October 4, 201014 yr ^ tooo taaallllll?!!?!! :-o :laugh: the base is not gehry. its a public school designed by the same hacks that design all new public schools these days. the school base was a trade-off for the ratners being allowed to build the tower. it's much needed as new downtown residential is booming. "trade-off?" that's a nice way of putting it. Maybe the great Gehry (as the world's biggest starchitect), in an act of public munificence, should have at least come up with a design--pro bono (gasp!)--more compatible with his own building. It just looks ridiculous as it is. And yes, even in Manhattan a building can be too tall. This building is totally out of scale in its proximity to City Hall and the Brooklyn Bridge, drawing too much attention away from, and sadly overwhelming, these iconic historic landmarks. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
October 4, 201014 yr Like I have been saying, the means/rationale are irrelevant... so long as your 'end result' conclusion on every single issue falls in line.
October 5, 201014 yr Like I have been saying, the means/rationale are irrelevant... so long as your 'end result' conclusion on every single issue falls in line. Wrong. I actually care about preservation. The ground zero mosque is unpopular for a lot of good reasons but at the end of the day not much actually changes if it is moved.
October 5, 201014 yr Nevermind the premise of this article, it's kind of odd and a hell of a stretch, even for somebody like me who has studied symbolism in architecture quite a bit. It does, however, have a look at some of the early renderings for the project. It looks like something I see designed by sophomores in architecture school all the time: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317314/Ground-Zero-mosque-First-look-plans-New-York-Islamic-centre.html
October 5, 201014 yr In another interesting note, if you go to the architects website and click on the renderings of this project, they are labeled as "Ground Zero," as Curbed points out: http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/10/01/park51_architects_say_mosque_is_in_fact_at_ground_zero.php I think it's safe to say we change the name of this thread back to Ground Zero Mosque, no?!
October 5, 201014 yr ^ No, I would say "Ground Zero" is just the site the WTC complex used to occupy, and maybe the streets that bound it. The mosque is really close to that site, though, so I don't really mind people calling it that. I think it's similar to people who call it a "community center;" they're both just descriptive names focusing on some aspect of the project. Yes, there is some aspect within the mixed-use occupancy that qualifies as a "community center" and yes it is very close to Ground Zero.
October 5, 201014 yr It's not really the hacks that design schools, or Gehry for that matter, that are to blame for the ugliness of schools with condos on top that are popping up everywhere in Manhattam; it's the School Construction Authority.
October 5, 201014 yr Calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque" seems to inflame the prevalent irrational and purely emotional reactions to the project. As a descriptor it was fine, but now it is just a means of propoganda from one side of the debate or the other.
October 5, 201014 yr I kind of like it. In a Chicago aqua building kind of way. It's a welcome divergence from all the generic condo/apartment towers that mushroomed in both cities during the last boom. And without being hideous like that William Beaver garbage. And FYI, I believe the base is indeed designed by Gehry. He may have had constraints, but the brick facade seems to have been all Gehry: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/realestate/10posting.html.
October 5, 201014 yr Calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque" seems to inflame the prevalent irrational and purely emotional reactions to the project. As a descriptor it was fine, but now it is just a means of propoganda from one side of the debate or the other. but the term "Ground Zero" is also used reverentially by those who want memorialize those who died there. If the proponents of the mosque are pure in their professed respect for the victims of 9/11, then the term shouldn't be construed as inflammatory in any way. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
October 5, 201014 yr It's not the 'proponents' of the mosque whose emotions are being inflamed by the misrepresentation.
