LOL they better make that building glow like Vegas to live up to the proposed name hahahaha.  But it's still awesome.  Too bad they keep building stuff behind that optic tower.  They need to get Ovation going.

One more thing.  I don't think there should be any battle between Cincy and NKU.  We must consider this one giant spot that could blossom.  Not, who built what first.  Just look at Cambridge and Boston.  Both separated by the bay but both connected and a huge entertainment spot.  Cambridge has Harvard Square and Boston has their stuff.  So, we should be happy any development at all is brought to the table.

Agreed.

One more thing.  I don't think there should be any battle between Cincy and NKU.  We must consider this one giant spot that could blossom.  Not, who built what first.  Just look at Cambridge and Boston.  Both separated by the bay but both connected and a huge entertainment spot.  Cambridge has Harvard Square and Boston has their stuff.  So, we should be happy any development at all is brought to the table.

 

THANK YOU! You people need to calm down. It's called competition. It's also not unusual for cities to have more than one big screen. Downtown Columbus has two! Nky is a large portion of our metro area, are you guys saying Kentucky doesn't deserve to have nice sh!t? Would you rather they look more like E. St. Louis?!

Do you think they were sipping coffee at that Westin hotel across from the Fountain Square when they 'envisioned' an outdoor pedestrian plaza with a huge electronic display that can be viewed from the plaza? I visioned their 'envision' right downtown Cincinnati! wow!!

I hope nobody takes offense but that covington kentucky riverfront is a boring place. I didn't see anything to do except browse the murals on the wall & take pictures of Cincinnati like everyone else. That newport at least has a walkable environment although they need more adult offerings, a lot of kids running around, is that because of the theater? I like the bookstore though. If you want a nice walk/stroll you have to walk that park on the Ohio side. They need little bike taxis because once you get to the end, of course you have to walk back. That is a long walk!! Sounds to me like they are trying to capitalize on the history of Cincinnati & fountain square. I read somewhere but I can't remember now, when fountain square was 'envisioned'/built. This isn't the first place I recall a suburb trying to mold themselves after the city.

 

Ascent builders envision plaza - ROFLOL - sorry but that is just too funny. The NERVE!!  In five years they'll want a sports stadium...

^ I'd put an NBA arena in Covington right now if the region could lure a team somehow.  Oh, and you're throwing around the term "suburb" pretty loosely there.  8-)

 

THANK YOU! You people need to calm down. It's called competition. It's also not unusual for cities to have more than one big screen. Downtown Columbus has two! Nky is a large portion of our metro area, are you guys saying Kentucky doesn't deserve to have nice sh!t? Would you rather they look more like E. St. Louis?!

 

Yeah, especially when you consider that most Cincinnatians don't go to KY for their leisure activities and vice versa.  My assumption is that because of that, this type of a plaza won't take anything away from Fountain Square, even if it turns out to be insanely popular.

This specific situation is not a big deal at all, it just seems there is a lack of original thought.

 

I would also put an NBA arena in Covington right now if the region could lure a team - what I would not do is originally have a plan for the arena to be downtown then have someone contact the potential team on the side and try to talk them into locating in Covington instead, setting off a bidding war - there is a difference. 

^ Actually, that's not a bad idea.  Somebody email Butch Callery and tell him that Mark Mallory has been talking about resurrecting the Broadway Commons plan and bringing back The Royals.  He'll be on the phone with David Stern by week's end!    :evil:

One more thing.  I don't think there should be any battle between Cincy and NKU.  We must consider this one giant spot that could blossom.  Not, who built what first.  Just look at Cambridge and Boston.  Both separated by the bay but both connected and a huge entertainment spot.  Cambridge has Harvard Square and Boston has their stuff.  So, we should be happy any development at all is brought to the table.

 

THANK YOU! You people need to calm down. It's called competition. It's also not unusual for cities to have more than one big screen. Downtown Columbus has two! Nky is a large portion of our metro area, are you guys saying Kentucky doesn't deserve to have nice sh!t? Would you rather they look more like E. St. Louis?!

 

Ditto.

 

I still have yet to find a citation or any reliable source about NKY "poach(ing) attractions and development" from Cincinnati.

 

Hey, Lexington is getting two Jumbotron screens after the 2009 World Cup Games in South Africa, to be used at our redesigned Phoenix Park, visible from the Courthouse Plaza, in downtown. Does that mean we are copying Cincinnati's model? No. The same analogy can be used for NKY. It's called competition, and it's healthy and necessary for cities to prosper and diversify.

One more thing.  I don't think there should be any battle between Cincy and NKU.  We must consider this one giant spot that could blossom.  Not, who built what first.  Just look at Cambridge and Boston.  Both separated by the bay but both connected and a huge entertainment spot.  Cambridge has Harvard Square and Boston has their stuff.  So, we should be happy any development at all is brought to the table.

