns to its previous level. The new rule is aimed at shoring up the trust fund and preventing the principal’s erosion in times of market turmoil. Mayor Aftab Pureval backs the changes, a spokesman told the Business Courier. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/29/ohio-lawmakers-tighten-railway-sale-spending.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 29, 20232 yr 50 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: The key change in the new proposal, if the balance in a trust fund to be created with the $1.6 billion falls by 25% or more, the city will not receive infrastructure payments until it returns to its previous level. The new rule is aimed at shoring up the trust fund and preventing the principal’s erosion in times of market turmoil. If this was triggered, would it completely screw up the city's capital budget for those years? They have a 6-year spending plan, and it's not like they can suddenly move around $56+ million.
March 30, 20232 yr Seems like this means that $60M+ of the sale needs to be kept as cash in this trust fund. Also meaning less $ benefit than originally anticipated since it's just sitting on the sidelines. Edited March 30, 20232 yr by 10albersa
March 30, 20232 yr The base level to calculate the 25% drop also increases annually as the principal grows (but never as it shrinks)
April 17, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway board members feared Norfolk Southern would try ‘end run’ around the panel As the Cincinnati Southern Railway board and Norfolk Southern approached a key deadline in their negotiations over a lease or sale of the city-owned railway, at least one member believed the railroad was attempting an “end run” around the panel. The revelation comes from emails obtained by the Business Courier through a public records request for communications about the proposed sale. The city has been periodically releasing those documents over the past few months. The Cincinnati Southern Railway board has proposed selling the railroad, which it keeps in trust on behalf of the city, to Norfolk Southern for $1.6 billion. It would put the proceeds in a trust where the investment returns would be split between the city's infrastructure needs and growing the principal. Federal regulators and voters must still approve the sale for it to happen. It is unclear when the sale will go on the ballot. On Nov. 3, 2021, Assistant City Solicitor Kaitlyn Geiger wrote board members to brief them on a conversation with Norfolk Southern officials. Norfolk Southern told Geiger its leaders would respond later that month to the railway board’s recent proposal to sell the railway for $2 billion and Norfolk Southern's position may have changed. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/04/17/railway-norfolk-southern-runaround.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 18, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees expect to decide election date for sale in May Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees will decide in May when to send the $1.6 billion sale of the asset to Norfolk Southern to city voters. The new state law governing the potential sale says the election could be held either in November 2023, March 2024 or November 2024. Quote “There will be a couple of different recommendations,” said the board’s chairman, attorney Paul Muething, at a special trustees meeting on Tuesday. “The mayor’s office will likely have an opinion. Norfolk Southern will likely have an opinion. It does potentially effect Norfolk Southern, given the provisions of the contract that allow for the price to be increased based on when it’s voted on and when the transaction closes. All of us have opinions.” “And then we break out the dart board,” quipped former Mayor Mark Mallory, a member of the board. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/04/18/southern-railway-election-date-decision.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 20232 yr What Aftab Pureval and Charlie Luken have said about railroad sale’s election date When it comes to the date the city will try to get voters to approve the $1.6 billion sale of the city-owned Cincinnati Southern Railway to Norfolk Southern, there are two important decision makers: Mayor Aftab Pureval and the board that oversees the railway. At the April 18 special meeting of the railway board, trustees declined to go into their personal views on when the railway sale should head to the voters, but the Business Courier asked both Pureval and board member Charlie Luken, a former Cincinnati mayor, what their opinions were last week. Luken previously has expressed hesitancy about sending the sale to the ballot at the same time as the City Council election on Nov. 7 when all nine members will be up for re-election. He told the Courier the derailment in East Palestine and resulting environmental disaster is still a factor, as is the ability to stand up a campaign organization in a short amount of time. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/04/20/railroad-election-date-pureval-luken.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 15, 20232 yr Chattanooga sez it's going to be The New Austin: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gig-city-is-about-to-take-a-leap-into-quantum-networking-250e5d4b?mod=home-page The Cincinnati Southern Railroad is the spine of the "Battery Belt": Batteries are extremely heavy. They need to be moved by rail, not truck. Norfolk-Southern is going to be moving those batteries, whether Cincinnati owns the railroad or not.