October 11, 201014 yr Author ^ well i'll be, thats not what i had heard previously, but yep, that's what it says. kind of makes sense in the gehry oeuvre too when you think about it, he loves to explode familiar styles: "Not all of the building is covered in stainless steel. Mr. Gehry designed a simple brick enclosure for what may turn out to be one of the building’s chief selling points: an elementary school at the base, with room for 630 students. He said that he deliberately made the school of brick — even after Mr. Ratner offered to pick up the tab if he wanted to continue the undulating metal facade all the way down to the ground. “I wanted to make the base part of the neighborhood,” the architect said." ^ however, the whole article smaks of developerspeak. given the history of this building, i just dont fully trust that gehry is the sole designer of the school anymore than i trust that ratner ever offered to build wavy all the way down, but i do trust that the architect is defensive of his employer. it also says they always intended the flat side and that it cost the same as the wavy undulating parts. maybe, except that we had always read otherwise about this oft-delayed building. that is, that in reality it was value-engineered as the market fell off. the base is not gehry. its a public school designed by the same hacks that design all new public schools these days. the school base was a trade-off for the ratners being allowed to build the tower. it's much needed as new downtown residential is booming. "trade-off?" that's a nice way of putting it. Maybe the great Gehry (as the world's biggest starchitect), in an act of public munificence, should have at least come up with a design--pro bono (gasp!)--more compatible with his own building. It just looks ridiculous as it is. developers make all kinds of trade-offs in order to build. from low income apt allotments, to public plazas, to subway entrances (see the new boa building), to schools, to whatver. i dont get your problem here. just the looks of it? have you looked just to the east? even unfinished that school is already the taj mahal by comparison. ^ tooo taaallllll?!!?!! :-o :laugh: And yes, even in Manhattan a building can be too tall. This building is totally out of scale in its proximity to City Hall and the Brooklyn Bridge, drawing too much attention away from, and sadly overwhelming, these iconic historic landmarks. poor don. you are cut from the type that want to kill the moma spire too, arent ya? "it'll wreck my views!!!" heh. here for one thing your arguement is long over as both of those icons were already surrounded by much taller structures long long ago. in fact just that hellishly fugly verizon switching tower does more to destroy views of downtown and the bb than a dozen beekmans would! i have some additional bad news for you, the new 1wtc view is going to be seriously blocked out by other wtc buildings too and also from every view with the brooklyn bridge -- see the elevation renders for yourself: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123628&page=512
March 8, 201114 yr Author time for an update yet?!! :laugh: from last wkend, among other things around the atlantic yards this the new barclays nets arena going up -- courtesy of cleveland's forest city ratner developers:
March 8, 201114 yr Author a view i caught with the cellphone from the manhattan bridge recently that includes woolworth and the new wtc:
April 4, 201114 yr Author since i was downtown over the weekend, hear are a few more -- i think the rental office has opened, but it still has scaffolding:
July 28, 201113 yr Author more arena, more protests: ATLANTIC YARDSVILLE—The heat can't stop the anti-Atlantic Yards sentiment—it just comes out earlier in the morning. People for Political and Economic Empowerment will be holding a rally at 9:30 tomorrow morning "to protest the lack of promised jobs at Forest City Ratner's Atlantic Yards site and other development sites in the greater Downtown Brooklyn area," according to a press release from Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn. The rally will start at the corner of Atlantic and Sixth avenues. [CurbedWire Inbox] http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/07/26/jobs_protest_at_atlantic_yards_vinegar_hill_condo_changes_brokers.php
July 28, 201113 yr Looks like this project has the potential to and will come out very nice. Just seems like from the politics and economics end the thing is a mess.
September 21, 201113 yr Author this idea is inspiring although kind of out there, but its getting local publicity lately. it's a plan to turn an old abandoned manhattan underground trolley terminal into a two acre underground park: The Low Line A plan for a new park banks on subterranean photosynthesis. 13 Comments Published Sep 16, 2011 as it appears today as it appeared back in the day (delancey street, 1919) trolley terminal still in action in this 1935 photo (it was abandoned in 1948 during the 'streetcar holocaust') a render read and see more here: http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/the-low-line-2011-9/ and here: http://www.thelodownny.com/leslog/2011/09/a-conversation-with-the-low-line-team.html Q&A: http://gothamist.com/2011/09/20/your_basic_low_line_questions_answe.php#photo-1 the old terminal: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/willb.html
September 23, 201113 yr ^ A sunken garden? On the other side of the bridge...in Brooklyn somewhere...is this place called Gowanus Creek, that sort of snakes its way into Brooklyn as sort of channelized watercourse. I recall reading way back that they were talking about doing some sort of restoration of it. Have you heard anything about this?