 

THANK YOU! You people need to calm down. It's called competition. It's also not unusual for cities to have more than one big screen. Downtown Columbus has two! Nky is a large portion of our metro area, are you guys saying Kentucky doesn't deserve to have nice sh!t? Would you rather they look more like E. St. Louis?!

 

Agree, this is good for the basin THUS WILL be good for NKY and Cincy both.

Well, since I'm the one who obviously got everyone fired up on the topic with my comment then I'll go ahead and apologize if I offended any of you. My point was this: I just think that if they are going to build a plaza that is even remotely based off of Fountain Square then they should mention it and not act like it will be the first one in the region. Give a little credit where credit is due is all I'm asking. Having said that, I still don't think a large TV in Covington will bring many more people to the area so I still don't see the reason for it. As for the region, any development means progress, and I'm all for progress.

My point was this: I just think that if they are going to build a plaza that is even remotely based off of Fountain Square then they should mention it and not act like it will be the first one in the region. Give a little credit where credit is due is all I'm asking.

 

I'm guessing you mean the developer, but The Enquirer does mention that in its last sentence: "The screen will be like the large TV on Fountain Square. "

 

I hope nobody takes offense but that covington kentucky riverfront is a boring place. I didn't see anything to do except browse the murals on the wall & take pictures of Cincinnati like everyone else. That newport at least has a walkable environment although they need more adult offerings, a lot of kids running around, is that because of the theater? I like the bookstore though. If you want a nice walk/stroll you have to walk that park on the Ohio side.

 

There's actually a reason for that.  Traditionally, the NKY river cities fought amongst themselves and missed out on a lot of opportunities that they could have had if they had cooperated.  Some years ago they got together and decided to put this behind them and behave more or less like one city, with each town filling a role.  Covington was to be the business leader (hence the office towers, convention center, and extended stay hotels), Newport became the entertainment center (evidenced by the restaurants, bars, movies, and shopping at Newport on the Levee), and Bellevue was to get the majority of the new housing.  Obviously there are exceptions to all of this, but that is why you saw such an obvious entertainment difference between Covington and Newport.  As for Newport needing more adult offerings, historically Newport has been a little too "adult", so they're happy just to have bars and restaurants that aren't tied into gambling and stripping anymore.

Good discussion, though I really think there ought to be caveat that we can bad mouth Bill Butler without making this about NKY versus Cincy. Madison is shaping up to be quite a nice business district. It has retained its historic feel more than nearly any block in downtown besides the west side of fourth street.

I agree that competition is good in a business sense...but in reality governments can not afford to operate themselves as businesses.  Time and time again we have discussed, on this very forum, about what makes places like Cbus and Indy tick.  Their regional government certainly helps...and it also helps that they're not chopped up amongst 3 states and scores of separate cities within the same relatively small geographic area.

 

So Lex is getting two screens in their Downtown...it is the same city, same location.  The same goes for all the screens in Cbus.  What we're talking about here is not the specific issue of 1 more big screen, or a couple of more hotels.  It is the fact that Bill Butler has consistently gone out of his way to compete (in a negative sense) with Cincinnati at every single opportunity.  He has used these opportunities to bash and belittle Cincinnati at every turn.

 

Corporex has done a nice job with Ascent thus far, but one project doesn't quite give Bill Butler the benefit of the doubt yet.  This will obviously be marketed against FS and not as a separate entity.  The hotels I also find interesting since phase 1 of The Banks was potentially calling for a boutique hotel if I remember correctly.  This seems like a direct attempt to try to compete in an unproductive manner once again.

 

I would love for the entire riverfront to be a bustling place, and I think better of this region than we can only do it if we compete and snatch projects away from one another...thus wasting limited resources to keep things in the same geographic region that does nothing more but give more taxpayer dollars to companies for maintaining the status quo.

 

Seicer, as a Nky booster and a KY resident you should expect more from your communities in my opinion.  I have high expectations for this region and want to see Nky go in a unique direction that Cincinnati can not.  They need to continue their residential living, along the river, for the baby boomers and co.  They need to keep reaching towards the river and continue developing recreational marinas, boardwalks, riverfront parks, etc...and most importantly this should all be done to compliment the things going on in Cincinnati that can not and probably should not be done in Nky (i.e. large scale projects).  Nky boast beautiful residential housing stock that should not be tarnished for the betterment of Bill Butler's wallet (i.e. Ovation).  I just suggest that Nky do what they do best and not compete with Cincy for the things that it is trying to do.  Specialization is key.

 

NOTE: These are more general comments than they are directed specifically towards Illuminations.