May 17, 20232 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway board punts on setting election date for sale The Cincinnati Southern Railway Board will wait until July to decide whether to send the $1.6 billion sale of the railway to Norfolk Southern to voters in time for the November election. In April, the board had said it expected to decide the election date on May 16. The vote was unanimous and came without discussion of the reason for the delay. If the board wants the sale to go to voters Nov. 7, it will have to decide at its next meeting, which is set for July 11. That will allow City Council to fulfill its ministerial duties to send the sale to the Hamilton County Board of Elections by Aug. 2. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/16/cincinnati-southern-railway-punts-election-date.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 28, 20231 yr Norfolk Southern could pay Cincinnati more under Southern Railway deal if voters approve it Norfolk Southern will pay the city of Cincinnati up to $20 million more if voters approve the $1.6 billion sale of the Cincinnati Southern Railway in November under an amended sale agreement approved by the railway’s trustees. The trustees approved the new sale agreement unanimously on June 27 in Cincinnati City Council chambers. The agreement was amended to take into account changes to state law approved by Ohio lawmakers and to give Norfolk Southern more time to close on the transaction, depending on when the election is held. Trustees are expected to decide on an election date in July. Under state law, the election can be held in November, March 2024 or November 2024. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/06/27/norfolk-southern-payment-increase-railroad-deal.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 13, 20231 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway sale: Mayor favors November vote as board prepares to decide The Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees will decide July 13 on when to send the $1.6 billion sale of the city-owned railroad to the voters, and it appears likely they will put it on November’s ballot. A spokesman for Mayor Aftab Pureval said the mayor’s position is that the decision is entirely up to the board, but he supports a November vote. “Given the enormous opportunity that is at stake with this vote, time is of the essence,” spokesman Jack Willingham said. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/07/12/mayor-favors-november-railway-vote.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 14, 20231 yr Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees send sale to the November ballot The Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees voted unanimously on July 13 to send the proposed $1.6 billion sale of the asset to Norfolk Southern to voters to decide upon at the Nov. 7 election. The vote came after both Mayor Aftab Pureval and Norfolk Southern officials recommended sending the measure to voters this fall instead of the presidential primary or general election in 2024. “I think this is a good transaction for the citizens of Cincinnati. I’m frankly proud of the work we’ve done. I think we’ve made the financial case as to why the citizens are better off having this money in trust and getting the interest off this which will be substantially more than what the current lease is,” said Paul Muething, the attorney who chairs the board. “If they say yes, those benefits start sooner.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/07/13/cincinnati-southern-railway-november-vote.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 14, 20231 yr I hope the voters defeat this. Publicly owned infrastructure should never be privatized. Edited July 14, 20231 yr by JaceTheAce41
July 17, 20231 yr Campaign forms to back $1.6B deal to sell Cincinnati Southern Railway The Cincinnati Southern Railway trustees approved a ballot measure for the Nov. 7 election to sell the city-owned asset to Norfolk Southern. Now, the effort needs a campaign organization and money to convince the electorate the $1.6 billion sale is in the city’s best interest. A political action committee whose goal is to pass the measure filed paperwork on July 14 with the Hamilton County Board of Elections creating the Building Cincinnati’s Future PAC. Jens Sutmoller, a longtime Cincinnati operative who has run numerous successful levy campaigns and is a key political adviser to Mayor Aftab Pureval, is listed as treasurer. Sutmoller will run the campaign. He has led levy campaigns for children’s services, mental health and libraries that voters approved in recent years. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/07/17/cincinnati-railway-next-steps-november-vote.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 17, 20231 yr My biggest concerns: 1) Proponents argue that the balance of the fund would remain at $1.6 billion, and only the annual gains would be spent. What happens if we assume the smart accountants are doing a good job, and suddenly there's a downturn in the market or bad investments and the funds largely dry up? Everyone touted the city's pension fund as being solvent, and all of a sudden the fund is in danger. I trust the railroad maintaining its value more than a trust fund. 2) If we are only keeping a $1.6 billion balance every year and not growing the principal annually to keep up with inflation, eventually the revenue generated from that fund is going to be worth a lot less. We saw that with the annual property tax cap city council kept in place at $29 Million. The cap was kept at $29 Million in revenue for the city. But $29 Million in 1999 was worth about $52 Million in 2023. So over 24 years the value of that money was only about 60% of it's original. If we are expecting a flat amount of money in perpetuity, that money returning from the fund is going to be worth less every year. If they planning on growing the principal, that limits this worry, but not the first.