September 23, 201113 yr Author ^ A sunken garden? On the other side of the bridge...in Brooklyn somewhere...is this place called Gowanus Creek, that sort of snakes its way into Brooklyn as sort of channelized watercourse. I recall reading way back that they were talking about doing some sort of restoration of it. Have you heard anything about this? jeffery yes the gowanus has been reclaimed from neglect and pollution in recent years. the pumping tunnel that cleans the stagnant upper end of the canal was reactivated in 1999 and has vastly improved the water quality, although it still is very bad and the mechanisms are frought with problems as i understand it. the area is currently undergoing a lot of random redevelopment along it's route. high on my list to do a thread on someday! more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowanus_Canal
September 27, 201113 yr The Low-Line: An Underground Park For New York City’s Lower East Side New York City's High Line - the now famous abandoned train-track-turned-park - has become well known around the world as a spectacular example of urban revitalization through smart design, even inspiring copycat elevated parks. Now Manhattan is considering another abandoned train track park renovation project called "The Low Line" - this time in the Lower East Side neighborhood. The catch with this new proposal is that the abandoned train station in question is entirely underground (below Delancey Street) - a subterranean challenge which would require a high-tech, innovative approach to lighting in order to facilitate plant growth and human comfort. Before After Full article below: http://inhabitat.com/nyc/the-low-line-a-spectacular-two-acre-underground-park-to-be-constructed-in-nycs-lower-east-side/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
November 18, 201113 yr Author well if they can do it over a railyard they could do someplace closer to home, too...like say cle's warehouse district parking lots! btw these arent funded yet. Ratner unveils rendering of Atlantic Yards residential towers By AMEBR SUTHERLAND, RICH CALDER and CATHY BURKE Last Updated: 2:53 PM, November 17, 2011 It’s fab ... pre-fab that is. A rendering of the first of three Atlantic Yards residential towers was unveiled this morning -- a honeycomb-looking behemoth that would be the world’s largest pre-fabricated “modular “ building . Developer Bruce Ratner showed off the quirky overview of the project that he wants to build next to his Barclays Center arena at the corner of Dean Street and Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn. Ratner said if financing is secured -- it has not been so far -- groundbreaking for the first tower could start next spring, and be comprised of 350 units. The building — at 32-stories high, the largest in the project -- is intended to go up like a huge Lego project , floor-by-floor, with each floor comprised of “pods” that will be built off site and then lifted in place and bolted together. The first building is planned to be 130 studios, 180 one-bedrooms and 40 two-bedroom units. It’ll feature a 24-hour doorman, fitness center, bicycle storage, resident lounge and roof terrace, and washer and drier in every unit. If the entire project of 16 towers is completed it will offer 6,430 units of housing. The residences are envisioned to be a Lego’s-throw away from Barclays Center, the new arena of the Nets basketball team scheduled to open next September. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/ratner_unveils_rendering_of_atlantic_rXHJ0X9V1lHgY5hw6kDsOM#ixzz1e3K07aG6
November 30, 201113 yr Author no $ for this, but...mta video! Video: Inside The "Low Line" Trolley Terminal Beneath The LES Remember The Low Line, the out-of-left-field underground park some guys are proposing be put in the abandoned trolley terminal beneath Delancey Street? Well, it is still being talked about! But parks don't generally produce money (quite the opposite) and the MTA, which owns the terminal, can really use some extra dough. So its actively seeking any ideas that anyone might have for the suddenly hot spot beneath the LES. So they went and made a real estate porno: http://gothamist.com/2011/11/29/video_inside_the_low_line_trolly_te.php After all those pictures of the space, there is something fascinating about watching a legal video shot down there (as opposed to an illegal one nearby). Plus, MTA Real Estate guy and narrator Peter Hine seems really eager for something to happen down there. Even if it is just a fancy restaurant with views of the trains. Also, love how he just kind of glosses over the unending SPURA development process above the terminal. Still, what this video really does for us is hammer home the fact that this space really must be made into something. Preferably soon! [Via Curbed] *** this project reminded someone of brookpark -- a somewhat similar older project/idea in the bronx that would revive an abandoned partially underground rail trail: Though the NY Times claims no one knows who owns it, our research shows that theNew York Central Lines, LLC (NYC) and CSX Transportation, Inc. (CSXT) are responsible. In 2003 they filed a notice of exemption pursuant to the National Transportation Board’s regulations of exemption for abandonment and discontinuance of service, respectively, of the "Lowline" of railroad between Melrose and the southernmost edge of the tunnel at Southern Boulevard in Bronx County, New York, a distance of approximately 1.5 miles. NYC sought authority to abandon the line. CSXT seeks authority to discontinue service on the line. A map depicting the rail line in relationship to the area served are posted with this blog. The exemption became effective, the railroad worked to to salvage track, ties and other railroad appurtenances, and to dispose of the right-of-way. This is where community groups come in to create a rails to trails project! Let's do it! more: http://friendsofbrookpark.blogspot.com/2009/12/lowline-in-ny-times.html#links from the nytimes: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/mott-haven-swamp-was-deeper-than-thought/