But Bill Butler != Northern Kentucky. Nor should he be the sole representative of the region. People use Bill Butler as a rod for their lighting, and that should not be the case here. He's done some great development projects, yet he has had quite a few misses. Every major player has had that. People seem to forget some of the misses in Cincinnati -- along the river -- and focus solely on the negativities of a project in Northern Kentucky or elsewhere. Remember Adam's Point and it's troubles? At least that has been resolved and it is a successful and vibrant project that has spurred development along the "Gold Coast."

 

A boutique hotel does not compete in the same sense as a regular, chain hotel. A boutique hotel typically commands higher prices for rooms, are more tailored to the individual's needs, and are operated completely different. See the 21c boutique hotel in Louisville for something similar; it doesn't compete on the level of the adjacent Radisson or Brown Hotel.

 

I agree that specialization is the key. And with the individual cities in Northern Kentucky now at least cooperating on what is best for the region and not necessarily for the cities themselves -- i.e. what Jimmy James stated from a previous news article, there is now more leeway to do just that.

there ought to be caveat that we can bad mouth Bill Butler without making this about NKY versus Cincy

 

I guess that's the one truth here.  There's a reason why Corporex is widely known in the real estate community as the largest alumni base in the industry.

I still say in general NKY does not act or think regionally, they are thinking of what is best for them.  Didn't Newport approach the developer about moving the aquarium from the riverfront?  Where was Hofbrauhaus going until they were contacted again and again?  When Findlay Market was having trouble negotiating with some tenants, didn't Callery try to talk them into going to Covington?  When the Blue Wisp was moving who tried to get them to move there?  When the city started talking about getting the USS Cincinnati, didn't Newport put together an effort to get it? And whenever any downtown company looks for new space who consistently tries to lure them with tax incentives?  Hey Reading already has a wedding district, let's put one in Covington.  I just don't think it is a good idea to pay extra to try to get something already in the region or simply copy what is already here. 

 

On the other hand if a developer wants to build a condo on the river or if NKY attracts a new company to the region such as Ashland great. 

^ I didn't want to go down this road because we're getting dangerously off topic, but what evidence would you offer that Cincinnati thinks regionally, wanting the best for NKY?

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the Aquarium and The Hofbrauhaus were both supposed to be part of The Banks originally, and if Cincy and Hamilton County had gotten their s*** together and built the thing instead of fighting over it for 10 years, they'd both be in Cincinnati right now.  And let's be real here, if Newport hadn't gotten them when Cincinnati dropped the ball then either A) they'd be in Mason or Kenwood now or B) they wouldn't be in the region at all (like the oft-rumored ESPNzone at The Banks).  The fact is that they're both attractions that are adjacent to downtown, which likely wouldn't have been the case "if KY hadn't stolen them". 

 

Findlay Market is an amazing asset that the city has overlooked for decades, doing virtually nothing to invest in it or to stop the area surrounding it from deteriorating (thank God they're finally turning the tide with 3CDC and The Streetcar).  At the time that Covington was in talks with them, the continual slide of OTR seemed certain and Cincy had no credible plan to address this, meaning that Cincy was putting the future of Findley Market in jeopardy.  You can hardly blame Covington for recognizing the value of a threatened treasure like Findlay Market, and you can hardly blame the Market for listening.  I'd also like to point out that since that time, somehow Cincinnati woke up and took notice, and is now putting up a real effort to revitalize around Findlay Market.  We can all be happy about that.

 

As for Convergys and other examples like Cincinnati Bell, Ohio has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country (I'll look for the stat and update if I find it).  If you want companies and jobs to stay on the OH side of the river, work for change to encourage them to do so.

 

/EDIT: Ohio has the 14th highest state corporate tax rate out of the 50 states, in a country that already has the highest national corporate tax rate in the world.  Info from http://www.residual-rewards.com/ohio-corporation.html

 

I don't know much about the USS Cincinnati or Blue Wisp situations, so I won't comment on those.  But it seems to me that most of the projects that get cited routinely are ones where the company or developer would have preferred to be in Cincinnati, but chose NKY when Cincy made it too difficult to do otherwise.  NKY basically sits there and says "we know that we're not your first choice, but if they don't want to work with you, we will."  And the fact is that the flow will always be this way because Cincinnati is always going to get offered more high profile projects than KY, so there is little opportunity for the opposite to happen.  The Hofbrauhaus is a perfect example of the kind of project that no one would ever offer KY first.  Do you really think that the owners of The Hofbrauhaus in Munich were dreaming of putting a location in Newport, KY?  That was a last resort when it became clear that Hofbrauhaus Zinzinnati wasn't going to happen.