July 17, 20231 yr 37 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: My biggest concerns: 1) Proponents argue that the balance of the fund would remain at $1.6 billion, and only the annual gains would be spent. What happens if we assume the smart accountants are doing a good job, and suddenly there's a downturn in the market or bad investments and the funds largely dry up? Everyone touted the city's pension fund as being solvent, and all of a sudden the fund is in danger. I trust the railroad maintaining its value more than a trust fund. 2) If we are only keeping a $1.6 billion balance every year and not growing the principal annually to keep up with inflation, eventually the revenue generated from that fund is going to be worth a lot less. We saw that with the annual property tax cap city council kept in place at $29 Million. The cap was kept at $29 Million in revenue for the city. But $29 Million in 1999 was worth about $52 Million in 2023. So over 24 years the value of that money was only about 60% of it's original. If we are expecting a flat amount of money in perpetuity, that money returning from the fund is going to be worth less every year. If they planning on growing the principal, that limits this worry, but not the first. These are the exact details of the sale if voter approced.I also know no funds can be spent if the fund dips below 1.2 billion until the principal is replenished at 1.6 billion.There are safeguards in place but like any trust it is not guaranteed to grow above 1.6 billion over time highly likely yes but not a fact. "The primary job of the CSR Board of Trustees is to manage the Cincinnati Southern Railroad as an asset for the benefit of a single beneficiary - the City of Cincinnati. We have concluded, after considering the advice of outside experts, that selling SR for $1.6 billion to create a trust fund of professionally managed financial assets will likely more than double what the City might have received from future railroad lease payments. In 2024 alone, lease proceeds are projected at approximately $26.5 million. Potential trust fund earnings of 5.5% (a conservative estimate on a $1.6 billion portfolio would be $88 million. After reinvesting 2% ($32 million) into the trust fund to ensure its continued growth, the remaining 3.5% ($56 million) would be available for improvements to City of Cincinnati existing infrastructure and SR operations."
July 18, 20231 yr I know it's bad/biased but if this sale was proposed under Cranley I would feel way worse about it than I currently do. It's probably been covered before but who picks the board members? A Board of Trustees solely in control of that money just reeks of slush fund and it makes me inherently concerned about it's investments. Will they just be investing in their buddies funds or companies?
July 18, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, ucgrady said: I know it's bad/biased but if this sale was proposed under Cranley I would feel way worse about it than I currently do. It's probably been covered before but who picks the board members? A Board of Trustees solely in control of that money just reeks of slush fund and it makes me inherently concerned about it's investments. Will they just be investing in their buddies funds or companies? The current mayor appoints railroad board members approved by a majority of council after.I believe the board actually will be dissolved if this gets approved.
August 3, 20231 yr Cincinnati City Council votes to put Southern Railway sale on November's ballot By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Aug 3, 2023 Cincinnati City Council voted to put the $1.6 billion sale of the Cincinnati Southern Railway to Norfolk Southern on the Nov. 7 ballot. Council members generally praised the plan, which calls for the sale’s proceeds to be put in trust to be used on existing infrastructure. “I think diversifying the city’s investments is critical to the financial health and stability of our city going forward,” said Councilwoman Liz Keating, council’s sole Republican and member of the Charter Committee. MORE
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