January 1, 201213 yr Author another one from the seaport - just looking really amazing in the sunshine:
February 6, 201213 yr What a complete A$$! E. Village outrage at Schwimmer’s home raze By JENNIFER GOULD KEIL Last Updated: 6:10 AM, February 6, 2012 Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/no_friend_to_nabe_AtGKjJxuP3Pwr0qmvg7aiI#ixzz1ldSCUaK1 David Schwimmer isn’t making any friends in the East Village — and he hasn’t even moved in to the ’hood yet. The former “Friends” star bought a beautiful East Village townhouse built in 1852 — and then promptly destroyed it just months after the city told him it was destined for landmark status. The townhouse, at 331 E. 6th St., was one of the oldest on the block, and sat just two doors down from the Community Synagogue, a National Historic landmark. Schwimmer, 45, snapped up the property for $4.1 million in 2010 — and the city Landmarks Preservation Commission send him notices on March 31 and May 27 of last year that it could get landmark status by the end of 2012, said commission spokeswoman Elisabeth de Bourbon. But by September 2011, the building was gone, just four months after the city’s latest letter was sent to Schwimmer’s representatives. Now the five-story building will be replaced by a six-story mansion with an elevator and roof terrace, records filed with the city show. The building’s original listing said the 25-foot-wide townhouse had the zoning permits to grow from its current 7,750 square feet to 9,000 square feet. It added, “Please note, this lovely home needs work!” Neighbors are furious at the actor, saying he’s just another greedy celebrity wrecking the character of the neighborhood in order to build a modern monstrosity. http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
February 8, 201213 yr Author woah you pulled this thread back from the dead! i forgot about it. yeah what a dipshit tearing down a beutiful old townhouse like that. d-list hollywood idiot. *** heres a big new hitter & i guess the luxury market is doing well: Out of sight The high-end market headed higher in 2011 By MAX GROSS Last Updated: 9:28 AM, December 8, 2011 Posted: 6:06 PM, December 7, 2011 Extell Development’s newest building, ONE57, isn’t slated to be ready for occupancy until summer 2013 — but as far as NYC real estate is concerned, it might be the biggest story of 2011. And 2012. The building will be mammoth — 90 stories. Its 95 condos sit atop a plush, 210-room Park Hyatt hotel. And ONE57 has been aggressive with prices. “Units start at $6.375 million,” says Tony Mannarino, executive vice president at Extell, “and go up to $98.5 million.” Yes, penthouses for almost $100 million. One-bedrooms for $7 million... ...“There were 91 sales over $10 million [in 2011 throughout Manhattan],” says Pam Liebman, president and CEO of the Corcoran Group. “Twenty were over $20 million!”... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/realestate/residential/out_of_sight_7fnailbcTSPec5OdJaCgoO ONE57 won’t be ready until 2013, but the 90-story hotel and condo is already inking sales and offering a $98.5M unit.
March 15, 201213 yr Author lowline supporters met their first fundraising goal through the use of kickstarter and social media: http://www.thevillager.com/?p=2716
March 16, 201213 yr here in Cleveland would be interesting to explore a similar use for the sublevel below Detroit/Superior
December 31, 201212 yr Author Lowline Creators Think Underground Park Could Boost SPURA Wednesday, December 26, 2012, by Jessica Daile Development proposals for SPURA are due in January, and the Lowline creators are hoping that the project will bring more momentum to their underground park. The Journal reports that Dan Barasch and James Ramsey have, finally, prepared more financial information about the Lowline, and they believe that the futuristic green space could really boost SPURA's real estate values. By their calculations, the park could increase the land values of some SPURA sites by as much as $10 to $20 million and "create between $5 million and $10 million in sales, hotel and real-estate taxes over 30 years based on a net-present-value basis." HR&A Advisors consultants worked with Ramsey and Barasch to create the financial summary, which also says that the Lowline could cost between $44 and $72 million (significantly less than the High Line cost). The creators seek to raise $55 million, in addition to between $7 and $14 million in tax credits from the city. The park would need an operating budget of $2 to $4 million, and the summary says that the park hopes to be self-sufficient, earning revenue through events like festivals and public art performances. But the MTA says the underground terminal has "serious operational constraints," so the Lowline may not even happen. · Neighborhood Boost Seen From the Lowline [WSJ] · Lowline coverage [Curbed] more: http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/12/26/lowline_creators_think_underground_park_could_boost_spura.php