 

The whole region has lost out over time because of greed, jealousy, and bickering amongst communities.  In KY it was between the river cities.  In OH it was between Cincy and Hamilton County.  KY started to put the past behind them a long time ago with their Vision 2015 program and the SouthShore movement, and thankfully Cincinnati seems to be following suit with the 3CDC, by finally starting The Banks, and with Agenda 360 (inspired by Vision 2015).  Let's hope this is just the beginning and eventually KY and OH can learn to get along as well.

^ I didn't want to go down this road because we're getting dangerously off topic, but what evidence would you offer that Cincinnati thinks regionally, wanting the best for NKY?

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the Aquarium and The Hofbrauhaus were both supposed to be part of The Banks originally, and if Cincy and Hamilton County had gotten their s*** together and built the thing instead of fighting over it for 10 years, they'd both be in Cincinnati right now.  And let's be real here, if Newport hadn't gotten them when Cincinnati dropped the ball then either A) they'd be in Mason or Kenwood now or B) they wouldn't be in the region at all (like the oft-rumored ESPNzone at The Banks).  The fact is that they're both attractions that are adjacent to downtown, which likely wouldn't have been the case "if KY hadn't stolen them". 

 

Findlay Market is an amazing asset that the city has overlooked for decades, doing virtually nothing to invest in it or to stop the area surrounding it from deteriorating (thank God they're finally turning the tide with 3CDC and The Streetcar).  At the time that Covington was in talks with them, the continual slide of OTR seemed certain and Cincy had no credible plan to address this, meaning that Cincy was putting the future of Findley Market in jeopardy.  You can hardly blame Covington for recognizing the value of a threatened treasure like Findlay Market, and you can hardly blame the Market for listening.  I'd also like to point out that since that time, somehow Cincinnati woke up and took notice, and is now putting up a real effort to revitalize around Findlay Market.  We can all be happy about that.

 

As for Convergys and other examples like Cincinnati Bell, Ohio has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country (I'll look for the stat and update if I find it).  If you want companies and jobs to stay on the OH side of the river, work for change to encourage this.

 

I don't know much about the USS Cincinnati or Blue Wisp situations, so I won't comment on those.  But it seems to me that most of the projects that get cited routinely are ones where the company or developer would have preferred to be in Cincinnati, but chose NKY when Cincy made it too difficult to do otherwise.  NKY basically sits there and says "we know that we're not your first choice, but if they don't want to work with you, we will."  And the fact is that the flow will always be this way because Cincinnati is always going to get offered more high profile projects than KY, so there is little opportunity for the opposite to happen.  The Hofbrauhaus is a perfect example of the kind of project that no one would ever offer KY first.  Do you really think that the owners of The Hofbrauhaus in Munich were dreaming of putting a location in Newport, KY?  That was a last resort when it became clear that Hofbrauhaus Zinzinnati wasn't going to happen.

 

The whole region has lost out over time because of greed, jealousy, and bickering amongst communities.  In KY it was between the river cities.  In OH it was between Cincy and Hamilton County.  KY started to put the past behind them a long time ago with their Vision 2015 program and the SouthShore movement, and thankfully Cincinnati seems to be following suit with the 3CDC, by finally starting The Banks, and with Agenda 360 (inspired by Vision 2015).  Let's hope this is just the beginning and eventually KY and OH can learn to get along as well.

 

Mind-blowing post.

^Beautifully stated.  Like I said before, NKY and downtown Cincy should come together as one giant metropolis.  All the ingrediants are there too.  I was raised a republican but as I've gotten older I've become more moderate than anything.  Cincinnati is super conservative and there's nothing wrong with conservative values at all.  But when it bleeds into the growth of a downtown, it becomes a gigantic mess of "oh no, that's TOO edgy to have here." People are now complaining that QCS tower will be too tall or that the streetcar construction will "tear" up the roads....BWAHAHAHAHA give me a break.  Your right about 3CDC.  They're doing an outstanding job.  If Illuminations helps Convington than so be it!  if it means Convington will have a bigger downtown to attract more things than so be it.  Great.  Let's get this rolling.  There's so much friggin' space to build in the valley it's ridiculous.

I can see your sentiment, but what the approach has done is cost everyone more to do business.  You now consistently see businesses pit states against each other - this was not because Ohio had a certain corporate tax rate, but because Kentucky was offering tax breaks.  In the end, although downtown has obviously kept most of the companies, those companies generate less tax revenue.  Same thing goes for a business that is charged half the rent to move - the owner sees less revenue.  This is my opinion, but I just don't view NKY as stepping in to save something that will either leave or not happen if they don't. 

You now consistently see businesses pit states against each other

 

Yes, that does happen unfortunately.  I'm not sure that this situation is different in any area with a nearby border, though.

 

this was not because Ohio had a certain corporate tax rate, but because Kentucky was offering tax breaks.

 

I'd argue that it is both.  The company begins to look elsewhere because of high tax rates, and another state takes advantage of this by giving tax breaks to sweeten the deal.  KY is encouraging the process, but the ball wouldn't have started rolling if the OH tax burden was lower.  The US is just starting to see the negative impact of high corporate taxes on a global level as well, where our corporations are beginning to have trouble competing with competitors based in countries with much lower corporate tax rates.

 

This is my opinion, but I just don't view NKY as stepping in to save something that will either leave or not happen if they don't.

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue that they're doing it for altruistic reasons, but that the net result is that something is here that wouldn't be otherwise.  For example, I'd like The Hofbrauhaus whether it was in KY or OH.  I'd argue that without Newport, the closest location would be the one in Las Vegas.  NKY is definitely trying to make a buck, but I don't think that they're actively trying to screw Cincinnati; at worst they're just capitalizing on Cincy's mistakes as they happen.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Oh! The Drama.... I was just amused by the 'envisioned' part of the story. I was never implying that they should not build their plaza. I am all for great public spaces/areas. From some of the comments it sounds like kentucky likes to play copycat. Thats become the american way anyhow, keeping up with the joneses. I don't think anyone really cares if they build that plaza, its the way they try to give people a sense it is something new. It seems everyone here agrees that it would be a nice addition to the area, BUT, give credit where credit is due because in all actuality they want the same synergy that fountain square offers. For anyone who hasn't been to fountain square, the only thing that is the same after the renovation is the fountain itself, I know this from first hand experience. If the fountain square wasn't successful, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The people responsible for the success of fountain square received a sincere form of flattery from that article...

My point was this: I just think that if they are going to build a plaza that is even remotely based off of Fountain Square then they should mention it and not act like it will be the first one in the region. Give a little credit where credit is due is all I'm asking.

 

I'm guessing you mean the developer, but The Enquirer does mention that in its last sentence: "The screen will be like the large TV on Fountain Square. "

 

I hope nobody takes offense but that covington kentucky riverfront is a boring place. I didn't see anything to do except browse the murals on the wall & take pictures of Cincinnati like everyone else. That newport at least has a walkable environment although they need more adult offerings, a lot of kids running around, is that because of the theater? I like the bookstore though. If you want a nice walk/stroll you have to walk that park on the Ohio side.

 

There's actually a reason for that.  Traditionally, the NKY river cities fought amongst themselves and missed out on a lot of opportunities that they could have had if they had cooperated.  Some years ago they got together and decided to put this behind them and behave more or less like one city, with each town filling a role.  Covington was to be the business leader (hence the office towers, convention center, and extended stay hotels), Newport became the entertainment center (evidenced by the restaurants, bars, movies, and shopping at Newport on the Levee), and Bellevue was to get the majority of the new housing.  Obviously there are exceptions to all of this, but that is why you saw such an obvious entertainment difference between Covington and Newport.  As for Newport needing more adult offerings, historically Newport has been a little too "adult", so they're happy just to have bars and restaurants that aren't tied into gambling and stripping anymore.

 

I should have been more specific Jimmy_James, I am aware of newports reputation of crime/gambling/mob/strip clubs. What I was actually referring to was the newport on the levee mall. The only other part of newport I can recall is the white castle across from that huge bell in the middle of that parking lot. BTW, that poor bell... :'(  I think they should move it to that area just north of the suspension bridge by the underground freedom center, I think it would look good there coming across that bridge & people would actually see it instead of being hidden in the middle of a parking lot, thats weird...

 

Looks like covington is the one who lost that little city battle they had going on, at least when it comes to the riverfront because their riverfront just, sorry I have to say it, sucks!!

At least newport took the hint from cincinnati & offered a view & made a little walkable area even if it is a mall.

 

^ Yeah, Newport on the Levee does have an identity crises.  It's a bizarre mismash of upscale restaurants, bars, and stores like Claire's and Hot Topic which are aimed at 14-year-olds.  I'm not sure what the problem is, but they haven't quite got it right yet.  It seems like they're making a ton of money though, so hopefully they'll work out the kinks eventually.

 

Covington's riverfront does suck, but it's slowly improving.  You should have seen it 15 years ago.  If they could get the IRS to move into a tower, they'd really have some real estate to work with.  I'm sure that will happen in time. 

 

I couldn't agree more about that bell.  It looks totally out of place where it is. 

And I'd argue that Newport on the Levee is the least walkable part of downtown Newport.  I like having it there for the restaurants, the movies, and the festivals on an almost weekly basis, but if we're talking about walkability, the Monmouth/York Street district is better, in my opinion.

I don't want to get into this, but I wonder how some of the restaurants at the Levee will react as the Banks is being built up?

 

For instance, I just can't see the Hofbrauhaus staying where it is right now? I think B&N will probably stay put, but I also question the future of AMC?