January 23, 201312 yr Author more bloggery low line: The Lowline Will Be A "Culture Park" Not Just A Subterranean Playground The Lowline's proof-of-concept for its fiber-opitc light sources from last year (Garth Johnston / Gothamist). Ever since the idea was first introduced a little more than a year ago, we've been quite interested in the idea of the Lowline, an underground park intended for an old trolley terminal beneath Delancey Street. We've looked at the space now, gone over the basic logistics, followed its fundraising and even checked out a proof-of-concept built nearby. And yet there are still so many questions! Now we can cross a few more off our list. Curbed's Jessica Dalley chatted up the project's top dogs Dan Barasch and James Ramsey recently and came back with some interesting things to keep in mind about the still-gestating project: ■It is only half park "It would be a culture park that hosts art shows, performances, and events, and it would be tied to the neighborhood gallery scene. There would be a densely planted 'ramble,' but this would be accompanied by a gallery, plaza, and connecting grassy common." ■This will take a while Because the land is owned by the MTA, which has bigger fish to fry, getting a park going is slow. And while lots of people seem eager to give it money, they aren't exactly throwing cash at it until the land is transferred. ■SPURA should spur it along Because the Lowline is located directly within the long-gestating Seward Park Urban Renewal Area it is expected to greatly increase the property values there. So expect the up-to-$72 million (in mostly private funding) park to open about when the buildings in that project (which appears to finally be starting to move) open. They guess the whole project should take about ten years to complete. ■The subway will be a crucial part Y'know how the J/Z goes right by the rail yards in question? "The park's design would incorporate a demising wall or transparent material as a border, providing protection and noise and air quality while framing views of the subway." Still, can't wait for the next big thing in parkland to open? Well, while you wait you can always go and buy yourself some cool Lowline gear so that your friends know that you are on the cutting edge of subterranean landscaping! http://gothamist.com/2013/01/23/the_lowline_will_be_a_culture_park.php
February 15, 201312 yr Author a hopefully pretty cool hotel tower for brooklyn unveiled today, spinoff from barclays and general downtown brooklyn redevelopment: HOME > NEWS > NYC LOCAL > BROOKLYN Hotel for BAM and Barclays By RICH CALDER Last Updated: 6:15 AM, February 15, 2013 ...The hotel is being designed by Thomas Leeser, who has received rave reviews for projects including the London 2012 Olympic Park and Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, Queens... more: http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/hotel_for_bam_and_barclays_TdNAFOdxa1YVQTBLF0tBPP
July 11, 201311 yr Author Building-trades suit over prefab B’klyn tower By JULIA MARSH Last Updated: 4:46 AM, July 11, 2013 Two trade groups have sued the city to block the construction in Downtown Brooklyn of the world’s largest modular housing tower. According to court papers, the groups claim that officials allowed Atlantic Yards developer Forest City Ratner to bypass crucial building-safety codes. http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/building_trades_suit_over_prefab_gRyzzdDbkdg6EEnHdP9vwK
August 15, 201311 yr Author they closed our hospital, tore it down and now are putting up condo apts in its place. the project includes a bunch of facade saves:
August 16, 201311 yr Author 400ft? where did you get that? they are preserving the old facades and tore down the hideous 1980s addition. the saves include a corner on 7th ave, a long wall on w11st and an odd section on w12st you can see on the far right of the photo. its supposed to be several individual bldgs. http://www.thegreenwichlane.com/#home
October 26, 201311 yr Author ^ a model and more about this large former village hospital turned apt bldg complex in the times today: where st. vincent's one stood http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/realestate/where-st-vincents-once-stood.html?hp
October 27, 201311 yr Author so it appears forest city ratner recently sold out 70% of atlantic yards to greenland holdings, a shanghai development group, although they will still maintain control over the project. presumably greenland paid fcr well for it and will be able to build it out cheaper: http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304520704579127822887005590?mg=reno64-wsj now if fcr would only sell off scranton peninsula to greenland too, so that could get developed...! :whip: edit final renders:
October 27, 201311 yr Imagine if the market in Cleveland were able to support such a project. Scranton peninsula could be a city within a city. Although, if we were at the point where we could support that, we would be paying 25 bucks for a corned beef sandwich....
October 28, 201311 yr Author china is encouraging investment abroad to diversify their businesses during their current economic slowdown, so now is the time to pitch to these chinese developers like greenland. they could certainly make scranton redevelopment happen, too.
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