 

What do you guys think, especially those of you that live in NOKY?

Hmm.. I wonder if Hafbrahaus would move. I suppose it would be tempting. If Newport incentivizes someone to stay, are they obligated under some sort of contract to stay?

 

As far as the arena concept-- arenas and stadiums are more about vanity than a good cost/benefit ratio. I HOPE NKY gets an arena and wins in a bidding war. They would be paying more money than they should!  Cincinnati would benefit by having the world class downtown restaurants catering to those who go to the event and want to have fun afterwards.

NKY Failures:

 

Covington Landing -- dead

Imax Theater -- dead

Millenium Bell -- hasn't rung in years

Millenium Tower -- still waiting for it

Purple People Bridge Climb -- dead

Purple People Bridge -- not purple anymore

Suspension Bridge -- long overdue for repainting

Ovation -- no news

Covington Rivercenter -- heavily subsidized, city-built parking garages

NOTL -- not making money.  Has never been over 60% occupied and even then anchor stores weren't paying market rent or any at all.  Aren't charging the major tenants market rent.   

Hofbrauhaus -- who cares?

 

Southgate House -- the real thing but of course the masses prefer immitations to the real thing.

 

 

 

You conveniently forgot to mention Mainstrasse!

^ Yeah, Newport on the Levee does have an identity crises.  It's a bizarre mismash of upscale restaurants, bars, and stores like Claire's and Hot Topic which are aimed at 14-year-olds.  I'm not sure what the problem is, but they haven't quite got it right yet.  It seems like they're making a ton of money though, so hopefully they'll work out the kinks eventually.

 

Little known fact, but they're not.

Hmm.. I wonder if Hafbrahaus would move. I suppose it would be tempting. If Newport incentivizes someone to stay, are they obligated under some sort of contract to stay?

 

Originally, my thought was (I was literally writing this): Highly doubtful.  Newport built their building and used state tax credits to do it.  Few million bucks.  Plus, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  The place is always packed...  :-o

 

Then, the light went on:  most likely, the only way to do so would be if they wanted a bigger location.  Probably not too much room to grow in their current facility.  Maybe their parking lot.  It would probably be a bidding war between sides, and ultimately the Haufbrahaus would be spending next to nothing. 

 

Although, I'm sure their lease is very long term, assuming they're not the owner proper.  I'm sure there's a hefty buyout clause that Cincy would have to forfeit should the luring take place.

NKY Failures:

 

Covington Landing -- dead

Imax Theater -- dead

Millenium Bell -- hasn't rung in years

Millenium Tower -- still waiting for it

Purple People Bridge Climb -- dead

Purple People Bridge -- not purple anymore

Suspension Bridge -- long overdue for repainting

Ovation -- no news

Covington Rivercenter -- heavily subsidized, city-built parking garages

NOTL -- not making money.  Has never been over 60% occupied and even then anchor stores weren't paying market rent or any at all.  Aren't charging the major tenants market rent.   

Hofbrauhaus -- who cares?

 

Southgate House -- the real thing but of course the masses prefer immitations to the real thing.

 

 

Wow.  Biased at all there, jmeck?  Who said anything even remotely suggesting that KY doesn't make any mistakes?  Regardless, you're wrong or overstating about half of those.  Let me set you straight:

 

Covington Landing: not totally dead.  in the midst of a redesign.

Imax: Yes, it is unfortunately dead.

Millenium Bell: Rings every day at noon.  I heard it last week.

Millenium Tower: Thankfully dead.

Bridge Climb: Possibly reopening under new management in 2009.

Purple People Bridge: Scheduled for a repaint next year.

Suspension Bridge: Scheduled for a repaint late 2008/early 2009.

Rivercenter: Subsidized, city built garages; are you sure we aren't talking about The Banks?  :evil:

Ovation: No news is good news.

NOTL: Not disputing this, but I'd love to see a source for this info.

Hofbrauhaus: I care. Awesome beer and the best Biergarten in town.

Southgatehaus: Yeah, that place is pretty cool.

 

 

This KY vs OH stuff is getting old fast.  Can we get back to talking about Illuminations please?

Please. These KY versus OH threads were old a year ago. How many more threads can be infested with this crap?

I don't want to get into this, but I wonder how some of the restaurants at the Levee will react as the Banks is being built up?

 

For instance, I just can't see the Hofbrauhaus staying where it is right now? I think B&N will probably stay put, but I also question the future of AMC?

 

What do you guys think, especially those of you that live in NOKY?

 

I don't see them competing too much.  A lot of people in KY won't go to OH and vice versa.  AMC is safe because it's easily the best theater in KY, and a lot of people like going to NOTL because they can get dinner before or drinks after a movie.  I know some people have said that NOTL isn't making money, but I don't see how that's possible because they are slammed every night and all day Saturday and Sunday.  They're dead during lunch on weekdays, but that's about it.  Yeah, they need to address their retail vacancy rate, but I think they're trying to do that by bringing more people in via leasing office space and planning that hotel.

 

I do wonder about The Hofbrauhaus, though.  Tough to say for sure, but I could see that going either way eventually.

 

It will be interesting to see how NOTL and The Banks coexist.

NOTL and The Banks, instead of being in a huge competition, should actually become one giant hot spot for the midwest.  Since my mind is insane, I predict by the year 2050, the entire riverfront will be littered with high rise condos everywhere(not including HQ's and other development).  I'm even talking about the hills becoming home to condos everywhere.  The area surrounding Union Terminal will be insane looking.  This area will take off and within these next five years, we'll be witnessing the most action this place has seen since immigrants settled here.  Pretty kickass.

^ I hope you're right.  The future certainly looks promising, I'll give you that.

I don't want to get into this, but I wonder how some of the restaurants at the Levee will react as the Banks is being built up?

 

For instance, I just can't see the Hofbrauhaus staying where it is right now? I think B&N will probably stay put, but I also question the future of AMC?

 

What do you guys think, especially those of you that live in NOKY?

 

I don't see them competing too much.  A lot of people in KY won't go to OH and vice versa.  AMC is safe because it's easily the best theater in KY, and a lot of people like going to NOTL because they can get dinner before or drinks after a movie.  I know some people have said that NOTL isn't making money, but I don't see how that's possible because they are slammed every night and all day Saturday and Sunday.  They're dead during lunch on weekdays, but that's about it.  Yeah, they need to address their retail vacancy rate, but I think they're trying to do that by bringing more people in via leasing office space and planning that hotel.

 

I do wonder about The Hofbrauhaus, though.  Tough to say for sure, but I could see that going either way eventually.

 

It will be interesting to see how NOTL and The Banks coexist.

 

I think the Cinema De Lux in Florence is most definitely going to be the best theatre in NOKY. The CDL18 in Springdale is my favorite in the region by far.

 

The thing with NOTL is that the majority of those plates in the surface lot next to NOTL are OH plates, that's why I think things might change.

 

Newport:

The median income for a household in the city was $27,451, and the median income for a family was $32,858. Males had a median income of $29,337 versus $22,723 for females. The per capita income for the city was $15,207. About 20.7% of families and 22.3% of the population were below the poverty line, including 31.1% of those under age 18 and 16.3% of those age 65 or over.

 

This info above is why I think we might not actually see an even balance between the two. Covington's stats are very similar.

 

I think the comment about NOTL struggling isn't too far fetched, mainly because a large percentage of Newport'ers don't have the disposable income for entertainment. When I would walk to NOTL to catch the TANK when I lived there it was pretty much dead all day every day. It's definitely more suited for the restaurants and bars.

 

One thing that I would do, is bring in more local restaurants. That alone would create a more unique environment. I love Claddagh's fish and chips though!

 

 

 

There's more affluent suburban communities outside of Covington and Newport that support the Levee out of convenience. I really think people in Cincinnati are just over it, minus teenagers at the AMC Theater. We have too many options up here with Kenwood, Deerfield Town Center, Rookwood, Union Center, etc. Unless they do something very new and innovative with the Levee which rarely happens with malls unless it's a safe bet like Kenwood which is close to the wealthiest community in the entire region.

^^ Yeah.  I'd change A LOT of things about NOTL if I were running things.  Local restaurants are a great idea.  They have Dewey's, but that's about it.  I'm not sure about that Cinema De Lux.  I think the people in Union and Florence will like it, but I'm not driving all the way out there to catch a movie.  I used to drive to Springdale (awesome theater), but that was a long time ago when good movie theaters were hard to come by.  I think AMC should be more concerned about a potential theater at The Banks than the new one in Florence.

 

Having grown up in KY, I know a ton of people from Fort Wright, Fort Mitchell, Park Hills, Fort Thomas, etc who will go to Mainstrasse or NOTL but won't ever go to Mt Adams, Downtown, Clifton, or Northside, for example.  These people are likely to keep going to NOTL.

 

 

 

Back to Illuminations, the site that they are proposing is pretty small.  Will there really be room for two hotels and a plaza?  Maybe I'm think of the wrong place.  Is this the parking lot between the Ascent and Roebling Row where people tailgate for Bengals games?

 

 

 

 

Back to Illuminations, the site that they are proposing is pretty small.  Will there really be room for two hotels and a plaza?  Maybe I'm think of the wrong place.  Is this the parking lot between the Ascent and Roebling Row where people tailgate for Bengals games?

 

 

 

I think it's approximately the same depth as the land where Rivercenter is across the street, just not as long.

Changed the thread name as the usage of the land has changed.

I hope that they get built but I pray that they are attractive. I like the look of the Ascent but I don't think they should base the design off of this. Have there been any renderings floating around? I know it's new but I would just like a visual.

NKY Failures:

 

Covington Landing -- dead

Imax Theater -- dead

Millenium Bell -- hasn't rung in years

Millenium Tower -- still waiting for it

Purple People Bridge Climb -- dead

Purple People Bridge -- not purple anymore

Suspension Bridge -- long overdue for repainting

Ovation -- no news

Covington Rivercenter -- heavily subsidized, city-built parking garages

NOTL -- not making money.  Has never been over 60% occupied and even then anchor stores weren't paying market rent or any at all.  Aren't charging the major tenants market rent.   

Hofbrauhaus -- who cares?

 

Southgate House -- the real thing but of course the masses prefer immitations to the real thing.

 

 

 

 

I think your point got lost by over stretching.  I would hardly call the purple people bridge a failure because the paint has faded. Including the suspension bridge on a list of failures because it is due for a repaint is also pretty silly.

 

AMC seems to be making good money based on the crowds.  It has one of the nicer projection and sounds setups around.  No dim bulbs, no movies shown in the wrong apsect ratio, etc.

 

Hofbrauhaus seems to be pulling in the crowds as well.

 

As for the rest, I could add my own set from the Cincinnati side. 

 

The crappy mall that used to be next to the Hyatt by the convention center (about the same age as covington landing), that lame attempt of a mall in Union Terminal, Tower Place Mall, the Main Street Entertainment district, etc.

 

These types of things tend to be cyclical everywhere.  This year's hot urban destination becomes the crap of tomorrow as soon as something newer comes along to replace it, and all of the successful venues abandon the old for the new (stores, restaurants, and entertainment venues).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Cincinnati, but the on-point examples of failures (that whole bell thing in newport for example) got lost in all the padding.

I think that others have taken care of the "NKY 'failures'" above, but I'd like to add that paint on any exterior surface will fade over time. The purple on the Purple People Bridge was last painted quite a few years ago, and most paints will last 20 years before needing a new application. Of course, that is unless the paint is a more vivid color (i.e. one that isn't battleship gray), by which the paint's lifespan is only around 10 years.

 

Hey, at least you didn't spend over $60 million to paint one bridge in Louisville!

 

The suspension bridge may be needing a paint job, but it's in no way rusting or in dire need. Paint lifespans are 20 years on average, and the blue hue tends to degrade well into a light blue, so it's not really that bad.

Luxury condos feature views of river, city

 

The final phase of WatersEdge - a luxury riverside condominium development in Bellevue - is on track to be complete by spring of 2009.  Last month, Covington-based Joshua One broke ground on the seven-story tower, which will house 12 condominiums priced from the mid-$900,000s to more than $1 million. 

 

Each unit has 3,200-square-foot floor plans and 600-square-foot terraces overlooking the Ohio River and the Cincinnati skyline.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080521/BIZ01/805210326/1076/BIZ

As much as I love the constant ego-battles between Cincy and Nky...can we try to keep this thread on topic by discussing the actual project proposal?

 

Too many threads have gone the way of the typical Nky v. Cincinnati pissing match.

 

With that said, I think that Covington should stick with the residential proposal for this site and not overload the market with even more hotels.  The Banks has been proposing its own boutique hotel and is on a faster timeline than this project.  Nky has been doing well with residential projects and that seems to be a pretty good niche for them.  Wait out this bad market and go forth with a project that will be sustainable long-term.

Hotels allowed to grow tall

Corporex gets break on zoning

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | [email protected]

 

COVINGTON - It was easy for the Covington Board of Adjustment to grant permission for Corporex Cos. to build a pair of hotels two and five stories above the zoning code's recommended limit.

 

It was very easy after City Manager Jay Fossett, who had worked closely with the Covington-based developer, told the board the code's five-story limit had been set for the city's central business district in general.

 

...

 

http://news.nky.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080522/NEWS0103/805220368

I say, don't be scared Covington!    Go higher,  22-30 stories..  :wink:

Three residents expressed concerns about the television, arguing it could cause visual pollution that runs against Covington's historic image. They also suggested owners of the Ascent condominiums be directly notified.

 

Seriously?  That whole district IS visual pollution that runs against Covington's historic image!  Is that really their argument against the video screen?  How in the hell does The Ascent fit in with a "historic image"?  Not to mention the rest of those pink highrises, that nasty old courthouse, the massive one story IRS complex, and the fast food district nearby.  I like Covington, I'm excited to see new development there, and it has a lot of architectural gems waiting for restoration, but it waived goodbye to most of its historic riverfront charm long, long ago.

^well put!      I love the fast food district.